12 yr old testimony drama


NeuroTypical
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If you haven't seen the hidden camera video of the 12 yr old giving her prepared speech 'testimony' about being a lesbian, this link is a fine way to learn about what happened, and what really happened.

https://www.fairmormon.org/blog/2017/06/18/testimonies-twelve-year-olds

 

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We had an incident about six months ago where some teenaged girl no one had ever seen before came onto the stand and passionately upbraided us all for what she saw as the excessive use of smart phones during the testimony meeting.  

As with so much else in Mormonism--it isn't what you say; it's how you say it . . .

Edited by Just_A_Guy
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I saw a link to that Fair Mormon thing on Facebook today. First I'd heard of it.

It reminded me of how my mother, when on her mission where she and my father taught institute, told me of how one of their students raised their hands in class and then proceeded to testify how God had revealed to them that they (or someone they knew) were supposed to live in a gay relationship (or something like that...it's been a while and I don't remember the details). I remember thinking (and asking), how does one deal with such things?

It's a tough world we live in.

Edited by The Folk Prophet
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40 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

We had an incident about six months ago where some teenaged girl no one had ever seen before came onto the stand and passionately upbraided us all for what she saw as the excessive use of smart phones during the testimony meeting.  

I sware (sic) . . . what is wrong with kids these days.  I have a relative who's daughter decided it was okay to stand up in F&T and call out all the kids in the ward who were being mean, ugly, etc.  Thankfully, her dad is a good guy-he actually went up on the stand and pulled her off . . .bravo Dad!, bravo!

I really believe it goes back to how our culture treats children.  We have brainwashed ourselves into treating children like adults, instead of treating them like children! Therefore, a significant portion of children these days have absolutely 0 fear of adults. I don't mean fear in a bad way, just that when I was growing up (dang, I feel old and I'm really not that old!!), you rightfully were afraid of what the teacher would do if you did something bad, what your dad would do when you did something bad, and you didn't want to do anything that would embarrass your parents b/c if you did-you were gonna get it too!

You looked up to and revered adults, now every 12 year-old girl thinks she is an adult with the capacity to make such life changing decisions as this.  Despicable the world we have created.

And it starts so little-allow a child 5,6,9, the ability to interrupt his parents any time he pleases or rule the roost and this is exactly what happens.

Edited by yjacket
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23 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

I remember thinking (and asking), how does one deal with such things?

Actually, I think it's pretty simple.  You tell them they are wrong.  The Gospel has a couple of principle's when it comes to authority.  

Revelation that one receives that is contrary to what has been revealed to the Prophets is almost always wrong . . .or if it is not wrong should almost always be kept silent.  Maybe one day they can be a Prophet, then they can make that claim . . .or they can start their own church-unless and until then quite simply they are wrong and are in need of repentance.  If they don't repent, they will be in the grasp of the Adversary.

Pretty easy, pretty plain, and pretty simple.

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1 minute ago, yjacket said:

Actually, I think it's pretty simple.  You tell them they are wrong.  The Gospel has a couple of principle's when it comes to authority.  

Revelation that one receives that is contrary to what has been revealed to the Prophets is almost always wrong . . .or if it is not wrong should almost always be kept silent.  Maybe one day they can be a Prophet, then they can make that claim . . .or they can start their own church-unless and until then quite simply they are wrong and are in need of repentance.  If they don't repent, they will be in the grasp of the Adversary.

Pretty easy, pretty plain, and pretty simple.

I agree in theory. In practice, and specifically the how of it, a bit more difficult I think.

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I feel sorry for the twelve year old, but the ward leadership did the right thing by cutting off her mic. If I walked up there and talked about my love of weed and booze they'd probably do the same thing. People are going to use this a stick to beat the church with.

What bothers me is I've seen some people say the church violated her "free speech" rights. First off, she's a minor and doesn't have free speech rights and second, you don't have free speech rights in a church! 

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22 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

I agree in theory. In practice, and specifically the how of it, a bit more difficult I think.

I totally get it . . .and that's why maybe the older I've gotten the more "bold" I've gotten . . .mostly b/c of a couple principles of leadership I've learned.  

The older that I've gotten the more that I have realized how people recognize authority and why they do and ultimately it comes from two sources, the first and most important comes from being in a position that is rightfully given that authority, i.e. a parent or a teacher, or a bishop, etc.  Some positions of authority come from a calling and some are natural (like being a father). So some people recognize others authority simply b/c of the position they are in.

