The "ex" relationship


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Every situation is different but I'm curious to see what the mainstream thought process here is. Assuming both parties remain on decent terms, what is a healthy and appropriate relationship between an ex-husband and ex-wife? And to what extent? Do you continue to celebrate or at the very least acknowledge birthdays? Do you continue to express appreciation on Mother's Day and Father's Day? Do you attend activities of mutual friends knowing that you will be mingling with your ex-significant other to some degree? Do you remain Facebook friends or stay connected via any other social media network? If yes to any of these, for how long do you do this and does committed courting or remarrying make a difference? And if you don't have children, does that change the scenarios? 

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This is something about the modern day culture that I really don't understand.  My attitude is this, if after a divorce I'm able to maintain a decent relationship, i.e. celebrate birthdays, express appreciation on Mother's Day/Father's Day, Facebook friends, etc. then why did they get divorced?  It's a real enigma to me-IMO most marriages are not "easy", they take effort, work, dedication, etc. and IMO the only legitimate reasons for divorce is Abuse and Adultery.

If Abuse has occurred to the point that it has destroyed my marriage, why in the world would I want to talk to this person after divorce?  If Adultery has destroyed my marriage, why would I want to talk to this person and maintain any relationship after marriage?  

The only things that should cause a divorce are acts that are so irreconcilable that maintaining any type of relationship after a divorce (besides those where it is necessary, i.e. kids) is pretty much impossible to the point where it is just forgive, forget and move on with life; if the divorce didn't occur for a reason that causes any relationship after the divorce to be irreconcilable .  . .. then why are they getting divorced?

I guess I just have a real bone to pick with the modern day "well we just didn't love each other anymore and didn't want to be married so we got divorced, we are still friends we just wanted the freedom to go have sex with other people".  Seriously, what kind of crap is that?

Edited by yjacket
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To the question about remarrying or courting; I think of a divorce like a death (and it is a death) and it is advised that when a spouse dies one should wait one month for every year you have been married before your date. . . I think that is probably a good rule of thumb for divorce; married for 10 years- probably want to wait about a year before you start dating.

As far as interacting with a ex-spouse with children . . .good luck!!!  That is a ball of weeds, you are now going to have different parenting styles, activities to coordinate, shuttling of children back and forth (what a nightmare!).

I don't know that children change the scenario much, except for the fact that getting divorced (without a legitimate reason-i.e. abuse/adultery) is a really, really dumb thing to do when it comes to children. The statistics back it up, children from broken homes have a whole host of problems that occur from a divorce.

Look a 5 year old, or even a 14 year old has no clue what divorce means-all they see is that the two people most important to them in their world do not value each other much anymore.  Their world-view on what it means to be a father/mother on what it means to be husband/wife will be dramatically distorted.

It is one of the few things I will instruct my children to do . . . if you meet someone from a divorced family- RUN, do not walk, RUN away; under no circumstances marry someone from a broken home.  The other aspects are marry someone from a similar ethno-socio-economic background- I guarantee your life will be much, much better off, you'll be much happier and be more likely to avoid some dangerous pitfalls in life.

Edited by yjacket
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You don't have to like someone to get along with them. If you have kids and/or mutual friends, there are definite benefits to acting nice in group settings. But I agree with @Jane_Doe about the one-on-one thing.

The worst thing that I see happen when marriages break up is when the exes badmouth and talk down about their previous partner to mutual acquaintances (whether that be friends or children). I am very glad my parents and divorced friends have chosen not to do that.

@yjacket are you honestly serious about the advice to run from someone who comes from a broken home? That's just absurd. What about the sins of the parents not being on the heads of the children? I understand that home may be the ideal place to learn about marital and family relations, but is it the only place? I would say not. Some of the strongest youth I know come from blended families while some of the most self centered youth I know come from two parent homes. I know a young man raised by a parent and a step parent who, in the same weekend, was sustained as a stake mission prep leader and married the daughter of one of the stake presidency. I know someone born into the covenant his parents are still keeping, and he's been twice divorced before 35. 

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Whatever the situation, you just do what you think is right.  If it is good for the children to celebrate mother's/father's day then do so.  With whom? (if they have both biological and step parents).  With whomever they feel more comfortable.

See them at social events?  Be cordial until such time as things get otherwise.

