Divorce or Endure?


Bluebird
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7 hours ago, Bluebird said:

 What do I do?

Change your perception.  Stop focusing on all the negatives (it just makes things worse) and put more emphasis on the good.  I'm sure there are resources to address the social awkwardness - have you checked to see what's out there?  Also, if he treats you and the kids well - count your blessings.  I think there are people in the world that would trade their situation for yours in a heartbeat.  Oh, and you can have friends separate from your spouse - even if it's just online for now or you can join a class in your area and meet people that way.

Edited by my two cents
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I thought you were going to say something like "he is having serial affairs" or "he beats me up" or "he looks at pornography 4 hours a day" or "he is addicted to crack cocaine", not "he is a nice guy but has bad social skills".  

If you search "divorce" on this forum, you can read about people who are in truly bad marital situations, who are actually facing adultery, abuse, or addiction in a spouse (the three acceptable reasons for divorce according to the Church).  Please also ponder if divorcing for a frivolous reason (and lets face it, in the grand scheme of eternity, this is a frivolous reason) is fair for the children, who will likely suffer permanent harm far worse than having a father who sometimes says weird things.

 

 

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God said - Love one another.

He didn't say - Love one another only if they're not socially awkward, have good jobs, etc.

The problem here is not your husband.  The problem here is you.  You have not learned to LOVE.

You know your husband has a lot of challenges.  Instead of being his wife (or even his friend) helping him overcome his challenges, especially setting the example to your children to love their father to help him overcome his weakness and defending him to the world around you,  You've spent the past 15 years making him feel even more awkward.  He is totally alone.  He doesn't deserve this.  Now you have the rest of your life to finally learn to love your husband and help him be the best he can be as a precious child of God.  You have a lot of work ahead of you to make up for the past 15 years.  Hope you won't make your husband a victim of your self-focus, making him even more alone in the world, by divorcing him.

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Abuse, addiction, adultery.  These are reasons to end a marriage.  

I'm not hearing your husband doesn't care, but you obviously are missing something you need.  Ask yourself - is it legitimate to get this need met outside of marriage?  Depends on the need. 

It sounds like you really, really need a few good friends.  People you can go to lunch with every now and then and talk about stuff.  People who care about you.  Can you get some without violating your marriage vows?  Should be able to, right?

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9 hours ago, Bluebird said:

We tried counseling  once but he doesn't do the homework even when he died you can tell he wants to get things right but it's just beyond him.

This could be the problem.  Double check for pulse and respiration before burying him and moving on, though.  If either is present, however, try different counseling.

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8 hours ago, Bluebird said:

He works so hard and loves us.  But I don't love him. I care for him as a friend...

My heart honestly aches reading this. If ever you have heard this before, you know how painful it feels, especially if you have worked hard to show love for the other person.

9 hours ago, Bluebird said:

We tried counseling  once

Please try again. Strong marriages are built on trying a lot more than "once".

Quote

lds.org - Charity: In relationships with family members and others, followers of Christ look to the Savior as their example and strive to love as He loves, with unfailing compassion, patience, and mercy.

This video is only 4 minutes, please take a moment to view it.

 

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Sounds like you made a mistake.  then you doubled down and made 4 kids.  So for some reason he was good enough to marry, good enough to make 4 kids with, but now isn't good enough?

does that about sum it up?  You have 4 kids who love their dad.  However old your youngest is until they turn 18 is how much longer you need to stay in the marriage.

Follow the advice above.  Try to love your eternal companion, husband, father of your children.

FYI, even if you did divorce do you think he's going to go away?  You have four children together...

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I am a child of divorce and I think this thread could benefit from a description of what divorce is really like.  Too many people think that divorce equals freedom.  This is not so.  @yjacket may wish to back me up here:

First, if you divorce you will be poor.  As in working two jobs at McDonalds 80 hours a week poor.  This is because you and your ex must now establish two households off of one income.  

Second, you will be in debt.  Divorce lawyers run what, $15000? And you will need one if there is any animosity whatsoever.

Third, your children will suffer.  I was a child of divorce.  I suffered horribly for years.  I was also lucky in that i did not lose my testimony in the process.  Many children are not so lucky.  They may cope with their whole world and sense of stability being turned upside down by turning to drugs, chastity problems, etc.  If you are divorcing for reasons outside of adultery, abuse, and addiction, you are putting your childrens future at a horrible risk.  As @yjacket recently pointed out, the statistics back this up.

