New Thread for Runewell

[runewell]

2 minutes ago, person0 said:

Once you know the Book of Mormon is true by the power of the Holy Ghost, as I do, then it does not matter if the Pearl of Great Price is a literal translation or a revealed translation, and many other issues become irrelevant.  

In other words, feelings preempt truth.

[mordorbund]

20 minutes ago, runewell said:

The Book of Mormon (or one of the associated volumes) has undergone multiple changes (at least 3,913!) over the years.  From that standpoint you argue that it was not translated correctly.

 

@anatess2 has been arguing that The Book of Mormon was not translated correctly?

[Anddenex]

26 minutes ago, runewell said:

In other words, feelings preempt truth.

This statement, and the one given above this quoted statement, is where you quickly loose the interest of members seeking to help you and to clarify. This statements allow forum members to gain more understanding of the intent of the heart, or the motivation to understand.

As you are an intelligent person, you will need to take more time regarding the 3,913 changes to the Book of Mormon (to be frank, you are drinking the koolaid of anti-Mormon literature without thinking through the content). There is only one volume of the Book of Mormon. Please review person0's comment again. He is clear in stating the Book of Mormon has not gone through a period of "apostasy" during corrections. To retort with the comment given shows intentional ignorance rather than a person trying to understand.

Person0 did not hint nor condone that "feelings preempt truth." This is a personally implied attempt that anti-Mormons take to twist what someone actually said. Let's review what he actually said in comparison to an unfortunate knee jerk response, "Once you know the Book of Mormon is true by the power of the Holy Ghost, as I do..."  Truth is revealed by the Spirit of revelation and prophecy, by the power of the Holy Ghost. The Holy Ghost is truth, as God is truth, the Holy Ghost doesn't preempt truth -- he confirms it. There was no Bible when Adam walked the earth, how then was truth revealed? By the power of the Holy Ghost. There was no Bible when Noah, Moses or even Jesus himself when they walked the earth. How was truth then revealed to Moses and Noah? The same principle of teaching and learning applies in our day. This really isn't a hard concept to follow, if a person is humble, and you don't even have to agree or accept, but to throw out silly responses in an attempt to twist what someone actually said, ya, just a little obtuse.

Edited April 20, 2017 by Anddenex

[mordorbund]

19 minutes ago, runewell said:

In other words, feelings preempt truth.

Who said anything about feelings?

[person0]

4 minutes ago, runewell said:

In other words, feelings preempt truth.

So every once in a while I start thinking you are sincerely trying to understand what we believe, but then you say something completely irrational to the Christian mindset of nearly all denominations, and it once again leads us back to the fact that you have malintent in this forum.

Quote

Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.  (1 Cor. 12:3)

But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. (John 14:26)

For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord.  For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts. (Isa. 55:8-9)

It is only by the Spirit that you can know that Jesus is the Christ.  The Holy Ghost is able to teach all things.  If you do not acknowledge that the Holy Ghost bears witness of the real truth, and that God's ways are not our ways, then there is no point in discussing with you any further.  Since per your statement, it appears you choose to hold to earthly and temporal truth more than to the truth as revealed by God to each individual through His Holy Ghost, then we are at an impasse.  There is no point in debating or discussing with someone who denies the power of God.  Good day to you.

[Vort]

3 hours ago, runewell said:

It did say that some denominations think of themselves as the true church and that's probably where you fit in, but if try to generalize you'll probably just generate confusion here.

On an LDS board?

[Vort]

3 hours ago, runewell said:

And why do you get so defensive?

I'm not defensive. I'm tired of people like you telling people like me what we believe.

[JohnsonJones]

11 hours ago, runewell said:

Yes, but that doesn't mean the translations were done correctly.  In fact, one of the books is known to be translated incorrectly.

Having seen the actual facsimile's (which is something 99.9% of those making this claim have not), or at least what we have left of them, I disagree with that.

