Drawing the Line With Dad

[unixknight]

On 6/12/2017 at 10:42 AM, Just_A_Guy said:

Just playing devil's advocate for a moment - I presume your father was fairly compensated when he gave the vehicle to your son?

The history of that car is somewhat complex.  My dad bought it new in 1996 and when he retired and moved to Ecuador he left it with me so that he would have a car to drive whenever he came to visit.  Of course that meant that I had to pay all of the costs associated with it, like tag renewal, inspections, etc.  He said we were free to drive it but always complained when he got back and saw mileage, but would also complain if we did not put miles on it, the idea being that sitting idle was bad for it.  (At one point it sat in my mother's garage for a year.)  This went on for a few years until it was no longer possible for me to keep the registration current without it being in my name.  So my dad signed it over to me in order for me to be able to do all the legal stuff with it.

After a couple more years, my son needed a vehicle so he asked my dad if he could have the car and my dad agreed, provided that he would take good care of it and make it available when my dad came to the U.S. to visit.  That has been the arrangement ever since and it was working fine until the stroke. 

So at this point the question of compensation is hazy at best.  No, my son never gave my dad any money for the car, but he has performed all the repairs and maintenance on it for years, and that's not insignificant considering the age of the car.  (I know that doesn't entitle him to ownership, just pointing it out.)  I've been covering all of the legal expenses like registration and inspections for over 10 years now.  On paper, the car belongs to me but I don't feel like it's mine in any meaningful way and I don't want to.  It's only mine on paper so I could handle the MVA.  My son had approached my dad not long before the stroke to ask for the car in a more formal way, and my understanding is that my dad agreed to give it to him, in exchange for being able to use it when he's in the country. 

So that's the sticking point.  In everyone's mind the car belongs to my son.  On paper it belongs to me.  My dad had a reasonable expectation of having access to it if he wants it, but the stroke changed the calculus on that, as far as I'm concerned, whether it has to my dad or not.

[Just_A_Guy]

1 hour ago, unixknight said:

The history of that car is somewhat complex.  My dad bought it new in 1996 and when he retired and moved to Ecuador he left it with me so that he would have a car to drive whenever he came to visit.  Of course that meant that I had to pay all of the costs associated with it, like tag renewal, inspections, etc.  He said we were free to drive it but always complained when he got back and saw mileage, but would also complain if we did not put miles on it, the idea being that sitting idle was bad for it.  (At one point it sat in my mother's garage for a year.)  This went on for a few years until it was no longer possible for me to keep the registration current without it being in my name.  So my dad signed it over to me in order for me to be able to do all the legal stuff with it.

After a couple more years, my son needed a vehicle so he asked my dad if he could have the car and my dad agreed, provided that he would take good care of it and make it available when my dad came to the U.S. to visit.  That has been the arrangement ever since and it was working fine until the stroke. 

So at this point the question of compensation is hazy at best.  No, my son never gave my dad any money for the car, but he has performed all the repairs and maintenance on it for years, and that's not insignificant considering the age of the car.  (I know that doesn't entitle him to ownership, just pointing it out.)  I've been covering all of the legal expenses like registration and inspections for over 10 years now.  On paper, the car belongs to me but I don't feel like it's mine in any meaningful way and I don't want to.  It's only mine on paper so I could handle the MVA.  My son had approached my dad not long before the stroke to ask for the car in a more formal way, and my understanding is that my dad agreed to give it to him, in exchange for being able to use it when he's in the country. 

So that's the sticking point.  In everyone's mind the car belongs to my son.  On paper it belongs to me.  My dad had a reasonable expectation of having access to it if he wants it, but the stroke changed the calculus on that, as far as I'm concerned, whether it has to my dad or not.

That's a ticklish one.  It can't be worth an exhorbitant amount at this point--what if you took the blue book value of the car and made an advance payment to an extended-stay motel in your dad's name?

[unixknight]

3 hours ago, Just_A_Guy said:

That's a ticklish one.  It can't be worth an exhorbitant amount at this point--what if you took the blue book value of the car and made an advance payment to an extended-stay motel in your dad's name?

There's no issue in terms of housing.  He's gone off to stay with other relatives who are near the hospital where he wants to get that surgery done.  He already has plans to return to Ecuador at the end of October.  He also seems to have backed off from wanting to drive, most likely due to the influence of my stepmother, who I suspect sees it the same way I do.