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2 minutes ago, Jsmith85 said:

From what I understand the baptisms at the temple are done for those who died without being baptised. I belive all living baptisms are done at the local stake center.

As for seeing the inside of the temple - when new temples are built and I believe rededicated they have an open house that the public can go to (including non members) there is a local temple opening near me in August so the temple has been a major talking point in my ward. - Perhaps you can see if there is one coming near you or being rededicated. 

Sorry, I'm confused. Do you mean church members who aren't yet baptized and pass away get baptized in the temple? Even after their passing? 

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5 minutes ago, Smallfootsteps said:

Sorry, I'm confused. Do you mean church members who aren't yet baptized and pass away get baptized in the temple? Even after their passing? 

Oh my gosh I just looked it up!!!!! I'm shocked! 

 

why didn't anybody tell me about this before I got baptized? 

What else is there that the church doesn't tell new people :(

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3 hours ago, Smallfootsteps said:

Oh my gosh I just looked it up!!!!! I'm shocked! 

 

why didn't anybody tell me about this before I got baptized? 

What else is there that the church doesn't tell new people :(

@Smallfootsteps, can you please stop using the internet to look things up about the gospel when you have a wonderful set of people here who are members who can answer your questions AND there is a wonderful and VALID website (lds.org) that can answer all of your questions? 

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15 minutes ago, BeccaKirstyn said:

@Smallfootsteps, can you please stop using the internet to look things up about the gospel when you have a wonderful set of people here who are members who can answer your questions AND there is a wonderful and VALID website (lds.org) that can answer all of your questions? 

Maybe LDS.org is where she found info about proxy work.

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1 hour ago, zil said:

Maybe LDS.org is where she found info about proxy work.

The way she said "what else is there that the church doesn't tell people" makes it seem like she looked up baptisms for the dead just on google and found some false statement that we baptize dead bodies. The typical rumor people hear about baptisms for the dead. 

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5 hours ago, Smallfootsteps said:

Oh my gosh I just looked it up!!!!! I'm shocked! 

 

why didn't anybody tell me about this before I got baptized? 

What else is there that the church doesn't tell new people :(

@Smallfootsteps, can you tell me what it is you found shocking about this practice? Is it that it is unexpected? That it seems "weird"? That you haven't heard of anything like this before? That it sounds morbid? What is it that shocks you?

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Guest MormonGator
3 hours ago, Vort said:

@Smallfootsteps, can you tell me what it is you found shocking about this practice? Is it that it is unexpected? That it seems "weird"? That you haven't heard of anything like this before? That it sounds morbid? What is it that shocks you?

Obviously I speak only for Gator, but I did find some stuff weird at first as I progressed to my endowment. When I had it explained to me or did the research myself (studying the prophets/apostles words) it made sense. I think maybe one or two members were "offended" or "insulted" when I asked questions but for the most part they didn't take it personal or get offended. 

@Smallfootsteps-I can't stress this enough: ask questions. If you can't find a trusted person in your ward, 99% of the people on this website are fantastic (Except for this dude named @Vort). Even people I may not like or agree with are probably wonderful people who seriously want to help you. Don't be shy, ask via private message if you need too. Things become very clear when you have them explained.

Edited by MormonGator
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2 minutes ago, Vort said:

Looking at my avatar, she'll wonder who you're calling "dude".

lol. That's awesome. Very true! 

And for the record, I do have huge respect for Vort, just some playful razzing. 

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9 hours ago, Smallfootsteps said:

I didn't know about this. Thank you for telling me. And I'm wondering why no-one offered to do my baptism at the temple? Mine was just in the local ward chapel. It would have been great to have had it in the temple then at least I would get to see the inside of it. Do I have to know the people getting baptized in the temple or can anyone attend? Cannot believe I've been a member for so many months and no-one at my ward is telling me these things!! 

The LDS church has a belief about those who pass away.  They believe that all men, no matter what religion, creed, or thought may have the opportunity to be saved in the Kingdom of Heaven.  They believe that after they have died, that if they so choose, they may elect to accept the Lord in the life after this one.  They will then be judged as per their choices and thoughts in this life and receive the appropriate award.  This award varies from individual to individual depending on what the Lord saw in their hearts during this life, and how repentant or non-repentant they were, and other actions of theirs.