There are some things that are obvious (for example, Josephs studying it out in his mind made symbols and ideas of what they might mean, but that is not the actual translation and doesn't follow the translation he actually made in any way or form) which they typically blatantly ignore and try to state it was used or came about in a very different way then it was.

It is like stating the Koran is Mohammad's translation of the Old Testament (also, untrue).

However, the actual parallels and translations between what is found in the Books (breathings/dead) is an interesting topic, but not one I'm really interested in discussing on this forum or under theses auspices.  More over, much as non-Christians would not accept that Babylonian myth, Egyptian myth, and others are taken from Hebraic theology rather than vice versa, the same would probably apply if discussing this item.

In that light, though I disagree with your opinion, and my opinion differs, we probably should stick to the topic at hand.

[JohnsonJones]

10 hours ago, runewell said:

In other words, feelings preempt truth.

That's an interesting statement.  I think this is actually true in some instances.  We KNOW people of all faith believe that their religion is the true and correct way.  They largely believe this is true not from scientific evidence (of which, even in regards to the Bible, when done by those who are unbiased, shows a large scientific evidence of being mythological rather than reality), but from something else.  (For Mormons, the same would also apply to the Book of Mormon for example).

Is it possible then that the Muslims have their feelings preempt truth?  Yes...it is.

In that light, is it possible that some Christians are relying more on feelings rather than the truth of the Bible?  Yes...it is.

And finally, in that light, it is possible that some Mormons are also relying more on what they feel is true, rather than any revelation from the Lord or any truth in that light.

So, then, how does one know what is true and what is not true.  If you were to approach a Muslim and say...what I believe is true and what you do not is untrue...how do you prove this?

Is it simply going to be that you say your Bible is more correct than their Hadith and Koran?  Do we think most of them will accept this (I would postulate that a majority would not, especially considering they did not convert to Christianity today, nor after decades of foreign influence on their nations where undoubtedly many conversations like this occurred).

The Baptist believe there is a way that one can know of this truth far more than just feelings.  There is a literal change within oneself.  This takes steps, one must FIRST accept the Lord and his grace.  If this is done, then a change of heart, a literal change, where the attitude and way of being are literally changed, can occur.  One can literally KNOW they are saved by grace, rather than just hoping or thinking.

Mormons feel something like this can also occur, but not so drastic.  They feel that the Holy Ghost can come down and testify to each individual the truth of the Gospel.  It may be a feeling that ONLY the Holy Ghost can truly impart (so, no, it's not like last nights indigestion, or some other feeling we may feel on our own).  It also can come as an actual voice that comes with peace and love (rather than how a voice of the enemy or adversary would come) and with that voice, feelings of joy.

This, in some ways, is similar to the Pentecostal idea that the spirit can come and manifest itself (though with them, they feel it manifests itself in the form of spiritual gifts such as that of tongues and healing in their meetings).  However, unlike the Pentecostals, the Mormon idea is of one that is far more gentle and does not reveal itself to others in outward manifestations unless their is a distinct purpose to it.

In this way, different faiths teach on how one can KNOW something.  It is not just a simple feeling one has, but something far more and meaningful.

Edited April 21, 2017 by JohnsonJones

[anatess2]

18 hours ago, runewell said:

The Book of Mormon (or one of the associated volumes) has undergone multiple changes (at least 3,913!) over the years.  From that standpoint you argue that it was not translated correctly.

 

I'm going to assume you made a mistake in that sentence and you actually meant "From that standpoint you argue that IT WAS translated correctly".

Yes.  All corrections to the Book of Mormon (for example, the correction made to "whatever" that was found on the printer facsimile that was actually "whatsoever" in the original text, etc.) were all done under the authority of the Church.

So, say, some guy decides he wants to create his own Mormon Church, takes the Book of Mormon and changes several lines in it, even takes out the 3rd Book of Nephi adds the Book of Runewell, etc.. that book is not anymore the Book of Mormon translated correctly as it is not a book made under the authority of the Church.

Do you understand what I'm saying?

