Do lds people pray to Christ?

[Sunday21]

Do Lds people pray to Christ? A lady that I visit teach recommended this course of action. I thought we were meant to pray to Heavenly Father?

[Guest]

In the Bible, Jesus teaches us the Lord's prayer, which is addressed to Heavenly Father.  See Matthew Chapter 6.  There appears to be no Biblical precedent in the New Testament for praying to Jesus (at least that I am aware of off the top of my head).  Obviously I am not using the non-LDS Nicene Creed to apply the Lord's prayer to Jesus in making this statement.  Point being, praying to Heavenly Father, and not Jesus, appears to be what Jesus originally taught His apostles.  Whether or not praying to Jesus is incorrect, we know that praying to Heavenly Father is a correct, accepted form of prayer.

That said, is it really wrong to pray to Jesus necessarily?  I don't know the answer to this - I have always followed the Lord's prayer as set out in the Bible.  Thoughts, anyone?

Edited March 23, 2017 by DoctorLemon

[Vort]

14 minutes ago, Sunday21 said:

Do Lds people pray to Christ? A lady that I visit teach recommended this course of action. I thought we were meant to pray to Heavenly Father?

You are correct. Both the scriptures and our modern prophets have specifically taught us that we pray to the Father.

I have a great-great-uncle named Orson Pratt Huish who wrote two or three hymns in our LDS hymnbook. One of them, "Come unto Jesus", has four verses, each of which begins "Come unto Jesus..." When he originally wrote the hymn, the verses began with:

1. Come unto Jesus...
2. Call unto Jesus...
3. Pray unto Jesus...
4. Come unto Jesus...

Obviously, those in charge determined that the wording would be better modified, so as not to urge us to pray to Jesus. The account in 3 Nephi seems to indicate that it is appropriate to pray to the Savior if he is physically standing in front of you; otherwise, our prayers are directed to the Father, and to him only.

[SilentOne]

17 minutes ago, DoctorLemon said:

In the Bible, Jesus teaches us the Lord's prayer, which is addressed to Heavenly Father.  There appears to be no Biblical precedent to praying to Jesus.

There is a Book of Mormon precedent in 3 Nephi 19:

Quote

¹⁷And it came to pass that when they had all knelt down upon the earth, he commanded his disciples that they should pray. ¹⁸And behold, they began to pray; and they did pray unto Jesus, calling him their Lord and their God.

¹⁹And it came to pass that Jesus departed out of the midst of them, and went a little way off from them and bowed himself to the earth, and he said, ²⁰"Father, I thank thee that thou hast given the Holy Ghost unto these whom I have chosen; and it is because of their belief in me that I have chosen them out of the world. ²¹Father, I pray thee that thou wilt give the Holy Ghost unto all them that shall believe in their words. ²²Father, thou hast given them the Holy Ghost because they believe in me; and thou seest that they believe in me because thou hearest them, and they pray unto me; and they pray unto me because I am with them. ²³And now Father, I pray unto thee for them, and also for all those who shall believe on their words, that they may believe in me, that I may be in them as thou, Father, art in me, that we may be one."

²⁴And it came to pass that when Jesus had thus prayed unto the Father, he came unto his disciples, and behold, they did still continue, without ceasing, to pray unto him; and they did not multiply many words, for it was given unto them what they should pray, and they were filled with desire. ²⁵And it came to pass that Jesus blessed them as they did pray unto him; and his countenance did smile upon them, and the light of his countenance did shine upon them, and behold they were as white as the countenance and also the garments of Jesus; and behold the whiteness thereof did exceed all the whiteness, yea, even there could be nothing upon earth so white as the whiteness thereof. ²⁶And Jesus said unto them, "Pray on," nevertheless they did not cease to pray.

²⁷And he turned from them again, and went a little way off and bowed himself to the earth; and he prayed again unto the Father, saying, ²⁸"Father, I thank thee that thou hast purified those whom I have chosen, because of their faith, and I pray for them, and also for them who shall believe on their words, that they may be purified in me, through faith on their words, even as they are purified in me. ²⁹Father, I pray not for the world, but for those whom thou hast given me out of the world, because of their faith, that they may be purified in me, that I may be in them as thou, Father, art in me, that we may be one, that I may be glorified in them."

