12 yr old testimony drama


NeuroTypical
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3 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

I heard that Seattle's capital region is still smelling like urine and excrement because a lawmaker thought it was racially insensitive to hose down the sidewalks.  It must be that stench.

Pot + pee + poop = poteepoo. It's the lovely scent of poteepoo.

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3 hours ago, Vort said:

It's not often that I agree with Rob over Gator. Must be something in the Seattle air today. Cascade Mountains high or something.

Even a stopped clock is right twice a day. Two opposite extremes of looking beyond the mark. Some of these arguments end up perhaps being a taste of what it might be like if we had a Snuffer vs. Dehlin bid for next president of the church.

Edited by The Folk Prophet
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4 hours ago, Vort said:

It's not often that I agree with Rob over Gator. Must be something in the Seattle air today. Cascade Mountains high or something.

Something is making you high, and it isn't the Cascade Mountains kid. 

@mirkwood, arrest this guy immediately. 

Edited by MormonGator
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14 hours ago, Jane_Doe said:

If you have left the Church and put it behind you, why did you choose to join an LDS forum?

I wanted to prove myself. I wanted to prove that the influence of the Church in my thinking is no longer so strong. I was wrong.
But to err is human!

I am bisexual, so find both men and women attractive. I thought in my naivete, I could go into a lesbian bar, and get to know lesbian women. When I stood outside the door of the lesbian bar, I got conscience. Not because the HG told me something, but because I thought about my family in the LDS church. I went back.
I am still critical of the church. Do you know how it all began?
I researched about Helmuth Hübener, and found out that the church had lied about Nazitime. My first thought was that the Church can not lie, so my sources had to be wrong. I checked everything a second, a third, and a fourth time. Then I had to recognize that the church in the case of Hübener lied.
If she lied in the case of Hübener, then perhaps in other cases? I began to deal with the history of the Church and came upon many inconsistencies and lies of the Church, but also of their opponents.
I was confused, fasted, and prayed, and asked God for enlightenment. She did not come. No "burning in the bosom", no sudden thought, only a great emptiness.

I wondered if I had asked the wrong questions? I tried again. And lo and behold, everything suddenly became clear before my eyes. And I knew that, as one says in Germany, "the fish stinks from the head". And I must leave the church. I wrote a letter to my bishop, explaining my reasons.
So if I can stay here, I will critically comment on the things that I have found in my research. And otherwise I will answer as I think it is right.

In the case of Savannah means that I support her. I've seen on TLC an interesting story about JAZZ, a transsexual girl. Her parents support her unconditionally. I wondered what would happen if Jazz and her family were members of the church? I'm sure Jazz would not be a member any more, and everyone in the family who supports her, too. And why? Because the Church has something against the subject of transsexuality because the theme would lead the entire system of belief in pre-existence and the established gender roles ad absurdum. There are transgenders already in ancient times! Another example of the fact that the Church is mistaken and science triumphs.

15 hours ago, Jane_Doe said:

Fast and Testimony meeting exists to testify of the Truthfulness of the Gospel.  Not whatever feelings and experiences.

If that is, then German members have made it all the decades wrong. An example:
About three years ago, I was not as critical as I am today, I was in a testimony meeting when an old woman got up to give her testimony. She said that she had had flatulence for days, and had to fart a lot, which was unpleasant for her and others. She had prayed to God, and suddenly the flatulence and farts ceased. She concluded that God answered prayers.
I thought it was funny at the time to imagine that God would take care of the flatulence and farts of old women.

14 hours ago, NeuroTypical said:

Can you understand the difference now, Mormonheart?  If you're not talking about the reality and divinity of God, if you're not talking about gospel principles, then you are not sharing a testimony.  If you want to talk about things other than these things in a testimony meeting, you do not want to bear your testimony, and you should not go to the microphone. 

Then, at least in Germany, only a few would turn to the microphone. Mostly, I always hear phrases about the gratitude to be in the church, or that God helps one to get through the tithing despite the tithing. Or, the HG warned one before reading church-critical books.
Such a nonsense.