Edited April 21, 2017 by anatess2

[anatess2]

@runewell, if I may inquire... are you a member of any religious denomination?  If so, which one?  If not, what's your belief system?

[wenglund]

19 hours ago, runewell said:

In other words, feelings preempt truth.

Is it your belief that the Holy Ghost is a "feeling" that preempts truth? I ask because I have no idea where you came up with this.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[wenglund]

On 4/19/2017 at 0:51 PM, runewell said:

OK, let's suppose we get past this initial stage.  We repent of our sins and accept Christ's forgiveness.  Christ did all the work, we are essentially flipping on a switch, allowing it to happen.  You say it is works, I say it isn't, in either case it needs to happen.

Now what is required of us beyond that step? 

So, you view salvation as event rather than a process (a gate rather than a path), and you agree that "works" (such as repentance) are needed prior to the event. Correct? In other words, you believe that "works" are necessary in order for you to experience the event of salvation?

if so, what is it that you believe you are being saved from when that event occurs? And, do you believe once the event occurs, it is permanent (i.e. an eternal state)?

Finally, how do you know when, or that, the event has occurred? 

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[runewell]

On 4/21/2017 at 11:02 AM, wenglund said:

So, you view salvation as event rather than a process (a gate rather than a path), and you agree that "works" (such as repentance) are needed prior to the event. Correct? In other words, you believe that "works" are necessary in order for you to experience the event of salvation?

if so, what is it that you believe you are being saved from when that event occurs? And, do you believe once the event occurs, it is permanent (i.e. an eternal state)?

Finally, how do you know when, or that, the event has occurred? 

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Yes salvation is an event.  Repentance is a pre-requisite yet not considered "works".  But apart from this one "work" nothing else is necessary.  You can die five minutes later (like the criminal on the cross) and enjoy the fullness of Heaven.  LDS seem to believe that some combination of works and worthiness will get them into a higher kingdom.  In Christianity there is only one kingdom, doing God's work is of course our goal, and we recognize that we are in fact not worthy of anything at all.  The fact that Jesus comes into the equation is not because we need that extra bump but because we are hopelessly lost without Him.

After the event has occurred, you will see things differently.  I can't speak for everyone but before that event you are spiritually dead and afterwards you are spiritually alive.  It becomes possible to commune with God.  Your desires change.  No fear of death.  It is a big change but it's not like you get hit with a lightning bolt.  It is a very inward change.  The event is more or less permanent but that is another can of worms.

[runewell]

On 4/21/2017 at 9:34 AM, anatess2 said:

I'm going to assume you made a mistake in that sentence and you actually meant "From that standpoint you argue that IT WAS translated correctly".

Yes.  All corrections to the Book of Mormon (for example, the correction made to "whatever" that was found on the printer facsimile that was actually "whatsoever" in the original text, etc.) were all done under the authority of the Church.

So, say, some guy decides he wants to create his own Mormon Church, takes the Book of Mormon and changes several lines in it, even takes out the 3rd Book of Nephi adds the Book of Runewell, etc.. that book is not anymore the Book of Mormon translated correctly as it is not a book made under the authority of the Church.

Do you understand what I'm saying?

NO, from that standpoint the Book of Mormon was NOT "translated" correctly.

Original Biblical text from thousands of years ago exist today.  The LDS would like to say "we believe the Bible to the extent it has been translated correctly" in order to give priority to their book.  But you can go back to the original text and decide for yourself what is there.  For example, "Today I will be with you in paradise" (Luke 23:43).  The definition of paradise isn't 100% clear.  Thankfully then, they just wrote "paradise" which is identical the greek root word.  LDS can claim that it means "spirit prison" but then they are reading into that word.  But the original greek word looks like paradise.  The original writing has not changed.