The second is by how the authority figure acts and talks.  If an authority figure does not "act" the part-he will quickly lose the respect of those he leads.  Note, "acting" the part doesn't mean one is dictatorial or authoritarian; it means one is authoritative. In other words, when a decision needs to be made, the authority figure acts quickly, decisively, without hesitation and without remorse, and acts like he is in charge . . .well b/c he is.

The same principle applies when leading children (which is what parents are really doing) as to when leading men; be direct, concise and use as few as words as possible.  As a teacher, or a Bishop, or in any leadership position, knowing the bounds of the authority is important.  For a teacher, it is critical that correct doctrine be taught-so that means a) knowing when incorrect doctrine is being taught and then b) moving decisively to correct that incorrect doctrine.  For some reason in today's society, people seem to think that correcting involves someone being "mean" and it is a common retort of those who are being corrected . . .well he is just being "mean".  What they are really saying is, I don't like the fact that I'm being corrected on this point of doctrine.

And that is what is happening above.  Those who do not listen to, do not want to listen to and want to undermine the Bishop's authority proclaim him as being a "mean, nasty, hurtful" man.  

What they are really saying and meaning (coached in veiled words) is "I reject the Bishop's or Stake President's authority".  And anyone who follows that line of thinking needs to be real careful b/c soon they might just find themselves on the outside of the Church.

It is one of the reason's why I will defend those who are in authority positions tooth and nail.  Leaders are not perfect, far from it, they make plenty of mistakes; but unless they have committed a grievous sin that would remove them from their position, it is my job as a faithful member to fully support them.  Just b/c I support them, doesn't mean I agree with all their decisions, I don't have to-but I fully recognize their legitimate authority and support them in the decisions they do make.

(sidenote and I don't want to sidetrack: whether or not people agree with him, this is the reason why Trump was elected . . .out of all the other candidates he was the one who possessed the greatest leadership qualities.  I disagree with plenty of Trump things, but you don't get to be the head of a billion dollar organization without being a very strong leader.  It is why he could get away with saying things that would normally absolutely bury anyone else)

Edited by yjacket
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My cousin posted the video and stated something to like, " I love the Mormon church and it's teaching but can not stand by an support them while they continue to shutdown and exclude others" Basically it was her coming out statement that she was no long an active member of the church.  I wish I had this article because I would have replied with it, it says exactly what I wanted to say, in the end I decided to scroll past and not add fuel to her fire.

I actually feel bad for Savannah. I feel her parents used her for their agenda. From the article, "As this girl’s parents know, Fast and Testimony meeting isn’t a place for giving speeches, which is what she did. She had her speech all written out and read it from the pulpit. I wish her parents had talked with her more about appropriate forums and venues. This isn’t about whether a girl is struggling with her sexuality, or about how a Church leader handled it. This is a clear case of hijacking a meeting, promoting false teachings, and exploiting a child’s inexperience to create a media event. Savannah was likely allowed to say much more from the pulpit than an adult would have been allowed to say."

The parents wanted to make a statement they knew they would get more sympathy if a 12 year old was asked to sit down verses an adult being asked to. They knew what would happen and they didn't protect their daughter. Too many parents now use their kids as pawns to their political or controversial views.

Edited by miav
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Back in like ~2002 we had a girl who came out as a lesbian during Girl's Camp, after a bunch of tents got flooded so we were pack in the few dry tents like sardines.  She was very upset and trying to figure things out.  Everyone, girls and leaders, were 100% supportive of her and did everything we could to help her.  That's how a ward can be supportive of someone going through things and getting honest conversation going.  Hijacking the F&T podium isn't the way.

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19 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

.  Everyone, girls and leaders, were 100% supportive of her 

That's the biggest misconception out there about us. That we somehow hate or dislike gays just because we aren't in favor of gay marriage. Nothing is further from the truth. 

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In a similar vein:https://heatst.com/culture-wars/women-only-spa-labled-transphobic-over-its-no-male-genitals-policy/

I can't wait for all this junk to stop, people finally stand up and say enough!  I'm probably one of the most libertarian individuals out there. If you want to believe you are a squirrel; if you want to be homosexual, claim it is your destiny to mate with your own kind-be my guest, I've got no problem with you believing whatever fantasy you want to.  