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24 minutes ago, Mormonheart said:

I wanted to prove myself. I wanted to prove that the influence of the Church in my thinking is no longer so strong. I was wrong.
But to err is human!

I am bisexual, so find both men and women attractive. I thought in my naivete, I could go into a lesbian bar, and get to know lesbian women. When I stood outside the door of the lesbian bar, I got conscience. Not because the HG told me something, but because I thought about my family in the LDS church. I went back.
I am still critical of the church. Do you know how it all began?
I researched about Helmuth Hübener, and found out that the church had lied about Nazitime. My first thought was that the Church can not lie, so my sources had to be wrong. I checked everything a second, a third, and a fourth time. Then I had to recognize that the church in the case of Hübener lied.
If she lied in the case of Hübener, then perhaps in other cases? I began to deal with the history of the Church and came upon many inconsistencies and lies of the Church, but also of their opponents.
I was confused, fasted, and prayed, and asked God for enlightenment. She did not come. No "burning in the bosom", no sudden thought, only a great emptiness.

I wondered if I had asked the wrong questions? I tried again. And lo and behold, everything suddenly became clear before my eyes. And I knew that, as one says in Germany, "the fish stinks from the head". And I must leave the church. I wrote a letter to my bishop, explaining my reasons.
So if I can stay here, I will critically comment on the things that I have found in my research. And otherwise I will answer as I think it is right.

In the case of Savannah means that I support her. I've seen on TLC an interesting story about JAZZ, a transsexual girl. Her parents support her unconditionally. I wondered what would happen if Jazz and her family were members of the church? I'm sure Jazz would not be a member any more, and everyone in the family who supports her, too. And why? Because the Church has something against the subject of transsexuality because the theme would lead the entire system of belief in pre-existence and the established gender roles ad absurdum. There are transgenders already in ancient times! Another example of the fact that the Church is mistaken and science triumphs.

If that is, then German members have made it all the decades wrong. An example:
About three years ago, I was not as critical as I am today, I was in a testimony meeting when an old woman got up to give her testimony. She said that she had had flatulence for days, and had to fart a lot, which was unpleasant for her and others. She had prayed to God, and suddenly the flatulence and farts ceased. She concluded that God answered prayers.
I thought it was funny at the time to imagine that God would take care of the flatulence and farts of old women.

Then, at least in Germany, only a few would turn to the microphone. Mostly, I always hear phrases about the gratitude to be in the church, or that God helps one to get through the tithing despite the tithing. Or, the HG warned one before reading church-critical books.
Such a nonsense.

I am curious as to your motives on these forums. What do you possibly hope to achieve?

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44 minutes ago, Rob Osborn said:

I am curious as to your motives on these forums. What do you possibly hope to achieve?

I tried to explain that? Do not you listen, or is my indulgence so bad? At point 2, please complain to Google Translate.

Maybe another reason is that I already miss the church. I criticize the church, but I miss it. Sounds strange, right?

I have had many wonderful experiences in the church, and I have met many wonderful people, which I shall never forget!
But is it worth the price to remain in a church that deceives its members, manipulates them (Proposition 8 in California), and excludes all those who make this public because of "apostasy"? Definitely not!

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1 hour ago, Mormonheart said:

I wanted to prove myself. I wanted to prove that the influence of the Church in my thinking is no longer so strong. I was wrong.
But to err is human!

I am bisexual, so find both men and women attractive. I thought in my naivete, I could go into a lesbian bar, and get to know lesbian women. When I stood outside the door of the lesbian bar, I got conscience. Not because the HG told me something, but because I thought about my family in the LDS church. I went back.

This is not a place for you to make exit drama or to make yourself feel better about leaving.

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29 minutes ago, Mormonheart said:

I tried to explain that? Do not you listen, or is my indulgence so bad? At point 2, please complain to Google Translate.

Maybe another reason is that I already miss the church. I criticize the church, but I miss it. Sounds strange, right?

I have had many wonderful experiences in the church, and I have met many wonderful people, which I shall never forget!
But is it worth the price to remain in a church that deceives its members, manipulates them (Proposition 8 in California), and excludes all those who make this public because of "apostasy"? Definitely not!