This has the conundrum, however.  The New Testament has the Lord's command that one must be baptized.  How then, can they be baptized once they are dead?

The LDS believe that those who are living can perform a proxy baptism. 

A good explanation is to look at what the Lord did for us.  We have all sinned and need to pay for those sins.  That would send us to hell for basically...all eternity...at least from what I understand.  So it needed an innocent being to take those sins and be a proxy for us.  Being innocent meant that this being (the Lord) could overcome this extreme and eternal justice, and thus save us from our sins.  He stood in for us and took upon him OUR sins.

Now, we cannot do that.  We are not perfect, and we cannot take upon ourselves someone else's sins.  We are merely those who worship the Lord and are his disciples.

What we can do is to try to follow his example and help those who are in a situation that they need our help when they cannot do certain things themselves.  We can act as proxies, or stand in for them when they cannot.  This means that we are baptized in their stead in temples.  Because this is something that we ourselves cannot do, and it is far than mundane, it is something only done in a holy place to the Lord where his spirit and power is.  This is the Temple.

In the Temple, we have the opportunity to do those ordinances (things like Baptism or marriage) that the New Testament requires to be done on this Earth for those who have died. 

There are a HUGE number of people that have died, and many have died without even the opportunity to hear the gospel or accept it.  This is obviously a huge amount of work to be done on others behalf. 

These are the Baptisms that people are talking about.  In this, you are choosing to serve others because you wish to help have those ordinances performed for those who are already spirits and thus cannot have them done in the physical form themselves.

You would need to discuss with the Bishop about getting a temple recommend to do Baptisms for the Dead.  If you get this, you then may have the opportunity to go to the temple.  As you have been baptized yourself, you could perform this ordinance as one being baptized for the dead.  You can also get the ordinance where you would receive the Holy Ghost (most new members also have this ordinance, and so this is another one that they can perform in the Temple).

Is it odd, to some, perhaps.  It can take some thinking about.  The ordinances that you could perform in the Temple in this instance are not that odd in and of themselves.  They are the ones that you have already done yourself.  As you have been baptized and received the gift of the Holy Ghost, these are the same ordinances that you would do in the Temple, on behalf of another.  It is done the exact same way, but in what the Mormons feel is a very holy edifice of the Lord's (or what we call the House of the Lord).

Edited by JohnsonJones
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4 hours ago, BeccaKirstyn said:

The way she said "what else is there that the church doesn't tell people" makes it seem like she looked up baptisms for the dead just on google and found some false statement that we baptize dead bodies. The typical rumor people hear about baptisms for the dead. 

I know you don't baptize dead bodies

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4 hours ago, BeccaKirstyn said:

The way she said "what else is there that the church doesn't tell people" makes it seem like she looked up baptisms for the dead just on google and found some false statement that we baptize dead bodies. The typical rumor people hear about baptisms for the dead. 

Maybe if the church actually told new people about this sort of thing they wouldn't have to go wandering around online in the first place :/

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13 minutes ago, Smallfootsteps said:

Maybe if the church actually told new people about this sort of thing they wouldn't have to go wandering around online in the first place :/

So it's shocking because you expected to be told abut this in your lessons. Not every missionary pair is perfect. They are human beings who make mistakes. I don't believe being told about baptisms for the dead is a requirement in the first lessons an investigator takes, but I could be completely wrong because I don't have a lot of knowledge on that topic. But that is something that isn't talked about first because it doesn't pertain to the reason for YOU to join the church. You cannot perform those ordinances for people until you become a member yourself. So the missionaries focus on teaching you about the plan of salvation, Joseph Smith, the restoration of the gospel, etc. 

I hope you can take my advice, and others, to pray about the things that are causing you distress about the church and then go talk to your bishop or someone you trust who can guide you to what you need to do. While we can answer all the questions you can ask, only you can decide if you want to find your place in the gospel. That will take time and effort on your part. 

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I don't think it's unreasonable for people to want to know everything about something before they jump into it.