If they are simply negative people, it doesn't matter whether they are your ex or a person in the neighborhood, wouldn't it make sense to stay away from them?

If you take the divorce aspect out of it, how would you behave?

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8 hours ago, seashmore said:

 

@yjacket are you honestly serious about the advice to run from someone who comes from a broken home? That's just absurd. What about the sins of the parents not being on the heads of the children? I understand that home may be the ideal place to learn about marital and family relations, but is it the only place? I would say not. Some of the strongest youth I know come from blended families while some of the most self centered youth I know come from two parent homes. I know a young man raised by a parent and a step parent who, in the same weekend, was sustained as a stake mission prep leader and married the daughter of one of the stake presidency. I know someone born into the covenant his parents are still keeping, and he's been twice divorced before 35. 

Lol . . .nope I am dead serious.  Actually the scriptures says the sins are passed down to the third and fourth generation.  And the reason for this is not that God curses them, but that the second generation learns from the first generation and it takes a huge amount of energy and will to ensure that the mistakes of the first generation do not happen with the second generation.  I've seen it in my own life; I have seen how sins from 2 prior generations have affected and caused misery in my current generation; eventually though it can be weeded out.

I am 100% dead serious about advising my children to not marry or date someone from a broken home-they can ultimately do whatever they want ..  .but my advice is very, very sound.

I'm not sure how old you are, but I have learned a lot in my life and one thing I have learned is that the main mechanism whereby men and women learn relationships about how to treat, act, honor the opposite gender is in the home and from their parents.  It's certainly not the only way, but it is the main way.  Certainly there are plenty of anecdotes like the ones you stated above, but facts don't give a rip about your feelings.

https://www.mckinleyirvin.com/Family-Law-Blog/2012/October/32-Shocking-Divorce-Statistics.aspx

http://www.children-and-divorce.com/children-divorce-statistics.html  

Children from divorced homes are more likely to get divorced themselves, more likely to have emotional/mental problems, more likely to do worse in school, more likely to drop out of school, more likely to commit suicide.  Nothing good comes from divorce-it is a blight, a curse, and an evil upon this land.

Ultimately, the main reason why I would advocate my children run from children of divorced parents is that it tells me that the parents did not focus on their marriage, but something else (be it children, money, other individuals) was more important in their life than their spouse.  Children pick up on that and ultimately will (subconsciously or not) replicate that in their own life.

It's one of those things as you get older (i.e. mid 30s) you look at yourself and say . . . dang I'm just like my dad!!! or my mother!!! And once you recognize that as an adult, it takes a lot of very hard work to reprogram yourself to not be like your father or mother, etc.

Your anecdotes are quite frankly crap and are the exception not the rule.  The absolute best environment for children to be raised, to learn how to be a responsible adult and responsible marriage partner is in a stable marriage with no divorce.

But this advice would go for other things, do not be un-equally yolked in marriage.  The most important external factors in a stable marriage are 1) being raised in a stable family with mother and father, 2) coming from a similar culture-including religion, 3) coming from a similar economic background.  It might seem "discriminatory" or whatnot, but I don't really care-the objective is to have stable families and the best way to have stable families is to have two people who join together who come from a similar background who's personality and traits compliment each other.  

Divorce rates for first marriage is already at 30-40% . . . . wouldn't you do everything and anything in your power to lower that rate??  The more in dissimilar two people are, the greater likelihood that the marriage will have conflict and lead to divorce.  Difference is good, but too much difference leads to major conflict.  Men and women are already plenty different, so one would want to keep the external differences to a minimum.

Actually, probably one of the biggest reasons is that it distorts the view of proper male and female roles in marriage.  A girl raised from a divorced mother will more likely than not want to have a career (not good for a marriage), a boy raised from a divorced mother will prob. be okay with his wife working (not good for a marriage).  It will completely mess up how they think about marriage, what it means and what roles each person plays in the marriage-thus leading to conflict and more likely than not divorce.  

Why do you think people today are delaying marriage so much, delaying having children so much?  It ain't just b/c they feel like it.  It's b/c they have learned from their divorced parents (40% of children come from divorced homes) that marriage doesn't work, so why get married?  Why have children?  If you have children and get divorced life becomes very, very rough.  Best just to enjoy the "hook-up" culture with no commitments.