³⁰And when Jesus had spoken these words he came again unto his disciples; and behold they did pray steadfastly, without ceasing, unto him; and he did smile upon them again; and behold they were white, even as Jesus. ³¹And it came to pass that he went again a little way off and prayed unto the Father; ³²And tongue cannot speak the words which he prayed, neither can be written by man the words which he prayed. ³³And the multitude did hear and do bear record; and their hearts were open and they did understand in their hearts the words which he prayed. ³⁴Nevertheless, so great and marvelous were the words which he prayed that they cannot be written, neither can they be uttered by man.

³⁵And it came to pass that when Jesus had made an end of praying he came again to the disciples, and said unto them, "So great faith have I never seen among all the Jews; wherefore I could not show unto them so great miracles, because of their unbelief. ³⁶Verily I say unto you, there are none of them that have seen so great things as ye have seen; neither have they heard so great things as ye have heard."

I have this feeling that I heard somebody on television, so probably a conference talk or devotional, talking about this and why we shouldn't pray to Jesus, but I can't remember when. I'll have to try looking for it.

Edited March 23, 2017 by SilentOne
formatting irregularities

[Guest]

Just now, SilentOne said:

There is a Book of Mormon precedent in 3 Nephi 19:

I have this feeling that I heard somebody on television, so probably a conference talk or devotional, talking about this and why we shouldn't pray to Jesus, but I can't remember when. I'll have to try looking for it.

Well, you learn something new every day!

[skalenfehl]

 

John 14:8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.

 9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

 10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

 11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works’ sake.

 12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

 13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

 14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

Exodus 3: 13 And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them?

 14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.

D&C 93:1 Verily, thus saith the Lord: It shall come to pass that every soul who forsaketh his sins and cometh unto me, and calleth on my name, and obeyeth my voice, and keepeth my commandments, shall see my face and know that I am;

 2 And that I am the true light that lighteth every man that cometh into the world;

 3 And that I am in the Father, and the Father in me, and the Father and I are one—

 4 The Father because he gave me of his fulness, and the Son because I was in the world and made flesh my tabernacle, and dwelt among the sons of men.

Isaiah 53:8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

Mosiah 15:1 And now Abinadi said unto them: I would that ye should understand that God himself shall come down among the children of men, and shall redeem his people.

 2 And because he dwelleth in flesh he shall be called the Son of God, and having subjected the flesh to the will of the Father, being the Father and the Son—

 3 The Father, because he was conceived by the power of God; and the Son, because of the flesh; thus becoming the Father and Son—

 4 And they are one God, yea, the very Eternal Father of heaven and of earth.

 5 And thus the flesh becoming subject to the Spirit, or the Son to the Father, being one God, suffereth temptation, and yieldeth not to the temptation, but suffereth himself to be mocked, and scourged, and cast out, and disowned by his people.

 6 And after all this, after working many mighty miracles among the children of men, he shall be led, yea, even as Isaiah said, as a sheep before the shearer is dumb, so he opened not his mouth.

 7 Yea, even so he shall be led, crucified, and slain, the flesh becoming subject even unto death, the will of the Son being swallowed up in the will of the Father...

10 And now I say unto you, who shall declare his generation? Behold, I say unto you, that when his soul has been made an offering for sin he shall see his seed. And now what say ye? And who shall be his seed?...

Ether 3:14 Behold, I am he who was prepared from the foundation of the world to redeem my people. Behold, I am Jesus Christ. I am the Father and the Son. In me shall all mankind have life, and that eternally, even they who shall believe on my name; and they shall become my sons and my daughters.

JSH 1:17 It no sooner appeared than I found myself delivered from the enemy which held me bound. When the light rested upon me I saw two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy all description, standing above me in the air. One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the other—This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him!

Moses 1:39 For behold, this is my work and my glory—to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man.

Jehovah goes on to call Moses His son. He has also called others His son(s): 

D&C 39:1 Hearken and listen to the voice of him who is from all eternity to all eternity, the Great I Am, even Jesus Christ—

 2 The light and the life of the world; a light which shineth in darkness and the darkness comprehendeth it not;

 3 The same which came in the meridian of time unto mine own, and mine own received me not;

 4 But to as many as received me, gave I power to become my sons; and even so will I give unto as many as will receive me, power to become my sons.

D&C 31:1 Thomas, my son, blessed are you because of your faith in my work.

 2 Behold, you have had many afflictions because of your family; nevertheless, I will bless you and your family, yea, your little ones; and the day cometh that they will believe and know the truth and be one with you in my church.

