Johnson's miscellaneous thoughts on LDS culture, tradition and ideas thread


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The following is not my statement or post, but I found it so wonderful that I wanted to post it to my personal thread (which is in some ways also a thread of my ponderings on culture, tradition and other ideas related to the culture of members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints)

This is originally from @Vernor's Ginger Ale

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Political Power and Physical Nation:

The nation of Israel would never have been accepted by the world without the restoration. While the world points to the Balfour Declaration and to UN Resolution 181, as well as the events following it (like the US support) as the mechanism of the formation of the State of Israel, the Lord's time table is much longer.  As Latter-day Saints, we point to the Dedication of Palestine for the Return of the Jews.

The nation of Israel was not formed by man's hand, but by the Hand of God, through the power of the priesthood held by His appointed servants.  No man taketh this honor unto himself, but he who is called of God as was Aaron, by a living prophet of God like Moses.

Spiritual Gathering:

The spiritual gathering is about temple work and about family lines coming together.  While we have individuals from each of the houses of Israel, the gathering was to be en masse.  And for the smaller houses, even the establishment of the nation of Israel cannot really be thought of as fulfilling that.  So, this is at some future date.

What we do know is that the spiritual gathering is not merely gathering as a political nation, but as servants of the Lord Jesus Christ.  How many Jews in Israel can claim faith in Jesus as the Messiah?  Very few.

We in the Church have been primarily gathering those of the House of Ephraim.  When the reeds have formed a wall against the wind, the remaining houses will gather, not in the Old Jerusalem, but in the New Jerusalem established by His Church and Kingdom on earth.  And that ain't the UN.

I think this is a great post and of interest to me that I may want to do further study upon at a later date.

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Returning to a topic previously discussed in the thread, came upon an interesting item related to it.  Previously I stated...

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A prime example would be that Wilford Woodruff and others would say that temple ordinances could ONLY be done by one who held the higher Priesthood (the Melchizedek) only.  This was the doctrine (or what they would call doctrine, though I do not think we can actually find it anywhere in the scriptures).  The reasons was that while the Lower Priesthood dealt with earthly ordinances and our immediate ordinances for this earth, the Melchizedek Priesthood also covered ordinances that were for things beyond this earth and this life, which ALSO included that of the dead. 

I found there is even MORE to this, but that more sparks some interesting thoughts which I have not gotten all the way through.

So, originally, the lower priesthood was to be held by the Levites.  Only they could perform the ordinances thereof.  In this light, they were ALSO the only ones that could perform these ordinances in the temple.  At that time, we may also include the Baptisms for the Dead as it is somewhat referred to (or at least we believe this is what Paul is talking about when he talks about the Dead being baptized) in the Bible which would by, default, need to be done in the Temple when they had one.

However, as we do not have Levites generally today, we could not practice these ordinances...or could we?  We have the priesthood, but in general, most of the priesthood holders do not have the keys...or do they?

If one is a Levite, and especially a Son of Aaron, supposedly in some texts they automatically have the keys as their birthright and heritage.  They naturally, or their given rights as those of this genealogy have this power and ability.  We, or those of us who are not of this lineage do NOT have this right.  We may have the priesthood given to us, but it is not our natural heritage.

HOWEVER, ALL the rights and autorities of the Lower Priesthood are held and able to be performed by those who hold the Higher Priesthood as we see from Doctrine and Covenants 107:5-12

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5 All other authorities or offices in the church are appendages to this priesthood.

6 But there are two divisions or grand heads—one is the Melchizedek Priesthood, and the other is the Aaronic or Levitical Priesthood.

7 The office of an elder comes under the priesthood of Melchizedek.

8 The Melchizedek Priesthood holds the right of presidency, and has power and authority over all the offices in the church in all ages of the world, to administer in spiritual things.

9 The Presidency of the High Priesthood, after the order of Melchizedek, have a right to officiate in all the offices in the church.

10 High priests after the order of the Melchizedek Priesthood have a right to officiate in their own standing, under the direction of the presidency, in administering spiritual things, and also in the office of an elder, priest (of the Levitical order), teacher, deacon, and member.

11 An elder has a right to officiate in his stead when the high priest is not present.

12 The high priest and elder are to administer in spiritual things, agreeable to the covenants and commandments of the church; and they have a right to officiate in all these offices of the church when there are no higher authorities present.

Thus, why we can perform the ordinances only allowed by those of those who have the keys by heritage, is that these keys are also appendages to that of the greater priesthood, or that of the Melchizedek Priesthood.  Thus, this is also why it requires a Bishop to be the Key Holder of the Priesthood in a ward, as the keys are appendages of that priesthood.  One who is of the lower priesthood cannot rob the Levite of their blessing, nor can they rob Aaron, but as they are appendages of the Higher Priesthood, the Higher Priesthood already has those keys to be granted to them to utilize.