Fourth, you may never again have the chance to marry a righteous man.  Priesthood holders are looking for an eternal, lasting marriage.  Most sympathize with divorcees who had to leave over abuse, addiction, or adultery.  But most will likely see a past divorce for a frivolous reason as an unacceptable risk and not give you the time of day.  You may find yourself locked out of eternal marriage, practically speaking.

OP and anyone else considering divorce need to go into it with eyes open.  It is not freedom.  It is not fun.  It is horrible in the best of circumstances.  If you divorce for anything other than abuse, addiction, and adultery, you may find you have jumped out of the frying pan and into an erupting volcano.

 

Edited by DoctorLemon
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Guest MormonGator

15 years and four kids is a lot to walk away from. The grass isn't always greener and you might learn that very quickly if you do walk away. It will, no question damage your children as well.  

The old cliche is 100% true: be careful what you wish for, you might get it. 

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Guest LiterateParakeet

Bluebird, I'm so sorry you are hurting. In addition to  the advice above. please consider individual counseling for yourself.  I strongly believe that you can stay with your husband  (unless there is abuse you didn't mention) AND your life can get better and be happier. But I don't think you can do it alone. With your childhood and 15 yrs of being unhappy in your marriage you simply don't have the tools you need to turn things around. Therapy can help you with this. Trust me. I had a dysfunctional family too and  therapy has helped me find more genuine happiness. Therapy has helped me be more available to love the Lord,  my husband and my children. Happiness can be in your life too.

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11 hours ago, Bluebird said:

...He was very socially awkward. He was awkward in his affection to me to. He made me uncomfortable. And after I married him people suddenly seemed comfortable telling me how weird he is. My family can't stand him. I lost all my friends. I'm totally isolated- I can't even talk to him. He has such a hard time empathizing and just all around can't hold a conversation. When we were dating he wanted to be a radiologist. He was going to school for that. After we married he suddenly didn't know what to do and couldn't support us for about 7 years. He has a decent job now. His social awkwardness (I mean saying REALLY weird things to people, talking out of turn, talking about things that have nothing to do with anything) had caused me to develop such social anxiety that I have difficulty being anywhere with him....

@Bluebird, has your husband been diagnosed with Aspergers? If not, might be a good place to start.

M.

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2 hours ago, Maureen said:

@Bluebird, has your husband been diagnosed with Aspergers? If not, might be a good place to start.

M.

As an Asperger's person myself, I have to agree with this suspicion.   High functioning spectrum people are indeed smart-- in fact, typically have very high IQ's, and feel extremely vibrantly.  We're just not good a figuring out all these "invisible rules" people/society has and expressing things.  In addition to the speaking out of turn, not following "normal" flow of conversation, there's lots of other little things that add up.  Like I naturally make this really "weird" face when I'm thinking- it's not and the unwritten code says that my "weird" thinking face is not ok to make in public (people say I looking like I'm having a seizure).  Who'd have thought that make a thinking face not ok?  Is there a rational reason why it's not ok?  Not really, it's just the unwritten code.  And the invisible rules don't just say "don't make that face", there's LOTS of other rules in there too!  In fact, it's a giant textbook of invisible rules!    What's even more confusing is that this magical unwritten code changes!  So in addition to learning the textbook invisible rules one time, I need learn the textbook for behavior at church, behavior at school, behavior at home, behavior in front of a boss, etc-- it's exhausting!!   (Obviously I'm not your husband here, but I'm just expressing this because I suspect your husband might have similar experiences).  

So, do I read the invisible textbook of "rules"?  Well, I don't have any choice really.  Plus I want to succeed: like everyone else spectrum people do enjoy doing activities, being praised, and having friends.  So I'll do it.  But it's tiring.  It takes a long time.  Sometimes I'm sort of clueless.  And sometimes I get REALLY frustrated trying to read an invisible textbook.  But I got to do it.  Sometimes I envy the "neurotypical" people around me, who seemingly learned the entire textbook library via osmosis and simply being in the room.  But then, most times I don't want to be like them-- I want to be like me.  I like me.  I think outside of the box (frequently I don't even know where the invisible box is).  I am entirely honest to people- even when they don't want to hear it.  I can focus and conquer any problem faster than other people because I'm not distracted thinking about whether or not my shirt matches my shoes (ok, admittedly that's an extreme example).  I have passions and loves like any other person, and I pursue them in a simple and direct manner.