Divorce is evil and will be the ultimate root of destruction for this nation; destroy the family and you destroy a culture and a nation.

Edited by yjacket
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Very interesting opinions so far. Any more?

 

I lean towards Jane Doe's thinking. Keep it simple and don't get too involved. Why? There is a reason two people divorce. That doesn't mean you can't maintain civility but the 1-1 tie has ran its course; it is no longer. I know that my husband now and myself severed all ties from previous spouses/significant others. We did not stay in contact at all. It was the best thing for our marriage to be able to progress not having those connections with exes. 

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I'm learning towards Carb's idea - to take the divorce aspect out of the situation. If your friends with your former significant other, do with him as you would with a friend, and treat him as a friend. If your not friends, deal with him in the manner and to the extent required that will be good for your children, even if that might not always be pleasant for you. If you are not friends, and there are no children, then walk away and end things completely.

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1 hour ago, askandanswer said:

I'm learning towards Carb's idea - to take the divorce aspect out of the situation. If your friends with your former significant other, do with him as you would with a friend, and treat him as a friend. If your not friends, deal with him in the manner and to the extent required that will be good for your children, even if that might not always be pleasant for you. If you are not friends, and there are no children, then walk away and end things completely.

I think I would mostly agree with this, but with one modifier.

When you are around an ex, but are no longer married, that ex can sometimes be a source of temptation.  This goes double if either of you have remarried (and not remarried one another).

In that case, I would be careful about getting too chummy with your ex.  Kind of like former boyfriends and girlfriends - I used to wonder why people generally cannot be friends with a former significant other after breaking up.  I came to realize that enmity is actually protection - it keeps the ex from interfering in future relationships, including marriage.

Just something to keep in mind if you want to keep on being buddies with an ex-spouse.  

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I say, keep your distance, especially if remarried. If there are children involved, there needs to be some communication and civility, but imo, it should be kept to the basics of visitation dates and times, and other necessary information about the children - nothing more. IMO when there is too much fraternization going on between the parents after a divorce it sends the wrong signals to the children.  They won't understand why their parents got divorced if they are now such great friends.  And, if they are good friends, then perhaps they should have worked harder on their marriage.

Women should not be calling their ex and asking for help with car repairs, leaky faucets, etc.  Neither of them should be calling each other and sharing their disappointments, confidences, etc.

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16 hours ago, seashmore said:

@yjacket are you honestly serious about the advice to run from someone who comes from a broken home? That's just absurd. What about the sins of the parents not being on the heads of the children? I understand that home may be the ideal place to learn about marital and family relations, but is it the only place? I would say not. Some of the strongest youth I know come from blended families while some of the most self centered youth I know come from two parent homes. I know a young man raised by a parent and a step parent who, in the same weekend, was sustained as a stake mission prep leader and married the daughter of one of the stake presidency. I know someone born into the covenant his parents are still keeping, and he's been twice divorced before 35. 

I think you (and anyone else who is a child of divorce) have all the potential in the world to have a successful marriage!  (Your answer hinted that your own parents divorced - if I am making a wrong assumption, I apologize).

I do think that you need to be aware of picking up undesirable traits from your mother and father.  Why did they divorce?  How can you avoid making the same mistakes?  Are there any negative behaviors or attitudes you learned from them that perhaps you can do something about now before they explode into major problems?  Self awareness is the key.  Remember, you can overcome just about anything with the help of Christ and the atonement, but you may have to put some effort into it.

If my daughter were thinking about marrying someone from a broken home, I would not tell her to run for the hills.  I would tell her to pray about it, see what Heavenly Father has to say about it.  (That would be my advice for most issues with a potential spouse, from past sins to personality quirks to just about everything in between - pray about it, and decide whether this is a good person to marry with the help of the Lord).

Edited by DoctorLemon
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3 minutes ago, DoctorLemon said:

I think you (and anyone else who is a child of divorce) have all the potential in the world to have a successful marriage!  (Your answer hinted that your own parents divorced - if I am making a wrong assumption, I apologize).

I do think that you need to be aware of picking up undesirable traits from your mother and father.  Why did they divorce?  How can you avoid making the same mistakes?  Are there any negative behaviors or attitudes you learned from them that perhaps you can do something about now before they explode into major problems?  Self awareness is the key.  Remember, you can overcome just about anything with the help of Christ and the atonement, but you may have to put some effort into it.