IN that same light, we come to Baptism for the Dead.  On this instance though who are the keys being granted to be exercised under.  Is it the Temple President, or is it the Bishop?

In that same right, as all other Priesthoods are appendages of the Melchizedek Priesthood, in theory, does that mean an Elder or High Priest could in essence already have those keys to the Aaronic and be able to perform ordinances such as sacrament and Baptism without the oversight of a Bishop?

Even if the answer to that question was yes, the answer is also no for one very valid reason.  The House of the Lord is one of order, and therefore, to keep order it must be done in a fashion where records (both in heaven and the earth) can be kept in order.  If one goes about Baptizing without the Bishop's oversight, who is there to know whether that baptism is valid and should be on the records of the church.  The same goes for an ordinance, and thus the Bishop is given the keys and authority to control these aspects of the church.

This seems especially pertinent in our day and time when many are contained within their households for the duration of the illnesses spreading throughout the world.  In this light, perhaps the Melchizedek Priesthood holder in theory may have the keys, but at the same time it must be balanced out with the Common Judge in Israel who holds the keys as delegated by the President of the Church (from the President to lower authorities till the Stake President, and then to the Bishop).

Ultimately though, it is the holder of all the Keys, the Prophet and President of the Church to delegate how these keys will be delegated and operated.

However, in their absence, it could be argued, at least for the lesser keys, that the Melchizedek holder MAY have them, or might.

In this way, we could understand that Alma the Elder actually had the keys for Baptism and could perform the ordinance on his own, even though he obviously did NOT have the approval of his superiors in the situation where he organized a church while in the society ruled by King Noah.

It brings to mind another interesting though I had and something I 've been pondering about.  What follows is more my line of thought rather than any doctrine or teaching.  It is me postulating upon what may be or may not be. 

It is assumed the Jesus was given authority by those who held authority in his day, but upon thinking upon it I think I differ.  He was NOT a levite and had no association to the Priest class of the day.  He was a carpenter and as such, would not have been granted that authority.  Thus, where did that authority come from.  He did not have the power to baptize perhaps, as if he had he could have done as Alma the Elder and baptized himself. 

However, we learn later he and his apostles DID have the power to baptize.  Where did this come from?  With the hostility of those in charge of the religion of the Jews in his time, I do not think it came from them.  It could have been given by John the Baptist, the rightful holder of the Priesthood at that time (and why the Lord went to him for Baptism).  I think though that his power came more directly, from his true Father.  His power and authority came directly from the source, as the only begotten son, I think he received the Highest powers and keys of the Priesthood from his Father (his real father, that in heaven).  Many of these could have come earlier, but I think many of these (for example, perhaps the keys of Sealing and any he may not have already received) I think he got on the Mount of Transfiguration.

Thus, he had MORE authority than any other figure on earth, even the keys to life, death, salvation, and more.  He had these not from a mortal figure or individual, but from the immortal Ruler who this power stems from, his immortal father of both his body and his spirit, or God the Father.  Thus, he had the power by Heritage, by Genealogy, and also by the hand of it being bestowed directly from the Grand Being who rules Heaven and the Earth giving it to him in person and anointing him personally both in the spirit before this life, and mortally while he was on the Earth.

Just some thoughts on the entire Priesthood and Keys while we've been at home and doing home sacrament meetings among our families or however else we have been granted the privilege of worshipping in these days of turmoil upon the earth.

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  • 1 month later...

Speculation time. 

I had this come to me today while pondering the eternities.  As this is NOT doctrine or anything like it, it IS just my speculation on the eternities and our decisions of such in the pre-existence.

I hold to the idea that what we experience in this life is a reflection of our choices in the pre-existence, or the previous one.  This does not necessarily mean the person born into poverty or disability or other limitations chose badly in the previous life, but these are reflections of the choices they made.  For example, perhaps the spirit had certain lessons and things they wanted to learn in mortality which they could not learn as a spirit.  They wanted to learn things which could only be learned by taking a form which had some sort of disability or other inhibition.  Or perhaps they wanted to help someone else come closer to the Lord, perhaps a parent, and if they had a disability it would stand the best chance to help that parent come to the Lord by dealing with a disabled child.  Or perhaps other various items that influenced our lot in this life.  At times it may have been chosen to help others more than we realize, and it was our own compassion and love that put us in these situations so that others could learn and grow from us.  In this, perhaps at times the teachers and the greater ones that actually lead us are not those we see as worldly leaders, but those that lead us to righteousness.  These may not be those we see in power over others, but they are leaders of a different sort.  They help teach.  Maybe it is the homeless individual who we pass by everyday who is trying to help us to become humble ourselves and to learn to love our fellowmen as ourselves that is the REAL leader in this life at times. 

