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26 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

For that flood covenant, yes.  For the Baptismal Covenant, it encompasses your entire existence.  Think about it... your Baptismal Covenant wipes clean your past sins, so of course, it applies to the past.

Ok so what did Jesus accomplish and what does baptism accomplish?  On p.62 it says:

When men truly and heartily repent, and make manifest to the heavens that their repentance is genuine by obedience to the requirements made known to them through the laws of the Gospel, then are they entitled to the administration of salvation .

Later it says:

We, the Latter-day Saints, believe in being baptized by immersion for the remission of sins

Although there is no account of the criminal on the cross next to Jesus being baptized, nevertheless Jesus told him he would enter paradise.  

Brigham Young goes on to say,  Some of our old traditions teach us that a man guilty of atrocious and murderous acts may savingly repent when on the scaffold; and upon his execution will hear the expression, “Bless God! he has gone to heaven, to be crowned in glory, through the all-redeeming merits of Christ the Lord.” This is all nonsense. Such a character never will see heaven.

So He would seem to contradict Jesus.

Sorry that's a lot to put together at once, but it is somewhat related.

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3 hours ago, runewell said:

Lots of people will do works (yet not know God) and come up disappointed on the day of judgment.  God is first and foremost interested in establishing a relationship.  Just because people will be judged by their works in Bible verses doesn't guarantee that the outcome will be a good one.

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?  And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

I couldn't have said it better myself.  It's something you really need to take to heart.

But I guess you're not going to answer the three questions in the OP of this thread, are you?  Too difficult?  No real answers?  Do you not understand the principles involved in even understanding the questions?  It would appear you don't know our faith as well as you'd like to think you do.

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58 minutes ago, runewell said:

...Although there is no account of the criminal on the cross next to Jesus being baptized, nevertheless Jesus told him he would enter paradise...

@runewell, how you understand paradise and how LDS understand paradise are two different things.

M.

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1 hour ago, runewell said:

Although there is no account of the criminal on the cross next to Jesus being baptized, nevertheless Jesus told him he would enter paradise.  

Do you believe Jesus contradicted himself somehow then. He's the one who said...ah...nevermind... Useless discussion.

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5 hours ago, Carborendum said:

I couldn't have said it better myself.  It's something you really need to take to heart.

But I guess you're not going to answer the three questions in the OP of this thread, are you?  Too difficult?  No real answers?  Do you not understand the principles involved in even understanding the questions?  It would appear you don't know our faith as well as you'd like to think you do.

Or could it be that I am a busy family man and can't spend every second on this forum?  

Of course I don't know your faith as well as I'd like to, why do you think I am asking questions.

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8 hours ago, Carborendum said:

Because the Administrator suggested we take this discussion to this forum, here is the continuation.

That is the usual cop-out for one who avoids answering.  But let me try to give you the benefit of the doubt and explain even further.

Your position (as I understand it -- feel free to correct any of the following statement) is:

  1. You don't need to do anything to gain salvation.
  2. Christ has done it all for you.  He paid the price.
  3. There is nothing within man to be able to gain salvation.
  4. No work we do has anything to do with salvation.
  5. To claim that we do need to do any work does ... something... bad???  So, when Mormons talk about ordinances or any kind of work, we're diminishing the power of the Atonement.

At the same time, you say:

  1. We need to accept Christ as our Savior to gain salvation.  
  2. We need to love God.  
  3. We need to come to Christ.  
  4. We need to show our gratitude for His Great Work -- the Atonement.

Why do you not see this second list as "works"?  How is this any less a list of "works" than saying we need to repent? <=== First question

If you truly believe there is NOTHING that man can do to gain salvation, then that second list is also null and void.  Thus the logical conclusion is that you shouldn't even need to be aware of Christ at all to gain salvation.  He paid the price already.

If he paid the price already, then anyone going to hell is double dipping.

Why would God double dip on the suffering?  Is that just?  To require double the suffering? <=== Second question

NOW will you please explain what you mean by "I am Saved"?  I had asked that question earlier.  You have ignored it. <=== Third question

 

I actually responded to the two questions long ago in the other thread, that response didn't make it over here:

Regarding the first question, salvation is a gift that cannot be earned.  You have repent of your sin and accept this gift.  There is nothing you can do to earn or deserve it.  Just like getting a gift at Christmas, you unwrap the gift and enjoy it.  Nobody puts conditions on it.  Nobody asks you to pay your fair share.  Unwrapping the gift isn't "work".