If my daughter were thinking about marrying someone from a broken home, I would not tell her to run for the hills.  I would tell her to pray about it, see what Heavenly Father has to say about it.

 

I understand this and I respect this point of view . . .from my perspective I don't need HF to answer a prayer about whether I should date someone who has previously done drugs or been excommunicated or comes from a different culture.  HF expects me to be informed enough that I should be able to make a whole host of decisions without specifically needing to pray about it . . . . this is what training a child and teaching comes about.  I teach them these things now so that if it comes up in the future they already have a good idea of what choice to make.  If HF wanted me to marry someone from a broken home . . .well He better bring a lightening bolt.

I guess where I'm going is that I think too many times in life we say "well just pray about it", there is truth to that, but quite honestly we should also be taught well enough the order of things in life so that some things should be more self-evident rather than revelatory.

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2 hours ago, DoctorLemon said:

I think you (and anyone else who is a child of divorce) have all the potential in the world to have a successful marriage!  (Your answer hinted that your own parents divorced - if I am making a wrong assumption, I apologize).

I do think that you need to be aware of picking up undesirable traits from your mother and father.  Why did they divorce?  How can you avoid making the same mistakes?  Are there any negative behaviors or attitudes you learned from them that perhaps you can do something about now before they explode into major problems?  Self awareness is the key.  Remember, you can overcome just about anything with the help of Christ and the atonement, but you may have to put some effort into it.

If my daughter were thinking about marrying someone from a broken home, I would not tell her to run for the hills.  I would tell her to pray about it, see what Heavenly Father has to say about it.  (That would be my advice for most issues with a potential spouse, from past sins to personality quirks to just about everything in between - pray about it, and decide whether this is a good person to marry with the help of the Lord).

Yes, a broken home should serve as a yellow flag, not a red one. I say that as a child of a divorce. One year, my seminary class had four students who came from a dual active parent home, and the other half of the class came from either a divorced or part member parentage. During a marriage lesson, our seminary teacher, bless her heart, told us pretty much that just because it happened to our parents doesn't mean it would happen to us. A message I've taken to heart. I've looked deep at the collapse of my parent's marriage, and what I found is a big part of why I live so far away. I felt I would become more like my mother if I stayed, and I am confident that her misguided priorities and inattentiveness as a wife and mother had a lot to do with my dad's affair. Although she did teach me to not judge people by their family, so she's not all bad. ;-)

At my age, I'm more concerned about my mate being divorced than his parents! But, even then, I know it's best to look at the full picture. How recent is the divorce? Who initiated it and why? Are there children? Is she (the ex) off the charts crazy? Is he worthy? Is he worth it? 

I think there are two cabins in the "pray about it" camp. One is to ask a more open ended question, and one is to make a decision and pray for confirmation. I know the Lord responds to me best when I say, "this is what I would like to do. Are you good with it?" When I try the vague "what should I do?" I often get the impression that He knows I'm capable of drawing my own conclusions. 

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I grew up in a broken home. Am I screwed up because of it? Probably, but I'm also screwed up by a bunch of other stuff too. There are members in my ward that have perfect family pedigrees, perfect lives, the works. God bless them too! I'm always happy to see how the other side lives and how blessed they are. I think it's awesome when I see it. I especially love to meet those older couples that have been married longer than I have been alive. Good for them! 

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In principle, I agree with @yjacket. Coming from a broken home is no more a sin than, say, being sexually molested. But I would caution my child vociferously about marrying a victim of sexual abuse. Because you can be 99.3% sure that, if you marry a sexual abuse victim, you WILL suffer with her/him from the effects of that sexual abuse -- and you will suffer in intimate and excruciatingly painful ways. If you are man (or woman) enough to deal with that, all the best to you. But if you're looking for the best odds for making an eternal marriage, starting out your marriage by marrying a sexual abuse victim is a good way to start a half-mile back. I want the best for my child, so I don't want that. That is no reflection of the righteousness (or lack thereof) of the sexual abuse victim; it's merely a sober-eyed recognition of the severity of emotional damage done to such a person.

The same logic applies to marrying someone from a broken home. Where do you think they get their model of marriage? Where do they get their idea for how to handle disagreement and even discord? Many have had such models and overcome them, but those "many" are still a minority.