Other times it could just be that they had other things that caused them to have their situation.  Perhaps they didn't care about having a life of wealth and saw that this was an opportunity to gain a body and did not care about anything else.  They desired a physical body, but were unconcerned (or maybe didn't even realize exactly what it was like here, as none of us except our Father had a physical body at that time) with other trials or tribulations that would come upon them.  As long as they attained that body, they had no other thoughts and the result is where they ended up in mortality. 

Others sought to have the gospel in their life either directly, or to be given the chance to obtain it. 

In otherwords, there were many different reasons that we may have the situations we were put in the position in life that we are.  It is but a mere instant compared to the eternities.  In comparison to our pre-mortal existence it is but a flash, and compared to the existence afterwards it is less than an instance in our progress.  Thus, to me, it seems that it is the fulfillment of choice (though we seem to be making all the choices here, I think many of the things that occur are things we already chose in the pre-existence.  For many, we already knew the outcome of our choices here).

In this, I thought about my parents and relatives.  For many of them they had the opportunity to accept the gospel in this life and it appears, blatantly rejected it.  In the light of that, how does that reflect for my life.  I know one friend that believed strongly in the church and was strongly influential in my own journey to join the church.  He had joined a few years before I did and then served greatly within the church.  He was a powerful member in the church with a strong testimony.  Then, after I joined, and after he had influenced me in my own journey, he left the church.  He went against many of the teachings.  He seemed to abandon and at points even turn strongly against the church.  It left me to wonder how he, who had such a great influence on me, had changed or turned that way...or if it was always there.

I was pondering on this today and a thought came (a speculation as you will). 

The result of where we end up is a reflection of our choices here, but our choices here are also a reflection of our choices in the pre-existence.  Thus, for many, we have already chosen where we are going to end up in the next life.  We chose to go to the Telestial Kingdom or the Terrestrial or the Celestial Kingdom.  We already made many of the choices that would lead us to one of the three degrees of glory.

More speculation, if, in case, he had actually chosen NOT to go to the Celestial Kingdom (and once again, this is not saying that is his fate, I do not know where he will end up, he could end up going to the Celestial Kingdom FAR before I am even close to getting there, it could be he is even more righteous, only the Lord knows a person's heart and is only the real and true judge who determines who receives exaltation and who does not).

My friend then, perhaps had no desire in the pre-existence to go to the Celestial Kingdom perhaps (or perhaps they will go there, it is left to the Lord to decide, and he is the ONLY judge of the matter in the end, but if not...then).  However, he had a great love for me in the pre-existence.  He agreed to help me obtain what I would want or where I would want to go, but he himself did not want to obtain the Celestial Glory, but a lesser glory.  This leads to a question...why would someone choose a glory other than the Celestial Kingdom while in the Pre-existence.  Would they not want to have that reward?

And then the answer struck me.  NO...they would not.

When we look at the various Degrees of glory, each has a greater deal of responsibility than the one under it.  For those in the Telestial Kingdom, one could assume (speculation) that it is similar to the garden of Eden.  There, we had no sin, but we also had no strife or hardship.  Fruit and plants grew and we were able to do as we wanted within the confines of the world.  In the Telestial Glory there is no marriage, but there is also no (speculation) sickness or harm.  There is no hunger or many of the other difficulties we have in this world.  It is, in itself, a perfect place in regards to how this world could be perfect.  It would be a place many would do everything they could to get there. 

In the Terrestrial world we know little of, but we know that those in the Terrestrial glory will be given to minister to those in the Telestial Kingdom.  They will have a bit of responsibility towards those in that arena.  It could be that those who chose to go to the Telestial world in the pre-existence did not want that responsibility. 

The Celestial Glory is even stronger in responsibility and one that perhaps is a greater choice. 

When we imagine heaven many imagine a place where the cares of this world are gone.  It is a place where evil cannot touch you and it cannot go.  It is a place where the struggles of this life are gone.

If you go to the Celestial Glory, this may not be so.  You not only have the responsibility of caring for those in the other lower degrees, but you also have the work to create worlds and to care for children and progeny.  As we teach in the Scriptures, there is opposition in all things.  Thus, as we have children, as our Father had children, invariably, they will eventually need to go out on their own. They will also need their free agency and choice.  In this, we also invariably will have the conflict of good and evil. 