You can die one minute later with a life devoid of works and live with Him in Heaven.

Acts of love and gratitude towards God are things we choose to do after salvation.  But nothing we can do will earn salvation because  All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags (Isaiah 64:6)

I must confess I still don't understand the double-dipping concept in the second question.  :shrug:

The third question I am just noticing now.  Romans 10:9 says:   If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

His sacrifice on the cross made that possible.

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5 hours ago, Maureen said:

@runewell, how you understand paradise and how LDS understand paradise are two different things.

M.

I don't know why everyone leaves these as cliffhangers, it's like you want me to increase my post count and ask you to continue... :( Feel free to just tell me the difference rather than tell me there is a difference. :cool:

 

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I don't know why everyone leaves these as cliffhangers, it's like you want me to increase my post count and ask you to continue... :( Feel free to just tell me the difference rather than tell me there is a difference. :cool:

Hey @runewell, mainstream Christianity sees paradise as heaven, while LDS believe that this paradise is really the spirit world; a place where the spirits of the dead go to wait until the resurrection. And they believe that the spirits that occupy the spirit world are still working and learning. My MIL passed away on her mission and some LDS believe that she is still a missionary in the spirit world teaching those who had not heard "the gospel" while they were alive. The spirit world is like a second chance.

https://www.lds.org/manual/gospel-principles/chapter-41-the-postmortal-spirit-world?lang=eng

M.

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22 minutes ago, Maureen said:

Hey @runewell, mainstream Christianity sees paradise as heaven, while LDS believe that this paradise is really the spirit world; a place where the spirits of the dead go to wait until the resurrection. And they believe that the spirits that occupy the spirit world are still working and learning. My MIL passed away on her mission and some LDS believe that she is still a missionary in the spirit world teaching those who had not heard "the gospel" while they were alive. The spirit world is like a second chance.

https://www.lds.org/manual/gospel-principles/chapter-41-the-postmortal-spirit-world?lang=eng

M.

Thanks Maureen.  Jesus said He would be with this criminal in paradise.  Is the place you described a place you would expect Jesus to end up as well?

43Jesus answered him, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.”

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58 minutes ago, runewell said:

Thanks Maureen.  Jesus said He would be with this criminal in paradise.  Is the place you described a place you would expect Jesus to end up as well?

43Jesus answered him, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.”

I've always understood paradise to mean heaven.

M.

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3 hours ago, runewell said:

Thanks Maureen.  Jesus said He would be with this criminal in paradise.  Is the place you described a place you would expect Jesus to end up as well?

 

So I am not a scriptorian whatsoever, so just relaying what I have been taught about LDS beliefs. The above statement is not a comment on where Jesus would end up, rather it is Jesus giving us some insight into where our spirits go when they leave our mortal shells. He is saying to the criminal, "even though you are dying on a cross, later today, you will still be alive and in a place called paradise, and furthermore, I will be there with you." (This also establishes that physical death can be defined as the separation of the body and spirit)

Peter gives more information about where our spirits go after death.  He says:

19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

The LDS believe that the above scripture describes Jesus' continuing mission after he "gave up the ghost" on the cross.  Remember that after resurrection he told Mary that he had not yet ascended to his Father.  Where was his spirit then? We believe that he was as Peter said "preaching unto the spirits in prison". 

So we know that Christ was the first fruits of the resurrection.  Where were all of the spirits of people who died before he completed his work? We do not believe that those spirits who have passed go immediately to heaven, which is made clear by the above scriptures. (Again, even our Savior did not ascend directly to his Father.) We believe that those spirits go to either spirit paradise or spirit prison. We know Jesus said that the criminal would be with him in paradise and Peter said that Jesus preached to spirits in prison so at least two places are prepared for our spirits after death and those places are not with our Father, so in my mind, not heaven.  

 

I'd go on but writing makes me tired and I can't remember my point.

 Laughing.

I think I was just responding that Christ was not teaching about "end up" location when speaking to the criminal on the cross.

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8 hours ago, runewell said:

Thanks Maureen.  Jesus said He would be with this criminal in paradise.  Is the place you described a place you would expect Jesus to end up as well?

43Jesus answered him, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.”

