Exaltation and Isaiah 66: 1-2


Seek
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Greetings everyone, and peace be with you.

I am considering becoming a member of the Church, as I like many of the teachings.  However, when it comes to the nature of God and exaltation, it is one teaching I cannot accept — not because I am not open to the idea, but because I feel there is no sound case for it; Isaiah 66, verses 1 & 2 come to mind.  Isaiah seems to make clear that God is spirit, and that a particular man shall one day embody that spirit — the Christ.  Notice that God poses the question, "Where is the place of my rest?"

I would be grateful for your thoughts on this.


New American Bible, Revised Edition

    Thus says the Lord:
The heavens are my throne,
    the earth, my footstool.
What house can you build for me?
    Where is the place of my rest?

My hand made all these things
    when all of them came to be—oracle of the Lord.
This is the one whom I approve:
    the afflicted one, crushed in spirit,
    who trembles at my word.


King James Version

Thus saith the Lord, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest?

For all those things hath mine hand made, and all those things have been, saith the Lord: but to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word.


Young's Literal Translation

Thus said Jehovah: The heavens [are] My throne, And the earth My footstool, Where [is] this — the house that ye build for Me? And where [is] this — the place — My rest?

And all these My hand hath made, And all these things are, An affirmation of Jehovah! And unto this one I look attentively, Unto the humble and bruised in spirit, And who is trembling at My word.

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46 minutes ago, Seek said:

Greetings everyone, and peace be with you.

I am considering becoming a member of the Church, as I like many of the teachings.  However, when it comes to the nature of God and exaltation, it is one teaching I cannot accept — not because I am not open to the idea, but because I feel there is no sound case for it; Isaiah 66, verses 1 & 2 come to mind.  Isaiah seems to make clear that God is spirit, and that a particular man shall one day embody that spirit — the Christ.  Notice that God poses the question, "Where is the place of my rest?"

I would be grateful for your thoughts on this.


New American Bible, Revised Edition

    Thus says the Lord:
The heavens are my throne,
    the earth, my footstool.
What house can you build for me?
    Where is the place of my rest?

My hand made all these things
    when all of them came to be—oracle of the Lord.
This is the one whom I approve:
    the afflicted one, crushed in spirit,
    who trembles at my word.


King James Version

Thus saith the Lord, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest?

For all those things hath mine hand made, and all those things have been, saith the Lord: but to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word.


Young's Literal Translation

Thus said Jehovah: The heavens [are] My throne, And the earth My footstool, Where [is] this — the house that ye build for Me? And where [is] this — the place — My rest?

And all these My hand hath made, And all these things are, An affirmation of Jehovah! And unto this one I look attentively, Unto the humble and bruised in spirit, And who is trembling at My word.

I'm struggling to see how these 2 verses show:

  1. God is spirit
  2. God will be embodied as Christ

And that having established these 2 points, therefore:

  1. Mormons don't have a proper understanding of the nature of God
  2. Mormons don't have a proper understanding of exaltation

Would you care to clarify?

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1 hour ago, Seek said:

Greetings everyone, and peace be with you.

I am considering becoming a member of the Church, as I like many of the teachings.  However, when it comes to the nature of God and exaltation, it is one teaching I cannot accept — not because I am not open to the idea, but because I feel there is no sound case for it; Isaiah 66, verses 1 & 2 come to mind.  Isaiah seems to make clear that God is spirit, and that a particular man shall one day embody that spirit — the Christ.  Notice that God poses the question, "Where is the place of my rest?"

I would be grateful for your thoughts on this.

Hi @Seek  and welcome to the forum!  More importantly, welcome to checking out Christ's Church!

I'm admittedly a little confused by your question, so I'm going to try to answer it the best I can and apologize if I answers all the questions you didn't ask.

The speaker of this chapter is Christ (the Lord).  At the time of this passage, He did not yet have a body (He wouldn't be physically born till later).  So you are correct at that time.  Once He was born of Mary and later resurrected, He very much had/has a body.   The phrase "contrite spirit" isn't talking about the nature of God, rather us having an attitude of meekness, something Christ is always encouraging/giving us.  Christ doesn't have a place to rest during His Earthly ministry, as Luke 9:58 states.  Christ is always working towards our salvation, without rest, without comforts.  

When it comes to better understanding exhilaration, I recommend this essay: https://www.lds.org/topics/becoming-like-god?lang=eng&old=true

Edited by Jane_Doe
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@Seek

The best and only example of G-d is Jesus Christ.  The example Jesus presents of G-d is that resurrection is both g-dly and divine.  As we are told in Acts – the resurrected Christ is flesh and bone (physical) and not just a spirit. 

Is the concept of a resurrected Christ, as the example of G-d, a difficult doctrine and concept for a Christian?

 

The Traveler

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I'm not convinced that Isaiah 66:1-2 is talking about Jesus individually--at least, not in the way you suggest.  The core theme of vv 1-5 is that a) God, being master of all creation, is far more powerful than puny mortals who lack even the means to build Him a suitable house; and b) those who stayed loyal to Him will ultimately be vindicated while those who rejected Him will be ashamed.  The humble and bruised one in verse 2, I think, is a generic faithful-yet-persecuted follower of God; not Jesus specifically (except insofar that He is the ultimate example of a faithful, suffering servant).  

I don't see, in these verses, any suggestion that God must be disembodied by nature.

Edited by Just_A_Guy
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18 hours ago, Seek said:

Greetings everyone, and peace be with you.

I am considering becoming a member of the Church, as I like many of the teachings.  However, when it comes to the nature of God and exaltation, it is one teaching I cannot accept — not because I am not open to the idea, but because I feel there is no sound case for it; Isaiah 66, verses 1 & 2 come to mind.  Isaiah seems to make clear that God is spirit, and that a particular man shall one day embody that spirit — the Christ.  Notice that God poses the question, "Where is the place of my rest?"

