Church Leaders on Mental Health

[anatess2]

31 minutes ago, DoctorLemon said:

@pam Check this out!  There is a whole museum dedicated to exposing the "evils" of psychiatry.  

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychiatry:_An_Industry_of_Death

(I warned you - I know it is bad, but I can't resist making these kinds of comments when this subject comes up!)

 

21 minutes ago, pam said:

Well that's a museum I will never be visiting.

 

See, this is exactly the result of @yjacket's position on the matter.  And like I said - it is harmful.

I know yjacket is a great guy and he is prone to hard-lining.  Besides people getting offended, what he says usually is helpful in terms of being the "anchor guy in a tug of war" that is needed to stop a position from shifting down the slippery slope.  This time, though... he is anchoring something that should not be anchored so it is harmful.

And that's all I'm gonna say about that.

Edited June 9, 2017 by anatess2

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

 

 

See, this is exactly the result of @yjacket's position on the matter.  And like I said - it is harmful.

I know yjacket is a great guy and he is prone to hard-lining.  Besides people getting offended, what he says usually is helpful in terms of being the "anchor guy in a tug of war" that is needed to stop a position from shifting down the slippery slope.  This time, though... he is anchoring something that should not be anchored so it is harmful.

And that's all I'm gonna say about that.

Well I think when it comes to this subject, you are glib.  GLIB!

(sorry, again I couldn't resist.  Tom Cruise reference to this subject, in case anyone is wondering what I am babbling about)

[anatess2]

5 minutes ago, DoctorLemon said:

Well I think when it comes to this subject, you are glib.  GLIB!

(sorry, again I couldn't resist.  Tom Cruise reference to this subject, in case anyone is wondering what I am babbling about)

LOL!  I remembered that!  Yeah, Tom Cruise got in trouble with Brooke Shields on that one.  And that's just another perfect example - hormones are chemicals.  It's close to undeniable that post-partum depression is caused by hormones going out of whack.  Yes, you can overcome post-partum depression by clinging harder to gospel teachings.  Yes, in worst cases, you might end up drowning your kids in the bathtub before you succeed in overcoming it.

Edited June 9, 2017 by anatess2

[pam]

47 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

LOL!  I remembered that!  Yeah, Tom Cruise got in trouble with Brooke Shields on that one.  And that's just another perfect example - hormones are chemicals.  It's close to undeniable that post-partum depression is caused by hormones going out of whack.  Yes, you can overcome post-partum depression by clinging harder to gospel teachings.  Yes, in worst cases, you might end up drowning your kids in the bathtub before you succeed in overcoming it.

It was the whole thing between Tom Cruise and Brooke Shields that has made me sooooooo NOT a fan of Cruise.  I haven't gone to see a movie of his since that whole thing happened.

[pam]

For the record....I can respect @yjacket's position on this.  I may not agree with it but I can respect his opinion.

[anatess2]

1 minute ago, pam said:

For the record....I can respect @yjacket's position on this.  I may not agree with it but I can respect his opinion.

Me too!  And that's really why I hate going toe-to-toe with him on it! 

[The Folk Prophet]

3 hours ago, pam said:

It was the whole thing between Tom Cruise and Brooke Shields that has made me sooooooo NOT a fan of Cruise.  I haven't gone to see a movie of his since that whole thing happened.

Man alive. If I didn't go see any shows if the star(s) had said some nutty thing or done some nutty thing....

[mirkwood]

That would be like not listening to good music because the band has crappy political beliefs.

[mirkwood]

Just now, mirkwood said:

That would be like not listening to good music because the band has crappy political beliefs.

Queue a good music remark from @MormonGator in 3...2...1...

[Guest Godless]

43 minutes ago, mirkwood said:

That would be like not listening to good music because the band has crappy political beliefs.

Tell that to the Dixie Chicks (oh wait, you said GOOD music ).

I think it depends on the audience. Liberalism is a kiss of death for a country band, but it seems that plenty of rock bands do okay despite expressing conservative views that may be unpopular. 

And then you have guys like Glenn Danzig and Maynard who can say whatever they want because one is insane and the other hates everyone, especially his fans.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, mirkwood said:

That would be like not listening to good music because the band has crappy political beliefs.

One of my favorite bands is the Drive By Truckers, and they are just about the most liberal country band I am aware of.

I am conservative, largely (but not completely) because of my Mormonism.  However in real life I don't let my politics get in the way of relationships.  Same goes for my music, etc.

[Guest MormonGator]

1 hour ago, mirkwood said:

Queue a good music remark from @MormonGator in 3...2...1...

 I think most non liberals who like punk have to accept the fact that none of our favorite musicians will agree with our politics. Metal is slightly different but it's still not really a bastion for right leaning people. 

[The Folk Prophet]

2 hours ago, mirkwood said:

That would be like not listening to good music because the band has crappy political beliefs.

Lady Gaga?

[Guest Godless]

3 hours ago, MormonGator said:

 I think most non liberals who like punk have to accept the fact that none of our favorite musicians will agree with our politics. Metal is slightly different but it's still not really a bastion for right leaning people. 

One of the more interesting reads in my book collection is a collection of emails (which they mutually agreed to publish) between (Dr) Greg Graffin and a history professor who is both a devout Christian and a big fan of Bad Religion. 

Also, while testing the CD burn method of salvaging iTunes purchases discussed in another thread (and it totally works), I discovered not one but TWO different Christian hardcore bands that I had purchased music from years ago. I'd be lying if I said I wasn't rocking out to those bands for a few days afterward. I obviously can't relate much to the lyrics, but it has that hard-hitting sound that I tend to gravitate toward, so the message doesn't bother me much. 

