felicityswims

Garment Concerns/Questions

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14 minutes ago, felicityswims said:

If you truly believe we botch the personal revelation process, then that means you believe that the prophets can be wrong, because they receive personal revelation. Which in turn means that what they have said regarding this topic can also be wrong. Ever think about that? Use your brain.

Nice dodge.  Now, please answer the question:  how do you deal with a person who thinks (s)he has a revelation allowing them to do something you believe to be in error?

I have no problem with the idea that prophets are individually fallible.  But we aren't dealing with individual prophetic teachings, are we?  We are dealing with dozens of prophets, hundreds of temple presidents/matrons, thousands of stake presidents, and tens of thousands of bishops.  

And then--there's you, who by your own admission hate the garment.  If you have no obligation to choose not to hate the garment; whence this purported obligation of others to choose to stop (as you perceive it) hating you?

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18 minutes ago, felicityswims said:

I started out wearing them 24/7 because that's what everyone else did, and I thought if I can do it without hating how I feel and feeling uncomfortable (to the point of depression,) I would wear them. When I realized I just couldn't wear them all the time because if was affecting my mental health, I prayed about wearing them less often. 

I dare say you were too focused on your uncomfortableness.  Thoughts are powerful and what you feed grows so how about you try again and focus on the blessings this time?!

Edited by my two cents

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19 minutes ago, felicityswims said:

When I realized I just couldn't wear them all the time because if was affecting my mental health,

How does wearing garments affect one's mental health? Do you mean to say you have mental health issues and so you react poorly to things you find uncomfortable or restricting?

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3 minutes ago, my two cents said:

I dare say you were too focused on your uncomfortableness.  Thoughts are powerful and what you feed grows so how about you try again and focus on the blessings this time?!

I wore them 24/7 for a little over a year, and the whole time I struggled with self-esteem issues, heat stroke, (living in a place that gets to 105 degrees every day during the summer, and 80+ the rest of the year,) horrible lines being dug into my skin no matter what size or material I wore, so I started praying for guidance, and after only a couple of months of wearing them "part-time," I have felt closer to God, felt much fewer self-esteem issues, had no heat stroke, and no longer have lines all over my legs and arms.

 

3 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

How does wearing garments affect one's mental health? Do you mean to say you have mental health issues and so you react poorly to things you find uncomfortable or restricting?

It affects one's mental health when you already struggle with Major Depressive Disorder and get heat stroke every time you leave the house. I'm sure Heavenly Father would rather I wear my garments part time than die of heat stroke. Doctors even advised me to go part time, and I know Heavenly Father puts our health first.

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4 minutes ago, felicityswims said:

I wore them 24/7 for a little over a year, and the whole time I struggled with self-esteem issues, heat stroke, (living in a place that gets to 105 degrees every day during the summer, and 80+ the rest of the year,) horrible lines being dug into my skin no matter what size or material I wore, so I started praying for guidance, and after only a couple of months of wearing them "part-time," I have felt closer to God, felt much fewer self-esteem issues, had no heat stroke, and no longer have lines all over my legs and arms.

 

It affects one's mental health when you already struggle with Major Depressive Disorder and get heat stroke every time you leave the house. I'm sure Heavenly Father would rather I wear my garments part time than die of heat stroke. Doctors even advised me to go part time, and I know Heavenly Father puts our health first.

Maybe you should have lead with this information.

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Guest MormonGator
16 minutes ago, felicityswims said:

 heat stroke, (living in a place that gets to 105 degrees every day during the summer, and 80+ the rest of the year,)

I live in Florida so I understand you 100% on this. 

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8 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

I live in Florida so I understand you 100% on this. 

I served my mission in Florida.  I wore the 50/50 cotton poly garments always.  I had a couple of drilux but they were way more uncomfortable for some reason.  Now I still wear the same type of garments.

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24 minutes ago, felicityswims said:

I know Heavenly Father puts our health first.

Interesting. How do you "know" this? Perhaps the same way you "know" God told you not to wear the garment as instructed? You may wish to revisit what you think you "know".

