Can everyone become God?

[Traveler]

56 minutes ago, Rob Osborn said:

I would go so far to say that pretty much no one proves themselves ready or worthy for celestial glory in mortality.

 

I would go a little farther to echo your though and add to it that no one proves themselves ready or worthy for any kingdom of glory.

 

The Traveler

[Rob Osborn]

9 minutes ago, Traveler said:

 

I would go a little farther to echo your though and add to it that no one proves themselves ready or worthy for any kingdom of glory.

 

The Traveler

So, we arent really judged for glory by what we became in mortality. We are judged by what we become after the millennium.

[Traveler]

42 minutes ago, Rob Osborn said:

So, we arent really judged for glory by what we became in mortality. We are judged by what we become after the millennium.

 

I personally believe the word “judged” is overused and over emphasized.   I am of the mind that what we receive through the great Plan of Salvation is more predicated on the mercy of G-d than it is from our worthiness of our second estate between birth and death.

I am convinced that looking at what we (or anyone else) become in mortality is like looking at what the prodigal son had become before he came to his senses.   The very most that the best of us (except Jesus) become worthy of because of their mortality is death.  We are all “unprofitable servants” that but for the mercy of G-d’s forgiveness – are worthy of just about nothing – if that much.

 

The Traveler

Edited May 30, 2017 by Traveler

[Rob Osborn]

1 hour ago, Traveler said:

 

I personally believe the word “judged” is overused and over emphasized.   I am of the mind that what we receive through the great Plan of Salvation is more predicated on the mercy of G-d than it is from our worthiness of our second estate between birth and death.

I am convinced that looking at what we (or anyone else) become in mortality is like looking at what the prodigal son had become before he came to his senses.   The very most that the best of us (except Jesus) become worthy of because of their mortality is death.  We are all “unprofitable servants” that but for the mercy of G-d’s forgiveness – are worthy of just about nothing – if that much.

 

The Traveler

This mindset, which I quite frankly agree with, works heavily in my favor regarding my own opinion on heaven being one single kingdom that all are saved into. 

[Sunday21]

4 hours ago, Traveler said:

 

Absolutely – and that includes ourselves.   And I would say that it includes everything about them – for example --- how good looking we think they are.

 

The Traveler

LOL!

[Sunday21]

2 hours ago, Traveler said:

 

I personally believe the word “judged” is overused and over emphasized.   I am of the mind that what we receive through the great Plan of Salvation is more predicated on the mercy of G-d than it is from our worthiness of our second estate between birth and death.

I am convinced that looking at what we (or anyone else) become in mortality is like looking at what the prodigal son had become before he came to his senses.   The very most that the best of us (except Jesus) become worthy of because of their mortality is death.  We are all “unprofitable servants” that but for the mercy of G-d’s forgiveness – are worthy of just about nothing – if that much.

 

The Traveler

Thank you! Most insightful! That demands a ponder...

[Anddenex]

@Traveler, @Rob Osborn -- How does the following scriptures negate, solidify, or bolster the given interpretations, "For behold, this life is the time for men to prepare to meet God; yea, behold the day of this life is the day for men to perform their labors." (emphasis)

"therefore this life became a probationary state; a time to prepare to meet God; a time to prepare" (emphasis added)

[Rob Osborn]

14 minutes ago, Anddenex said:

@Traveler, @Rob Osborn -- How does the following scriptures negate, solidify, or bolster the given interpretations, "For behold, this life is the time for men to prepare to meet God; yea, behold the day of this life is the day for men to perform their labors." (emphasis)

"therefore this life became a probationary state; a time to prepare to meet God; a time to prepare" (emphasis added)

This scripture was given before Christ was born and died. Their reference was that there was a gulf between paradise and hell and once dead you couodnt do anything about crossing that gulf.

Latter day revelation teaches two things

1. There is a space of time granted after death for men to repent and be saved from Satans power. So, there really are labors that can be performed after death in regards to ones salvation.

