Crisis of Faith - Dear John Letters

[estradling75]

Relationship take work... Long-distance relationship take even more work.

The church councils that missionaries devote all their hearts and minds to the mission that they are serving.

One would think that many people would take those two facts and put them together and conclude that Full-time Missionary service and Long-distance romantic relationships are unlikely to work together. All the Dear John Stories should reinforce this idea.  Putting it right in front of them to consider.  Yet all the Dear John Stories show that there are no end to people that will think, hope, pray that they are the exception.  And generally they excuse themselves with the idea that "Well the church does not explicitly say that you should not."  Totally forgetting the idea that "He that is commanded in all things is a slothful and unwise servant"

When such a missionary gets Dear John'd we don't rebuke them for their foolishness any more then we rebuke the person who did not wait as promised.  Neither one of them performed to the high standard the church had set.  Both of them are expected to pick themselves up, and learn from their experiences so they can do better.

[mordorbund]

1 hour ago, Just_A_Guy said:

But frankly, it's going to be a cold day in Hades before the LDS Church starts punishing a woman for declining to enter into a marriage to a man she no longer wishes to marry.  The implications of such a regimen are just too fraught in 21st century western society.  Nor is it going to get into the business of apportioning "fault" for breakups (I mean, we don't even do that for divorces!)

No! certainly not the Church. I think we can let the free market handle this until there are laws and regulations demarcating relationship milestones and proper transitions. Which reminds me, with your family law background, how would you like to get in on a new but related field?

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, mordorbund said:

a new but related field?

Did you come up with that all on your own?  That was genius!

[Just_A_Guy]

27 minutes ago, mordorbund said:

No! certainly not the Church. I think we can let the free market handle this until there are laws and regulations demarcating relationship milestones and proper transitions. Which reminds me, with your family law background, how would you like to get in on a new but related field?

It's cute that you think we haven't thought of that.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breach_of_promise

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

It's cute that you think we haven't thought of that.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breach_of_promise

[mordorbund]

31 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

Did you come up with that all on your own?  That was genius!

Well, yes. Back when I was young and had a full head of hair, I would try to convince my girlfriend that we had a pre-dumptual agreement. I would just normalize it in a propaganda way and wait for it to stick.

her: don't ever leave me, I'd miss your cuddles.
me: even if I did leave you, the pre-dumptual agreement stipulates that you maintain cuddle rights for 6 months or until you started a new relationship, whichever happens first.
her: ...
me: of course the reverse is true if you left me.
her: stop ruining things with crazy talk

For some reason it didn't work.

My propaganda machine has worked with my wife (maybe it just takes years to work) and arranged marriages.

her: I talked to Sister Person today. Brother Person needs you to come over and help with [whatever].
me: Which one's that?
her: They're the ones with [some identifying facts].
me: ....?
her: You know, [some other identifying fact]
me: ...?
her: It doesn't matter, we like them. Their kids can marry our kids.

[Latter-Day Marriage]

6 hours ago, Carborendum said:

NOTE: the girlfriend actually had every intention of waiting and marrying him when he got back.  But her parents absolutely hated him.  So, they pressured her into marrying another guy who was a complete loser.  She's not very happy.  I'm not sure if they're now divorced or not.

That is really sad.  Parents need to know when to back off, and kids need to stand up to their parents at times.

 

[Latter-Day Marriage]

5 hours ago, estradling75 said:

Relationship take work... Long-distance relationship take even more work.

The church councils that missionaries devote all their hearts and minds to the mission that they are serving.

One would think that many people would take those two facts and put them together and conclude that Full-time Missionary service and Long-distance romantic relationships are unlikely to work together. All the Dear John Stories should reinforce this idea.  Putting it right in front of them to consider.  Yet all the Dear John Stories show that there are no end to people that will think, hope, pray that they are the exception.  And generally they excuse themselves with the idea that "Well the church does not explicitly say that you should not."  Totally forgetting the idea that "He that is commanded in all things is a slothful and unwise servant"

When such a missionary gets Dear John'd we don't rebuke them for their foolishness any more then we rebuke the person who did not wait as promised.  Neither one of them performed to the high standard the church had set.  Both of them are expected to pick themselves up, and learn from their experiences so they can do better.

One of the reasons we are not commanded in all things is because in a lot of situations It isn't one size fits all.  I met my wife when we were teenagers and I was literally told that night that she was the one.  Having her wait for me didn't negatively impact my service at all, in fact she was just one more reason to do my very best and her encouragement and support helped me a lot.  When she gets home in a bit we'll be celebrating our 28th anniversary.  I know that she and I are an exception to the rule, but people have to do what they feel is right in such matters and if that means learning the hard way they are not an exception, well that is part of why we are here.

[estradling75]

2 hours ago, Latter-Day Marriage said:

One of the reasons we are not commanded in all things is because in a lot of situations It isn't one size fits all.  I met my wife when we were teenagers and I was literally told that night that she was the one.  Having her wait for me didn't negatively impact my service at all, in fact she was just one more reason to do my very best and her encouragement and support helped me a lot.  When she gets home in a bit we'll be celebrating our 28th anniversary.  I know that she and I are an exception to the rule, but people have to do what they feel is right in such matters and if that means learning the hard way they are not an exception, well that is part of why we are here.

