Coveting on your kids' behalf


Backroads
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We had a bit of a family argument this week. My mother, who is a wonderful, wonderful person in many ways, has lonh struggled with covetousness. She admits this. Mostly it has kept to her envying other people with nicer things, but this week...

She pretty much told me and two of my brothers we may be embarrassing her because her friends' adult children have huge new houses. Now, the three of us are hardly living in squalor or ghettos, but no, none of have particularly big or new houses.

My MiL has been bugging us about purchasing another home, but this is mostly because my SiL has become a realtor (to help pay for her big new house, but that's another story.)

So, yeah, we are offended. Do her friends really care where we live? Does she realize one of her friends is in admitted debt to buy her children the big new homes?

Is this a thing? Your children's lifestyles aren't luxurious enough you have to covet lifestyles for kids who are out of the house?

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I am married and currently have 3 children in the home.  I do not have cable television, and have the lowest cost high speed internet available.  My cell phone and my wife's cell phone cost combined is less than $30 / month (we do not have data plans).  We go out to eat less than 3x / month.  Our house is 60+ years old, and cost much less than some of my in laws homes, and is not as 'fancy'.  All of our cars are at least 10 years old.  My wife is a homemaker.

My wife and I choose to live this way even though we could afford to live otherwise.  By doing so, we will be able to pay off our house before the end of this year and will be 100% debt free. Many may judge our lifestyle but few of them will be free from debt anytime soon.  Like yours, MiL has also indicated she feels we should get a nicer home.  However, after paying off our home, my plan is to not buy another home without paying the price in full up front.  If I am able to get a nicer home one day, great (I'm fairly sure it will happen)!  If not, oh well, I am not a slave to my creditors, and can focus my life on more important things!

If your mother can take a joke, you should tell her when she dies to leave every penny to you just so that at least one of her children can live the life she covets for herself and for them. ;)

I would only ever feel it appropriate to express disappointment with a child or family members living conditions if they were living inappropriately, or outside of their means. (i.e. excessive debt, foolish spending habits, etc)

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47 minutes ago, Backroads said:

We had a bit of a family argument this week. My mother, who is a wonderful, wonderful person in many ways, has lonh struggled with covetousness. She admits this. Mostly it has kept to her envying other people with nicer things, but this week...

She pretty much told me and two of my brothers we may be embarrassing her because her friends' adult children have huge new houses. Now, the three of us are hardly living in squalor or ghettos, but no, none of have particularly big or new houses.

My MiL has been bugging us about purchasing another home, but this is mostly because my SiL has become a realtor (to help pay for her big new house, but that's another story.)

So, yeah, we are offended. Do her friends really care where we live? Does she realize one of her friends is in admitted debt to buy her children the big new homes?

Is this a thing? Your children's lifestyles aren't luxurious enough you have to covet lifestyles for kids who are out of the house?

Covetousness is seldom rational, as seen in this case.  What I see here is a mom trying to live through her child's shoes-- she wants to be proud of you (in the good sense and bad sense of "proud") and gets upset when you're not living her fairy tale life.  But that's not reality.  Reality is that your life is your life, not hers.  And honestly I doubt her friends actually care about your house or even gave it two thoughts. 

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2 hours ago, Backroads said:

...She pretty much told me and two of my brothers we may be embarrassing her because her friends' adult children have huge new houses. Now, the three of us are hardly living in squalor or ghettos, but no, none of have particularly big or new houses....

Does your Mother realize how petty and shallow this sounds? If she does, then all you can do is shrug and carry on with your life.

M.

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2 hours ago, Backroads said:

We had a bit of a family argument this week. My mother, who is a wonderful, wonderful person in many ways, has lonh struggled with covetousness. She admits this. Mostly it has kept to her envying other people with nicer things, but this week...

She pretty much told me and two of my brothers we may be embarrassing her because her friends' adult children have huge new houses. Now, the three of us are hardly living in squalor or ghettos, but no, none of have particularly big or new houses.

My MiL has been bugging us about purchasing another home, but this is mostly because my SiL has become a realtor (to help pay for her big new house, but that's another story.)

So, yeah, we are offended. Do her friends really care where we live? Does she realize one of her friends is in admitted debt to buy her children the big new homes?

Is this a thing? Your children's lifestyles aren't luxurious enough you have to covet lifestyles for kids who are out of the house?

Huge new houses are, in reality, not something to be proud of.  They are often an indication you are a slave to your mortgage. 

