New Stake Requirement

[Guest]

43 minutes ago, priesthoodpower said:

I teach youth sunday school and my solution for the phones is this.

"Ok class Its amazing how beneficial technology and cell phones are in our lives, if you are playing a game please concentrate harder to beat that level, If you are watching a sports game I hope your team wins etc..I put a couple of chairs out in the hall way so feel free to go their and continue your cell phone usage. While you are in this class you can only use your phone for the lesson".

This works pretty well.

If a Sunday school teacher in an adult class said this to me, I'd promptly ignore him, and maybe roll my eyes a little inside. 

If my bishop did, that would be another matter. But a teacher in an adult class is leading a discussion, not bossing everyone around. 

[zil]

10 minutes ago, Eowyn said:

I'd promptly ignore him, and resume my round of 2048...

Eowyn!  I can't believe you play games during SS.  Meanwhile, what's your high score.  (I've given up after seeing my brother's.)

(No, Eowyn did NOT say that.  I'm teasing.  Please see your therapist as needed.)

[Iggy]

27 minutes ago, Eowyn said:

If a Sunday school teacher in an adult class said this to me, I'd promptly ignore him, and maybe roll my eyes a little inside. 

If my bishop did, that would be another matter. But a teacher in an adult class is leading a discussion, not bossing everyone around. 

Really? Put yourself in the shoes of the teacher. As the teacher you have spent all week (minimum RS & PH pretty much have a month) preparing the lesson and you have congregants with their heads bowed over their electronic devices concentrating on them and NOT on what you are presenting to them. I have a Kindle Fire, and I have the Gospel Doctrine lesson on it and follow along with the teacher. I also have the RS lesson on it, and follow along with the teacher. As much as I love printed books, my poor wrists just cannot hold the books painlessly.

I also have FB and my email program on it, BUT I do not go into those apps - not even at home. Those are for when I am out of town staying with family.

It is just down right rude to keep your nose buried in your phone or tablet during class. The Gospel Doctrine and RS/Priesthood Teacher has every right to request that you put your FB, email and games away. If that is all you are going to be doing, then go home.

As for those extremely rude people who are texting, others can hear when a text comes in on your phone - if you would rather be texting, then stay home.

[priesthoodpower]

41 minutes ago, Eowyn said:

If a Sunday school teacher in an adult class said this to me, I'd promptly ignore him, and maybe roll my eyes a little inside. 

If my bishop did, that would be another matter. But a teacher in an adult class is leading a discussion, not bossing everyone around. 

1. I would think its much nicer to tell students to continue their distracting cell phone behaviors outside of the classroom. Im not their parent so I dont want to take their phones away or tell them to turn it off, although these seem to be the normal rules in many youth classes.

2. The adult classes dont have a problem with this because we are respectful enough to know that if we have to conduct business or personal matters on our phones we would step out of the class to do it. Im not sure why you brought this up, youth and adults are on very different maturity levels.

3. You do understand that the teacher in the adult SS class is there because the bishop, or stake pres, or prophet, or Jesus cannot be there personally to teach it right! Its an official calling and they are set apart through a priesthood blessing to teach. If you dont like a teachers style and what he/she does to make the environment conducive to the spirit then I can only refer you to Matthew 25:45 ".. Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me " or do what iggy suggested in the above post, Go home, no one is forcing any of us to sit in a chapel where everyone is volunteering and contributing to the "community" and Yes, I have taken iggys advice in the past and have stayed home from church on days when I felt like I didnt want to go, in fact the most recent and only time this year was in February when I was stressed out and decided to go hiking by myself instead of attend church.

Edited May 3, 2017 by priesthoodpower

[Guest]

I know plenty of adults who used to play games on their phones in my Elders Quorum!

That is why I would use the Socratic method when teaching.

[Guest]

  I've been a teacher in a class where people were sitting in the back chatting and giggling, or playing on their phones. It's annoying, but they're not children and I'm not their mother. 

[Guest]

59 minutes ago, Iggy said:

stay home

I don't think that's the attitude we should have toward anyone who showed up to church. They're there. We don't know how much it took for them to even get that for. I'm not going to make it my place to decide who deserves to be there and who doesn't. 

[Rob Osborn]

I flat out dont say anything about it unless its a youth in my class messing around. As for adults, whatever, if they want to play on their phone thats their deal, Im not the church police. Those willing to come and participate will get more out of the class while those who play on their phones will be one up on the rest of us on facebook.

[Fether]

2 hours ago, BeccaKirstyn said:

As Anddenex said, I think this will begin to become a common announcement in other wards and stakes, not just YSA wards. 