Thus, even as we have the greater glory we will have to deal with all the grief and strife of this life again, but in a higher form as we see our own children struggle.  The conflict with darkness will be something we will continue to need to deal with as we work with our own spirit children and their struggles with it.  We will see them also deal with pain, illness and hurt.  It is said that it is harder to see your own children deal with harm than it is to deal with it yourself, but in the eternities we will see our children deal with it billions if not trillions of times more than we did ourselves.  I think we still will feel pain and anguish at what they go through and at times, their decisions.  We will still have the pain and anguish at times that we deal with in this life, but in regards to our eternal children rather than mortal children.  Instead of just seeing temporal results of their choices, we will need to deal with eternal consequences with impacts that last far longer than our mortal frames can comprehend in this life.

I think when many saw this, they felt that this was NOT something they wanted to do.  They didn't want that type of responsibility, nor did they want to have to continue to deal with those types of hardships eternally.  Thus, they chose in the pre-existence in many instances of whether to accept the gospel in this life, or whether to even get the opportunity.  Their exhibition at the choice of opportunity on where to go was well known to the Lord.  He knows those who really wanted the opportunity but would not get it, and knows our hearts and minds.  He can know those that wanted it in the pre-existence and those who would accept it with all their hearts if given the chance in this life.  I think there are many who CHOSE NOT to have the chance in this life because this was a reward they were not after.  They wanted one of the different degrees of glory, hard as that may be to understand by some members of the church.

The hardships and responsibility of the higher Kingdom or Kingdoms were ones that they decided they did not want in the next life, and so chose in a manner where they could accomplish what they wanted or desired in this life and attain the reward of which they are working for.

Of course, this IS speculation by me, but one that is rather interesting as I thought upon it today.

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  • 3 weeks later...

One of the conflicts between the Book of Mormon and that of Secular history is Isaiah.  With Isaiah there are two different ideas of when it was written. 

One is that it was all written by Isaiah, but at different points of his life.  This means that one part would have been written and known by Lehi and his family BEFORE they left Jerusalem, but there's an entirely different portion that supposedly Isaiah wrote AFTER they would have left Jerusalem (saying they left somewhere between the years of 602 - 597 BC).  The idea is that there were at least two different authors on this.  (I will also say there ARE those that say Isaiah was written by the same individual between 740 and 687 BC...but that does not conflict with what we know in the Book of Mormon).

The other viewpoint is more secular.  Secularism means that there is actually no such thing as correct prophecy (not something a member would support with their faith, but secular history is NOT religion or faith based).  This means logically Isaiah could NOT have written some of the portions of Isaiah as Isaiah would not have known what the future would entail in such detail.  Instead, they say that several authors wrote in Isaiah, and particularly some wrote AFTER (several hundred years, up to 200 years in some instances) the prophecies of Isaiah were fulfilled.

This can be either testimony lifting, or troublesome to those who read the Book of Mormon.  There are parts of Isaiah that are in the Book of Mormon that would indicate that they could not have possibly had those portions of Isaiah if contemporary theories of either side were accepted.  How then do we reconcile these?  This article from many years ago in the Ensign addresses this in part in an excellent way...

how do we explain material from Isaiah in the Book of Mormon

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The results of the study were conclusive: there is a unique authorship style throughout the various sections of Isaiah. The rates of usage for the elements of this particular style are more consistent within the book of Isaiah, regardless of the section, than in any other book in the study. This statistical evidence led us to a single conclusion: based on style alone, the book of Isaiah definitely appears to be the work of one man. The two parts of Isaiah most often claimed to have been written by different authors, chapters 1–39 and 40–66, were found to be more similar to each other in style than to any of the other eleven Old Testament books examined.

Some scholars seem to have a desire to do away with prophecy by placing the second half of Isaiah after the events described, making the mention of those events historical rather than prophetic. But Latter-day Saints, with their testimony of prophecy and with the many evidences given in the scriptures, have long affirmed that Isaiah, son of Amoz, wrote the entire book of Isaiah. In the Book of Mormon, Jacob, Nephi, Abinadi, and Jesus all quote from different parts of Isaiah, and each identifies the prophet by name. In their Gospels in the New Testament, Matthew, Luke, and John the Beloved do the same.4

No matter what evidence is available in the scriptures or more from secular sources such as computer analysis, there will undoubtedly continue to be those who will try to set the prophecies of Isaiah aside because they feel Isaiah could not know such details in advance. In this they err twice: (1) they err in thinking that Isaiah did not write chapters 40–66, and (2) they err in thinking that prophets do not know such details. The words of God’s prophets invariably come to pass.