Do you really want to be shackled to a $3,000/month mortgage payment for the next 30 years?  Is this good, sound financial planning?  What if you get laid off?  What if you get sick of your job and want to leave?  What about saving for retirement, a rainy day, schooling for your children?  I can think of a million better things to do with the excess money than buy a McMansion.

I personally think one should downsize as much as possible within reason.  Moving to the ghetto may not be smart (because it is hard to raise righteous children when you live next door to a crack house), but buying more house often just means less time and less money for the things that really matter.  Think carefully before putting yourself into debt slavery.

Edited by DoctorLemon
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6 minutes ago, DoctorLemon said:

Huge new houses are, in reality, not something to be proud of.  They are often an indication you are a slave to your mortgage. 

Do you really want to be shackled to a $3,000/month mortgage payment for the next 30 years?  Is this good, sound financial planning?  What if you get laid off?  What if you get sick of your job and want to leave?  What about saving for retirement, a rainy day, schooling for your children?  I can think of a million better things to do with the excess money than buy a McMansion.

I personally think one should downsize as much as possible within reason.  Moving to the ghetto may not be smart (because it is hard to raise righteous children when you live next door to a crack house), but buying more house often just means more problems.  Think carefully before putting yourself into debt slavery.

It's all relative, and depends on what part of the country you live in a 3k/mo mortgage where I live a McMansion does not buy, more like a a 1,200sq. ft 3 and 1 built in 1952.

 

Edited by omegaseamaster75
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14 minutes ago, omegaseamaster75 said:

It's all relative, and depends on what part of the country you live in a 3k/mo mortgage where I live a McMansion does not buy, more like a a 1,200sq. ft 3 and 1 built in 1952.

 

I was looking at your profile to see where you live!  It is true, 3k/month in New York City or Silicon Valley is merely middle class.  Apparently, a 60k/year salary in Houston is equivalent to 160k/year in New York.  I am assuming salaries in New York sort of reflect this reality.  I hear Utah is also really expensive, with starter homes averaging 200k.  

I also recognize the fact that some families do need bigger homes than others.  A brother in my last ward had 11 children, so of course he needed a larger house.  How much house is too much house is very much going to depend on personal circumstances.

But you do get my point - there is a point of diminished returns with housing, after which more money positively does not buy more happiness.

Edited by DoctorLemon
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7 hours ago, Backroads said:

We had a bit of a family argument this week. My mother, who is a wonderful, wonderful person in many ways, has lonh struggled with covetousness. She admits this. Mostly it has kept to her envying other people with nicer things, but this week...

She pretty much told me and two of my brothers we may be embarrassing her because her friends' adult children have huge new houses. Now, the three of us are hardly living in squalor or ghettos, but no, none of have particularly big or new houses.

My MiL has been bugging us about purchasing another home, but this is mostly because my SiL has become a realtor (to help pay for her big new house, but that's another story.)

So, yeah, we are offended. Do her friends really care where we live? Does she realize one of her friends is in admitted debt to buy her children the big new homes?

Is this a thing? Your children's lifestyles aren't luxurious enough you have to covet lifestyles for kids who are out of the house?

Anything can be a thing ..... Theres certainly enough population that even a percent of a percent stuff pops up in decent numbers.... I wouldnt be surprised if some form of this psyche pops up occasionally.

If she were to take a moment to think things through sh probably would see it, its justvthat things that are habits for us we do not think about.

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You should honor your parents, but sometimes, if they aren't being the most righteous about something, you should take what they say with a grain of salt.

My oldest son reminds me of this all the time when I suggest something, he smiles, and ignores any advice or anything I may say and does his own thing.

There are times we live vicariously through our children (maybe it's not living vicariously, but I want my children to be as successful in the world as I see them able to become, and am disappointed when they do not accomplish that).  I need to be reminded at times that I love them no matter what, and material goods are temporary things.

More important than things of this world, is that they have a testimony of the gospel and are firm in the faith.  If we have the gospel, faith in the Lord, and live obediently and righteously we have more in heaven than any wealth on this earth can purchase.

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Reminds me of when I was a kid. My father, before he retired, was a school principal. (Not of the school I went to I hasten to add - he had a lot more sense than to inflict that upon me.) But one of the teachers in his school [I'll call her Mrs. Morrison - though that wasn't her name] had a son who went to the same school as me. My father would come home in the evening and say "I've just been talking to Mrs. Morrison, and she says her son Steven [again not his real name] is going camping this weekend. Why aren't you going camping?" It was no use telling him that I didn't want to go - if young Steven was going, I had to too.