2. We (those of us who are heirs of salcation) are on the earth during the millennium as part of the kingdom Christ is still perfecting. Thus, this period of time preparing to meet God is extended up through the end of the millennium.

Edited May 30, 2017 by Rob Osborn

[Traveler]

51 minutes ago, Anddenex said:

@Traveler, @Rob Osborn -- How does the following scriptures negate, solidify, or bolster the given interpretations, "For behold, this life is the time for men to prepare to meet God; yea, behold the day of this life is the day for men to perform their labors." (emphasis)

"therefore this life became a probationary state; a time to prepare to meet God; a time to prepare" (emphasis added)

 

It is my belief that this life is the time to complete our plan (agency) to meet G-d as outlined in the great Plan of Salvation.  I am thinking the greatest accomplishment of this life is repentance.   Anything else is just fluff that does not matter that much.  In short our preparations is to help us appreciate the mercy of G-d – towards us and everyone else that has come to (awaken to) their senses.

 

The Traveler

[Budget]

Women can only get into the celestial kingdom by being sealed and called by her husband....  so being a good Christian is kind of a different issue on a different level.

[Jane_Doe]

19 minutes ago, Budget said:

Women can only get into the celestial kingdom by being sealed 

And men only are there with their wives.  (Sorry I have a person pet peeve when people act like this is somehow just a one-way thing.  BOTH men and women must be sealed.)

[Budget]

Jane_ Doe - LOL.  Sorry I thought the "to" was implied.   Women can only get into the celestial kingdom by being sealed to their husband.  And he, by being sealed to at least one woman/wife.  Or many.  But she can only be sealed to and called by one.

Edited June 3, 2017 by Budget
....forgot that word 'to' again! LOL.

[wenglund]

On 5/27/2017 at 6:36 AM, Sunday21 said:

1) good Christians will not progress from the lower Celestial Kingdom. I don't think this is true...

This assumes that there are multiple kingdoms in the Celestial Kingdom. Do we know this to be the case? This also assumes that "good Christians" will end up in the Celestial Kingdom? Do we know this for sure? 

As for whether progress may occur from Telestrail to the Celestial Kingdom, D&C 76:112 has this to say about those resurrected to Telestial glory: "112 And they shall be servants of the Most High; but where God and Christ dwell they cannot come, worldswithout end." 

However, several verses later this somewhat relevant and salient point is made: 

114 But great and marvelous are the works of the Lord, and the mysteries of his kingdom which he showed unto us, which surpass all understanding in glory, and in might, and in dominion;

115 Which he commanded us we should not write while we were yet in the Spirit, and are not lawful for man to utter;

116 Neither is man capable to make them known, for they are only to be seen and understood by the power of the Holy Spirit, which God bestows on those who love him, and purify themselves before him;

With this in mind, and in response to your questions and comments, I think it fair for me to say, "I don't know,". though perhaps some time in the distant future I will come to know. Until then..

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[Sunday21]

@wenglund

er revelation to the Prophet Joseph, we learn that there are three degrees within the celestial kingdom. To be exalted in the highest degree and continue eternally in family relationships, we must enter into "the new and everlasting covenant of marriage" and be true to that covenant. In other words, temple marriage is a requirement for obtaining the highest degree of celestial glory. (See D&C 131:1-4.) All who are worthy to enter into the new and everlasting covenant of marriage will have that opportunity, whether in this life or the next.

Three degrees of glory in celestial kingdom fro lds.org

[Guest]

20 hours ago, Sunday21 said:

@wenglund

er revelation to the Prophet Joseph, we learn that there are three degrees within the celestial kingdom. To be exalted in the highest degree and continue eternally in family relationships, we must enter into "the new and everlasting covenant of marriage" and be true to that covenant. In other words, temple marriage is a requirement for obtaining the highest degree of celestial glory. (See D&C 131:1-4.) All who are worthy to enter into the new and everlasting covenant of marriage will have that opportunity, whether in this life or the next.