We believe that during the time between his death and resurrection Christ went to paradise and organized his faithful followers (all those deceased prophets and righteous folks) to preach the gospel to those who had died in a state of wickedness and who were, therefore, in spirit prison.  Thus, yes indeed, that man could be with Christ in paradise on that day, and yet still not be in heaven.  Whether Christ spent any of this time (between his death and resurrection) in heaven, or spent all of it in paradise arranging for those in prison to be given a chance at freedom, I don't know (though I think the scriptural accounts of what happened after the resurrection give us hints).

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18 minutes ago, runewell said:

Wow that is quite a doctrinal difference.  Any chance to can direct me to the scriptures or teachings that discuss this?

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bd/paradise.html?lang=eng&letter=P

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/tg/spirits-in-prison?lang=eng

19 minutes ago, runewell said:

By the way, I am going to continue most of my discussions back in the original thread.  I'll try to check out what's going on in here too.

IMO, the respectful thing to do is to initiate a new thread for each topic you wish to discuss.  The moderator of this site has made it clear that there are different forums (you can see the list here) and that members are expected to keep their conversations on topic with the forum.  To me it is rational to limit threads in scope in order to reduce confusion (not have posts jumping back and forth between multiple topics).  You certainly don't have to keep it all to this one thread, nor does it make sense to co-opt that other thread for the multiple topics now going on there - especially when the moderator has asked us not to.

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I believe I was directed to this thread from the original.

I think there are some misunderstandings between various different ideas and definitions.  When working with different definitions of different things, it makes it hard to see when we may be discussing the same thing.

Here are some basic ideas of various religions as what I understand them, and how they MIGHT relate to the LDS faith.

Baptist - The Lord died on the Cross and saved all men from their sins.  All that is required is to accept his grace to be forgiven of these sins and perfected.  If you do this, you are saved.  This literally means you are then saved to go to heaven.  Your sins were already paid for by the Lord, you just have to accept that.

How do you know that this has occurred?

You will literally have a change of heart.  Your entire being will literally be changed.  Where you once desired to do evil, now you will only desire to do good continually.  Hence, you will be saved, and your change will be reflected in your actions.  This will, by default, normally lead to baptism, for as you now are a true follower of the Lord, and your heart has been changed and perfected, you too wish to follow and do what is good.  This includes Baptism.  Baptism is a choice, and baptism is by immersion.

Is Baptism necessary?  It depends on the sect of Baptist you are part of, but in general, no.  However, if you truly have a change of heart, this change will be reflected in what you do (or as James would put it, works...these will not save you, but are reflective of what you are doing).  If one has this change of heart, but does not have the opportunity to show that devotion and acceptance through Baptism, the Lord does not hold that against them.  They are still saved.

Now, it is possible that the most vile murderer has been saved...we do not know, only the LORD can look upon one's heart and know.  However, normally, that change of heart will be reflected in one's actions.  Only the Lord and each individual knows whether they have truly been saved or not.

How does this differ from Mormons - Mormons believe that the sins of all men were paid for by the Lord.  We also believe that we have to accept this.  We do NOT believe the change of heart is the same as the Baptist do.  We do not believe that we will have this mighty change of heart that leads us to be perfected and do good continually.  Instead, we may be guided by the Spirit and have our hearts changed in that way, but we are not suddenly going to be perfect in our hearts and continually desire to do good.  We can still be tempted and still can reject the Lord. 

We also believe that Baptism is a requirement of the Lord (but one that can be waived by the Lord if he so wishes...ala...infant baptism is NOT something the LDS church ascribes to, nor is approval for the heavily mentally handicap who cannot make decisions for themselves...etc...etc..etc) as it is a physical showing of our commitment to the Lord and a covenant of such.  One does NOT have to be baptized in the flesh in this life, but at some point will need to accept the Lord and this is symbolized by Baptism.  For this reason, we believe they can be baptized by proxy (as per, what we call Baptisms for the Dead) by others in this life as they show the requisite desire to accept and follow the Lord in the next life (or spirit world which is also a totally different topic, but is also something that differentiates Mormons and just about every other Christian religion in their beliefs).

General Modern Day Christians (more liberal denomination)  - Believe in a round about way of works, but claim to be saved by Grace.  In otherwords, they believe that all they have to do is be good.  If they are good people, they will go to heaven.