Now, this is secular knowledge being applied to the Book of Mormon, but I would suggest another side to this from a more faith based approach.  If the Book of Mormon is true (and I know it is true) it already addresses this.  It talks of Isaiah and his prophecies in a way that they already have them.  They already write his words in the Book of Mormon itself, something that would be impossible for them to have if those portions were written after they had left Jerusalem.  They knew these portions and wrote them.

This indicates that Isaiah not only wrote the book of Isaiah but that these were TRUE prophecies that were given.  That these prophecies were actually known and written about BEFORE the Captivity, and thus that prophecy is true and a real thing. 

In this way, the Book of Mormon serves once again as a testament of Prophets and of the truths we also find in the Bible.  That it stands as telling us of the truth of Power of the Lord and of the Witness of the Spirit.  It shows us that the prophets of Old were true prophets and that they bore REAL power and authority, just as all those who are given it by the Lord are.  It shows us the pattern of which truth is revealed in days of old, just like it is in our time today.

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  • 3 weeks later...

This next post is more on culture and ideas than tradition and teachings.

I saw an article recently that Joe Biden, a man running for President of the United States had narrowed his lists of those he would choose from to be his running mate.  One prominent idea held by many of those is an idea to do away with the electoral college of the United States.

Now, this could be from the more conservative culture that we find in the Church, but I think the US Constitution was divinely inspired.  It allows freedom of religion, as well as the majority and minority of opinions to work together.  If we do away with the  Electoral college, it favors the power of the majority (some would say tyranny).

This idea struck me then, if these people have their way and some how do away with the Electoral college it will disenfranchise a GREAT many of the states giving power to a few, and letting the few states govern without restriction upon the greater number of states with fewer representatives. 

If we do away with the Electoral college, it would eventually result in another Civil War as there would be many states that would not feel represented in elections.  It would be the same as taxation without representation.  That is a big enough issue that I think, when people are not able to really be represented and ruled by the tyranny of the majority, they will go to war for their freedom.

(at least in the US in the nation where we still (hopefully) have the light of divine inspiration for freedom and the right for the rule of majority and minority opinion).

Edited by JohnsonJones
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  • 7 months later...

I had a dream recently that caused me to reflect on my life.  Perhaps not of interest to others, but wanted to write as much of it as I could down so I could recall it later.  I went camping this past Friday and of course at night went to sleep  and that's when the dream occurred.

I found myself in Salt Lake City Utah.  There, the Lord had come for a visit but he was not dressed like you imagine.  Instead he seemed almost like he was a homeless individual and in such an appearance went to person to person trying to talk to them.  I was surprised, no one wanted to talk to the Lord.  No one recognized him.  People even seemed to shun him.  
I then saw that he was not alone, with him were others that were angels that were also going among those in Salt Lake City.  Some gave them a few dollars, or perhaps some food, as they did with beggers, but no one listened to them or truly tried to help them.


Then, I saw the Lord in a large plaza.  It looked like there were fountains and a walkway which was surrounded by a mall of some sort.  He walked through it towards a street where you could see the Salt Lake Temple across of it and in the distance I think there may have been the Conference Center on the far side.  A crosswalk there went right across to the middle of the section, but he stood across the street near the plaza.  No one listened to him, and instead, eventually, people that appeared to be in uniform took hold of him and took him away from where you could see the temple and told him he could not be there.


I wondered how this could happen to the Lord.  Why could they not see who he was.  Why did no one listen to him or pay any heed to him.  Why didn't anyone do more to help him?
I then saw him among others who seemed to also be homeless.  There were also sick and others who he healed.  Those who had heard he could heal who seemed to be among the homeless tried to reach him.  It was only those that many would consider despicable in our society, but they were the only ones that gave him any heed.


However, if Salt Lake City was bad, it was worse other places.  He showed me other locations where he visited on this earth.  In some places people were so engrossed in violations of the sin of Chastity that it was almost like they were trying to convert people to their cause.  In such places as the Lord did not join in he was cast out even more strongly.  He was shunned far more in many places that you may think they would be more open to hearing people.  There were those who said that the poor should be cared for but then, when he was found near their places of work or wealth, forcibly removed him and many threatened him with bodily harm.  Many who claimed they wanted to have more equality or freedoms would see him and toss accusations on him.  They would say that he was not as disadvantaged as they, even as they spat on him and mocked that he appeared to be homeless.  


Still, even there, you could find some who were the poorest of the poor, the wandering homeless of the street that would talk to him.  It seemed odd that the rest of the world was oblivious to his and the angels presence, but he was known occasionally by those on the street.  It was like an open secret where he could be found, but the only ones that really exerted any effort to actually find him were those who were homeless or destitute.