But I draw the line when you tell me that I must acquiesce to your reality and that if I don't-I'm the evil person.   It's really quite sad at how many people just simply follow the crowd on this stuff.  They are what Lenin described as the "useful idiots" who don't really know what they are doing except that they are putting pressure on the system.

It's a war promulgated by evil men who have evil designs influenced by evil spirits.  The word for it in the modern day culture is "postmodernism" or post-modern philosophy.  It is the thought and theory that truth is relative, truth is not objective and that anyone who doesn't believe in your truth is a bad person. It's a really bad thing and it's what is being taught in schools-truth is relative.

Just project out 30 years .  .where does this lead? To what end? If it is this bad now for individuals who defend truth (as given to us by scriptures and prophets), how much more worse is it going to get?  

It's gonna get interesting in my lifetime that's for sure!

Personally, I believe it all started with acceptance of homosexual behavior as totally acceptable.  We still don't know to this day why some people have homosexual behaviors and tendencies; all we know is that God has commanded us to put off the natural man (whatever natural tendencies we have) and to become like Him and He has promised us that it is possible to do so.

This idea that we are perfect "just the way we are" is utter and absolute horse doogy and is probably more destructive to the Gospel message than anything else.  No, we are not perfect "just the way we are", we are sinful (i.e. non-perfect), fallen sons and daughters of God who have the potential to become perfect as we change our very nature to align to God's Will.

Edited by yjacket
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Hopefully they grow out of it. I had a buddy in childhood who went off the deep end in jr high and high school. He chewed out everyone and a bunch of church stuff in an awkward seminary testimony day. Be it known he was messing with occult stuff and getting his girlfriend pregnant at this time.

Currently one of the most upstanding church members I know and sealed to aforementioned girlfriend with a few more kids to boot.

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Critics of the church will use anything to bash us with, same thing as social justice warriors. This was a publicity stunt, pure and simple. 

We can wish the family all the support we want, but I see a few rounds of excommunication coming up in the future. 

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Haven't watched the video (and probably won't), but I can say that filming/recording during sacrament meeting bothers me, regardless of the content. The only comment I can think of to make is that church members (and the world in general) would do well to take heed the counsel to bridle our passions. 

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I was about 3 years old or so when I took off my clothes in the middle of Eucharist - everybody was kneeling on the pews with their heads bowed and I climbed up the bench twirling my dress over my head for all to see.  All my mom did was give me "the look" and told me "we don't do that in our family".

That's my mom.  That's how I grew up.  I'm middle-aged now and my mom can still give me "the look" and tell me "we don't do that in our family." and wouldn't you know, it immediately gives me this bad feeling even when we have abandoned some family traditions because my husband has better ones we adopted instead.

Of course, I learned that "the look" can come with my dad's butt whooping if I don't heed it...

So, making F&T my political platform... ain't gonna happen.  My mom's retina will blind me forever.  Anyway, I was trying to answer @The Folk Prophet's question.  The way my family is - we don't do those things because it goes against our family identity and we don't want to get voted off the island.  So, we seek the safety of family identity and traditions.  This is the answer to a lot of these problems - STRONG FAMILY UNITS generation after generation.

Edited by anatess2
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2 hours ago, anatess2 said:

I was about 3 years old or so when I took off my clothes in the middle of Eucharist - everybody was kneeling on the pews with their heads bowed and I climbed up the bench twirling my dress over my head for all to see.  All my mom did was give me "the look" and told me "we don't do that in our family".

That is hilarious!!

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I, for one, will keep striving for the day when anyone, of any age or gender or orientation can lift their dress above their heads in church without being judged.   In fact, I just made a hidden-cam video of me doing this a few Sundays ago - expect to see it on YouTube and in the media shortly.

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I bore testimony this last Sunday that the lack of kim chee in Mormon diets is expressly a violation of the Word of Wisdom.  I even had my wife film me as the congregation mocked and derided me for saying so.  Such heathens.  Such uncharitable human beings.  That just goes to show how much cabbage-hating there is in the Church.  Why do I even bother to stay here?  Because I strive for cabbage fulfillment in the last days.

Wherefore, I shall cry out with the voice of an angel to cry repentance to all nations, and to bring all to a knowledge of the true and living condiment.

Edited by Guest
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2 hours ago, cdowis said:

Your cousin is NewnameNoah?  The individual who posts temple endowment  videos  on youtube,

No she posted it on her Facebook or shared it, from the main Facebook page it was on.

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