Mormons - Believe that we must have faith in the Lord.  This leads us to desiring to do what he commands us which leads to Faith, Repentence, Baptism, the gift of the Holy Ghost and enduring to the end.  In otherwords, we believe that doing good is NOT what saves us.  Doing good will be a reflection of our Faith, aka...as per James...works without faith is dead...thus we show our faith through our works.

Conservative General Christians - Believe in grace.  It is only by Grace that one is saved, however, as with Mormons, there are works that indicate that we accept this grace.  One is by following the commandment to be Baptized.  This can differentiate between congregation to congregation.  Some feel that infants need to be baptized.  Others, such as Anabaptist do NOT believe this, instead stating that you must make a knowing choice and thus baptism can ONLY be made by someone with full understanding and consciousness in their decision (Anabaptist also tend to believe in Baptism by immersion, though some also believe in sprinkling, and also believe in pacifism).  They believe it is Grace that saves them, but that they should show their willingness and faith in the Lord by following his commandments, hence doing good deeds, and other outward indications (Such as participation in Eucharist).

Mormons - Ah, this is getting sort of close, probably because it is really really general (as there are a ton of General Christian Sects out there).  Mormons do not believe in infant baptism, but believe that we need to follow the Example of the Lord by doing all that our father commanded us.  We are not perfect, but we are perfected in Christ, or that through the atonement, our sins can be washed away.  We still need to strive individually to keep the commandments and can fall away if we so choose, however, for the most part we can still choose to come back and once again accept the Lord and repent.  We also have the very LIBERAL belief that anyone that accepts Christ will be saved in the Kingdom of Heaven (though we separate that out into various different areas, and so they may not necessarily be at the top of the heap there).  We also believe that almost everyone will eventually accept the Lord and the atonement.  This is actually VERY radical, as most Christian religions do NOT believe this.  We do NOT believe that everyone will be with the Lord in heaven, even if they are in the Kingdom of heaven.  Some will merely be there and visited by angels.  We believe that the LORD chooses who will be with him.  Normally however, the intent of our hearts are reflected in what we do.  He laid out clearly many different things that can show our intent, such as Baptism, Confirmation, and other ordinances as well as other things that show our intent to follow him and his commandments.  In general, these are good guidelines of what he will expect or look for, but in the end, HE IS THE JUDGE and he decides.  However, we also know he keeps his promises.

Presbyterian - Not as clear with this religion.  They believe in Pre-destination.  However, it is not as clear cut as some may think.  the Lord did NOT pay for everyone's sins.  He knew who would be saved and ONLY atoned for THEIR sins.  This does not mean someone who is evil and a murderer is saved.  What it means is that those who choose to follow him and do the works (Baptism and other such things) in faith were already known to the Lord (as he knows everything) and as such, they are the ones he sacrificed himself for.  If you are not trying to follow the commandments and doing all you can to be his follower, chances are you are not part of the flock and were not saved.  If you are...well...that speaks for itself.

Mormons- Believe the Lord sacrificed for ALL men (and as I said, have that radical idea that eventually, almost all people will end up in the Kingdom of Heaven).  There is no such thing as Pre-destination.  The Lord knows all, but men have free agency to choose who to follow and what they will do in this life.

 

Now this doesn't cover half of all religions out there, by far...but it's somewhat of a start.  Feel free to correct me.  I'm LDS by faith, not the other religions, so mistakes are to be expected in my understanding of them.

 

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18 hours ago, runewell said:

Ok so what did Jesus accomplish and what does baptism accomplish?  On p.62 it says:

When men truly and heartily repent, and make manifest to the heavens that their repentance is genuine by obedience to the requirements made known to them through the laws of the Gospel, then are they entitled to the administration of salvation .

Later it says:

We, the Latter-day Saints, believe in being baptized by immersion for the remission of sins

Although there is no account of the criminal on the cross next to Jesus being baptized, nevertheless Jesus told him he would enter paradise.  

Brigham Young goes on to say,  Some of our old traditions teach us that a man guilty of atrocious and murderous acts may savingly repent when on the scaffold; and upon his execution will hear the expression, “Bless God! he has gone to heaven, to be crowned in glory, through the all-redeeming merits of Christ the Lord.” This is all nonsense. Such a character never will see heaven.

So He would seem to contradict Jesus.

Sorry that's a lot to put together at once, but it is somewhat related.