Here is a short list of a few of the many people whom God apparently didn't want putting their health first:

  • Jesus Christ
  • Abel
  • Noah
  • Stephen
  • Peter
  • Paul
  • Nephi (take your pick as to which)
  • Isaiah
  • Joseph Smith

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Your underwear, your body, your choice. 

I'm neither condoming nor condemning. Personally I find the people who are adamant about wearing them as much as possible to be as boorish as those who are cavalier about wearing them. 

Wear your underwear as you see fit and come what may. I guess that makes me an underwearatarian

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8 minutes ago, MarginOfError said:

Personally I find the people who are adamant about wearing them as much as possible to be as boorish as those who are cavalier about wearing them. 

I'm sympathetic to both sides. I admire the people who wear them 24/7 and I admire people with the backbone to say they struggle with wearing them. 

Edited by MormonGator

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5 minutes ago, MarginOfError said:

I'm neither condoming nor condemning. Personally I find the people who are adamant about wearing them as much as possible to be as boorish as those who are cavalier about wearing them.

I find neither to be boorish. Rather, I find it boorish to go about proclaiming one's defiance of covenant as a virtue and expecting everyone to agree (and taking offense when they don't), or on the other hand, proactively lecturing others on how they aren't keeping the commandments as they should. But when someone asks, that's much different.

Of course, I also find it insufferably boorish to stake what one imagines to be "middle ground" and then toss around disparaging terms like "boorish" at anyone who doesn't appear to take the same position.

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8 minutes ago, MarginOfError said:

Your underwear, your body, your choice. 

God's symbolism, Christ's body (he paid for it, remember), your covenant.

The fact that she deals with mental health issues is a factor she should discuss with her priesthood leaders and competent medical professionals as it relates to wearing the garment.  In relation to the discussion at hand, the fact that she purchased the garments and has agency over her body is false conjecture.

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3 hours ago, felicityswims said:

I'm an endowed member, but I don't wear my garments all day and all night. Technically, I'm not breaking any rules, because the endowment ceremony literally only says "wear them throughout your life." I wear shoes throughout my life, too, but not all the time! I wear glasses throughout my life, but not all the time! So why do the garments need to be worn 24/7? They're supposed to be sacred, a reminder of the covenants we made, but we wear them like normal underwear, so how are they special anymore? They're not. I wear mine on Sundays and days when I need the extra strength. That's what makes them special to me, I follow the rules to "wear them throughout my life," but people think I'm wrong and that I need to wear them 24/7. Even the temple recommend questions ask: "Do you keep the covenants that you made in the temple? Do you wear the garment both night and day as instructed in the endowment and in accordance with the covenant you made in the temple?" The endowment instructions don't tell me to wear them day and night! What do you think?

*shrug* My understanding is that this would be a question to take to your Bishop. The random strangers here have no authority over you.

 

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23 minutes ago, Blueskye2 said:

*shrug* My understanding is that this would be a question to take to your Bishop. The random strangers here have no authority over you.

Ah, but as humans it is validation; not authority, that we crave. ;)

2 hours ago, felicityswims said:

It affects one's mental health when you already struggle with Major Depressive Disorder and get heat stroke every time you leave the house. I'm sure Heavenly Father would rather I wear my garments part time than die of heat stroke. Doctors even advised me to go part time, and I know Heavenly Father puts our health first.

While there may be some legitimate health issues in play here (I think @MarginOfError, has in the past talked about his issues with garments when doing outdoors Scouting activities in extreme weather conditions), hyperbole and disingenuous generalizations are not helpful.  I think you'd be hard-pressed to find an example of someone dying from (or even being hospitalized with) heatstroke due to wearing garments during their day-to-day activities.  (I served a mission in the Amazon basin and do know something of what I'm talking about here.). Unless you do hard physical labor outside, the vast majority of human beings aren't going to get heatstroke for spending a few minutes in 105 degree weather while going from an air-conditioned car to an air-conditioned building; and fabric seams tend not to dig into skin unless the fabric is worn very tightly indeed.

As for the body issues you cite--issues of any sort are meant to be resolved; and breezily saying "well, I HATE garments and always will, so that's that" and then misleading yourself and others about what the Church's position is, isn't really progress.