I would be grateful for your thoughts on this.

 

"Spirit" has many meanings as do many words in the scriptures. Things that are spiritual are eternal and things that are temporal are temporary. We have two components in this life, one that is temporal - the physical body and one that is eternal - the spiritual body (our spirit).  When we resurrect we will not be dual natured but joined as one eternal being, the body being made into an eternal physical body and therefore could be called "spirit".  When we are dual natured we do not rest, there is internal strife.  When we are made one in resurrection there is rest from that battle. We are all supposed to take on the body of Christ, we covenant to do so in the Sacrament.  Christ invites us to come unto His rest, to be worthy or Celestial resurrection. When Christ returns all will see that it is possible to be Eternal and physical at the same time.

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God is indeed Spirit. Our scriptures indicate such as well. But that is not the same thing as being a spirit. Man is also Spirit. 

Quote

D&C 93:30 All truth is independent in that sphere in which God has placed it, to act for itself, as all intelligence also; otherwise there is no existence.

 31 Behold, here is the agency of man, and here is the condemnation of man; because that which was from the beginning is plainly manifest unto them, and they receive not the light.

 32 And every man whose spirit receiveth not the light is under condemnation.

 33 For man is spirit. The elements are eternal, and spirit and element, inseparably connected, receive a fulness of joy;

 34 And when separated, man cannot receive a fulness of joy.

 35 The elements are the tabernacle of God; yea, man is the tabernacle of God, even temples; and whatsoever temple is defiled, God shall destroy that temple.

Furthermore, Joseph Smith taught in the Lectures on Faith the following about the attributes of God:

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Lecture Fifth:

1 In our former lectures we treated of the being, character, perfections and attributes of God. What we mean by perfections, is, the perfections which belong to all the attributes of his nature. We shall, in this lecture speak of the Godhead: we mean the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

2 There are two personages who constitute the great, matchless, governing and supreme power over all things—by whom all things were created and made, that are created and made, whether visible or invisible: whether in heaven, on earth, or in the earth, under the earth, or throughout the immensity of space—They are the Father and the Son: The Father being a personage of spirit, glory and power: possessing all perfection and fulness: The Son, who was in the bosom of the Father, a personage of tabernacle, made, or fashioned like unto man, or being in the form and likeness of man, or, rather, man was formed after his likeness, and in his image;—he is also the express image and likeness of the personage of the Father: possessing all the fulness of the Father, or, the same fulness with the Father; being begotten of him, and was ordained from before the foundation of the world to be a propitiation for the sins of all those who should believe on his name, and is called the Son because of the flesh—and descended in suffering below that which man can suffer, or, in other words, suffered greater sufferings, and was exposed to more powerful contradictions than any man can be. But notwithstanding all this, he kept the law of God, and remained without sin: Showing thereby that it is in the power of man to keep the law and remain also without sin. And also, that by him a righteous judgment might come upon all flesh, and that all who walk not in the law of God, may justly be condemned by the law, and have no excuse for their sins. And he being the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth, and having overcome, received a fulness of the glory of the Father—possessing the same mind with the Father, which mind is the Holy Spirit, that bears record of the Father and the Son, and these three are one, or in other words, these three constitute the great, matchless, governing and supreme power over all things: by whom all things were created and made, that were created and made: and these three constitute the Godhead, and are one: The Father and the Son possessing the same mind, the same wisdom, glory, power and fulness: Filling all in all—the Son being filled with the fulness of the Mind, glory and power, or, in other words, the Spirit, glory and power of the Father—possessing all knowledge and glory, and the same kingdom: sitting at the right hand of power, in the express image and likeness of the Father—a Mediator for man—being filled with the fulness of the Mind of the Father, or, in other words, the Spirit of the Father: which Spirit is shed forth upon all who believe on his name and keep his commandments: and all those who keep his commandments shall grow up from grace to grace, and become heirs of the heavenly kingdom, and joint heirs with Jesus Christ; possessing the same mind, being transformed into the same image or likeness, even the express image of him who fills all in all: being filled with the fulness of his glory, and become one in him, even as the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are one.

Before we came to the earth, each of us was (and is) Spirit. We came to the earth and took upon ourselves tabernacles of clay, made of the dust of the earth. Or at least Adam was and so we all are. Likewise, Jehovah condescended to take upon Himself flesh becoming a "Son," though returning to heaven a "Father," still Spirit, but also clothed in glory and power, having overcome all enemies, including death, thus possessing all perfection and fullness. We, however, do not possess such glory or power or fullness. There are also those not yet born into the world who are spirits, but also Spirit. Context matters in these things, but as mentioned in the above post, spirit has various meanings, for example:

Quote

D&C 130:22 The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s; the Son also; but the Holy Ghost has not a body of flesh and bones, but is a personage of Spirit. Were it not so, the Holy Ghost could not dwell in us.

 

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  • 1 month later...
On 3/9/2017 at 4:32 PM, Seek said:

Greetings everyone, and peace be with you.

I am considering becoming a member of the Church, as I like many of the teachings.  However, when it comes to the nature of God and exaltation, it is one teaching I cannot accept — not because I am not open to the idea, but because I feel there is no sound case for it; Isaiah 66, verses 1 & 2 come to mind.  Isaiah seems to make clear that God is spirit, and that a particular man shall one day embody that spirit — the Christ.  Notice that God poses the question, "Where is the place of my rest?"

I would be grateful for your thoughts on this.

I would have a conversation with the missionaries about the Biblical verses that speak to God having a physical body in addition to being a Spirit. These are not contradictions but different yet complimentary truths. Also, Joseph Smith saw the Father and the Son as physical beings.

 

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