This particular subject is covered in the missionary Lessons on lesson 5 (which I believe the missionaries should be giving to New Members, however I know that many times these discussions are never given by Missionaries, Ward Missionaries, or Stake Missionaries, which is unfortunate), or at least they used to.  I believe MIssionaries still teach out of "Preach My Gospel." which standardizes what missionaries do or do not cover or teach typically.

This lesson is found here  Preach My gospel: Lesson 5

I know if I were an investigator, I would want to know all the lessons and all I could about the church.  Wanting to know about things before joining an organization is to be expected.  I think the more people know before they join something, and the more informed they are, that when they do choose to join they are much stronger members for that very fact...there are no hidden surprises that suddenly come out to bite them.

I am not everyone though.  I prefer a more open discourse on subjects, or as open as I can be.  Not everyone feels that way and I understand that, but personally, I'm one that wants to find out everything I can before buying something so I can make an informed decision.

 

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34 minutes ago, JohnsonJones said:

I don't think it's unreasonable for people to want to know everything about something before they jump into it.

This particular subject is covered in the missionary Lessons on lesson 5 (which I believe the missionaries should be giving to New Members, however I know that many times these discussions are never given by Missionaries, Ward Missionaries, or Stake Missionaries, which is unfortunate), or at least they used to.  I believe MIssionaries still teach out of "Preach My Gospel." which standardizes what missionaries do or do not cover or teach typically.

This lesson is found here  Preach My gospel: Lesson 5

I know if I were an investigator, I would want to know all the lessons and all I could about the church.  Wanting to know about things before joining an organization is to be expected.  I think the more people know before they join something, and the more informed they are, that when they do choose to join they are much stronger members for that very fact...there are no hidden surprises that suddenly come out to bite them.

I am not everyone though.  I prefer a more open discourse on subjects, or as open as I can be.  Not everyone feels that way and I understand that, but personally, I'm one that wants to find out everything I can before buying something so I can make an informed decision.

 

I agree. In @Smallfootsteps's scenario though, she didn't get that opportunity and I think the focus now needs to be on how she can best learn these things she wasn't taught and rely on the impression she originally had that the gospel was true and right for her. In my opinion, the worst thing she can do is to stop going to church and distance herself from the gospel. Keep going to church, keep asking questions (but to the right people), keep praying, start reading the scriptures. Then you can come to know more of the church and truly form your decision of if this church is right for you. At least that is how I think this is best handled. 

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3 hours ago, BeccaKirstyn said:

Why is it shocking? 

Just about all of it has shocked me and especially the fact that I had no clue about it. I had no idea such a practice even existed. I'm grateful for knowing about it now but completely confused as to why I wasn't told sooner, and why I had to find out here online instead of at the ward. To be honest now I feel more left out by them than ever before. 

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11 minutes ago, Smallfootsteps said:

Just about all of it has shocked me and especially the fact that I had no clue about it. I had no idea such a practice even existed. I'm grateful for knowing about it now but completely confused as to why I wasn't told sooner, and why I had to find out here online instead of at the ward. To be honest now I feel more left out by them than ever before. 

I'm sorry that you didn't know about this before your baptism. I expect there may be a lot more you don't know either. I really, really encourage you to contact your bishop and arrange for the new member discussions as well as home teachers and visiting teachers. It will be good for you to have the new member discussions (which are very similar to the missionary discussions) and have a way to ask someone in person about some of these things. Please remember that you will not know every thing about the church from the missionary discussions or even the new member discussions. The church encourages the members to learn on our own. 

One thing you can do is begin a study of the Preach My Gospel. Here is the link:  https://www.lds.org/manual/preach-my-gospel-a-guide-to-missionary-service?lang=eng  This is what the missionaries use to teach others. Members of the church use this as a study guide for studying the scriptures. This is a great place to see what was taught (or maybe not taught very well) by the missionaries. 

Another good resource is the Gospel Principles:  https://www.lds.org/manual/gospel-principles?lang=eng  This is a Sunday School class that can be called Gospel Essentials (I've heard both Gospel Principles and Gospel Essentials as the name of the Sunday School class). Notice that chapter 40 includes information about baptism for the dead. In fact, the more I think about it, I think this is a better place to start your study rather than the Preach My Gospel. 