Quote

 By the way, I wasn't asking permission to wear them less often, I was asking your opinions on how I do it since everyone I know in my ward looks down on me for it.

By any reasonable reading of your original post, this just isn't true.  You were floating a pseudo-doctrinal justification for your choice, hoping we'd validate it.  Instead, many of us expressed theological concerns with your reasoning; and you are now playing the martyr.

As has been said, ultimately it's your underwear, your covenant, and your choice.  But then, you came to us, asking for our reaction to your little exercise in trying to out-lawyer the prophets.  And if you're going to come onto this forum and pat yourself on the back for being able to flout the Church's teachings while remaining on such a high spiritual plane--your point would be made more effectively, if your posts weren't treating some of us quite so snottily.

Edited by Just_A_Guy

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10 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

and fabric seams tend not to dig into skin unless the fabric is worn very tightly indeed.

This isn't necessarily true. My wife has dealt with the lower leg seam digging into her legs in spite of garments that fit as they should otherwise our entire marriage. It's a design flaw imo on female garments.

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I think it comes down to your temple recommend interview.  I assume you would answer "no" to the question as to whether you wear garments day and night.  At that point, I assume again, that the bishop/Stake President would delve deeper into your concerns, and based on his personal revelation, allow you the blessings of the temple or not.  This is where personal revelation and authority comes into play.  You alone don't decide your worthiness for temple worship.  And it follows the law of witnesses (2 Cor 13:1).  And, who knows, maybe your ecclesiastical leader will confirm your revelation with his own.  But if not, his is the authoritative voice, just as for church wide issues, the prophet is the voice of authority.

Edited by bytebear

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I really have a tough time praying.  I don't see why I have to grovel.  I just can't believe in a God that would force his children to grovel and beg for scraps like dogs.  My knees were getting so sore.  I thought I was going through pants at an alarming rate with all the kneeling I had to do.  And actual callouses were forming.  I just don't see how anyone else does it.

After speaking with the bishop and stake president about it, they confirmed to me that I never made a covenant to pray every day.  And we're only commanded to pray oft. There's no prescription as to just how often.  So, after I've prayed and pondered, I know in my heart that as I pray only once a month I can feel close enough to the Lord that I will be ok.

-_-

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10 hours ago, Carborendum said:

I really have a tough time praying.  I don't see why I have to grovel.  I just can't believe in a God that would force his children to grovel and beg for scraps like dogs.  My knees were getting so sore.  I thought I was going through pants at an alarming rate with all the kneeling I had to do.  And actual callouses were forming.  I just don't see how anyone else does it.

After speaking with the bishop and stake president about it, they confirmed to me that I never made a covenant to pray every day.  And we're only commanded to pray oft. There's no prescription as to just how often.  So, after I've prayed and pondered, I know in my heart that as I pray only once a month I can feel close enough to the Lord that I will be ok.

-_-

Before I engage with this--are you going to tell me, six posts from now, that you have a medical condition that makes kneeling extraordinarily difficult?  Because if so, my response will be very different than if you're just telling me that you "hate" praying.

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20 hours ago, felicityswims said:

 

It affects one's mental health when you already struggle with Major Depressive Disorder and get heat stroke every time you leave the house. I'm sure Heavenly Father would rather I wear my garments part time than die of heat stroke. Doctors even advised me to go part time, and I know Heavenly Father puts our health first.

OP killed the thread with the additional information.  Seems to be a lot of disingenuous question asking going on lately.  When they don't get the validation they seek, all of the sudden the conditions change, and the sympathy is expected to pour in.   

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I worked one summer mowing he golf courses of the Palm Springs valley.  It was 90+ at 4:30 a.m.as I went to work.  It cracked 110 before 9:00 a.m. and often was 115-120 by 10:00 a.m. (127 was the hottest day).  Me and my garments never suffered heat stroke.  Discomfort yes, but I could have been wearing tightie whiteies and had the same discomfort. 

The garment is a part of our covenants, as is wearing them "24/7".  Making excuses not to wear them is breaking that covenant.  There can be legitimate reasons for not wearing them at times, but I'm hearing excuses and justifications in this thread.

Edited by mirkwood

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