Now go to the Book of Mormon.  Joseph Smith claimed that what he wrote down was correct.  So why does the LDS church have any authority to change it?  It should have been correct in the first place, and should not be undergoing constant revision.  Even the first vision has multiple versions.  Below are four examples of changes.  

http://www.utlm.org/onlinebooks/3913intro.htm

It is one thing to understand the meaning of a word.  It is another thing entirely for words and phrases to be inserted and changed.  Your scriptures are unreliable.  

The changes made in the Book of Mormon and in Joseph Smith's revelations have apparently caused the Mormon Church leaders some concern, for they fear that their people will find out about them. A few years ago the Mormon leaders allowed one of their members, Wilford Wood, to reproduce (by the photo-offset method) the first edition of the Book of Mormon (under the title of Joseph Smith Begins His Work, Vol. 1) and the Book of Commandments and first edition of the Doctrine and Covenants (under the title of Joseph Smith Begins His Work, Vol. 2). The Deseret Press, which is owned by the Mormon Church, did the printing, and the Deseret Book Store, which is also owned by the church, sold them. Since Mr. Wood's reprints did not tell that the revelations and the Book of Mormon had been changed, the church leaders evidently felt that they were safe as long as members of the church did not compare them with present editions. It appears, however, that members of the church did compare the books and found that many changes had been made. On October 9, 1964, a man reported to us that the Deseret Book Store had refused to sell him copies of Joseph Smith Begins His Work, Volumes 1 and 2. On October 10, 1964, Sandra Tanner went to the Deseret Book Store and asked the clerk concerning these books. The clerk, supposing she was a Mormon, said, "President David O. McKay won't let us sell that anymore." The clerk went on to say, "We've had several people leave the Church because of those books. The priests and ministers of the other churches are using these books to confuse people. Because of the confusion we can't sell them any more. President McKay has taken them out of circulation."

What kind of religion prevents their followers from seeing the original text?!? 

 

Quote

 

In the first edition we read as follows:

"... These last records ... shall make known to all kindreds, tongues, and people, that the Lamb of God is the Eternal Father and the Savior ... " (Book of Mormon, 1830 edition, page 32)

In the 1964 edition it reads as follows:

"... These last records ... shall make known to all kindreds, tongues, and people, that the Lamb of God is the Son of the Eternal Father, and the Savior ..." (Book of Mormon, 1964 edition, 1 Nephi 13:40)

 

 

 

 

Quote

 

In Mosiah 21:28 the name of the king has been changed from Benjamin to Mosiah. In the 1830 edition of the Book of Mormon we read as follows:

"... king Benjamin had a gift from God, whereby he could interpret such engravings ..." (Book of Mormon, 1830 edition, page 200)

In modern editions of the Book of Mormon this verse has been changed to read:

"... king Mosiah had a gift from God, whereby he could interpret such engravings ..." (Book of Mormon, 1964 edition, Mosiah 21:28)

 

 

 

 

 

Quote

 

A change has been made in the First Book of Nephi, evidently in an attempt to strengthen the Mormon claim that baptism was practiced by the people in the Old Testament. This verse is taken from Isaiah 48, and appears as follows in the 1830 edition of the Book of Mormon:

"Hearken and hear this, O house of Jacob, which are called by the name of Israel, and are come forth out of the waters of Judah, which swear by the name of the Lord ... " (Book of Mormon, 1830 edition, page 52)

In modern editions it reads as follows:

"Hearken and hear this, O house of Jacob, who are called by the name of Israel, and are come forth out of the waters of Judah, or out of the waters of baptism, who swear by the name of the Lord ... " (Book of Mormon, 1964 edition, 1 Nephi 20:1)

 

 

 

 

Quote

 

It is interesting to note that even the signed statement by the eight witnesses to the Book of Mormon has been altered. In the 1830 edition (last page) it read:

"... that Joseph Smith, Jr. the Author and Proprietor of this work, has shewn unto us the plates ... "

In the 1964 edition it reads:

"... That Joseph Smith, Jun., the Translator of this work, has shown unto us the plates 

 

 

 

Edited April 24, 2017 by runewell

[anatess2]

1 hour ago, runewell said:

NO, from that standpoint the Book of Mormon was NOT "translated" correctly.

