writer: "stay-at-home moms are criminals!"

[Traveler]

For those that want some scripture – I would suggest “putting your house in order” as a theme for a search (not a literal entire string search). 

My father was a very wealthy but simple man.  He believed that we should never desire more possessions than what we are willing to take care of.   Not just sort of or kind of care but excellent care.  I remember him telling me when I got my first car that if I could not afford a mechanic – I should either learn myself to take care of the car (do everything necessary to maintain it in top condition) or get rid of it (BTW I currently own two vehicles – one is 24 years old and the other is 13 and both are in perfect condition – and are clean inside and out).  He also taught me to never criticize anyone unless I was willing to take over and do it better myself.  I fired my part time maintenance for some investment property this weekend on this premise – it cost me my weekend but I could not stand the poor workmanship and I certainly do not expect my tenants to have to put up with what was being provided.  

I use to white water raft every year.  We would have as many as 60 people on our week-long expedition.   I had rules.  I would explain that our purpose was to have fun.  That I personally maintained and provided all the rafting equipment and no one was charged a dime.  But I expected my equipment to be treated like it was gold.  I said that those that were not willing to take care of stuff and do their part – they could raft with someone else – here everyone works and does their part.  I explained that everyone has a life vest and paddle (each had a number and was assigned to someone) – They would get just one warning; if they ever treated either of those items without respect.  The second offence – they could be done and could walk out.  If they were kids – their parents would be walking out with them.   They were also expected to take care of their own stuff – if they did not – they would never be invited on another raft trip.  We never had anyone break the rules and I have had many families say (even years later) that this was their best ever vacation.

I have had parents tell me that at home their children never obey like they do on the river; where they would do everything, they are told and seem happy about it.

I have suggested before that I see the final judgment (entry into the Celestial Kingdom) much like river rafting.  No one will be forced to go – but the rules will be explained to everyone before they take part.  I doubt that those that do not respect G-d’s and other’s “stuff” will find the “expedition” something they really want to be part of.  And I have learned in life that in order to respect and care properly for other’s “stuff” – at a minimum – you have to be willing to take care of your own “stuff”. 

Shakespeare put it this way – “To thy own self be true and it shall follow as the night the day – thou canst not be false to any man.”  No one has to make their own bed every day – but if they do – they will be much happier (successful) in life for it.  BTW the words “Make Your Own Bed” has symbolic meaning that applies to both physical and spiritual things far beyond the bed you slept in last night.

 

The Traveler

 

[Bini]

This does not represent feminism, at least not as a whole, it perhaps is the thinking of a very small sector of feminists. The tagline feminists promote is gender equality, giving women the same rights and opportunities that their male counterparts receive. Feminists champion full time working mothers, part-time working mothers, and stay at home mothers if that is what she chooses. I have been a stay at home mother for 6 years and I have enjoyed it thoroughly. As a feminist, I support a woman's right in making the decision she feels is best for herself and her family.

[Guest MormonGator]

1 hour ago, Bini said:

This does not represent feminism, at least not as a whole, it perhaps is the thinking of a very small sector of feminists. The tagline feminists promote is gender equality, giving women the same rights and opportunities that their male counterparts receive. Feminists champion full time working mothers, part-time working mothers, and stay at home mothers if that is what she chooses. I have been a stay at home mother for 6 years and I have enjoyed it thoroughly. As a feminist, I support a woman's right in making the decision she feels is best for herself and her family.

I agree totally. I'm a guy and I've always associated myself with feminists, just not the real radical ones. Feminism is about choice. The choice to stay at home or work, the choice to change your name or not, the choice to have babies or not, etc. 

[yjacket]

2 hours ago, MormonGator said:

I agree totally. I'm a guy and I've always associated myself with feminists, just not the real radical ones. Feminism is about choice. The choice to stay at home or work, the choice to change your name or not, the choice to have babies or not, etc. 

I actually disagree with this.  If you claim that feminism is about choice then women have always had that choice over the last 100 years.  Just b/c you make a choice that you want to work doesn't mean you will actually get a job.  I may make a choice that I want to be an astronaut . . .but in order to be an astronaut I must do a lot of things and someone must want to hire me.  Forcing someone to hire me b/c I'm black, white, male, female and I want to be an astronaut is morally wrong.  Identity politics is evil.

 I can't think of one thing that women were forced do to over the last 100 years.  Feminism is not about choice, it is about changing cultural expectations and norms-it is about moral equivalency; i.e. saying that the choice to work outside the home has the same moral equivalency as the choice to stay home, that th e choice to have children is the same moral equivalency as the choice not to have kids etc., etc. etc.