[yjacket]

12 hours ago, anatess2 said:

See, this is exactly the result of @yjacket's position on the matter.  And like I said - it is harmful.

I know yjacket is a great guy and he is prone to hard-lining.  Besides people getting offended, what he says usually is helpful in terms of being the "anchor guy in a tug of war" that is needed to stop a position from shifting down the slippery slope.  This time, though... he is anchoring something that should not be anchored so it is harmful.

And that's all I'm gonna say about that.

I do respect your opinions anatess.  I think we are probably closer than we are farther apart.  I do recognize I take a hard-line stance on many things.  Sometimes for good, sometimes for bad.

I will tell you were my hard-line stance comes from (and I don't want to re-engage in a discussion, I'm just asking questions as things to think about).

What is our spirit?  Where does it reside?  What is the nature of our spirit? What does psychology tell us about the spirit? Does our spirit consist of our thoughts? does it consist of our feelings?  I have to imagine that it does as I don't see a way for a pre-mortal existence to work without thoughts and feelings. If it does, then what part of our physical body consists of spirit feelings/thoughts and bodily feelings/thoughts?  I can't imagine we felt physical hunger-so sure physical hunger would be a bodily feeling?  What about sadness? What about anger, hope, elation, etc.?  I have to imagine we could feel all those things in spirit.  If we could, does our physical body augment those feelings/thoughts, does it influence them?  If we can feel the Spirit of God (i.e. goodness) can we not also feel the spirit of evil (mind you-you don't have to be a bad person or do bad things to feel an evil spirit-it can draw it in-but it's not necessary).

Does psychology address any of the issues with the spirit?  No, in the psychology viewpoint we are little more than a moist robot.  We have inputs, we have outputs, we have internal components, we have internal circuit boards. Who we are, our personality, our feelings, our thoughts, everything about who we are comes from that circuit board inside of us, i.e. the brain.  That to change our feelings our thoughts, etc. all we need to do is regulate the brain-modify it somehow.

I believe the spirit and the body are intertwined, especially at the emotional/mental level.  There are rare cases where it is obvious there is massive problem with the physicality of the brain.  But 18% of the US population, no I don't believe that.  Especially when you start to look over different culture, and time periods. That ~20% of the population has something drastically wrong with their brain.  No, I don't believe that at all. Do I believe at least 20% of the population has something wrong with their spirit . . . yes absolutely. The Spirit and the body are connected, and to treat only what we think are physical symptoms to a problem that significantly resides in the spiritual (i.e. how we think and feel) is a travesty and disregards the Power of God. 

There is so much that we don't understand about the brain.  Quite frankly, I personally think there are things we aren't meant to understand about it in this lifetime.

Did you know about the Pineal gland? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pineal_gland#Drug_metabolism

It was known anciently as the "third eye" or the "seat of the soul", the "God's eye".  Guess what it does: "The pineal gland produces melatonin, a serotonin derived hormone which modulates sleep patterns in both circadian and seasonal cycles."

It's not isolated from the blood-brain barrier . . i.e. things injected into the blood stream will go to the pineal gland.

"Rick Strassman, an author and Clinical Associate Professor of Psychiatry at the University of New Mexico School of Medicine, has theorized that the human pineal gland is capable of producing the hallucinogen N,N-dimethyltryptamine (DMT) under certain circumstances."

Is it possible that are spirit resides there? That some people somehow are able to active the pineal gland, receive visions, etc. . . .who knows? By what process did JS actually see a Vision? Do spiritual things affect the pineal gland and it's secretions?  Maybe, who knows?

I'm 100% okay with and agree with nueroscientist investigating the brain understanding it more, etc. 

What I'm not okay with is the psychology field, presenting as fact things they don't know.  They present as fact that people have a chemical imbalance . . .when they don't know if it is actually a chemical imbalance or not.  Chemical imbalance is just as helpful as saying "yes, there is something wrong b/c you have deep lasting depression"

The psychology field tries to set itself up as this almighty field that has the answer, to just trust them, they know what they are doing-when they don't. Their prescription of drugs is not more or less valid than, using prayer, using meta-science, acupuncture or any other field of medicine that delves into this realm.

They don't know, the one's who are honest admit they don't know, they admit it's only theory and reliable double-blind studies on the efficacy of the drugs demonstrate that fact.

And I have personally witnessed it.  I've personally witnessed someone with DID (which is one of the hardest mental illnesses to crack)  receive more healing, more therapy, integration of personalities, more wholeness, etc. from laymen just simply applying the Gospel of Jesus Christ than they received in decades of taking medical pills. So much so that the psychologist (who is a member) was stunned and awestruck and the DID individual was able to stop taking pills.

The Power of the Atonement of Jesus Christ is real and more powerful than we can possibly imagine.

 

Edited June 10, 2017 by yjacket

[seashmore]

On 6/9/2017 at 5:28 AM, yjacket said:

What progress? Please point me to the progress.  Great we give people drugs that make them happy (but that isn't even really verified in double-blind studies).  We still have no idea what the underlying reasons are for it.  That's progress?  Believing in a paradigm that isn't proven (and may never be proven, i.e. chemical imbalances) is progress?  

How is a "professional" going to fix a problem that they don't even know what the problem is?  It's not a matter of "there is no gas in the tank and you have a leaky tank".  It's a "you're car won't start, and we don't know why your car won't start", but we think it's something related to a chemical.

...

If that is progress, like I've said before mental health industry is like the 1700s and blood-letting.

We are more selective with electroshock therapy. I call that progress.

No, I don't have evidence-I have common sense, wisdom, and experience. Something this world is sorely lacking, along with an understanding of the difference between "your" and "you're."