Original Biblical text from thousands of years ago exist today.  The LDS would like to say "we believe the Bible to the extent it has been translated correctly" in order to give priority to their book.  But you can go back to the original text and decide for yourself what is there.  For example, "Today I will be with you in paradise" (Luke 23:43).  The definition of paradise isn't 100% clear.  Thankfully then, they just wrote "paradise" which is identical the greek root word.  LDS can claim that it means "spirit prison" but then they are reading into that word.  But the original greek word looks like paradise.  The original writing has not changed.

Now go to the Book of Mormon.  Joseph Smith claimed that what he wrote down was correct.  So why does the LDS church have any authority to change it?  It should have been correct in the first place, and should not be undergoing constant revision.  Even the first vision has multiple versions.  Below are four examples of changes.  

http://www.utlm.org/onlinebooks/3913intro.htm

It is one thing to understand the meaning of a word.  It is another thing entirely for words and phrases to be inserted and changed.  Your scriptures are unreliable.  

The changes made in the Book of Mormon and in Joseph Smith's revelations have apparently caused the Mormon Church leaders some concern, for they fear that their people will find out about them. A few years ago the Mormon leaders allowed one of their members, Wilford Wood, to reproduce (by the photo-offset method) the first edition of the Book of Mormon (under the title of Joseph Smith Begins His Work, Vol. 1) and the Book of Commandments and first edition of the Doctrine and Covenants (under the title of Joseph Smith Begins His Work, Vol. 2). The Deseret Press, which is owned by the Mormon Church, did the printing, and the Deseret Book Store, which is also owned by the church, sold them. Since Mr. Wood's reprints did not tell that the revelations and the Book of Mormon had been changed, the church leaders evidently felt that they were safe as long as members of the church did not compare them with present editions. It appears, however, that members of the church did compare the books and found that many changes had been made. On October 9, 1964, a man reported to us that the Deseret Book Store had refused to sell him copies of Joseph Smith Begins His Work, Volumes 1 and 2. On October 10, 1964, Sandra Tanner went to the Deseret Book Store and asked the clerk concerning these books. The clerk, supposing she was a Mormon, said, "President David O. McKay won't let us sell that anymore." The clerk went on to say, "We've had several people leave the Church because of those books. The priests and ministers of the other churches are using these books to confuse people. Because of the confusion we can't sell them any more. President McKay has taken them out of circulation."

What kind of religion prevents their followers from seeing the original text?!? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes.  Because, Joseph Smith (and the prophets after him) did not go to "The Ancient Greek Dictionary" or "The History of Biblical Word Permutations" or "The Scholarship of Biblical Studies" to glean the meaning of what is written in the Bible.  Rather, they get their interpretation of what got preserved and compiled by the early Christian church (which was in a period of apostasy) straight from the inspiration of the Holy Ghost.  Remember, Joseph Smith was only a lad of 12 years old - a farm boy at that without much exposure to scholarship, when he was given the task of the restoration.  There is a reason God chose a juvenile farm boy instead of the expert Theologian to do this work.

Now, of course, you can argue that your Holy Ghost is more authoritative than our Holy Ghost.  This would not be a discussion on translations anymore.  Rather, this would be a discussion on Authority.  The question would then be... which Christian Church has the proper Authority to dispense the Gospel of Jesus Christ?  Not, which translation provides a "better reading" of biblical text.

Edited April 24, 2017 by anatess2

[anatess2]

2 hours ago, runewell said:

Yes salvation is an event.  Repentance is a pre-requisite yet not considered "works".  But apart from this one "work" nothing else is necessary.  You can die five minutes later (like the criminal on the cross) and enjoy the fullness of Heaven.  LDS seem to believe that some combination of works and worthiness will get them into a higher kingdom.  In Christianity there is only one kingdom, doing God's work is of course our goal, and we recognize that we are in fact not worthy of anything at all.  The fact that Jesus comes into the equation is not because we need that extra bump but because we are hopelessly lost without Him.