Three degrees of glory in celestial kingdom fro lds.org

If a man doesn't enter that on earth can he in the spirit world?

[The Folk Prophet]

4 hours ago, Christ's Gospel said:

If a man doesn't enter that on earth can he in the spirit world?

He/she cannot, but others can for him/her via work for the dead in the temples.

[Traveler]

On ‎5‎/‎30‎/‎2017 at 0:16 PM, Rob Osborn said:

This mindset, which I quite frankly agree with, works heavily in my favor regarding my own opinion on heaven being one single kingdom that all are saved into. 

 

I have been thinking on your response.  I agree with the idea that there is, in reality, a single kingdom – just as there is only one priesthood.  This comes to me from the understanding that in the resurrection there is one supreme Suzerain, which is G-d the Father.  However, we are also given to understand that there are “degrees” of that singular heavenly kingdom.  We can think in terms of places within the kingdom that are governed by different or more stringent laws.  What we call Celestial is so called because of the law which governs it.

It is my understanding that even among the affairs of men that there are territories (places) that are governed by different laws and only those willing and apointed to abide by the more restrictive laws may enter into such places.  For example, I spent part of my working professional career working on classified military projects.  For a number of years, I would have to pass through 5 different security checks to reach my place of work.  At each place of security check I would have to provide proof that I was eligible and qualified to enter the next “more secured” place.  I believe that this can be a type and shadow and that there are parallels to things sacred and holy.  That in the Kingdom of heaven there are divine beings (sometimes referred to as angles) that insure that all that pass to places of increasing sacredness or holiness possess the proper spiritual “tokens”.

 

The Traveler

[Sunday21]

On 6/5/2017 at 3:57 AM, Guest said:

If a man doesn't enter that on earth can he in the spirit world?

Not sure about the spirit world...maybe while you are in the spirit world, people can do the ordinance work for you by proxy on earth? Another possibility: Someone lives a terrestrial or celestial life, comes back during the millennium and is married on the earth during the millennium.

This is my approach: God is fair. If you have the opportunity to marry a good person during your lifetime but do not do so, God may not be pleased. Never a good idea to displease the Almighty! I think that there are many instances in which a person might not have the opportunity to marry a good person during this life. If someone does not wish to marry during this lifetime, this is an issue that one might wish to discuss with God.

[Rob Osborn]

2 hours ago, Traveler said:

 

I have been thinking on your response.  I agree with the idea that there is, in reality, a single kingdom – just as there is only one priesthood.  This comes to me from the understanding that in the resurrection there is one supreme Suzerain, which is G-d the Father.  However, we are also given to understand that there are “degrees” of that singular heavenly kingdom.  We can think in terms of places within the kingdom that are governed by different or more stringent laws.  What we call Celestial is so called because of the law which governs it.

It is my understanding that even among the affairs of men that there are territories (places) that are governed by different laws and only those willing and apointed to abide by the more restrictive laws may enter into such places.  For example, I spent part of my working professional career working on classified military projects.  For a number of years, I would have to pass through 5 different security checks to reach my place of work.  At each place of security check I would have to provide proof that I was eligible and qualified to enter the next “more secured” place.  I believe that this can be a type and shadow and that there are parallels to things sacred and holy.  That in the Kingdom of heaven there are divine beings (sometimes referred to as angles) that insure that all that pass to places of increasing sacredness or holiness possess the proper spiritual “tokens”.

 

The Traveler

I believe, to some degree, that heaven is broken up into degrees. My only change is that all of those degrees are within the celestial kingdom and that there really arent three separate worlds for the saved to go to. I rely heavily upon Revelations from the NT to show that there can only be one kingdom, in one physical place for all the saved to go to.