Quite frankly, feminism doesn't have any place within the LDS church; why? B/c they aren't morally equivalent.  Sure a woman may make the choice to work outside them home . . .shoot I support the ability for women to work a 9-5 job if they so choose. I disagree severely with the choice, just like I disagree with drug use-but if you want to screw up your family life, be my guest.  

The Church has always and will always teach the same principles about the Family enshrined in the Proclamation on the Family.  That proclamation and the truths declared where-in are 100% opposite of feminism and it's goals-which is about moral equivalency (i.e. that choice to stay at home is the same value choice as to work outside the home . . .and that is just patently false).

Edited June 7, 2017 by yjacket

[Guest MormonGator]

12 minutes ago, yjacket said:

I actually disagree with this.

Drat! And to think all this time I had you pegged as a radical 1960's era true blue believing radical! 

(just playing everyone!) 

If we all agreed on everything the internet would be incredibly boring. I think we all can agree on that. 

Edited June 7, 2017 by MormonGator

[yjacket]

9 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

Drat! And to think all this time I had you pegged as a radical 1960's era true blue believing radical! 

(just playing everyone!) 

If we all agreed on everything the internet would be incredibly boring. I think we all can agree on that. 

MG . . .I love your humor-very similar to mine . . .yeap it sure would be a boring place.

[Guest MormonGator]

3 minutes ago, yjacket said:

MG . . .I love your humor-very similar to mine . . .yeap it sure would be a boring place.

Really appreciate the kind words man thank you very much. I have nothing but respect for you and your views, for sure.   

[yjacket]

I watched this video and I think there is a lot of wisdom in it. Sidenote: I don't advocate for either men's rights or women's rights, I think either one is pretty stupid and pointless, but I appreciate the viewpoint and I think there are a lot of very good points the author makes.

 

[SilentOne]

On 6/7/2017 at 3:35 PM, MormonGator said:

If we all agreed on everything the internet would be incredibly boring. I think we all can agree on that. 

I don't agree.

[SilentOne]

On 6/7/2017 at 3:50 PM, yjacket said:

I watched this video and I think there is a lot of wisdom in it. Sidenote: I don't advocate for either men's rights or women's rights, I think either one is pretty stupid and pointless, but I appreciate the viewpoint and I think there are a lot of very good points the author makes.

The sorts of things she described in her experience of "listening" to the men's rights advocates have lead me to almost entirely abandon commenting on most topics that I feel strongly about. Even if I wait to calm down and re-read the points I was going to respond to and make sure I understood correctly, I'll probably get riled up again when reading the response, which I will probably take at least for a moment as a personal attack, and then I have to try to calm down again. And if the other person is also emotional and taking it all personally and reading things that I'm not typing, we'll have a nice ugly mess on our hands.

[anatess2]

12 hours ago, SilentOne said:

The sorts of things she described in her experience of "listening" to the men's rights advocates have lead me to almost entirely abandon commenting on most topics that I feel strongly about. Even if I wait to calm down and re-read the points I was going to respond to and make sure I understood correctly, I'll probably get riled up again when reading the response, which I will probably take at least for a moment as a personal attack, and then I have to try to calm down again. And if the other person is also emotional and taking it all personally and reading things that I'm not typing, we'll have a nice ugly mess on our hands.

See, this is not how I approach discussions.  I simply say - This is what I think.  If you disagree, I'll listen to you and decide if it's good enough to change what I think.  If not, then I just tell you, nope, this is still what I think.  My views evolve, so I can look back at something I wrote 5 years ago and realize I have changed my position on that.  No big deal.  There's nothing "personal" about it (as in, it doesn't make me think less of you, nor get offended by it, etc.).  Of course, because it's the internet, people think I'm personal about it because I say sooo many things on the internet (I have an opinion on everything - from vegetables to Trump, from infinity to infinity) that I tend to be a lot less careful about how I say things.  Most times, it goes from my brain to the keyboard with only spell-check in between and the culture I was born into (which is still my primary brain thought pattern even as I have spent as much time in the USA as I have my homeland) is not much concerned about tact.

[SilentOne]

@anatess2 But I was specifically talking about discussions that I am already taking personally just in reading. I stay away to 1) keep from saying things I'll regret, 2) keep it from getting more personal as they start responding to me, and 3) avoid responding to things that I read into the post that aren't actually there.

[anatess2]

7 hours ago, SilentOne said:

@anatess2 But I was specifically talking about discussions that I am already taking personally just in reading. I stay away to 1) keep from saying things I'll regret, 2) keep it from getting more personal as they start responding to me, and 3) avoid responding to things that I read into the post that aren't actually there.

It's the internet, man.  We're talking to your Avatar.  It's supposed to be impersonal.