College Tours

[prisonchaplain]

My daughters are starting to look at colleges. They want schools with strong liberal arts programs, and ones committed to freedom of speech and thought.  Interesting schools we visited this week:

1. Grove City College (PA): Had a rigorous Christian vibe, but is non-sectarian. Required chapel (16 per semester) averages 20 minutes (music portion is optional).  The campus felt safe and comfortable.  Room/Board/Tuition = about $26,000

2.  Hillsdale College (MI):  Had a super interesting history (abolitionists movement, first to admit ex-slaves, early to admit women), very strong liberal arts (Great Books are required learning.  Room/Board/Tuition = about $35,000, though the average student pays about half.

3.  Carnegie Mellon, they seemed selective and the knew it.  They are very proud of their graduates' successes.

Anyone have thoughts on these or other schools?

[Sunday21]

Congratulations! We are very happy for you both to have reached this milestone. Can we ask why liberal arts is a goal? Thinking of a career in law?

[Just_A_Guy]

I like Hillsdale--aren't they the guys who send out a monthly newsletter discussing American ideals, founders, etc?

It would be a hoot if your daughters took a look at BYU; though at least as of 15 years ago their English and History programs weren't particularly rigorous.

[prisonchaplain]

3 hours ago, Sunday21 said:

Congratulations! We are very happy for you both to have reached this milestone. Can we ask why liberal arts is a goal? Thinking of a career in law?

I went to Whitworth University, a liberal arts school, in Spokane, WA. The school (and it's sponsoring church, PCUSA) have veered heavily left on social issues, though).  Nevertheless, liberal arts studies (social studies, literature and composition, etc.) prepare students to research, analyze, think and communicate. Most companies will do OJT for their specializations if they can find entry-level candidates who can do those skills well.

[prisonchaplain]

3 hours ago, Just_A_Guy said:

I like Hillsdale--aren't they the guys who send out a monthly newsletter discussing American ideals, founders, etc?

It would be a hoot if your daughters took a look at BYU; though at least as of 15 years ago their English and History programs weren't particularly rigorous.

Yes, HIllsdale puts out Imprimus to about 2,000,000 people. It has free online courses in U.S. Constitution, and other subjects as well. They are broadly Christian, but non-sectarian, with no chapel required. They offer a classic and traditional college education. However, they do not accept Cambridge credits (our high school's college-bound curriculum is based on it--similar to IB), and their foreign exchange program is meager. Those are high on my oldest's list of priorities.

[prisonchaplain]

As for BYU, my oldest will look at Southwestern AG Univ., near Dallas, and Lee University (Church of God Cleveland, TN) for her denominational considerations.  Personally, unless one majors in Bible or ministry, the idea of a broadly Christian school that does not put its religion in its name could be a more marketable option in today's environment.  sigh.

[Sunday21]

20 minutes ago, prisonchaplain said:

I went to Whitworth University, a liberal arts school, in Spokane, WA. The school (and it's sponsoring church, PCUSA) have veered heavily left on social issues, though).  Nevertheless, liberal arts studies (social studies, literature and composition, etc.) prepare students to research, analyze, think and communicate. Most companies will do OJT for their specializations if they can find entry-level candidates who can do those skills well.

Perhaps this is a cultural difference? Up here the most marketable university degrees are business, engineering and math. But I have observed that a motivated and bright student with a tuned in parent often does very well. For example, teachers up here are paid well. It is almost impossible to get a job as a teacher here unless you have a specialty that is in big demand like French. Companies here do little if any ojt. 

[prisonchaplain]

@Sunday21  Engineering, Information Systems, etc. are in high demand. Also, women and minorities majoring in STEM (Science Tech Math) are recruited heavily.  Liberals Arts majors can do as well, or better, than business majors though, because they know they don't know, but the business folk think their professors were smarter than their new bosses.  As for teachers, Spec Ed, Math, Science, and foreign language teachers do better, but we are currently in a shortage cycle. Five years from now we may be at glut again.

Edited April 9, 2017 by prisonchaplain

[SilentOne]

If not BYU, how about SVU? Southern Virginia University won't sound particularly religious to anyone who doesn't already know it.

[dahlia]

20 hours ago, prisonchaplain said:

I went to Whitworth University, a liberal arts school, in Spokane, WA. The school (and it's sponsoring church, PCUSA) have veered heavily left on social issues, though).  Nevertheless, liberal arts studies (social studies, literature and composition, etc.) prepare students to research, analyze, think and communicate. Most companies will do OJT for their specializations if they can find entry-level candidates who can do those skills well.

Yes, to some degree. If your child is going to go the liberal arts route, suggest a minor in accounting, business, a science, etc. At my uni, we offer a certificate for students in Entrepreneurial Management and Nonprofit Management. They can major in anything, and get the certificate, which gives them some business background and makes them more competitive.  I used to teach management and still write a quarterly article for the Library Leadership & Management journal. A lot of liberal arts types (including my grad students) think that management is some kind of dirty word. They want to work in a nonprofit. Fine - but you still need management and basic business skills, even in a nonprofit.

College is tremendously expensive. Being able to write nice paragraph shouldn't be the only thing a liberal arts grad can do. That's why a lot of them are baristas at Starbucks.

[prisonchaplain]

@dahlia You are wise to suggest a high-demand minor (or even 2nd major). Interestingly, when my daughter asked the psychology professor who gave her a faculty consult what major goes well with Psychology he recommend Biblical Studies.  Perhaps not so practical, but my respect for him and the school sky-rocketed on that advisement. 

[wenglund]

9 hours ago, dahlia said:

If your child is going to go the liberal arts route, suggest a minor in accounting, business, a science, etc.

Good advise since it is backed by several studies: https://www.goodcall.com/news/liberal-arts-graduates-shouldnt-fret-job-prospects-theyre-skills-07781

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[JohnsonJones]

On ‎4‎/‎9‎/‎2017 at 1:58 PM, dahlia said:

Yes, to some degree. If your child is going to go the liberal arts route, suggest a minor in accounting, business, a science, etc. At my uni, we offer a certificate for students in Entrepreneurial Management and Nonprofit Management. They can major in anything, and get the certificate, which gives them some business background and makes them more competitive.  I used to teach management and still write a quarterly article for the Library Leadership & Management journal. A lot of liberal arts types (including my grad students) think that management is some kind of dirty word. They want to work in a nonprofit. Fine - but you still need management and basic business skills, even in a nonprofit.

College is tremendously expensive. Being able to write nice paragraph shouldn't be the only thing a liberal arts grad can do. That's why a lot of them are baristas at Starbucks.

How much do baristas at Starbucks make I wonder.  I imagine one getting tips in San Francisco or New York could be making bank compared to some other professions.  Probably more fun too!

Of course, the discussion isn't really on that.  It seems that for bachelor degrees, unless you want to work retail or management in sales or retail arenas (which are dying in some places) you want a degree in either something you'll get your doctorate in, something that can lead to a doctorate (such as law or medical school) or something practical in the US today (so engineering, education, nursing, Physician's assistant, etc).

Then again, the closest I got to a Liberal Arts Degree is my history degree...soo....

Edited April 11, 2017 by JohnsonJones
comment wasn't useful to discussion, so added some more