Shoot me now!! (Jk  )

I remember in seminary they would always demand the students to bring physical copies and would talk about how they were so much better. It created a complex in a lot of students that students who used their iPhones for scriptures were somehow less than those who didn't

 anyway... the teachers don't ask students to bring physical copies anymore if they have electronic copies, missionaries in state side missions use tablets, we are seeing an increase in videos and digital pictures used in General Conference, the church is CONSTANTLY updating the gospel library and their other apps. I feel like we will be moving more towards incorporation of electronics than the deincorporation of them. I don't see the brethren making a broad statement as cut and dry as "do not use electronics in sacrament meeting". We do however, see them teaching the doctrine of the sacrament and showing us a few ways we are known for removing the sacredness of it and teaching correct principles in hopes that we can govern ourselves.

Any statement made in stakes or wards by those in authority and under correct stewardship should also be obeyed with strictness.

[Fether]

1 hour ago, Iggy said:

Really? Put yourself in the shoes of the teacher. As the teacher you have spent all week (minimum RS & PH pretty much have a month) preparing the lesson and you have congregants with their heads bowed over their electronic devices concentrating on them and NOT on what you are presenting to them. I have a Kindle Fire, and I have the Gospel Doctrine lesson on it and follow along with the teacher. I also have the RS lesson on it, and follow along with the teacher. As much as I love printed books, my poor wrists just cannot hold the books painlessly.

I also have FB and my email program on it, BUT I do not go into those apps - not even at home. Those are for when I am out of town staying with family.

It is just down right rude to keep your nose buried in your phone or tablet during class. The Gospel Doctrine and RS/Priesthood Teacher has every right to request that you put your FB, email and games away. If that is all you are going to be doing, then go home.

As for those extremely rude people who are texting, others can hear when a text comes in on your phone - if you would rather be texting, then stay home.

We don't prepare lessons to given them, we prepare lessons to inspire students to repent and come into Christ. If a student isn't paying sttention, maybe there is something we can do to help the student.

Also, Im sure their are people more righteous than we are that could say "just stay home" to us when we fall short of their current spiritual standards.

[Guest MormonGator]

1 hour ago, DoctorLemon said:

I know plenty of adults who used to play games on their phones in my Elders Quorum!

I have to admit, when I went to a three hour block yes, I played games or checked my FB during EQ. In fairness to me, I was always keeping the mood light, making insightful comments (I had several teachers thank me after class) and asking interesting questions. So it's not the phone, it's the person operating it. Some of us truly can multi task. I'd rather have someone look at their phone and interact with the class than not look at their phone and sit in back sleeping (which I saw) or never asking questions (which I saw) or just sitting there with a look of bored disinterest (which I saw). 

Edited May 3, 2017 by MormonGator

[kapikui]

I actually listen better when I'm doing something slightly distracting. Reading is bad since processing the language of the text interferes with processing the language of the talking.  A good game of 2048 is nice for a concentration enhancer since I can process all of the talk.  If I don't have a distraction, I'll hear a bit, and be off on some long chain of thoughts.  

Now if my doing something on a tablet that is making no noise is distracting to you, it's you with the problem.  I'm not preventing you from hearing anything, and I'm doing things to help me listen.  For that matter, as long as I'm not being specifically disruptive, it's absolutely none of your business if I'm paying attention or not. 

[Vort]

3 hours ago, kapikui said:

I actually listen better when I'm doing something slightly distracting.

I have heard this excuse all of my life. I remember even using it myself, at least once, long ago.

Not any more. I disbelieve it. Not that I think you're lying; I think you're telling what you believe to be the truth. I simply think you're wrong. With a relatively minimal amount of practice, people listen better when they listen, not when they distract themselves.

[Fether]

@Vort @kapikui

i agree with Vort. In today's society, we expect instant entertainment and when boredom to Amy extent rolls along, we assume something is wrong. My aunt told me something the other day. She said "People now-a-days don't know how to be bored." 

I think you are bored, but when you "get distracted", you are really getting entertained by something else so you can bare what your mind says is boring.

[zil]

3 hours ago, Vort said:

I have heard this excuse all of my life. I remember even using it myself, at least once, long ago.

Not any more. I disbelieve it. Not that I think you're lying; I think you're telling what you believe to be the truth. I simply think you're wrong. With a relatively minimal amount of practice, people listen better when they listen, not when they distract themselves.

I agree.  I struggle with aural focus myself; I used to distract myself with mindless actions until I realized these were not helping me get the most from what I was hearing (they only helped my mind not wander too far, which is not the same thing).  Now I take notes (on paper, with a fountain pen ) during talks in Sacrament meeting (and SC/GC), and follow along in the teacher's manual in SS and lesson manual RS.  This helps me to focus entirely on one thing.

In other words, there are better ways to aid in concentration.