In the end, no one is perfect, even someone who comes from a loving home and never suffered sexual abuse. Obviously, I would much rather my child marry an honest, good-hearted child of divorce (or sexual abuse victim, or child of an unmarried mother) than an abusive sociopath from a "good" home. But rarely is a choice so stark, and rarely can we see that deeply into the souls of those we befriend at a young age. So you do the best you can and look out for the obvious flags.

Look, if Little Freddie is justified in refusing to marry Sally because she's a redhead (or fat, or albino, or from Canada, or has acne, or is a Democrat, or has a hairy chin, or smells like Grandma, or chews with her mouth open, or whatever other lame reason bothers Little Freddie), why would anyone consider it beyond the pale for Freddy to refuse to consider marrying Sally because of her family history of poor or abusive relationships?

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9 hours ago, Vort said:

Where do you think they get their model of marriage? Where do they get their idea for how to handle disagreement and even discord?

From their grandparent, aunts and uncles, leaders from their church or community.  A child's view is much larger than just mom and dad. (Although mom and dad do make the first impression) I guess it's hard for people to understand if they haven't gone through it themselves (and I know they will argue there point to the end) but there are many other ways to model and shape your ideas of life besides mom and dad. 

Edited by miav
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4 hours ago, miav said:

From their grandparent, aunts and uncles, leaders from their church or community.  A child's view is much larger than just mom and dad. (Although mom and dad do make the impression) I guess it's hard for people to understand if they haven't gone through it themselves (and I know they will argue there point to the end) but there are many other ways to model and shape your ideas of life besides mom and dad. 

No, it's not just that the make the impression, it's that they make the main impression  . . .prob. somewhere around 75%. Why do you think totalitarian governments across the world and history always attempt to take children from their parents as soon as possible and indoctrinate them. There are other ways to model and shape life besides mom and dad and for those who grew up in broken homes, are self-aware enough to understand what caused it, change within themselves to ensure it doesn't happen.  I say Kudos! Bravo! your task is so much harder and it is fantastic that you have succeeded against the odds.

All I'm saying is to just recognize the odds-that if you have done so the vast majority of your peers in similar circumstances would not do so. There are always exceptions to the rule and I can't say enough good things about those who do succeed against the odds; it shows tremendous amount of grit, determination, self introspection, etc.  That road is very long and very hard but worth it.

But for a generic child of divorce-the odds are not in your favor.  Again, just look at the statistics-they are horrific. IMO much of life is about odds, probabilities and chances. We each like to think we are special, that we are the one who will beat the odds, that the person we marry who comes from a divorced home .. .they aren't like the others. But reality shows that train of thought is just fantasy-maybe the child from a divorced home is different . . .but most likely they aren't.  

I've found much of life is setting ourselves up to succeed and then when the opportunity strikes we are ready and able to do so; luck is just when preparation meets opportunity.  The same principle applies in work, marriage, school, life in general. People say "oh you are so lucky you have a good job, or you are so lucky you have great kids, or you are so lucky you have a great wife" . . .most of that saying is utter crap. You aren't "lucky" you have a good job, you studied very hard, worked very hard, went to a good school, prepared well for interviews, worked hard at lower paying jobs so when the opportunity came to have a good job or a great job you were well prepared, ready and able to jump on it. You aren't "lucky" you have great, well-behaved kids. You took the time to understand what it means to raise children, you disciplined properly, you taught correct principles and your children follow them.  You aren't "lucky" you have a great marriage, you married someone who is dedicated to the idea, principle and concept of marriage who works together as a partner and who has prepared themselves to be a great partner, they have seen great marriages in their life, understand what it takes to make one and do it.

Just b/c you did well in school doesn't mean you'll have a great job, just b/c you marry someone who comes from a stable home doesn't mean you'll have a great marriage, just b/c you raise your kids properly doesn't mean they will be awesome.  But you'll have a lot better chances and much better "luck" in life if you do!

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10 hours ago, seashmore said:

I've looked deep at the collapse of my parent's marriage, and what I found is a big part of why I live so far away. I felt I would become more like my mother if I stayed, and I am confident that her misguided priorities and inattentiveness as a wife and mother had a lot to do with my dad's affair.