D&C 34:1 My son Orson, hearken and hear and behold what I, the Lord God, shall say unto you, even Jesus Christ your Redeemer;

 2 The light and the life of the world, a light which shineth in darkness and the darkness comprehendeth it not;

 3 Who so loved the world that he gave his own life, that as many as would believe might become the sons of God. Wherefore you are my son;

3 Nephi:20 Father, I thank thee that thou hast given the Holy Ghost unto these whom I have chosen; and it is because of their belief in me that I have chosen them out of the world.

 21 Father, I pray thee that thou wilt give the Holy Ghost unto all them that shall believe in their words.

 22 Father, thou hast given them the Holy Ghost because they believe in me; and thou seest that they believe in me because thou hearest them, and they pray unto me; and they pray unto me because I am with them.

 23 And now Father, I pray unto thee for them, and also for all those who shall believe on their words, that they may believe in me, that I may be in them as thou, Father, art in me, that we may be one.

Then there's the most obvious one: D&C 109 where Joseph Smith prays to Jehovah as the Father in the name of the Son, Jesus Christ when dedicating the temple. The Kirtland Temple dedicatory prayer was specifically given to Joseph Smith by revelation. He did not make these words up. Prayerfully study who Joseph Smith is addressing and the names used to address Him.

D&C109:1 Thanks be to thy name, O Lord God of Israel, who keepest covenant and showest mercy unto thy servants who walk uprightly before thee, with all their hearts...

4 And now we ask thee, Holy Father, in the name of Jesus Christ, the Son of thy bosom, in whose name alone salvation can be administered to the children of men, we ask thee, O Lord, to accept of this house, the workmanship of the hands of us, thy servants, which thou didst command us to build...

10 And now, Holy Father, we ask thee to assist us, thy people, with thy grace, in calling our solemn assembly, that it may be done to thine honor and to thy divine acceptance...

42 But deliver thou, O Jehovah, we beseech thee, thy servants from their hands, and cleanse them from their blood.

 43 O Lord, we delight not in the destruction of our fellow men; their souls are precious before thee;

 44 But thy word must be fulfilled. Help thy servants to say, with thy grace assisting them: Thy will be done, O Lord, and not ours....

 68 O Lord, remember thy servant, Joseph Smith, Jun., and all his afflictions and persecutions—how he has covenanted with Jehovah, and vowed to thee, O Mighty God of Jacob—and the commandments which thou hast given unto him, and that he hath sincerely striven to do thy will.

 69 Have mercy, O Lord, upon his wife and children, that they may be exalted in thy presence, and preserved by thy fostering hand...

78 O hear, O hear, O hear us, O Lord! And answer these petitions, and accept the dedication of this house unto thee, the work of our hands, which we have built unto thy name;

 79 And also this church, to put upon it thy name. And help us by the power of thy Spirit, that we may mingle our voices with those bright, shining seraphs around thy throne, with acclamations of praise, singing Hosanna to God and the Lamb!

[skalenfehl]

Sorry about the quotes. This forum really has issues. Or I really have issues with the way we can post (and can't even review our posts to prevent embarrassing formatting). I can't even figure out how to delete my poorly submitted posts.

Edited March 24, 2017 by skalenfehl

[bytebear]

And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him. - Colossians 3:17
 

[BeccaKirstyn]

1 hour ago, Vort said:

I have a great-great-uncle named Orson Pratt Huish who wrote two or three hymns in our LDS hymnbook. One of them, "Come unto Jesus", has four verses, each of which begins "Come unto Jesus..."

How cool you're related. One of my favorite hymns to sing and play. 

[Vort]

6 minutes ago, BeccaKirstyn said:

How cool you're related. One of my favorite hymns to sing and play. 

He also wrote the music for "Come, All Ye Sons of God", which is one of my favorite Priesthood-oriented hymns. There were a couple of other of his hymns that were included in the old (pre-1985) hymnbook but didn't make the cut for the 1985 version: "Jesus, My Savior True, Guide Me to Thee" and "Utah, the Star of the West".

We actually used to sing "Jesus, My Savior True" pretty often, especially for a sacrament song, but I guess the hymn committee thought better of it. At least they included my favorite sacrament hymn, "In Humility, Our Savior". I have no connection to the author of that hymn; I just hope to have the opportunity to thank her in the next life.

[Sunday21]

Thank you so much everyone!