I wouldn't have minded so much except for the fact that Steven Morrison was the biggest, annoyingest inverted snob ever. He had the idea that since his mother worked for my father, that made him and his family the downtrodden proletatiat, and me and my family (particularly my father, but me too) the oppressive bourgeoisie.

Not that he used those actual words (we were both only about 11), but that was the essence of what he meant. So is it any wonder I didn't want to hang out at camping and canoeing trips with up-the-workers-we'll-keep-the-red-flag-flying "Che Guevara" Morrison - a boy who openly claimed to hate my father's guts?

Looking back, I suspect what was really happening was this: Mrs. Morrison would come home in the evenings and vent off about her boss to her husband (the way most of us do when we're tired and cross) while her son was in earshot. Taking this ranting a lot more seriously than it was intended, he would feel it his duty to exact retribution on her behalf. And since my father was somewhat beyond his reach, he contented himself with spilling his "I'm a working class hero" claptrap on me.

Edited by Jamie123
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8 hours ago, JohnsonJones said:

I want my children to be as successful in the world as I see them able to become, and am disappointed when they do not accomplish that

And I think that's fair for a desire.

In this case, my brothers and I are college educated with respectable careers, married to college-educated spouses with respectable careers. Yet the problem remains... no big houses. 

Are big houses really the proof of success?

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59 minutes ago, Backroads said:

Are big houses really the proof of success?

That depends on whom you ask, I guess. Apparently, to your mom...yes.  I think she's wrong. 

Something I remind myself of from time to time is: Don't judge your success by other peoples values.

What I mean is if YOU valued a large home, you likely would have made some different choices to get you there. But that was never your goal. So look at your own goals and measure your success by that. 

I'm sorry about your mom. It is a shame that she can't just revel in who you are and your brothers too. She is limiting her own joy by her poor priorities.

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1 minute ago, Backroads said:

Frankly, Husband and I want to go be hermits in the mountains, could we get away with it. Get a little cabin...

My wife and I recently watched a couple of shows about tiny houses.  I told her that when we retire we should build a solar powered tiny house, only have a water bill and property taxes, and then spend our money on travel, missions, dining out, and all of life's luxuries :-)  If we put it on a trailer we can even take it with us when we visit the kids!  I might like having a man cave too much to actually make it happen though. :D

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1 hour ago, person0 said:

My wife and I recently watched a couple of shows about tiny houses.  I told her that when we retire we should build a solar powered tiny house, only have a water bill and property taxes, and then spend our money on travel, missions, dining out, and all of life's luxuries :-)  If we put it on a trailer we can even take it with us when we visit the kids!  I might like having a man cave too much to actually make it happen though. :D

If you want to go even further, you should read the book "Vanabode" by Jason Odom.  Instead of having a house at all, Odom advises you get a box van and turn the back into basically a mini-apartment.  I have read about vans fixed up with high power inverters capable of powering microwaves, refrigerators, plumbing and shower units, very elaborate entertainment centers, and all kinds of stuff.  

With this set-up, you can supposedly live like an absolute king on $600 per month or less.  Odom says he has been vandwelling for 20 years, supporting himself by writing about his adventures.  You can explore all of the rural America and basically stay on vacation for years at a time.  You can also "stealth camp" and explore urban America as well (though some cities frown upon vandwelling, assuming you get caught - that is the point of "stealth camping", to blend in with other cars so no one knows you are sleeping in your van).  

I also like vandwelling as an alternative to reliance on social welfare programs.  

Edited by DoctorLemon
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On 4/6/2017 at 3:09 PM, Backroads said:

So, yeah, we are offended. Do her friends really care where we live? Does she realize one of her friends is in admitted debt to buy her children the big new homes?

Is this a thing? Your children's lifestyles aren't luxurious enough you have to covet lifestyles for kids who are out of the house?

My mother never talked about houses or cars (I didn't drive, so that would be pointless), but she does talk about education and jobs. "So and so's daughter is a doctor at Georgetown. Why are you in Iowa?"  Or, "Can you believe that X left her attorney job to make candles?" (true story) and the ever popular, "Why hasn't Son-of-Dahlia finish his dissertation yet?"

When I mentioned that my DIL's brother was getting married, she wanted to know what kind of job the spouse had. Spouse is a hairdresser. You could hear the disdain in my mother's voice, as if I had said the spouse was a stripper. Or a Democrat. (OK, that would have been my disdain...) 

Everybody's got issues. I just tune 'em out.

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