Kudos to you to understanding this, recognizing it and working to change yourself, that is very wise and shows great insight into your past.  You appear to be much older and thus more aware of life in general.  Now the question is? Would you have this understanding at age 20? at age 25?  Most people (at the time of marriage) would not be aware enough of this and would fall into the same trap.  In fact, even if you are aware of it, if you are married you will most likely have to work very hard to ensure that you do not do the same thing as your mother-even if you are consciously aware of it.

Edited by yjacket
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Divorced and remarried guy here. 

When I got divorced I got primary custody over our four children. I tried to do what I thought was the Christ-like thing and keep my ex updated and used to encourage the kids on holidays to reach out and acknowledge her. I've since remarried and it took 5-6 years to realize it's not my responsibility to maintain a relationship with my ex or to encourage my kids to keep in touch. I moved across the country and she could have easily followed and been a part of her kids lives. But she chose not to. I don't speak ill of my ex wife and listen with a sympathetic ear when the kids feel frustrated about their mom or step mom. It's not my responsibility to make sure anyone gets along. I don't correct anyone's feelings whether or not I think those feelings are are wrong or right. With my ex-wife I feel commanded to be kind but that does not mean an obligation to maintain some kind of relationship. My job is to simply love those who are placed in my path whether by my own choice or by the will of Heavenly Father. 

Regarding Children of divorce, I honestly think it really depends. They have an opportunity to see and experience, in a way, how a marriage can fail and take steps to ensure success in their own marriages. In my experience those who come from broken families are far from doomed. In my immediate family of 6 kids there are two divorces and in both divorces, myself and my brothers, the parties all came from intact homes. The four remaining marriages that are going strong all involve spouses that come from broken homes. This same trend extends to my cousins as well. The other two divorces were couples who came from intact homes. So I can't agree with yjacket. 

BTW, my Father was molested for years by his uncle. Nothing even close to that ever occurred in my family. Same with my ex wife, she was never inappropriate with our kids in anyway.  

Not so certain about the sins visiting on the heads of the children with that atonement thing getting in the way.

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2 hours ago, yjacket said:

No, it's not just that the make the impression, it's that they make the main impression  

I went and changed because I meant first impression. And I know there is nothing I can say to make you understand why you are wrong.  Heavenly Father makes it so all his children can be successful in their lives, despite that challenges or trials we face.

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13 minutes ago, miav said:

I went and changed because I meant first impression. And I know there is nothing I can say to make you understand why you are wrong.  

Because I'm not wrong. What part about statistics do you not understand? I quote the facts, but you ignore them.  

It's the one thing I've learned in life-people make the emotional decision and then ignore facts that counter their emotional decision.  The facts, the statistics, everything we know about divorce shows that it leads to major, major problems for children and when they are adults.

Point blank, do you dispute the statistics?

"Heavenly Father makes it so all his children can be successful in their lives, despite that challenges or trials we face."

Please, point me to where I ever said anything contrary to this.  I firmly believe this statement.  We all have free agency to choose and to become successful regardless of how we were raised or by whom.  Yet, the truth is that one is more likely to be successful if raised in a stable home.

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31 minutes ago, Windseeker said:

Regarding Children of divorce, I honestly think it really depends. They have an opportunity to see and experience, in a way, how a marriage can fail and take steps to ensure success in their own marriages. In my experience those who come from broken families are far from doomed. In my immediate family of 6 kids there are two divorces and in both divorces, myself and my brothers, the parties all came from intact homes. The four remaining marriages that are going strong all involve spouses that come from broken homes. This same trend extends to my cousins as well. The other two divorces were couples who came from intact homes. So I can't agree with yjacket. 

BTW, my Father was molested for years by his uncle. Nothing even close to that ever occurred in my family. Same with my ex wife, she was never inappropriate with our kids in anyway.  

Not so certain about the sins visiting on the heads of the children with that atonement thing getting in the way.

Okay, that is great you are using an anecdotal case (I understand that for some reason with humans, anecdotal cases carry at least twice the weight of raw facts and statistics). Bravo for those who stayed together.  Statistics say that your anecdotal case is not normal-it is an exception.

What part of statistics do people not understand?  If statistics say children from divorced home have a 15% higher likelihood of divorce, yet your anecdotal case shows the opposite . . .congratulations count yourself lucky to buck the trend. 