Note: when you signed up for this site, you agreed to "1. Do not post, upload, or otherwise submit anything to the site that is derogatory towards The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, its teachings, or its leaders. Anti-LDS Propaganda will not be tolerated anywhere".  

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4 hours ago, Jane_Doe said:

This is not a place for you to make exit drama or to make yourself feel better about leaving.

Jane Doe, I just tried to explain how it all began. And what I think about some things. If it hurts your feelings (or someone else's), I'm sorry. But since I wrote to the bishop, I feel a freedom in me that I did not know before.

3 hours ago, Jane_Doe said:

Note: when you signed up for this site, you agreed to "1. Do not post, upload, or otherwise submit anything to the site that is derogatory towards The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, its teachings, or its leaders. Anti-LDS Propaganda will not be tolerated anywhere".  

As everywhere in life, and as a German proverb says, "the tone makes music", or, in other words, with another German proverb: "How to call into the forest, so it echoes."
This means, in the plain text, that if everyone is able to adapt to a friendly and subtle level, and criticism can be voiced and discussed, I am there.
An example:
Let us suppose that in the media there was a report on child abuse in the church, hidden by local church leaders (bishop or stake president) before the judiciary, and which had now been made public. And I would address the topic "child abuse" in the forum. If I would to accuse the local Church leaders, and you want to defend or relativize them, I would not have a problem with them, provided that everything remained at a factual and not insulting level.
By the way, the subject of child abuse was chosen as an example because I myself was affected (father and uncle), and then (in the seventies), the bishop blamed me.

.

Edited by Mormonheart
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2 hours ago, Mormonheart said:

Jane Doe, I just tried to explain how it all began. And what I think about some things. If it hurts your feelings (or someone else's), I'm sorry. But since I wrote to the bishop, I feel a freedom in me that I did not know before.

As everywhere in life, and as a German proverb says, "the tone makes music", or, in other words, with another German proverb: "How to call into the forest, so it echoes."
This means, in the plain text, that if everyone is able to adapt to a friendly and subtle level, and criticism can be voiced and discussed, I am there.
An example:
Let us suppose that in the media there was a report on child abuse in the church, hidden by local church leaders (bishop or stake president) before the judiciary, and which had now been made public. And I would address the topic "child abuse" in the forum. If I would to accuse the local Church leaders, and you want to defend or relativize them, I would not have a problem with them, provided that everything remained at a factual and not insulting level.
By the way, the subject of child abuse was chosen as an example because I myself was affected (father and uncle), and then (in the seventies), the bishop blamed me.

.

I am simply giving you a friendly reminder of what the rules are here, for everyone of every walk of life.   You may choose to abide or not, but you dont get to pick the consequences of those choices.

Edited by Jane_Doe
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6 hours ago, Mormonheart said:

I tried to explain that? Do not you listen, or is my indulgence so bad? At point 2, please complain to Google Translate.

Maybe another reason is that I already miss the church. I criticize the church, but I miss it. Sounds strange, right?

I have had many wonderful experiences in the church, and I have met many wonderful people, which I shall never forget!
But is it worth the price to remain in a church that deceives its members, manipulates them (Proposition 8 in California), and excludes all those who make this public because of "apostasy"? Definitely not!

Well then, why dont you go do something else then? It appears to me you have already checked out anyway.

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Her response is classic really...

In the Garden of Eden Story we are told that God gave a command not to eat of the Fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil.  How did Eve justify in her own mind her sin?  She listened to the Serpent when he told her that God was wrong, that he made a mistake, that God had lied to them.  But it turns out that God did not lie, he was not wrong, and Eve did suffer for her sins.

Now a days people justify it the same way.  "Oh prophets are mortal men they can make mistakes."  To justify themselves that they are ok in what ever sin they wish to indulge in.  They say they believe in the Bible but the parts where it condemns fornication and adultery.. well that must be a mistake.  They say they believe in the Book of Mormon but the part were Alma tells his son that sexual sin are an abomination (and all the other places it talks about sexual sins) must clearly be a mistake.  They say that they believe Joseph Smith that is a prophet but whatever he declared the Lord said regarding the Law of Chasity well that is just him getting it wrong.