Asperger's people aren't bad at all, just different. 

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@Bluebird, I see that you deleted your post. I hope that through all the posts you were able to pull some helpful information/perspectives from other LDS members who have both lived and seen scenarios like this play out before. Best of luck to you, your husband and your family moving forward.

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Thank you everyone for your thoughts and advice. I meant to edit my question earlier but accidentally deleted it and with two kids on my lap and needing me I gave up:) My original post was pretty self centered I realized. In trying to sum up I think I made it sound like I'm insensitive to his situation or to others who do have it worse. I am so very thankful to be with someone who is so kind and good. I guess my real concern is this- I made an immature, wreck less decision when I was 19 years old. I've stayed because I do honor the covenants I've made and don't want my kids to suffer, my husband or me for that matter. I am hung up on that feeling I got in the temple. Usually when we don't listen to a prompting it doesn't have eternal consequences- though sometimes it does. So how do I repent for this? Divorce doesn't seem like a way to fix it. Staying logically makes me think I've not only sinned against the prompting but that I've short changed my husband and maybe even spouses that we should have had?  I worry that I've done something unfixable and though I've prayed for a lot of years for peace and guidance, in this one place in my life, I've not received it. As for having children- of course I did. I've been trying for a long time to live the gospel anyway, to honor my covenants and give my husband the life and family he deserves. I'm struggling inside- I've tried to talk to him about this but as I said he cannot have a conversation with me about really anything that would require him to be emotionless honest or logical or thoughtful in a way that makes sense to me- let alone this. He always wants to please me to the point I feel like I can't reach him at all. I really appreciated the comments about aspergers and I've had that thought for a long time. When we first were married I called everyone- counselors, speech therapists, doctors even chiropractors. No one ever came to that conclusion- though I did just have phone calls with them on the effort to figure out who we needed to see. I guess, and this probably sounds ridiculous but it's just where I am in my head, that if I knew God was ok with our marriage that I could maybe work harder, look at the eternal perspective more often. But when I try to do that now I just get scared that I've messed everything up for everyone. I'm just lost with this and don't know how to make it right. 

Edited by Bluebird
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11 hours ago, NightSG said:

This could be the problem.  Double check for pulse and respiration before burying him and moving on, though.  If either is present, however, try different counseling.

Lol- one reason I was trying to edit my question! Yes we need to try again- it's a matter of him being willing to go / affording it. But yes I agree. Thank you. 

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12 minutes ago, Bluebird said:

I am hung up on that feeling I got in the temple. Usually when we don't listen to a prompting it doesn't have eternal consequences- though sometimes it does. So how do I repent for this? 

I did not read your original post. What feeling did you receive/get in the temple? 

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20 minutes ago, Bluebird said:

maybe even spouses that we should have had

Anyone specific?

 

21 minutes ago, Bluebird said:

if I knew God was ok with our marriage

There are a lot of quotes from the prophets saying that soul mates or the one "right" person is not something that exists, and that any two righteous people who want to can have a loving and happy marriage. You made a covenant with your husband AND God. He's not only okay with it, He expects you to keep that covenant unless you have good reason (the 3 a's) to end it. 

You'll do yourself and your husband the most service by refusing to entertain any more thoughts of any "someone else" who "should have been" that God would approve of, more than the eternal union you've already made. 

If he won't go to counseling and participate, please go for yourself. You deserve to be happier, and so does he. With each other. 

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12 minutes ago, Eowyn said:

Anyone specific?

 

There are a lot of quotes from the prophets saying that soul mates or the one "right" person is not something that exists, and that any two righteous people who want to can have a loving and happy marriage. You made a covenant with your husband AND God. He's not only okay with it, He expects you to keep that covenant unless you have good reason (the 3 a's) to end it. 

You'll do yourself and your husband the most service by refusing to entertain any more thoughts of any "someone else" who "should have been" that God would approve of, more than the eternal union you've already made. 