[brotherofJared]

On 5/27/2017 at 5:36 AM, Sunday21 said:

I was reading a post online:https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/article/9-things-you-should-know-about-mormonism

it seems to be written by a Mormon. I don't think point 9 can be accurate. In point 9, the author states that good Christians cannot enter the highest levels of the Celestial Kingdom. If I understand the author, he/she seems to think that:

1) good Christians will not progress from the lower Celestial Kingdom. I don't think this is true because:

a) I believe that there is progression from the lower to higher kingdoms within the Celestial kingdom.

b) if you are a good Christian, you are going to be living in the millennium so you will have another opportunity to live a more exalted life

c) Its not fair. God is always fair. 

God is always just. Being fair is a relative term. Of course He is fair, but it may not seem to be from our perspective. But no one can not deny that He is just. 

I have also read posts, not here, where critics claim that only Mormons can obtain the highest levels of the Celestial Kingdom which, if one considers that our baptisms for the dead make people Mormons, then we can't escape that accusation. However, baptism is not to a church. It is simply a saving ordinance that everyone must have in order to enter the Celestial Kingdom.

You mention advancing through the degrees of the highest levels of the Celestial Kingdom and there is simply no way to advance into marriage if a person never married in life. Everyone will have the opportunity to advance before the judgment, but once judgment is passed there will be no more opportunity for advancement. There will be plenty of opportunities to advance for those who didn't squander the opportunities in life. That's the way I understand your statement in "a)". My personal belief that all married couples will have their work done for them and the wife they married. But the many people who never got the chance to marry, both men and women (which, I believe the biggest cause is that they just didn't live to a marrying age), will enjoy a courtship and be able to find a mate in the spirit world. This has been ongoing since the first man and woman died without marriage. During the millennium, when the Savior reigns personally on the earth, these who wish to marry will be able to be sealed by proxy just as those who died are already. We, the living, in those days, will learn directly from them what they desire and those marriages will be performed so they also may obtain the highest degrees of glory. Of course, these are my personal views. I can think of no other reason for a millennium. It's not a reward for the few good people left on the earth at his second coming. It an absolute necessity to handle the natural and normal shortcomings of life in mortality.

In "b)", you stated that those living in the millennium will have "another opportunity", which I think is not correct. There are no second chances. However, that being said, no mortal being is capable of determining if the person had a "first chance" (unless moved upon by the Holy Ghost, but I wouldn't want to be that person if that responsibility ever were to rest on my shoulders). 

I don't think we can see these opportunities given to those through temple ordinances after death as second chances for anyone. If they refused to avail themselves of it the first time around, what's to say that they will not refuse the second time. Most refuse because they don't want to live a life patterned after a Celestial order. One of the greatest problems in human nature is the justification we give ourselves that what we are doing is our God given right. And, oddly, that is a true statement. Like the marshmallow experiment, many people are not willing to put off a right that they have NOW for more rights later. They cannot see beyond the marshmallow they have. I believe that if they had to chance, truly had the chance in life to obtained these blessings, they will pass it up when they are offered them again. We rise from the grave with the same spirit that went down into the grave. If we are filthy when we die, we will come out of the grave filthy still.

I explained this concept to a friend who told me of his own experience of attempting to swim across a lake to the other side, like the swimming the English Channel. He started with good intentions but halfway there, he just couldn't make it and had his friends haul him out of the water into their boat. He felt that the boat represented Christ. I told him, in this life, it does represent Christ, but in the next, Christ will not carry us to the other side of the lake in a boat. In the next life, our families, through promises made in the temple, sealed families can reach through the eternities and find and retrieve those who lived below their capabilities. However, there, there will be no boat. The journey for them must be made alone with encouragement, but there will be no boat, no rescue. Then, somewhere in the middle, they realize that they chose not to get married and didn't want the priesthood and so when the fatigue and pain and sorrow, that they must suffer themselves, hits. They will suddenly see the fruitlessness of such a pursuit. It's not impossible, but it is very painful and most will just give up thinking it not worth the pain and sorrow.