There are a lot of resources for you to understand doctrines of the church and begin your study to gain a deeper conviction (testimony) of the truth of these things. I've studied these and through the years, the things that made no sense to me for a long time are now beginning to make some sense. I still feel like a 2 year old when it comes to spiritual things. But, I have faith that Jesus is real, this is His church and has His authority to do His work, and that the Book of Mormon is scripture. As I've focused on those things (which is the basis of my testimony), I've slowly learned more and more and feel more faith in things that I didn't think I had faith in.

Don't rush yourself. Take the baby steps, just make sure you are moving forward. It's not a race...just keep studying, praying, going to church and you'll learn and gain a testimony. Just remember that sometimes things that may seem shocking at first do have meaning and context. 

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Dear @Smallfootsteps

not to worry! You should have seen my face, when I found out about food storage...wheat! 

You will be fine. Take deep breaths. It's cool.

You have become a member in a disorganized part of God's vineyard. Not all parts of Zion are run effectively. Welcome to my world. The church is run by volunteers and sometimes the cracks show. Talk to the Bishop. Try to tag along on the next temple trip. I am sorry that things have been so disorganized. 

Some suggestions: Go to lds.org and search Ensign. I read a lot of back issues when I came back to the church. I was baptized as a teenager but I left after a couple of years. I returned after many years. I could really feel Heavenly Father reaching out to me.

i came back and had to learn a lot very quickly. I would go to sites like Ask Gramps and Mormon.org

Its going to be okay. It is not the case that the church is trying to hide anything from you. Somehow the elders who taught you didn't mention a few things. If it makes you feel any better, one set of elders that I had made up several commandments.

i think that regions of the church have always been disorganized. We are all volunteers. Just ask questions, we can explain things.

Look out for @Vort, @MormonGator, and @mirkwood. I think they're from another planet or something.

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22 minutes ago, Sunday21 said:

Dear @Smallfootsteps

not to worry! You should have seen my face, when I found out about food storage...wheat! 

You will be fine. Take deep breaths. It's cool.

You have become a member in a disorganized part of God's vineyard. Not all parts of Zion are run effectively. Welcome to my world. The church is run by volunteers and sometimes the cracks show. Talk to the Bishop. Try to tag along on the next temple trip. I am sorry that things have been so disorganized. 

Some suggestions: Go to lds.org and search Ensign. I read a lot of back issues when I came back to the church. I was baptized as a teenager but I left after a couple of years. I returned after many years. I could really feel Heavenly Father reaching out to me.

i came back and had to learn a lot very quickly. I would go to sites like Ask Gramps and Mormon.org

Its going to be okay. It is not the case that the church is trying to hide anything from you. Somehow the elders who taught you didn't mention a few things. If it makes you feel any better, one set of elders that I had made up several commandments.

i think that regions of the church have always been disorganized. We are all volunteers. Just ask questions, we can explain things.

Look out for @Vort, @MormonGator, and @mirkwood. I think they're from another planet or something.

Thanks. What's the deal with food storage? (Another thing I've never heard of) :(

Edited by Smallfootsteps
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3 minutes ago, Smallfootsteps said:

Thanks. What's the deal with food storage? (Another thing I've never heard of) :(

The church recommends that we store some food in case of personal crisis, illness, snowstorms, unemployment. I am not sure what the recommended amount of food storage is these days. Some people store a years supply, some a couple of months, some a few weeks. Anyway, buying an extra can or two might be an idea.

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5 hours ago, Sunday21 said:

The church recommends that we store some food in case of personal crisis, illness, snowstorms, unemployment. I am not sure what the recommended amount of food storage is these days. Some people store a years supply, some a couple of months, some a few weeks. Anyway, buying an extra can or two might be an idea.

Wouldn't it make more sense to save money instead? I live in a small place and we have no spare room to store food.  

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Food storage ideas have changed over the years.  It's more of an idea than something that one has to do in order to be found worthy, obedient, or any such thing like that.  The best equivalent I could tell you to look at it as, is advice or suggestions that may be a good idea for some but NOT necessarily for you (unless you feel it is relevant, currently).