When you see what they are really doing you can tell that they proclamations of Faith and belief ring hollow and empty.  Their real God is the idol of their own selfish desires and everything else is smoke and mirrors in which they deceive themselves in thinking that they are right with God.

Edited by estradling75
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9 hours ago, Mormonheart said:

I am still critical of the church. Do you know how it all began?
I researched about Helmuth Hübener, and found out that the church had lied about Nazitime.

Mormonheart, you promised when you obtained an account here, to not criticize the church.  You have now violated your promise, and shown that you are of the character of a liar.  You come here promising to help build the kingdom, yet you attempt to destroy it.  Does my judgment seem harsh or unrighteous to you?  Well, perhaps you now understand a little about how the branch president who excommunicated Hübener felt.  Except in his case, lives were on the line, and the Gestapo could at any time, come and execute everyone if the church made one wrong move.  The only authority here are the moderators, and the only risk to your person is having your account closed.  Not quite the same as facing a Nazi execution chamber.  

There may be no human life at stake here, Mormonheart, but your soul is at stake, and that is of great value.  Think about that.

We should all be aware of the story of the Latter-day Saints who lived in Nazi Germany, and specifically the Helmuth Hübener story.  We should think for a moment what we would do in similar situations. 

http://ldsmag.com/article-1-11597/

Quote

We certainly cannot judge those who remained silent in Germany or opposed the efforts of these three brave LDS young men.  The pressures to support the German government before and during the war were enormous, the propaganda spread by the Nazis was compelling, and the risks of showing any signs of rebellion were swift and terrifying.  Only God can judge the local branch president who mistakenly excommunicated young Helmuth after his arrest.  Fortunately the Church leaders in Salt Lake posthumously reinstated Helmuth in 1946, shortly after the war ended, for the mistaken excommunication that did not follow proper procedure.

 

Edited by NeuroTypical
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9 hours ago, Mormonheart said:

1) I thought in my naivete, I could go into a lesbian bar, and get to know lesbian women.

2) I am still critical of the church. Do you know how it all began?  I researched about Helmuth Hübener, and found out that the church had lied about Nazitime.

3) I was confused, fasted, and prayed, and asked God for enlightenment. She did not come. No "burning in the bosom", no sudden thought, only a great emptiness.

4) But since I wrote to the bishop, I feel a freedom in me that I did not know before.

Hmm.  Now, where have I seen this pattern before?

Edited by Guest
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2 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

Hmm.  Now, where have I seen this pattern before?

Well, I've heard rumors that you go into lesbian bars too, but you swore me to silence. 

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37 minutes ago, pam said:

MormonHeart will not be responding in the future.  Let's move on.  I am starting to think we're pretty much done on this subject anyway.

So....

What did everyone think of the new Spider-man movie? I haven't seen it yet.

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Just now, The Folk Prophet said:

So....

What did everyone think of the new Spider-man movie? I haven't seen it yet.

I won't be seeing it but my son and my sister saw it and loved it.

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14 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

So....

What did everyone think of the new Spider-man movie? I haven't seen it yet.

It got greater than 90% from both critics and moviegoers alike on Rotten Tomatoes.  So, it must be pretty good.

I've decided I'm not giving any more money to Hollywood.  So, I'm going to wait until it's free.

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28 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

So....

What did everyone think of the new Spider-man movie? I haven't seen it yet.

Spider-man looked 12 years old, and was way too dramatic.  :P:D   (Actually, I haven't seen it yet either)

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1 minute ago, person0 said:

Spider-man looked 12 years old, and was way too dramatic.  :P:D   (Actually, I haven't seen it yet either)

We're just getting older.  I swear they are letting 8 year olds drive cars these days. :P

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1 hour ago, person0 said:

Spider-man looked 12 years old, and was way too dramatic.  :P:D   (Actually, I haven't seen it yet either)

Michael Keaton is good as the Vulture. He's dark and creepy. I also liked the friends Peter Parker hung out with. Other than that, I didn't really like it. 

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