I found myself there with him and able to talk to him, so I asked him what was happening and why this was.  He told me this was how it always was and always has been.   This is how it happened to him when he was here in his mortal ministry, and how it has happened before among others.  


He then showed me a short period of his time during his mortal ministry.  I found myself among crowds of people, but these were not the rich or even those who had a comfortable life.  I saw those who were stricken in poverty.  I saw those with great disfigurements and disabilities.  I saw those who were sick.  Almost none of them were what I'd say were in any station above that of a beggar.  They came to the Lord, but those who you think would listen, did not.  Those who were encased in their religion, who people considered the leaders of the Jewish Faith, those who were busily engrossed in the Jewish practices and would be considered the moral leaders of the time were no where to be seen.


I asked the Lord why this was and he whisked me to another time and place.


Here he explained was Alma and his companion teaching people.  They were located in what I would think would be a village.   I was told it was a city of the Nephites.  The homes were not what I imagined they would look like, being more having domelike roofs and wooden stake like walls (I could not tell exactly what they were made of or how).  They were scattered about with dirt paths between them, and a much larger building that seemed a bit sturdier close by.  


Alma was not being listened to by anyone in the larger building and they seemed to scorn him, but there were a group of people that seemed dressed in rags and to be the lowest of society that came to listen to him.  Here, I finally found out why people were listening (but not why they didn't).  These people were destitute and considered outcasts by those who worshipped in the larger building, and as such were also the lowest in society.  They had been forced to be humble, but it was more than just being poor, they were desperate to improve their situation in life.  They were desperate for anything that offered hope.


Thinking back on the other things I had seen, I recognized that all that had come to the Lord had likewise been deseperate.  It seemed that the only people that came to the Lord were desperate individuals.  They were desperate for hope, desperate for something better.  Those who were not desperate rarely came near him.


However, even the desperation did not cause enduring humility in all those who sought him or his servants out.  Many who were very sick and without hope of ever being well would come to him for healing, but after he healed them they would go their way and forget about him.  They would be grateful for a few minutes and then it was as if he never existed to them.
Once again I was told that this could be seen during his mortal ministry.  Even on the cross you had those who were desperate to be saved, with one on the one hand asking for hope while the other side despised him in their death.  


I asked why this happened.  Why was it that it seemed almost everyone that sought him out were only those who were desperate, and even among them there were many that only came because they had no other hope, but as soon as it was restored they would leave.  A few would remember him afterwards, but there were many who did not.


Finally, he had more of an explanation.  He said that it was the pride and selfishness of the world.  Too often we are happy with what we have, and we do not want more.  We will do whatever we can to keep what we have.  Instead of caring for others, we  will even go as far as to hurt another in order to keep what we have.  This is not the way of the Lord.


The ONLY way we can be like him is if we do all we can to not do any harm, and do all we can to  help others.  If we met a beggar on the street and we did all we could to ensure that they had a place to live, food to eat, the comforts of life, and then help to overcome any illnesses or ailments (which include addictions and other things) we would be doing as he would do.  
In his life he used all he had to help others.  He did not hold back (much to the bitterness of some who claimed to follow him).  His entire life was focused on helping others more than himself.  On a scale of importance, he would put himself at the bottom of the scale and everyone else far higher.  If he had choices of who to feed, who to house, it would always go to others rather than himself.


This is a concept that is foreign to men today as well as in the past.  When he said love they neighbor as thyself he was serious.  This is the way of the Lord.  Most people do not want to live this way.  If everyone put their neighbor's care equal or above themselves, no one would go hungry and all would have shelter and the necessities of life.  It may not make anyone rich, but it would make a society which would prosper because the focus of everyone's life would not be their own comfort, but that of others.


No one wants to hear how far they have to go to live this type of lifestyle.  Only those who are truly desperate will even give someone trying to promote such a lifestyle an ear to hear the ideas of this.  It is only the very rare individual that would listen to such a message (much less do this message) without being forced into the desperation to try anything to make  their life better.


This is when a great secret was shown me, which amazed me.  In the eyes of heaven, those who were desperate in this life, those with the least among us, at times were considered the greatest in heaven.  I had thought at times that those with wealth and comfort in this life were those who were the chosen in the pre-existence, that they were blessed with such because of valiance or some such before.  It was not necessarily so, many who we consider the least of us in this life are the greatest in heaven, and many who are the great among us today in this world, are the least in heaven.


Because of their humility and desires to follow the Lord, they are far more blessed than the richest and most powerful individual on this earth.  In fact, the best way to the Lord is to be that desperate.  We cannot just comfortably seek him out, but must be absolutely desperate for his ability to save us and his gospel.
If we are that desperate to follow him and seek him out we will find him.  However, even after that we cannot simply go back to a comfortable life.  We HAVE to try to help those who are around us.  We cannot ever want to harm another for our own gain.  We NEVER seek our own gain above others.  It is only by truly loving our neighbors, by ensuring their safety and hope above our own.