The idea is that you have something to fall back on in case of emergency.  It used to be that the overwhelming idea was that one needed food, and so a years worth of food storage was suggested.

Now days, it actually encompasses more than food storage.  It can be a few weeks, it can be three months (the more typical suggested time amount these days) or it could be year of food.  The other side of it that some suggest, but some miss, is to have a rainy day fund.  This is because someone probably realized food alone is not going to get people through a tough time.  This can be an amount set aside so that if one needs money (lets say someone loses their job, having enough to pay 6 months rent can be a comfort in that situation), they have it available.

This is something that you can fall back on to keep yourself alive and living, while still self supportive, if one needs to be.

The biggest problem people have had in the past is that they get food storage, viewing it more as a commandment that they have to do.  Then, they never touch it again.  Imagine 30 year old wheat which has had weevils and other things in it.  Not a pretty picture.

I think food storage is good advice.  We cycle through the food storage, so we buy what we project we may need over the next while, and then eat it on a daily basis, replacing what we use.  This is the easiest way for ME to do food storage (as there are MANY different ways people do it, some still do that, buy a years worth of food and never touch it again).

I probably don't have a years worth of food for my family (though maybe more than a years worth if it were only me and my wife).  it is probably more like 3 to 6 months worth of food.  We have a LOT of canned stuff such as canned soups, vegetables and fruits.  Since we would use this anyways, having a little more in store is not that much of a problem.  We don't do wheat. 

Some people can do a ton of stuff with wheat, I cannot.  It takes other items that one needs to store with wheat if they are going to use it, such as yeast, sugar (unless you only want bread, and more bread, and more bread forever), salt, and other accessories.  I'm simple, so we do have a bunch of bags of rice that we keep and rice cookers.  This is sort of the biggest adaption we've made in keeping food storage, as we now eat rice (instead of crackers) with soups, and in place where crackers or bread may be used normally.  However, rice is easy to cook and easy to store.  I probably have about what we'd use in 8 months to a years worth of rice in our food storage pantry.

Now, some people take food storage very seriously, others do not.  It's not something that is specifically pushed in the LDS church, but is advised.  One could view it very similarly to other things which are occasionally advised, but it's not something that one needs or has to do.  In fact, I'd worry more on the commandments and other things at this point than trying to rush off and trying to do it all on someone's advice, unless you already feel this is a good idea.

Other things that are simply more of advice that I'd put with it are things like, don't spend more than you bring in each month, don't get into debt unless you have to or it is of significant worth (such as an education or buying a house or something like that).  These are things that leaders have mentioned about how to be better prepared to live our daily lives and face the different things that can happen to us in the world.  These are not things that affect your worthiness, how righteous you are, or anything like that.  They are words of advice that may or may not help people make decisions in their lives.  No Bishop (that I've ever heard of or know) is ever going to ask someone if they have food storage, or if they have gone into huge debt to buy the latest and greatest Iphone, or anything like that.

In a nutshell, that's what the entire food storage thing is about.  I'd say, don't stress it.  There are tons of LDS members that have NO food storage and no rainy day fund at all.  They are also great members.  Those that do have this and have had tough times often find it a great comfort and help.  However, there is nothing in the Bible or scriptures that say you have to do this, or this is something you need to do.  It can be VERY useful and can be something wise to invest in when one is ready, but I wouldn't go into debt (some people have, I would highly suggest against that) or do anything crazy in regards to food storage (or a rainy day fund).  Take it as it is, and definitely don't stress about something like this (and least my thoughts on the matter) any more than you would any other advice given to you (and advice can be good or bad, dependent on each individuals situation, what may be good for me, may not be good for you, and vice versa).

 

PS: I see you added the item about money.  Many miss that idea, and yes, a rainy day fund is part of the advice.  A small amount of money is one of the item suggested (and is something that is now also suggested in the financial community that people have enough saved up to cover 3-6 months of living expenses).  It is advice (or as one put it, a suggestion), but not one you necessarily have to do.  It depends on what you think is best for your situation and your own circumstances in life.

Edited by JohnsonJones
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