Yeay.  We're getting somewhere!

Okay, the cliffhanger was answered by others in above posts.

Basically - most of Christendom believes Final Judgment has occurred for all those who died (well, except Catholics believe in purgatory which is not final state yet).  So, it's either they're already eternally damned or in paradise.

The LDS do not believe this.  We believe that Final Judgment will happen for everyone after the Millennium - after Christ's Second Coming.  We also believe that there are still truths that have not been revealed pertaining to the Kingdom so everybody still has some stuff to learn.  When we die, we don't go to judgment yet.  Rather, we enter the Spirit World with incomplete knowledge such that we continue to learn and grow in knowledge in the Spirit World.  In this Spirit World, those who have become Saints in mortality will be teaching those who have not yet chosen Christ so that they may also become Saints - enter into the salvific covenant of baptism.

Yes, we baptize the dead.  Now, is that an awesome cliffhanger or what?  ;)

 

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14 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

Yeay.  We're getting somewhere!

Okay, the cliffhanger was answered by others in above posts.

Basically - most of Christendom believes Final Judgment has occurred for all those who died (well, except Catholics believe in purgatory which is not final state yet).  So, it's either they're already eternally damned or in paradise.

The LDS do not believe this.  We believe that Final Judgment will happen for everyone after the Millennium - after Christ's Second Coming.  We also believe that there are still truths that have not been revealed pertaining to the Kingdom so everybody still has some stuff to learn.  When we die, we don't go to judgment yet.  Rather, we enter the Spirit World with incomplete knowledge such that we continue to learn and grow in knowledge in the Spirit World.  In this Spirit World, those who have become Saints in mortality will be teaching those who have not yet chosen Christ so that they may also become Saints - enter into the salvific covenant of baptism.

Yes, we baptize the dead.  Now, is that an awesome cliffhanger or what?  ;)

 

That is a difference between LDS/Catholicism/Christianity.

Hebrews 9 is the best example I can think of which supports the final judgment:

Quote

27Just as people are destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, 28so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

 

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14 minutes ago, runewell said:

That is a difference between LDS/Catholicism/Christianity.

Hebrews 9 is the best example I can think of which supports the final judgment:

 

LDS, of course, believes in the Final Judgment because of Hebrews 9... but, what Catholicism/Christianity is lacking, is how people can still be saved if... say, there's this very good man who was born in Aleppo - the Islamic culture capital of the world - and died in the Syrian Civil War not having even heard of the name Jesus Christ, let alone read the Bible or know that one has to accept Christ to be saved...  Catholicism/Christianity has this nebulous teaching that this good man will be saved by the grace and mercy of Christ... well how can that be when he doesn't know Christ?

LDS teaches that this good man will enter the Spirit World and still have the opportunity to learn everything we know about the Kingdom of God, get to know Christ, accept Christ as his savior, enter into a covenant of baptism through repentance.  This good man will then be saved with all the other saints in the final judgment.

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Back to the topic of paradise, I was quite surprised at the definition I found.

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bd/paradise.html?lang=eng&letter=P

Quote

However, the scriptures are not always consistent in the use of the word, especially in the Bible. For example, when Jesus purportedly said to the thief on the cross, “To day shalt thou be with me in paradise” (Luke 23:43), the Bible rendering is incorrect. The statement would more accurately read, “Today shalt thou be with me in the world of spirits” since the thief was not ready for paradise (see HC 5:424–25). Possibly 2 Cor. 12:4 should also not use “paradise” in the sense of meaning the spirit world, as much as meaning the celestial kingdom. The “paradisiacal glory” of A of F 1:10 refers to the glorified millennial state of the earth rather than the spirit world.

 

I don't see how they can say the Bible rendering is incorrect.  

The reasoning is the thief was not ready for paradise.  How can anyone aside from Jesus even make this judgment?  This commentary seems to simply twist the scripture to fit into some other writings some 1800 years later. 

Original Word: παράδεισος

among the Persians a grand enclosure or preserve, hunting-ground, park, shady and well-watered, in which wild animals were kept for the hunt

universally, a garden, pleasure-ground; grove, park

the abode of the souls of the pious until the resurrection

an upper region in the heavens

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19 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

LDS, of course, believes in the Final Judgment because of Hebrews 9... but, what Catholicism/Christianity is lacking, is how people can still be saved if... say, there's this very good man who was born in Aleppo - the Islamic culture capital of the world - and died in the Syrian Civil War not having even heard of the name Jesus Christ, let alone read the Bible or know that one has to accept Christ to be saved...  Catholicism/Christianity has this nebulous teaching that this good man will be saved by the grace and mercy of Christ... well how can that be when he doesn't know Christ?