And you would be one of the rare exceptions.  The whole reason there is a Dear John "culture" is that is the most common result... Sadly to many think they are an exception when they are not.

 

[Latter-Day Marriage]

15 hours ago, estradling75 said:

And you would be one of the rare exceptions.  The whole reason there is a Dear John "culture" is that is the most common result... Sadly to many think they are an exception when they are not.

 

Agreed, but because there are exceptions, you can't make it a hard and fast rule. I've known other couples where she waited and they married after.  Mitt Romney and some GA's have stories like that too.  What I've heard is 90% of missionaries with a girlfriend get dear johned, so 10% don't.

Edited April 22, 2017 by Latter-Day Marriage

[Latter-Day Marriage]

1 hour ago, changed said:

somewhat related to dear John - what about a spouse who dies?  should the spouse left behind wait until heaven, or should they remarry?  

That is something a couple should discuss and agree on.  Again I don't think it is a one size fits all.  Different people will feel differently about the same actions.  A widdow who was sealed to her husband would have to have that sealing released before she can be sealed to another man.  She could still get a civil marriage however.  A man who has his wife die is able to be sealed to another without canceling the first.  In both cases I think the living spouse should take the feelings of their first spouse into consideration if they intend to be together in the eternities.

[estradling75]

10 minutes ago, Latter-Day Marriage said:

Agreed, but because there are exceptions, you can't make it a hard and fast rule. I've known other couples where she waited and they married after.  Mitt Romney and some GA's have stories like that too.  What I've heard is 90% of missionaries with a girlfriend get dear johned, so 10% don't.

I am aware...  I am not the one asking for the church to make a hard and fast rule on the matter either.

[eddified]

4 hours ago, changed said:

somewhat related to dear John - what about a spouse who dies?  should the spouse left behind wait until heaven, or should they remarry?  

I frankly told my wife that she should remarry if I died. My kids need a father (that's just one reason). 

[Jamie123]

On 4/18/2017 at 11:02 AM, Vort said:

It may be immature, it may be inconvenient, it may be inconsiderate. But it is not immoral.

It depends what you mean by "immoral". Is it immoral of me to:

• Take the last chocolate biscuit when I've already had five, and some people haven't had any?
• Remain seated on the train when there's an old lady right next to me standing?
• Not call my mother on her birthday (not because I've forgotten, but because I simply can't be bothered)?
• Leave toenail clippings on the bedroom carpet for my wife to clear up?
• Pull ugly faces and make rude gestures at BMW drivers, despite the fact that I know it gives my wife palpitations?

Well yes and no. These aren't the sort of things you see on lists of "grave sins", but I still think they're still things Christians should at least try to avoid. (It's hard to imagine Jesus "flipping the bird" to a BMW driver, however obnoxious, and however badly he cut him up at the roundabout.)

I do kind of agree though - getting engaged to someone you're not going to see for another 2 years is a recipe for disaster. (It's not even like the military where you get leave once in a while.) Anyone older than 25 would expect the "Dear John" sooner or later: but these are kids...they think their love-for-the-very-first-time will last for ever however long the separation. Experience, as Vort says, is a cruel teacher - but of course you learn.

But bugs me most though is the way this couple flaunted their new relationship straight away. They didn't even leave a respectful few weeks gap. Was that immoral? Well again, yes and no. It certainly wasn't Christlike. And for the OP, who obviously cares about this young man, it had got to be distressing.

[Fether]

Is this thread still going???

[Fether]

4 minutes ago, Armin said:

Your wish may come true:

"Dear John, I miss you all the time. I see the stars up in the sky, and one of them I can't deny. So precious and so true, the love from me to you. The angels sing when you are near, within your arm there is no fear. I love you, honey, with all my heart, forever and ever and never to part. Love, Suzanne."

What?

[Latter-Day Marriage]

5 hours ago, Armin said:

I mean, why not a positive "Dear John" letter...?

If a guy's first name is John, every letter is a Dear John letter.

[Jamie123]

18 hours ago, Armin said:

Just to make me sure, if the first name is Rudolf (I mean Rudolf the reindeer), every letter is a Deer Rudolf letter. Right?

 

Why not a "Dear Sarah" letter for when a woman (called Sarah) gets dumped?

 

[Latter-Day Marriage]

12 hours ago, Jamie123 said:

Why not a "Dear Sarah" letter for when a woman (called Sarah) gets dumped?

 

I believe the generic term would be a 'Dear Jane' letter.

Anyway, I'll see your Sarah and raise you a Weird Al...

 

[Jamie123]

9 hours ago, Latter-Day Marriage said:

I believe the generic term would be a 'Dear Jane' letter.

Anyway, I'll see your Sarah and raise you a Weird Al...

Nothing whatsoever to do with this thread, but...