After the event has occurred, you will see things differently.  I can't speak for everyone but before that event you are spiritually dead and afterwards you are spiritually alive.  It becomes possible to commune with God.  Your desires change.  No fear of death.  It is a big change but it's not like you get hit with a lightning bolt.  It is a very inward change.  The event is more or less permanent but that is another can of worms.

The LDS agree with you as it pertains to Salvation.

Where you are missing some gospel truths is in your understanding of What is Heaven?

Edited April 24, 2017 by anatess2

[runewell]

2 hours ago, anatess2 said:

Where you are missing some gospel truths is in your understanding of What is Heaven?

Although I will admit there is a lot that I don't know, it doesn't necessarily follow that I am missing out on any truths about Heaven.  it's going to be difficult for either side to "prove" their version is the accurate one though.

[anatess2]

5 minutes ago, runewell said:

Although I will admit there is a lot that I don't know, it doesn't necessarily follow that I am missing out on any truths about Heaven.  it's going to be difficult for either side to "prove" their version is the accurate one though.

Well, when you can prove any version of an existence of a God is accurate, I'll take that as an excuse.

Edited April 24, 2017 by anatess2

[person0]

4 minutes ago, runewell said:

Although I will admit there is a lot that I don't know, it doesn't necessarily follow that I am missing out on any truths about Heaven.  it's going to be difficult for either side to "prove" their version is the accurate one though.

In fact, it is impossible for either side to prove.  That is why we stress so much the importance of reading the Book of Mormon for yourself, and praying to ask God with a sincere heart if it is true.  Sincere meaning you are willing to change your life and your perspective even if the answer is not what you want, and that you are willing to receive from God an answer that it is true just as much as you are prepared to receive that it is not.  If you do this, then you can receive the answer for yourself, and from there (regardless of the answer you receive) it becomes so much easier to make a decision about how scriptures should be interpreted, etc.

[runewell]

9 minutes ago, person0 said:

In fact, it is impossible for either side to prove.  That is why we stress so much the importance of reading the Book of Mormon for yourself, and praying to ask God with a sincere heart if it is true. 

Actually your scripture tells you to pray and see if the words are NOT true.  

Not sure why I would believe a book that has been changed over 3,900 times in the last 200 years.  

[person0]

12 minutes ago, runewell said:

Actually your scripture tells you to pray and see if the words are NOT true.  

Yes, it does.  That is an artistic form of expressing the statement.  It works either way you ask, but if you want to ask if it's not true with a sincere heart, please do.  Based on your communications, however, it does not appear that you as of yet have a sincere heart regarding this specific matter.

13 minutes ago, runewell said:

Not sure why I would believe a book that has been changed over 3,900 times in the last 200 years.  

This is the second self-contradictory statement you have made (the first being denying that the Holy Ghost bears witness of the real truth).  The only way your reasoning above can be valid is if you are not a Christian, and are not coming from the Christian perspective.  It appears, however, that you claim to be a Christian.  Using your same reasoning above, why would you believe the Bible to be true?  It has been changed many more times than that over it's history.

[NeuroTypical]

50 minutes ago, runewell said:

Not sure why I would believe a book that has been changed over 3,900 times in the last 200 years.  

Oh fun - you've encountered some old-style antimormon criticism, and it sounded good to you.  Well, it's been a few years since I've encountered this one - the internet having made the obvious answers so available to people, most critics dropped it.  But since you seem to have missed the responses, here you go:

https://www.lds.org/ensign/1983/12/understanding-textual-changes-in-the-book-of-mormon?lang=eng

https://www.fairmormon.org/conference/august-2002/changes-in-the-book-of-mormon

Also, how odd to see a Christian level this particular complaint against the Book of Mormon.  Are you of the opinion, runewell, that somehow the Bible is exempt from human alteration?  Do you believe what you read (in any of the dozens of popular different translations out there) is the same verbiage that existed 100 years ago, or 1000, or 2017?  Are you unaware of the human-run councils way back when, where folks got together and chose what scripture would be considered 'canon', and what wouldn't?  

