The Crossroads of My Dreams and Destiny

[mdfxdb]

34 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

I think individuals have a right to say "this is not the sort of baggage I am able/willing to carry".

I wonder how this discussion would be different if the gender roles were reversed.  Would we tell a young LDS woman that she had a moral obligation to seriously consider marriage to a young temple-worthy man who, in a past life, had--say--worked in the porn industry?  Or, had done five years in prison for gang-related manslaughter?

I agree with what you state above.  We all need to decide what type of baggage we are willing to carry.  Only in fantasy land do people come into relationships without any baggage whatsoever.  In real life we take the best we can, and make the best decisions we can with the information we have.  

I would never tell anyone they have a moral obligation to marry a young temple-worthy man no matter what they may have or may not have done.  

[yjacket]

On 6/1/2017 at 6:24 PM, Gazing at essence said:

 

@yjacketI noticed that you mentioned the severity of the situation increases when we consider the fact that many of her sexual sins were committed after her mission. I have to say, more than anything I am worried that she and I have different attitudes towards the covenants that we made with the Lord. I am not sure I understand what the word even means to her. 

This is really what I've been trying to hit home.

[Guest]

On 6/2/2017 at 0:01 PM, Just_A_Guy said:

 

I wonder how this discussion would be different if the gender roles were reversed.  Would we tell a young LDS woman that she had a moral obligation to seriously consider marriage to a young temple-worthy man who, in a past life, had--say--worked in the porn industry?  Or, had done five years in prison for gang-related manslaughter?

But the woman in question never worked in the open industry or been in prison for 5 years on gang related manslaughter chargers. You can't compare apples to oranges. I am sure if she had been everyone on the forum would tell him to run! But she is not. And if a woman came on and asked about dating / marrying a man with a past that included sexual sin, she would get just about the same response as others are giving now. So I do not believe this is a gender role issue.

@Gazing at essence I really think you either need to break of the relationship. Although I believe she has repented, and is clean because of the repentance, everyone is still entitled to to decide what they are looking for in a future spouse. And it sounds like this is a deal breaker for you. I think if it's this big of an issue before marriage than it will be even a bigger issue after marriage.  For this reason I believe you both should go your separate ways. Or at least take a break from each other and date others, maybe it will give you time to figure out what you want. I think in the end you will find someone that you feel comfortable with (if you aren't too picky like the others talked about previously) and I think she will be able to find someone who accepts her past and her repentance.

[Just_A_Guy]

1 hour ago, miav said:

But the woman in question never worked in the open industry or been in prison for 5 years on gang related manslaughter chargers. You can't compare apples to oranges. I am sure if she had been everyone on the forum would tell him to run! But she is not. And if a woman came on and asked about dating / marrying a man with a past that included sexual sin, she would get just about the same response as others are giving now. So I do not believe this is a gender role issue.

I would respectfully disagree about the gender thing; but maybe some newcomer will test our hypothesis one of these days.  

I do agree that fornication is a whole other ballpark from the scenarios I posited; but part of my reason for posing those hypotheticals was that it seemed some here were suggesting that a person had no business rejecting a temple-worthy marriage partner due to that partner's past.  Once we start drawing distinctions about the severity of past sins, we're implicitly conceding that some past histories do justify a partner's refusing to go through with marriage.  If we can firmly establish that proposition, then it seems apparent that anyone who would try to shame or browbeat the OP into accepting this girl anyways isn't really acting out of a belief that every penitent deserves to be considered marriageable--such a person would be acting out of a belief that marrying a non-virgin/ex-fornicator just isn't as big a deal as the OP thinks it is.  (Which is a valid position, I think--I just don't like to see the Atonement turned into a bludgeon in an attempt to convince people that it's the only valid position.)

Edited June 4, 2017 by Just_A_Guy

[mordorbund]

2 hours ago, Just_A_Guy said:

I would respectfully disagree about the gender thing; but maybe some newcomer will test our hypothesis one of these days.  

Maybe these can whet our appetites while we wait:

 

[jewels8]

I once read a book by LDS author, Jack Weyland, entitled, Charly.  Charly was short for Charlene.  It is a story of a man named Sam, like you, who had the same dilemma.  He met a wonderful lady, who became a convert to the Church, but she had had a past.  I think, even though being morally clean is so important, we need to be compassionate of those who have made mistakes.  Not everyone is taught the same, not everyone has the same circumstances and support in their life.  We need to be Christ-like.  This man had a hard time but he chose to learn from it and they went on to have  beautiful marriage.  Charly, later contracted cancer (not from her past) and died and he dealt with the pain of loss from someone he had clearly learned to love.  I know it must be hard, both my husband and I were virgins when we married each other, but purity is not the same thing as virginity.  And a person has the same personality, the same strengths, the same goals, regardless of any past mistakes.  People can change.  I don't know  if she was always a church member or what the situation was, and it is none of my business.  She has probably told you enough and it would be innappropriate for you to ask her for every detail.  If you two do or don't get married to each other, that is a choice that affects both of you, and should be guided by the Holy Ghost.  If you do chose to marry this apparently wonderful woman of God, please do not use her past to beat her with.  She has already suffered and come to her Savior.  And please do not share her sins with anyone and with future children.  She has the right to be respected, loved and valued.  Even though I value chastity highly and know it is good to be a virgin before marriage, I also believe that sexual purity is tantamount to virginity, that they are equal in our Father in Heaven's sight.  I believe that this lady you speak of is a very courageous, humble daughter of God and she deserves a man who will cherish her all the days of her life and far into the eternities.  The question is, are you up to the task to be that man?  She paid her price, are you willing to pay the price?

[Basic]

Gazing,

A good friend of mine went through a similar experience with a girl he was dating. They had been dating for a few months and were getting very serious when his girlfriend came forward and confessed to premarital sex in her high school years. My friend was eaten up with angst and indecision about what to do: on the one hand he really liked her and they were headed toward marriage in they could overcome this hurdle, and on the other hand he had always personally chosen to avoid this behavior himself, and looked forward to marrying a girl who lived to a similar standard. He ended up breaking off the relationship after a number of sleepless nights, and advice from his grandma that "if it bothers you now, it will only bother you more once you get married".

I was friends with both of them and felt bad about the situation, but completely understood the imbalance that this behavior could create. He went on to marry a great girl and have a happy marriage and family. She went on to marry a great guy who wasn't a member. 20 years later both are still married to their respective spouses, with kids, and both appear to be happy in their respective relationships. In hindsight, I'm sure they could have chosen to marry each other and been happy as well, but I'm sure this issue wouldn't have just gone away in the mind of my friend, it would have festered. Perhaps another person might not have felt so strongly about the issue as he did and it could have been overcome.