At least the surviving elves found new employment

[Jamie123]

16 hours ago, Armin said:

Will you write her? Don't wait too long. I guess she lives on your island...?

I told her last Sunday. She didn't take it well!

[Jamie123]

1 hour ago, Armin said:

does the announcer at the beginning of the video really call her "William Blake's inspired puppin"...?

I think he says "poem".

That announcer by the way is Aled Jones, who was first famous as a boy soprano back in the 1980s. A lot of people will tell you (with an annoyingly knowledgeably air) that he sang the song "Walking in the Air" in the movie "The Snowman". No he didn't. That was Peter Auty.

Aled Jones did later release the same song as a single, but that was NOT his voice in the movie!

Got it?

Also I want to hear no more nonsense about Dick Dastardly being the villain in "The Perils of Penelope Pitstop". That was Sylvester Sneekly, alias "The Hooded Claw". Dick Dastardly was never even in that show, and if (like my annoying brother) you "distinctly remember" that he was, then you "distinctly remember" wrong. You're probably getting muddled up with "The Wacky Races".

Anyway, back to Aled Jones...

I grant you he did sing the opening song in "Santa Claus the Movie" (the one with the late Dudley Moor, and John Lithgow as the bad-guy): "Every Christmas Eve we are part of a miracle..." etc.

 

Edited May 5, 2017 by Jamie123

[Jamie123]

10 minutes ago, Armin said:

Oh, indeed? He should work on his pronunciation.

Well he is Welsh!

10 minutes ago, Armin said:

Send me some wonderful girls like those wonderful videos I've sent here, ungrateful English.

OK...

 

[Rabindranath]

I know LostBoy is gone, but I have to say I second much of what he has said. It behooves us all to respect our fellow man, and to do our best to be respectful to each other 

Mormon Culture, let's remember, is not the Doctrine - and we would be better off if we cast Mormon Culture aside so we could live the Doctrine more fully. How ironic is it that so many of the contributors to this thread condone a significant other leaving dishonestly with not a care in the world for repercussions of the other party, and yet when that same thing happens to LostBoy over the course of the thread, they cry foul to the girl who left him! If they were being consistent, they would applaud her, would they not? They would applaud her for not being an "object" or whatever garbage philosophy some have mingled incorrectly with the true religion. If nothing else, this thread has exposed the hypocrisy of Mormon Culture.

Which ideal do you people believe? That there is virtue in leaving a significant other at the slightest provocation? That as long as you are not hurt, you may hurt a thousand in your path if it may even lead to the small hope of an eternal marriage? Or do you believe that it in fact is very wrong to not discuss things like adults, and work out problems to their proper conclusion together - whether that be to the extension or termination of their romantic relationship? It surprises me that there is more harshness, rudeness, and callousness on this thread than on many other sites. If this was Quora, many of your would be facing BNBR (Be Nice Be Respectful) violations. Not even the majority of sub-reddits have this level of antagonism - the type of attacking on this thread against LostBoy is uncalled for, especially as he confessed he was already losing faith in the membership of the church, and their dismissiveness of the feelings of others - and here you all are, ready to confirm that for him that it's true: they don't. It was as if a part of your own being was threatened that you had to lash out against him, and find fault with every word he said, not understanding that he comes from a different place.

He comes from a much higher moral ground than most of you. He, in principle, in cognizant of the feelings of those around him, and in principle, does not wish to cause anyone unnecessary pain. The same cannot be said of you - especially the user with a raspberry blowing CareBear for the profile image, or the lightsaber wielding avatar user - I can't be bothered to look up her/his name, jumping down his throat and immediately assuming the worst about the man. How you see the world is a reflection of yourself. You first saw LostBoy as an "evil" person, with malicious intent. I wonder: what does that say about you? Perhaps you project yourself upon him, and your antagonism proves this to be true: you are a malicious person, Miss CareBear Lady. You, Dark Jedi, are an inciter of conflict and a desirer of discord. The two of you are not espousing the Doctrine, but rather spouting off based on pure hubris and self aggrandization. You will have your reward in the end. Those like you will have no part in the millennium, for those who have even a modicum of hatred within them, where you have mounds of, and loads of judgment within you, cannot live in a perfect world. Go join Lucifer, for he craves those like you in his ranks, and perhaps you will be more at home there anyway.

 

If there is nothing more poisonous to the True Religion, nothing more toxic to the Mormon Doctrine, it is the Mormon Culture that has so pervaded the church, and it must be stamped out and desecrated in order for the Mormon Doctrine to function uninhibited, for the Culture is propagated by evil people, and the Doctrine by the good. The evidence being in this thread, if you wish to read it.

[Jamie123]

This is Sylvester Sneekly:

This is Sylvester Sneekly in his Hooded Claw getup:

 

And this, ladies and gentlemen is Dick Dastardly:

I think I've made my point!

(OK I've got it out of my system now...I think!)

OK just one more picture: Dum Dum from the Ant Hill Mob:

(Posted just because I'm bored.)

Edited May 5, 2017 by Jamie123