LDS teaches that this good man will enter the Spirit World and still have the opportunity to learn everything we know about the Kingdom of God, get to know Christ, accept Christ as his savior, enter into a covenant of baptism through repentance.  This good man will then be saved with all the other saints in the final judgment.

Some Baptist actually have a belief that covers this.  They base it on Romans 2:12-15 where those who did not hear the law are not bound by the law, but those who do are bound.  Basically, the belief is all have the word of the Lord in their hearts, and if they act upon it, and in righteousness, they also can be saved by the Lord's grace.  I believe the Methodist also ascribe to this belief, and to a limited degree also the Presbyterians. 

This does not mean many are saved in this fashion, in fact, it is VERY RARE.  However, allows the possibility that one who has never heard of the Lord, but lives in the manner that the Lord expects and in the belief of such, can also be saved.

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11 minutes ago, JohnsonJones said:

Some Baptist actually have a belief that covers this.  They base it on Romans 2:12-15 where those who did not hear the law are not bound by the law, but those who do are bound.  Basically, the belief is all have the word of the Lord in their hearts, and if they act upon it, and in righteousness, they also can be saved by the Lord's grace.  I believe the Methodist also ascribe to this belief, and to a limited degree also the Presbyterians. 

This does not mean many are saved in this fashion, in fact, it is VERY RARE.  However, allows the possibility that one who has never heard of the Lord, but lives in the manner that the Lord expects and in the belief of such, can also be saved.

Right.  Every Christian church has this because... logic.  But the teaching is nebulous.  It always begs the question... well, if they're saved without baptism (or being Born Again) then baptism (being Born Again) is not necessary to salvation... ya know.

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37 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

Right.  Every Christian church has this because... logic.  But the teaching is nebulous.  It always begs the question... well, if they're saved without baptism (or being Born Again) then baptism (being Born Again) is not necessary to salvation... ya know.

Being born again and being baptized are not equivalent in the Christian church.

Born again means that you have been forgiven of your sins, regenerated spiritually, a "new creature".  It would be equivalent to salvation.

Baptism is an outward declaration of faith, symbolic of being washed clean.  (Of course there are various denominational takes on this)

It sounds like baptism at 8 is a common practice among LDS.  What exactly goes on - is there repentance of sin? Does the child know what is going on?  

With all this terminology, I think there is a good chance that some of our beliefs and practices sound similar but I think that the more we discuss the more differences we will find.

 

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35 minutes ago, runewell said:

Being born again and being baptized are not equivalent in the Christian church.

Born again means that you have been forgiven of your sins, regenerated spiritually, a "new creature".  It would be equivalent to salvation.

Baptism is an outward declaration of faith, symbolic of being washed clean.  (Of course there are various denominational takes on this)

It sounds like baptism at 8 is a common practice among LDS.  What exactly goes on - is there repentance of sin? Does the child know what is going on?  

With all this terminology, I think there is a good chance that some of our beliefs and practices sound similar but I think that the more we discuss the more differences we will find.

 

Yes.  Terminology has differences in different denominations of Christianity due to their different interpretations of the gospel.  For example - all Christian Churches believe in being Born Again to be saved.  But - how one achieves being Born Again is different in different denominations.  To others it simply means professing Jesus Christ as one's Lord and Savior in some form of spiritual revival, and then others believe that being Born Again is entering into the waters of Baptism.

Being Born Again in the LDS understanding of the gospel is to accept Christ's Atonement through the Covenant of Baptism.  One cannot enter into a Covenant unless one knows and understands what the covenant entails (repentance is one part of it).  Therefore, a person must be of the age or mental maturity where he can accept accountability for his part of the covenant.  Church policy set the minimum age for accountability at 8 years old.  It does not mean, of course, that all 8-year-olds qualify for baptism.  Of course, there would be some 8 year olds who have not yet reached sufficient understanding of the covenant of baptism and, therefore, cannot be baptized.

 

 

Edited by anatess2
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