Are you aware of the impact the Dead Sea Scrolls had on our understanding of original biblical text?  Are you aware that some of the original groundbreaking work was done by Prof Donald Parry, professor of Hebrew at Brigham Young University, back in the '90's?

Basically, if you think a book that has been changed much in a few centuries gives you pause, there's no way on God's green earth you should ever give the Bible a second glance, as it stands condemned of that criticism by orders of magnitude.  

Pray tell, what other pearls of antimormon wisdom do you have to share with us poor deluded Mormons?

Edited April 24, 2017 by NeuroTypical

[Just_A_Guy]

Don't not hold back, @NeuroTypical.  Tell us how you really feel!

[wenglund]

7 hours ago, runewell said:

Yes salvation is an event.  Repentance is a pre-requisite yet not considered "works".  But apart from this one "work" nothing else is necessary.  You can die five minutes later (like the criminal on the cross) and enjoy the fullness of Heaven.  LDS seem to believe that some combination of works and worthiness will get them into a higher kingdom.  In Christianity there is only one kingdom, doing God's work is of course our goal, and we recognize that we are in fact not worthy of anything at all.  The fact that Jesus comes into the equation is not because we need that extra bump but because we are hopelessly lost without Him.

After the event has occurred, you will see things differently.  I can't speak for everyone but before that event you are spiritually dead and afterwards you are spiritually alive.  It becomes possible to commune with God.  Your desires change.  No fear of death.  It is a big change but it's not like you get hit with a lightning bolt.  It is a very inward change.  The event is more or less permanent but that is another can of worms.

I am grateful for your responses. It helps me understand your position better.

It may interest you to learn that we agree, in part, that salvation is an event, though LDS Christians also view it as multiple events as well as several processes. For two of the salvific events Christ was the sole agent (Gethsemane and Calvary), though many will freely receive the gifts flowing from those events. For the third, which consists of a host of salvific events, Christ was the first of all who have and will live on the earth (the tomb--i.e. resurrection). For the fourth, which is also a host of salvific events, Christ was one among many (the river Jordan--i.e. baptism and the Gift of the Holy Ghost, or in other words born of the water and spirit). For a fifth, which is a series as well as a host of events, Christ is the head and initiator of multiple salvific dispensations (salvation from worldly bondage.and establishment of God's kingdom on earth and in heaven). Sixth, is salvation from physical and spiritual sickness and demonic possession (see 31 individual healings) , Seventh is salvation from physical and spiritual hunger and poverty (feeding the 5000 and initiating the sacrament, etc.). Eight, is salvation from orphanage and familial scattering and disconnection  (marriage of the lamb, etc.). Ninth is salvation from  ignorance and darkness (setting forth the gospel of truth)

Several of the later events we LDS view as marked by a salvific "gate," but which also consist of a salvific "path" or "way" that  leads to Christ, and leads one to becoming one with the Father and Son, a united family, and eventually becoming perfect even as the father and Son are perfect. Included on the path are various salvific exoduses and gatherings and buildings of kingdoms and families.

The reason I asked you what you believe you are being saved from is because each of these events and processes entail different aspects of salvation, including salvation from sin, salvation from spiritual and physical death, salvation from fallen or natural man and ungodliness, .salvation from damnation and limits to progression, salvation from imperfection, etc.

If one believes simply in salvation from sin, and perhaps rudimentary in salvation from physical death, then one  may only recognize or acknowledge one or several of these salvific events, while those of us Christians who believe in a rich and expansive set of salvations, will acknowledge each of the listed events and processes, as well as others not mentioned. 

And, what all one includes in the set of salvations will rationally inform their perception of heaven--whether binary or consisting of various kingdoms and mansions.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-