[mordorbund]

Is this the updated, modern version of the knitting thread?

[Guest]

6 hours ago, Vort said:

I have heard this excuse all of my life. I remember even using it myself, at least once, long ago.

Not any more. I disbelieve it. Not that I think you're lying; I think you're telling what you believe to be the truth. I simply think you're wrong. With a relatively minimal amount of practice, people listen better when they listen, not when they distract themselves.

2 hours ago, zil said:

I agree.  I struggle with aural focus myself; I used to distract myself with mindless actions until I realized these were not helping me get the most from what I was hearing (they only helped my mind not wander too far, which is not the same thing).  Now I take notes (on paper, with a fountain pen ) during talks in Sacrament meeting (and SC/GC), and follow along in the teacher's manual in SS and lesson manual RS.  This helps me to focus entirely on one thing.

In other words, there are better ways to aid in concentration.

I'll disagree.

Just because some method doesn't work for you, doesn't mean it didn't work with others.  There are different aids to concentration.  Just like Awakenings everyone has a different mechanism.  Finding what works best for you is the trick.  

The idea of partial distraction has some partial substantiation from certain studies.  But they seem to be inconclusive because everyone has a different method of "appropriate distraction".  Some require a partial visual distraction to concentrate on listening.  Others require a tactile distraction to help pay attention.  I myself required a musical distraction to read better.  

So, we have tests showing a large group of people listened or paid attention during a meeting when they had a fidget cube.  But others did not respond to tactile distraction, so they really needed a visual distraction to help them focus on listening. etc.

I watched TV while I was doing homework.  Yes, the occasional glance up while mostly listening to the plot helped me focus on the books.  My sister tried it and she just didn't do her homework.  But she didn't have ADD.  She was one of the over-achievers of the family.

Eventually, I found that if I listened to music -- especially repetitive music -- I'd focus much better than if I watched TV.  But if I had just a completely silent room with no distractions, I couldn't focus for more than 2 minutes on my homework and I'd go crazy or fall asleep.

At the same time (here is the balancing act I always try to inject) there are so many that use this as an excuse to have distractions all around them all the time.  Can you imagine having to take a cell phone with a game app to the endowment room?  Just like the Drunken Master none is none, too much is too drunk.  But just right gives you more power.

Edited May 3, 2017 by Guest

[Guest]

I will say this: if you want to minimize phone use during your Elders Quorum, you need to put some effort into lesson prep.

How many times have I walked into EQ, only to have the teacher pass around the lesson manual and have people read the lesson, paragraph by paragraph?  No insight, no activity, no discussion, just reading?

When I walk into one of these lessons, I almost want to pull out my phone out of protest.  

I think, at least sometimes, phone use during church is a symptom that the teacher is insufficiently prepared and "winging it".  

I think we could learn a thing or two from Protestant pastors when teaching (Mark Driscoll comes to mind).  I have found when I put some real energy into the teaching - humorous stories, emotional testimony, loudly and emotionally denouncing sinful practices (almost yelling), visual aids, etc., people tend to wonder what DoctorLemon is raving about and listen. 

Trust me, in person I can be more entertaining than a game of 2048, and you might just learn something from my lesson!

Edited May 3, 2017 by DoctorLemon

[NightSG]

51 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

Eventually, I found that if I listened to music -- especially repetitive music -- I'd focus much better than if I watched TV.  But if I had just a completely silent room with no distractions, I couldn't focus for more than 2 minutes on my homework and I'd go crazy or fall asleep.

Same here.  IIRC, some studies found that music processing doesn't actually interfere with other thought processes as long as one isn't focusing on the music.  (i.e. listening to the lyrics in detail, or picking out a single instrument from an orchestra)  I did once attend a friend's church where they did the thing with the organ playing long, slow, simple chord arrangements at low volume behind all of the spoken parts of the service, and it was easier for me to stay focused on the sermon...even if the content was a bit out there.

[Iggy]

14 hours ago, Iggy said:

13 hours ago, Eowyn said:

I don't think that's the attitude we should have toward anyone who showed up to church. They're there. We don't know how much it took for them to even get that for. I'm not going to make it my place to decide who deserves to be there and who doesn't. 

 - if you would rather be texting, then stay home.

Yes they do stay, and they persist in their rude behavior and that is why I leave the chapel after Sacrament and sit in the foyer under the speaker so I can hear the speakers without the annoyance of the adult gigglers, gossipers and hand held game players. It is also why I leave church during RS because there is no where else I can go to get away from these rude sisters and just hear the teacher. I am the Old, Fat, White haired, Snippy Sister that will stand up - turn to these/this sister and request that she either put away the electronic game, or cease with the gossiping, Thank You Very Much. If she/they don't cease, then I leave and wait in the car for Hubby.