If he won't go to counseling and participate, please go for yourself. You deserve to be happier, and so does he. With each other. 

No absolutely not anyone specific. 

You can see my original post on others people's comments I think. Basically when we went in to get married I was overcome with a feeling that this was really really wrong. It scared me enough that I still worry about it and see the big issues in our marriage as evidence that I'm wrong for him- not what he needs and vice versa.  I worry that I didn't listen, went through with it anyways. I was having some feelings along these lines leading up to it. I don't want to say exactly what happened but he did something to violate my trust in a huge way. He's never done anything like that since.  Anyway, there isn't anyone else that I know of. I just think if this isn't right then hypothetically don't I hold responsibility for anyone else that might have been right? Also my patriarchal blessings said certain things would happen on the temple when I got married and they didn't happen. 

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21 minutes ago, Bluebird said:

No absolutely not anyone specific. 

You can see my original post on others people's comments I think. Basically when we went in to get married I was overcome with a feeling that this was really really wrong. It scared me enough that I still worry about it and see the big issues in our marriage as evidence that I'm wrong for him- not what he needs and vice versa.  I worry that I didn't listen, went through with it anyways. I was having some feelings along these lines leading up to it. I don't want to say exactly what happened but he did something to violate my trust in a huge way. He's never done anything like that since.  Anyway, there isn't anyone else that I know of. I just think if this isn't right then hypothetically don't I hold responsibility for anyone else that might have been right? Also my patriarchal blessings said certain things would happen on the temple when I got married and they didn't happen. 

I'm obviously not one to interpret what impressions and feelings you got, but maybe to add a perspective that hasn't been considered: Maybe Satan was trying to put some doubts into your mind about this. I always find that when I'm closest to making the big decisions in my life, the strongest doubt and worry comes in that I'm making a wrong choice. I used to confuse this with the Spirit and then realized this was Satan coming in to create doubt and push me away from something that would bring joy in the long run. I know you're dealing with some problems in your marriage that you've discussed so this may seem like a weird option, but Satan provokes us in very interesting ways. But I do echo what Eowyn said. I think it would be helpful to discuss this with someone who can give you divine guidance. 

Edited by BeccaKirstyn
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12 minutes ago, Bluebird said:

anyone else that might have been right

No such thing.

 

I really, truly believe that Heavenly Father and Jesus are so much more merciful and understanding than we give them credit for. Even if we ignore a prompting or warning, that doesn't mean that it's too late for things to work out. Ever. I also really, truly believe is that Heavenly Father cares about the covenants we HAVE made, and what we ARE doing, not our mistakes of the past. If you think you need to repent for ignoring a prompting, do that. Then stop torturing yourself with unknowns, and pour that energy into serving and loving the good man you chose. Choose your love, then love your choice. That's what President Monson said, and I believe the second part is the very most important. Love him, serve him, pray for his heart to be changed, put his happiness above anyone else's opinion, give him your absolute loyalty. Don't stand for people talking your sweetheart down in your presence. Be his and make him yours. Love is action, not a magical occurrence. 

It's not magic, it's work. I think a lot of what we're taught in YW or wherever about our wedding day does a huge disservice to us by making us expect some mystical experience. What it is, is taking someone you trust and love enough by the hand and making promises, and then keeping them. And THEN, enjoying the blessings of keeping them. I kind of feel like you're doing what Pres. Uchtdorf talked about once and holding an umbrella up, keeping yourself from blessings pouring down on you from heaven. Go to the temple often and do some proxy sealings, and gosh, all of the ordinances; not just to remind yourself of the promises you made, but of the amazing blessings promised to you, including all the strength and ability you need to get though hard things.

Let go of your expectations, and ask Heavenly Father what His are. Ask what He wants for you, and for his son who you married and who He loves. Ask for your heart to be softened and changed toward your sweet companion. 

It's hard work, sister. I'm passionate about marriage and covenants and loyalty, but when the going gets tough I still sometimes get thoughts creeping in, wondering if I've made the right choices. The great thing is, that I'm the one in charge of my thoughts, and they only have as much power as I give them. When I start to focus on any little good thing I can find, and any way I can make his life easier, there's not so much room for the negative thoughts, and our relationship flourishes. 

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