My take on your question is that as long as a person is following Christ, he is qualified for the Celestial Kingdom. It does not matter if they are modern Christian, Mormon, Hindu or Muslim, all are qualified because all are children of God. Of these, the good ones, the ones that do right, are often kept from learning of Christ and the ordinances by ignorance or the craftiness of man. However, once they learn and I think good people will grasp this concept right away, they will accept this gift with great joy. The saving ordinances are easy to accomplish. Living a Christ-centered life takes a lifetime.

[Rob Osborn]

6 hours ago, brotherofJared said:

God is always just. Being fair is a relative term. Of course He is fair, but it may not seem to be from our perspective. But no one can not deny that He is just. 

I have also read posts, not here, where critics claim that only Mormons can obtain the highest levels of the Celestial Kingdom which, if one considers that our baptisms for the dead make people Mormons, then we can't escape that accusation. However, baptism is not to a church. It is simply a saving ordinance that everyone must have in order to enter the Celestial Kingdom.

You mention advancing through the degrees of the highest levels of the Celestial Kingdom and there is simply no way to advance into marriage if a person never married in life. Everyone will have the opportunity to advance before the judgment, but once judgment is passed there will be no more opportunity for advancement. There will be plenty of opportunities to advance for those who didn't squander the opportunities in life. That's the way I understand your statement in "a)". My personal belief that all married couples will have their work done for them and the wife they married. But the many people who never got the chance to marry, both men and women (which, I believe the biggest cause is that they just didn't live to a marrying age), will enjoy a courtship and be able to find a mate in the spirit world. This has been ongoing since the first man and woman died without marriage. During the millennium, when the Savior reigns personally on the earth, these who wish to marry will be able to be sealed by proxy just as those who died are already. We, the living, in those days, will learn directly from them what they desire and those marriages will be performed so they also may obtain the highest degrees of glory. Of course, these are my personal views. I can think of no other reason for a millennium. It's not a reward for the few good people left on the earth at his second coming. It an absolute necessity to handle the natural and normal shortcomings of life in mortality.

In "b)", you stated that those living in the millennium will have "another opportunity", which I think is not correct. There are no second chances. However, that being said, no mortal being is capable of determining if the person had a "first chance" (unless moved upon by the Holy Ghost, but I wouldn't want to be that person if that responsibility ever were to rest on my shoulders). 

I don't think we can see these opportunities given to those through temple ordinances after death as second chances for anyone. If they refused to avail themselves of it the first time around, what's to say that they will not refuse the second time. Most refuse because they don't want to live a life patterned after a Celestial order. One of the greatest problems in human nature is the justification we give ourselves that what we are doing is our God given right. And, oddly, that is a true statement. Like the marshmallow experiment, many people are not willing to put off a right that they have NOW for more rights later. They cannot see beyond the marshmallow they have. I believe that if they had to chance, truly had the chance in life to obtained these blessings, they will pass it up when they are offered them again. We rise from the grave with the same spirit that went down into the grave. If we are filthy when we die, we will come out of the grave filthy still.

I explained this concept to a friend who told me of his own experience of attempting to swim across a lake to the other side, like the swimming the English Channel. He started with good intentions but halfway there, he just couldn't make it and had his friends haul him out of the water into their boat. He felt that the boat represented Christ. I told him, in this life, it does represent Christ, but in the next, Christ will not carry us to the other side of the lake in a boat. In the next life, our families, through promises made in the temple, sealed families can reach through the eternities and find and retrieve those who lived below their capabilities. However, there, there will be no boat. The journey for them must be made alone with encouragement, but there will be no boat, no rescue. Then, somewhere in the middle, they realize that they chose not to get married and didn't want the priesthood and so when the fatigue and pain and sorrow, that they must suffer themselves, hits. They will suddenly see the fruitlessness of such a pursuit. It's not impossible, but it is very painful and most will just give up thinking it not worth the pain and sorrow.

My take on your question is that as long as a person is following Christ, he is qualified for the Celestial Kingdom. It does not matter if they are modern Christian, Mormon, Hindu or Muslim, all are qualified because all are children of God. Of these, the good ones, the ones that do right, are often kept from learning of Christ and the ordinances by ignorance or the craftiness of man. However, once they learn and I think good people will grasp this concept right away, they will accept this gift with great joy. The saving ordinances are easy to accomplish. Living a Christ-centered life takes a lifetime.