Just know that your anecdotal case is not the norm. Just like the statistics show beyond a doubt that a child raised in an abusive home is more likely to be abusive.

Count yourself lucky that the abuse did not pass down to the next generation. Just know that it is more an exception to the rule rather than the rule itself.

Edited by yjacket
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If you want to talk about red flags, not liking country music is a red flag for me.  I mean, what kind of "spouse" doesn't like Merle Haggard, or Hank Williams, or at least Johnny Cash?  Not liking country music is a red flag that there is something seriously wrong, perhaps even evil, about someone.  :) 

All joking aside, I do agree that people have a right to choose how much baggage they want to deal with in a marriage (and we all have baggage, whether we would like to admit it or not).  The thing I would find to be troubling wouldn't be the microeconomics (e.g., @Vort would not want to marry a girl who came from a broken home - it is none of my business what Vort wants in a spouse and I am fine if he doesn't want to marry someone from a broken home, or a blonde, or someone who never went to college, or whatever) but the macroeconomics, that is to say, if everyone decided that children of broken homes should not be marrying good Mormon kids, you would be cutting very good people out of very good blessings over something that is really not their fault.  You would create a Mormon underclass, which would be most undesirable indeed.

I guess that is where people like me come in.  I couldn't care less if a girl came from a broken home - I care about who she currently is.  It wouldn't even be a yellow flag for me personally.  If we started dating and I realized she likes to fight and quarrel a lot (maybe she learned that from her parents' failed marriage), that may be a red flag.  But for DoctorLemon personally, coming from a broken home would not be a dealbreaker.

Edited by DoctorLemon
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15 minutes ago, DoctorLemon said:

If you want to talk about red flags, not liking country music is a red flag for me.  I mean, what kind of "spouse" doesn't like Merle Haggard, or Hank Williams, or at least Johnny Cash?  Not liking country music is a red flag that there is something seriously wrong, perhaps even evil, about someone.  :) 

All joking aside, I do agree that people have a right to choose how much baggage they want to deal with in a marriage (and we all have baggage, whether we would like to admit it or not).  The thing I would find to be troubling wouldn't be the microeconomics (e.g., @Vort would not want to marry a girl who came from a broken home) but the macroeconomics, that is to say, if everyone decided that children of broken homes should not be marrying good Mormon kids, you would be cutting very good people out of very good blessings over something that is really not their fault.  You would create a Mormon underclass, which would be most undesirable indeed.

I guess that is where people like me come in.  I couldn't care less if a girl came from a broken home - I care about who she currently is.  It wouldn't even be a yellow flag for me personally.  If we started dating and I realized she likes to fight and quarrel a lot (maybe she learned that from her parents' failed marriage), that may be a red flag.  But for DoctorLemon personally, coming from a broken home would not be a dealbreaker.

No you wouldn't have everybody being unmarried.  It's called do not be unequally yolked.

For the last paragraph . . .that's great, bully for you. . . except come back to me in 10 years when you want to complain about this or that in your marriage and you realize . . .oh well her mom hated her dad b/c he did xyz and divorced him b/c of blah and now she hates me b/c of xyz.  

It's actually quite funny, people like to deny that this happens (and IMO they deny it b/c they don't want to seem "judgmental or discriminatory" and/or they think they are the exception-yet it does-it happens all the time.  Divorce rate is 40%, 40%, don't you think you'd want to do everything in your power to make sure your marriage isn't in the 40%.

And then people think that after a year of dating, they really know someone-I got news for you-you don't. As if in a year of dating, you are really going to know how they are going to act when they have kids, when they get in fights, when they are taking care of a house, when they are working, etc..  You don't and you can't.  All you can go by is the current way they live their life and by how they were raised.

50 years ago this was known as "they come from good stock".  If you come from "good stock" and they come from "good stock" you are more likely than not going to be "equally yolked", if you come from "good stock" and they don't, a higher likelihood that you will be "unequally yolked".  This isn't hard, it's not complex---it's just common sense (which unfortunately in today's world has gone out the window).

Shoot, it's why the saying goes, if you want to know how a man treats his wife, look at how he treats his mother and a whole host of other pithy sayings about looking for a spouse and their family.  But common sense has flown right out the window in the modern culture.

Edited by yjacket
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