At this point I suppose I was somewhat hard-hearted.  How could we ever do this?


The Lord then said it didn't take us helping everyone, sometimes it was just one person.  He then expressed the story of Ruth in a way I hadn't thought of before.  I won't tell it all here, as it is too extensive, but I will tell the theme.  The Story of Ruth isn't so impressive because she is of the lineage that led to David, but because of her great love for her mother-in-law.  She sacrificed everything she had and all she could gain in her own family to help her mother-in-law survive.  It was her singular focus to help Naomi that made Ruth so great.  


In a very similar way mothers are redeemed through their children.  By having a dedicated focus on ensuring the well-being of their children, they can be like Ruth or others.  In the same fashion with our families, if we can put our families and their welfare above our own, we can be more Christlike.  If wives and husbands would put their spouse above their own desires and needs, homes would be more stable, families would prosper more, and our society would become more in line with what the Lord desires.  It doesn't take us to go around to everyone necessarily, though ideally we could, but our focus can also be on the few or one in our devotion to make their lives better, even at the expense of our own.


But above all, we must want to help others and never do harm.  It is a message the world never wants to hear and thus never heeds.  He then left, back to his wandering as a beggar among the people of the world.  As people ignored him, or even mocked him, I realized that they saw him as just another homeless beggar.  AS they did this to what they thought were the least of us, they literally WERE doing it to him, personally.  He was there, right there before them and they were doing it to him in person.  It was a very strange thing to feel.  


It isn't every homeless, in fact probably not most, but one never knows, it could be the very person is the Lord himself or one of his angels, and as we do help or harm to them, we are doing it to him.


And that was the end of the dream.  


Yes, I know it was a dream, and not really based on anything in the scriptures or our doctrine, but as dreams sometimes do to us, this one sort of impacted me when I had it recently.  I think we sometimes have dreams that make us think.  This one does that for me, at least recently.  It makes me realize that I probably am very far from being as good a person as I should be.  I have far too much selfishness and pride in my life.  I need to love more and help others more.  Even my own children have not always been at the forefront of my desires to help constantly.  I don't always seek the best thing for my spouse.  Even in the more limited fashion of putting others before ourselves, I have not been exemplary with putting my family members above my own needs, desires, or welfare.  I could always ask how can I help them more, how can I serve them, but I don't take every opportunity.  I think perhaps, even if it was a dream it is telling me that I need to be more selfless, if nothing more, with my own family members.

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  • 6 months later...

Some thoughts I've had over the summer as I was separated from many members of my family by distances and otherwise.

I think family units are divinely created and the most important building block of the Lord.

I'm not sure how to express what I felt about this. 

Everyone needs to feel important in life, to feel needed and recognized.  In a world with Billions (even if it were merely millions, or thousands, or hundreds it would stil apply) not everyone can be easily recognized or held as someone important.  Not everyone can feel that they are at least once in a while, the center of attention of those around them...at least not in a worldly audience scale.

In a Family this all changes.  In our immediate family we have 9 family members.  Each parent and Child is deeply important to us and each other.  They can stand out.  They can be recognized.  They can be the center of attention at times.  They each are very important to everyone around them.  All these things of feeling recognized and being important to others is found inside that family unit.  It is within the family unit where attention to each member  can be given most on a deep and distinct level. 

I think this was something important for each of us to feel and have in this life, but on a world population scale...it would be impossible.  However, on the scale of a family unit, it is completely possible.

With marriages, grandchildren, and now even great grandchildren, my family unit extends over 35 individuals and we still have this ability to connect and include others.  It is important for each of them to feel loved and needed.  It is something that can find in the family unit, even if they cannot find it in the world itself.  We have artists and writers that are key to what we love in our family and who we find important to see their art and read their work who are not recognized in the world, but are recognized in our family.  Their work is important.  We have musicians and engineers who do intricate pieces of music or create fascinating pieces of technology. 

The family unit provides something one cannot find anywhere else.  A good family unit provides a place of refuge and love which make each member of that family an important and significant piece of that family.  I think there are many facets which make it an integral piece of our Father's plan, and this is but one part of it, but I think it is an important part that sometimes we do not realize.

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On 3/31/2017 at 2:08 PM, JohnsonJones said:

In preparation for General Conference I was browsing various materials on the LDS website.  It is probably that I'm just slow in this regards and everyone here has already known about what I'm about to mention for a long time.  As I was looking at different conference talks through the years I found this

All Conferences

And then I found even more!