I disagree about the no second chance theory. I think this philosophy, which is heavy laiden in the church doctrine, is incorrect and damaging. One of the main purposes of the spirit world and the millennium will be to rescue and save the prisoners because, as it says- "the prisoners shall go free".

[brotherofJared]

6 hours ago, Rob Osborn said:

I disagree about the no second chance theory. I think this philosophy, which is heavy laiden in the church doctrine, is incorrect and damaging. One of the main purposes of the spirit world and the millennium will be to rescue and save the prisoners because, as it says- "the prisoners shall go free".

That is why I said: "no mortal being is capable of determining if the person had a "first chance"". In other words, there is no second chance there wasn't a first chance. The gospel is carried to many people who reject it but are good people. Why is that? We just had the president of ASU speak at a BYU devotional. He is not a Mormon, may never be in this life. He filled a spot normally reserved for GA's. One might think, this guy had his chance and he passed it up. He stood in shoes that most of us would never dare tell anyone we've imagined we'd fill, much less actually fill. He gave a really good talk too. He probably won't join the church or get any of the ordinances done while in this life. Will he miss the boat? Most likely not. It is not our place to determine, even if the person willfully stayed out of the LDS church.

I would call this guy a dry Mormon, though I don't know if he would. The church needs these dry Mormons because they can do things that the church can't. They are an influence for good in the world and some of these have never even met a Mormon, much less heard the gospel. 

However, if one has received the gospel and rejected it, they're not going to get a second chance. I just can't identify who these people are.

Elder Bruce R McConkie once gave a talk about marriage and it's eternal nature. He was a bold one who I think sometimes stepped on his tongue while it was still in his mouth. In this talk, he talked about a faithful woman who was married to a reprobate who drank alcohol, smoked and cussed. His wife said to him, the husband, "You know the church is true. Why don't you stop all this stuff and marry me in the temple." (the quote is not exact). He said, "Why, Yes, I do know it's true, but I know that when I die, you'll take my name to the temple and marry me. There's no reason for me to straighten my life up. I'm enjoying myself." McConkie continued that He died and she took his name to the temple and got sealed to him and it was the biggest waste of time. That was a hard one for me to accept (which I still haven't). What was he advocating? Divorce? Does the church do that? What choice did she have? What consequences are in store for her as a result of her husband's actions. What consequences would be in store for her if she didn't do anything or even got a divorce and possibly never got married again? The consequences are too vast to contemplate, but I believe she followed the only course that she could. How could that be a waste of time?

But will her husband be able to do what he wants his whole mortal life and get the free ride to heaven on his wives coat tails? Is that the way it works? Well, I don't know if it does. I wouldn't judge the old man. Who knows. Maybe God needed him on the outside. Maybe he did good things that none of us knows about. Who am I to judge. If I was a teacher, I'd teach and council that that kind of life is not the way to go, that we have to make some kind of effort to follow Christ, but I don't know that I'd say he got his chance there'll be no second chance.

[Rob Osborn]

37 minutes ago, brotherofJared said:

That is why I said: "no mortal being is capable of determining if the person had a "first chance"". In other words, there is no second chance there wasn't a first chance. The gospel is carried to many people who reject it but are good people. Why is that? We just had the president of ASU speak at a BYU devotional. He is not a Mormon, may never be in this life. He filled a spot normally reserved for GA's. One might think, this guy had his chance and he passed it up. He stood in shoes that most of us would never dare tell anyone we've imagined we'd fill, much less actually fill. He gave a really good talk too. He probably won't join the church or get any of the ordinances done while in this life. Will he miss the boat? Most likely not. It is not our place to determine, even if the person willfully stayed out of the LDS church.