[Blackmarch]

On March 23, 2017 at 4:27 PM, Sunday21 said:

Do Lds people pray to Christ? A lady that I visit teach recommended this course of action. I thought we were meant to pray to Heavenly Father?

You are correct. Christ said to pray to the father... Outside of that tho i suppose if one were tonpray to some one else, christ would be the best alternative. I know some lds that have but thats usually a case of just adjusting to the new culture and things along that line especiallynif they were from another christian faith previously.

[Ezra Pax]

On 3/23/2017 at 4:44 PM, Vort said:

You are correct. Both the scriptures and our modern prophets have specifically taught us that we pray to the Father.

I have a great-great-uncle named Orson Pratt Huish who wrote two or three hymns in our LDS hymnbook. One of them, "Come unto Jesus", has four verses, each of which begins "Come unto Jesus..." When he originally wrote the hymn, the verses began with:

1. Come unto Jesus...
2. Call unto Jesus...
3. Pray unto Jesus...
4. Come unto Jesus...

Obviously, those in charge determined that the wording would be better modified, so as not to urge us to pray to Jesus. The account in 3 Nephi seems to indicate that it is appropriate to pray to the Savior if he is physically standing in front of you; otherwise, our prayers are directed to the Father, and to him only.

Sorry to post on an old topic but I have had the same question and just want to leave this here for those who come across it like I just did years later.

I have also heard in Sunday School etc. that it was only OK because Jesus was "physically present" and able to hear them right there. Yet look what happens next:
At the end of this miraculous scene of mediation and prayer Jesus commands “the multitude that they should cease to pray… And he commanded them that they should not cease to pray in their hearts” (20:1). Jesus here tells his believers that they should continue to pray to him in their hearts which is efficacious despite not being physically in the presence of Jesus. Furthermore, Jesus consistently promises that he “will be with [us]” and that he will never leave us, which would seem to meet the criteria of being “with them,” which explains why Ananias, Stephen, John, Alma, Nephi, and Joseph Smith all prayed to Jesus.

Scripture sanctions and invites us to call upon, ask, and praise Jesus Christ through song and prayer directed to him. Furthermore, saints are never forbidden to do so. Should saints pray to the Father in the name of Christ as Jesus taught? Of course! Can saints call upon, ask, and praise Jesus Christ through prayer? Of course.
 

[Just_A_Guy]

6 hours ago, Ezra Pax said:

I have also heard in Sunday School etc. that it was only OK because Jesus was "physically present" and able to hear them right there. Yet look what happens next:
At the end of this miraculous scene of mediation and prayer Jesus commands “the multitude that they should cease to pray… And he commanded them that they should not cease to pray in their hearts” (20:1). Jesus here tells his believers that they should continue to pray to him in their hearts which is efficacious despite not being physically in the presence of Jesus. Furthermore, Jesus consistently promises that he “will be with [us]” and that he will never leave us, which would seem to meet the criteria of being “with them,” which explains why Ananias, Stephen, John, Alma, Nephi, and Joseph Smith all prayed to Jesus.

Scripture sanctions and invites us to call upon, ask, and praise Jesus Christ through song and prayer directed to him. Furthermore, saints are never forbidden to do so. Should saints pray to the Father in the name of Christ as Jesus taught? Of course! Can saints call upon, ask, and praise Jesus Christ through prayer? Of course.
 

Your analysis here tends to elicit several difficult questions.  If Jesus’s point in 3 Ne 19:22 is merely that it’s appropriate to pray to whatever member of the Godhead is with one metaphorically—were not the Father and the Holy Ghost also present during this incident?  If so, why did the Nephites limit their prayers to Jesus?  And if They were not there metaphorically—well, why not?  As for assurances of future presence—Jesus promised to be “with” the Nephites in a metaphorical sense, but they also had the gift of the Holy Ghost, meaning that metaphorically that member of the Godhead would be “with them” just as much as Jesus would be (and indeed, even more “with them” than Jesus from a literal standpoint).  And yet, we never pray to the Holy Ghost. Moreover, as to 20:1, it is noteworthy that that Jesus did not, thereafter, immediately leave.  He remained physically present with the Nephites for quite some time as they continued to pray to Him in their hearts.  So it is textually problematic to suggest that 20:1 should be interpreted as Jesus saying “go ahead and keep praying to me even after I’ve ascended to Heaven”.