[NightSG]

4 minutes ago, DoctorLemon said:

I will say this: if you want to minimize phone use during your Elders Quorum, you need to put some effort into lesson prep.

BURN THE HERETIC!!!

How dare you suggest that any lesson be anything more than ...ah, what's the most appropriate term...oh, yeah - vain repetitions, utterly devoid of thought or personal meaning?

I half expect them to start printing the manuals in Mandarin everywhere except Asia to further reduce the risk of anyone actually gaining anything from the lessons.

[Iggy]

12 hours ago, Fether said:

We don't prepare lessons to given them, we prepare lessons to inspire students to repent and come into Christ. If a student isn't paying attention, maybe there is something we can do to help the student.

Also, I'm sure there are people more righteous than we are that could say "just stay home" to us when we fall short of their current spiritual standards.

As teachers/instructors/facilitators of either Gospel Doctrine or RS/PH classes we are presenting a lesson that the First Presidency has given to the entire church to learn. LEARN. That is the key word here.

Eoywn you are correct, we are NOT their parents. We are their Teachers, Instructors, Facilitators. They should treat us and their fellow sisters/brothers with the same respect as they would treat Jesus Christ if He were physically sitting in the same class room with them. He is, we just cannot see Him with our mortal eyes.

If there were another Branch or Ward closer than 26 miles away I would go there just to get away from the habitually gossiping, giggling, rude ADULT members that plague my Branch. Now that I have finally been released from my calling and no longer have to remain in the building till the end of the blocks, I only stay for Sacrament. If the rude members are not in attendance, then I remain for GD and RS.

[Guest MormonGator]

I think part of the cell phone issue just might be a good old generation gap thing. 

[Guest]

Another thing - while I absolutely would respect a Bishop who told me not to use phones in Church, I personally don't think I would ever "call someone out" for using a phone in my class unless I was STRONGLY prompted by the Spirit.  I like to leave this kind of thing between the cell phone user and the Lord, whenever possible.  Is it appropriate to use a cell phone in EQ?  Is it not?  Perhaps this is best resolved in prayer between the user and the Lord.  What is more, in confronting someone, you risk driving that person inactive, which is a FAR worse outcome than tolerating a little "phubbing".  If you happen to ever be in one of my classes, and you do use a phone, please rest assured I will feel no ill will against you.

I am currently teaching 4-5 year olds in primary.  I try to avoid discipline whenever possible, because I want these kids to develop a love for the Church rather than seeing it as being like school.  Instead of disciplining these kids directly, if I feel I am losing control of the class, I talk louder, tell more vivid stories, do an activity, and dominate the class.  More often than not, they drop whatever they are doing that is distracting and pay attention!  I think the same principles can be applied to Elders Quorum as an alternative to shaming a phone user. . . make your lesson or talk or whatever vivid enough, and people can't help but to pay attention.

 

[Guest MormonGator]

24 minutes ago, DoctorLemon said:

Another thing - while I absolutely would respect a Bishop who told me not to use phones in Church, I personally don't think I would ever "call someone out" for using a phone in my class unless I was STRONGLY prompted by the Spirit.  I like to leave this kind of thing between the cell phone user and the Lord, whenever possible.  Is it appropriate to use a cell phone in EQ?  Is it not?  Perhaps this is best resolved in prayer between the user and the Lord.  What is more, in confronting someone, you risk driving that person inactive, which is a FAR worse outcome than tolerating a little "phubbing".  If you happen to ever be in one of my classes, and you do use a phone, please rest assured I will feel no ill will against you.

I am currently teaching 4-5 year olds in primary.  I try to avoid discipline whenever possible, because I want these kids to develop a love for the Church rather than seeing it as being like school.  Instead of disciplining these kids directly, if I feel I am losing control of the class, I talk louder, tell more vivid stories, do an activity, and dominate the class.  More often than not, they drop whatever they are doing that is distracting and pay attention!  I think the same principles can be applied to Elders Quorum as an alternative to shaming a phone user. . . make your lesson or talk or whatever vivid enough, and people can't help but to pay attention.

 

I think you raise a deeper issue-I'm not sure that the church would want to discipline people who are already coming to church unless the case is severe. We need to make it "easier" for people to come to church, not look for reasons to turn them away.  Looking at a cell phone during church isn't like they are lighting joints in the back and passing Coors Light in the hall.  Don't get me wrong, if @Carborendum decided to beat people up in EQ than sure, have a talk with him. If @zil tried to light the ladies room on fire, than yes, that's a cause for discipline. But looking at your phone, however annoying it might be could maybe be one of those cases where you swallow hard and look the other way. 

Edited May 3, 2017 by MormonGator