I would call this guy a dry Mormon, though I don't know if he would. The church needs these dry Mormons because they can do things that the church can't. They are an influence for good in the world and some of these have never even met a Mormon, much less heard the gospel. 

However, if one has received the gospel and rejected it, they're not going to get a second chance. I just can't identify who these people are.

Elder Bruce R McConkie once gave a talk about marriage and it's eternal nature. He was a bold one who I think sometimes stepped on his tongue while it was still in his mouth. In this talk, he talked about a faithful woman who was married to a reprobate who drank alcohol, smoked and cussed. His wife said to him, the husband, "You know the church is true. Why don't you stop all this stuff and marry me in the temple." (the quote is not exact). He said, "Why, Yes, I do know it's true, but I know that when I die, you'll take my name to the temple and marry me. There's no reason for me to straighten my life up. I'm enjoying myself." McConkie continued that He died and she took his name to the temple and got sealed to him and it was the biggest waste of time. That was a hard one for me to accept (which I still haven't). What was he advocating? Divorce? Does the church do that? What choice did she have? What consequences are in store for her as a result of her husband's actions. What consequences would be in store for her if she didn't do anything or even got a divorce and possibly never got married again? The consequences are too vast to contemplate, but I believe she followed the only course that she could. How could that be a waste of time?

But will her husband be able to do what he wants his whole mortal life and get the free ride to heaven on his wives coat tails? Is that the way it works? Well, I don't know if it does. I wouldn't judge the old man. Who knows. Maybe God needed him on the outside. Maybe he did good things that none of us knows about. Who am I to judge. If I was a teacher, I'd teach and council that that kind of life is not the way to go, that we have to make some kind of effort to follow Christ, but I don't know that I'd say he got his chance there'll be no second chance.

In spirit prison are those who sinned in ignorance and those who sinned in transgression having rejected the prophets. They are all taught the gospel, the same, whether its their first, second, or thousandth chance. 

BRM had a lot of great insights but he was also way off in so many other areas such as the story you gave above. 

[brotherofJared]

1 hour ago, Rob Osborn said:

In spirit prison are those who sinned in ignorance and those who sinned in transgression having rejected the prophets.

Not sure where you get this idea. Sin has nothing to do with spirit prison. It is not a jail. It is a place where the dead go because they don't know where else to go. They don't know Christ or the good news, even if they were Christians. Because of the apostasy, the Christ they were taught is not the Christ of their salvation. They simply don't know. 

It is not possible to sin in ignorance. It is also not possible to obtain the blessings of the gospel in ignorance either, but that ignorance is easy to dispell if they want to know. The sin in transgression, these will not want to come into the light. Anyone who has sinned against the light they had will not accept the gospel unless someone can convince them that it's worth it, usually family - and I'm not talking about living descendants. It will be the family they know. But the trickle down effect is in play here. As we do work for those we know, they in turn, if they accept it, turn to the ones they knew and so on.

I'm not denying that the wicked and ignorant will go there, but it's not because of sin that they go there. Spirit prison is a state of mind... IMO

[Rob Osborn]

22 minutes ago, brotherofJared said:

Not sure where you get this idea. Sin has nothing to do with spirit prison. It is not a jail. It is a place where the dead go because they don't know where else to go. They don't know Christ or the good news, even if they were Christians. Because of the apostasy, the Christ they were taught is not the Christ of their salvation. They simply don't know. 

It is not possible to sin in ignorance. It is also not possible to obtain the blessings of the gospel in ignorance either, but that ignorance is easy to dispell if they want to know. The sin in transgression, these will not want to come into the light. Anyone who has sinned against the light they had will not accept the gospel unless someone can convince them that it's worth it, usually family - and I'm not talking about living descendants. It will be the family they know. But the trickle down effect is in play here. As we do work for those we know, they in turn, if they accept it, turn to the ones they knew and so on.

I'm not denying that the wicked and ignorant will go there, but it's not because of sin that they go there. Spirit prison is a state of mind... IMO

Spirit prison is an actual place separate from paradise where the righteous are.