In a post a few minutes ago to another thread, I offered you the following point:

I think it worth noting that Elder McConkie was addressing a very specific set of circumstances and teachings that had developed on the BYU campus.  His warning was that those who became obsessed with being “truer than true” risked entangling themselves with “gospel hobby which creates an unwholesome holier-than-thou attitude. In other instances it leads to despondency because the seeker after perfection knows he is not living the way he supposes he should.”  Elder McConkie was trying to root out a form of hyper-scrupulously in the Church; and frankly we’d be a lot better off if we had taken him a bit more seriously.

To this, in the context of this particular discussion, I would also note that in the same talk Elder McConkie addressed a book which claimed that *all* prayers do go through, and therefore ought properly be addressed to, Jesus; and that the Father’s role in our lives is actually quite remote.  That is the mentality and the practice that Elder McConkie is rebuking here.  I doubt it’s an enormous act of blasphemy or a grave step on the road to perdition, to direct a prayer to Jesus now and again.  But I think we generally need to be really careful to not lose perspective or get to the point where we conceptualize Jesus as the deity whose unparalleled love alone saved us from the wrath of a remote and vengeful Father whose role in our salvation gets reduced to that of the Hebrew ha-satan.

Edited July 31, 2021 by Just_A_Guy

[Ezra Pax]

Very cool. Yes I would not advocate any kind of Marcionism or setting Jesus at odds with the Father.
In scripture it is hard to miss the fact that the Father (Ahman) is in the background. Maybe disputable but in my Hebrew course we learned that in the Old Testament every reference to Elohim and Jehovah is referring to the same deity, Jesus. In the Book of Mormon Jesus Christ is the Eternal God and very much takes center-stage as the salient hero and God of the Book. I think the same of the D&C, Jesus is the one receiving petitions, answering questions, forgiving sins, granting blessings, and judging eternal destinies. The Father is there but in all of scripture I see that Jesus has the Preeminence in all things. 
I am just working through my thoughts on this.

[Traveler]

On 8/5/2021 at 9:30 PM, Ezra Pax said:

Very cool. Yes I would not advocate any kind of Marcionism or setting Jesus at odds with the Father.
In scripture it is hard to miss the fact that the Father (Ahman) is in the background. Maybe disputable but in my Hebrew course we learned that in the Old Testament every reference to Elohim and Jehovah is referring to the same deity, Jesus. In the Book of Mormon Jesus Christ is the Eternal God and very much takes center-stage as the salient hero and God of the Book. I think the same of the D&C, Jesus is the one receiving petitions, answering questions, forgiving sins, granting blessings, and judging eternal destinies. The Father is there but in all of scripture I see that Jesus has the Preeminence in all things. 
I am just working through my thoughts on this.

There are several reasons that people get confused at the role of Jesus the Christ.  In Heaven the Father is the Supreme Suzerain of that kingdom of Heaven and Jesus Christ is his servant Vassal.   We are also told that Christ is the mediator for "fallen" man with the Father.  In short we are in exile because of the fall and depend on Christ for our salvation.  But that salvation comes through Christ as our Mediator and Proctor of the covenant under the direction of the Supreme Suzerain.    BTW Jesus tells us directly that the Father is "greater" than he is.

We will remain in exile until or unless we are reconciled back to the Father - which can only come through the Mediator Jesus Christ - the Son of the Father.  Note that the title of the Son of the father denotes law and a covenant.

The reason we pray to the Father is to recognize the Father as the Supreme Suzerain the reason we pray in the name of Jesus Christ is to recognize him as the covenant Vassal of the Father and Proctor of our covenant to receive Salvation.

 

The Traveler

[Ezra Pax]

The reason that Jesus is worthy of praise and prayer is because he is equal to God the Father (Ahman) in divinity.
That is right that as a mortal Jesus "made himself nothing by taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness" at which time the Father was clearly greater (Phil 2:7). That said, Jesus is equal to the Father in eternality, immutability, omniscience, in possessing all power, and in infinite nature (D&C20:28).

Both the Father and the Son together “constitute the great, matchless, governing and supreme power over all things… The Son… possessing all the fulness of the Father, or the same fulness with the Father” (Joseph Smith, Lectures on Faith, Zion's Camp Books, 1988, 5:2)

Still, I see your point that "we are Christ's and Christ is God's". Nonetheless Jesus the Eternal God is worthy of worship and totally divine, is the point that I was emphasizing.