Ensign

Which floors me.  It has all the conferences and Ensigns back to 1971!  This is awesome!  This prompted me to open my tablet which I recently got and put the Gospel Library on, and lo and behold it had the same thing on it as well!  You can have all that with endless reading material!  I think it is very cool.  It does raise an interesting question though.  Now that I've discovered this, do I need to continue a subscription to the church magazines?

If I stop subscribing, is this a trend that others are also doing.  If so, would that indicate that eventually they might stop publishing the actual hardcopy of the magazine?  As a historian, this makes me somewhat sad.  For a historian, we are all about books and documents, most of the time hardcopies of items.  It seems so easy for electronic items to be lost if some event happens, or even something slight like a media change or an update to the program that opens a specific type of media. 

However, it is personally cheaper and easier to rely on the electronic than the hardcopy in this instance.  It is wonderful that these are available to the world via electronic means, especially with such a back history of issues and conferences.

Thank you for pointing out this resource(Ensign). Did not realise that I could go back to some of the issues of 1992 and '3 when I was a member. 

Edited by lonetree
sp.
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  • 2 months later...

Earlier this week I finished up my read through and restarted the Book of Mormon again.   I have had a busy year thus far since the beginning of classes and realized my scripture study has not been as extensive as it has been in the past.  I've tried to read at least 5-6 pages of the Book of Mormon each day, but I realized I had not spent as much time reading the other scriptures.  I've done the bare minimum with the Doctrine and Covenants, basically going over the Gospel study topics each week and their relevant portions, but not much more with the Doctrine and Covenants.  I've done less overall with the Bible.

We had a recent discussion of scripture study in Sunday School and it seems that many of us at times also suffer from these slumps in studying.

I was pondering on this during my Book of Mormon studying on Wednesday on the whys we keep reading and studying.  I've realized it before, but it struck me even more so as I read through Nephi.  If nothing else, as I read the Book of Mormon I feel the Spirit.  Even if nothing else during the day has lifted me up with the Holy Spirit manifesting itself to me, when I read the Book of Mormon I feel the spirit there.  By reading and studying, if nothing else, it helps us remember the gospel and it's importance if we are focused enough to feel the Holy Spirit manifesting the truth of it to us as we do so. 

I think that reading the Book of Mormon while open to the Spirit helps us keep our testimonies in a world that would tear them down.  If nothing else I can identify that feeling of the Holy Ghost directly.  It is something that stands out even when other things seem to try to tear down your testimony.  It is that extra something that is different when you read the Book of Mormon than from any other book...with the exception perhaps of some of our other standard works. 

It helps us realize once again, and every day, that the Book of Mormon is true, it tells us and reveals to us truth, and through that we can know that the gospel itself is true and from the Lord.

I need to get more set and invested in doing better and more scripture study though, as I should also remember to study the other standard works alongside the Book of Mormon.

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  • 10 months later...

I was able to go and do research this summer and travel again, but I am starting to really feel my age I think.  It may be soon where I think I may not be going off anymore.  I just feel...old.  That's not what this thread is about though, so, onto other things.

I came to the thread today to talk about some thoughts I had in relation to Europe, America, and the enemies of the United States from abroad.

We were taught when I was young that this was the promised land.  The American Continent, and specifically the North Americas with a focus on the United States was a place of abundance and freedom, where the Lord's people could dwell.

I observed that there are many locations now that there may be people who are not so friendly towards the United States, but are far more MORAL than we have become in the States. 

Even in the church we see this.  One item though struck me as I saw the many children other cultures have.  Saints in the U.S. are sometimes considered to have large families, especially in comparison to others.  In my anecdotal experience, it seems to me that family sizes in the Church are actually decreasing and falling.  The number of children are decreasing overall. 

In the nation itself we are not having enough children to sustain it.  If we did not have immigration the population of the United States (and probably Canada) would be falling. 

I bring this up because the Book of Mormon has a situation similar to ours and I wonder if a similar thing happened there.  We know the people grew wicked and eventually they were destroyed by the Lamanites. 

I wonder if, just as we are seeing today, they also started to have fewer and fewer children and smaller families.  Thus, what used to be the numbers in their military which they could use to defend themselves fell to very small numbers.

At the end, when they gathered up their people, they numbered less than a million strong.  If, as Joseph Smith indicated, they inhabited all of this continent, that would indicate that they at one time had large numbers of people, but those numbers fell drastically.

It makes me think that what we are seeing today may be very similar to what the Nephites experienced, and in that it has made me wonder if they also had a population decrease as their people got more and more wicked.

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