How do we ask questions at church?


Jwrenf02
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2 hours ago, changed said:

I had this conversation just the other day with someone - they were teaching a lesson and wanted advice on how to get good participation and a good discussion going.  I told them if they wanted a good discussion, they needed to ask a genuine question.  

genuine question - one that you honestly do not know the answer to, asked in order to gain increased understanding, generates discussion.

rhetorical question - something meant to make a point, response is not about generating discussion and learning something new, response is just so everyone can confirm that they agree with some point being made.  

All the questions in the manual are rhetorical in nature.  

 

6 minutes ago, changed said:

Show me an example of a question out of a manual that does not have a standard answer, or standard type of answer.  

I do see the problem with genuine questions though - if no one really knows the answer, it just turns into speculation and opinions...

 

I think the main point of church for most people is not really learning something new, but just remembering and being motivated to do what we are supposed to be doing.

For what it's worth, even if we accepted that speculation and opinions had value in church, even if we accepted that at the very least that value was greater participation, you're missing the lowest common denominator factoid. If an intellectual giant asked a so-called "genuine" question he/she leaves the lesser intellects in the dust. If a simpleton asks a genuine question he/she bores those more intellectually advanced. The concept as a means of engagement with a group fails on that count even if you put aside the potential danger of speculation and opinion and false doctrine potentially driving away the Spirit.

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Guest MormonGator
17 minutes ago, changed said:

  I think the main point of church for most people is not really learning something new, but just remembering and being motivated to do what we are supposed to be doing.

I agree. 

My concern is if people don't get answers from church leaders and teachers- they'll seek out other ways to get the information and it could lead them down the wrong path or get them false information somehow. 

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Just now, changed said:

Every now and then, I think it's good to ask the unanswerable question though - to remind ourselves that there are still many great and important things that are yet to be revealed.  We do not know it all, there are not official answers for everything, and that is ok - it's a good thing, gives everyone something to ponder, something to have faith and hope in rather than knowledge about, keeps everyone humble.  

I don't disagree. But in church?

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3 hours ago, changed said:

I had this conversation just the other day with someone - they were teaching a lesson and wanted advice on how to get good participation and a good discussion going.  I told them if they wanted a good discussion, they needed to ask a genuine question.  

genuine question - one that you honestly do not know the answer to, asked in order to gain increased understanding, generates discussion.

rhetorical question - something meant to make a point, response is not about generating discussion and learning something new, response is just so everyone can confirm that they agree with some point being made.  

All the questions in the manual are rhetorical in nature.  

A couple of comments:

  • A "genuine" question is a question that requests an answer. It need not be a question to which we don't know the answer. "Adam, where art thou?" was a genuine question, even though God already knew the answer.
  • A "rhetorical" question is one used for purposes of rhetoric -- that is, to convince or persuade (or perhaps gloat) rather than to gather information. "How many times have I told you not to say that?" "Is the Pope Catholic?" "Who's crying now?" Few or none of the questions in an LDS lesson manual will be rhetorical.

Bonus comment:

When I was the gospel doctrine teacher many years ago, I would occasionally ask very sincere questions to my class to which I did not have the answer. My questions were designed to get people thinking, to investigate areas of uncertainty (for me, at least), and perhaps to implicitly show that I didn't hold myself all high and mighty and that I was a searcher for truth just like everyone else. A wise Sunday School president pulled me aside after class one day and bluntly said something to the effect of, "Brother Vort, you are the teacher for this class. Your job is to help lead people to truth. You should not be raising questions that you can't answer." I was taken off-guard and somewhat offended, but over weeks and months and even years, I thought about what he said, and ultimately determined that he was right. What a great lesson for me to have learned. Thank heavens I was ultimately humble enough to receive it.

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31 minutes ago, pam said:

That is not my understanding at all.  I would like references please.  

Heres one from a church manual

D&C 110:11. Where Are the Ten Lost Tribes?

President Joseph Fielding Smith wrote: “Whether these tribes are in the north or not, I am not prepared to say. As I said before, they are ‘lost’ and until the Lord wishes it, they will not be found. All that I know about it is what the Lord has revealed, and He declares that they will come from the North. He has also made it very clear and definite that these lost people are separate and apart from the scattered Israelites now being gathered out.” (Signs of the Times, p. 186; see also Notes and Commentary on Doctrine and Covenants 133:26–34.)

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3 hours ago, changed said:

I had this conversation just the other day with someone - they were teaching a lesson and wanted advice on how to get good participation and a good discussion going.  I told them if they wanted a good discussion, they needed to ask a genuine question.  

genuine question - one that you honestly do not know the answer to, asked in order to gain increased understanding, generates discussion.

rhetorical question - something meant to make a point, response is not about generating discussion and learning something new, response is just so everyone can confirm that they agree with some point being made.  

All the questions in the manual are rhetorical in nature.  

A couple of comments:

  • A "genuine" question is a question that requests an answer. It need not be a question to which we don't know the answer. "Adam, where art thou?" was a genuine question, even though God already knew the answer.
  • A "rhetorical" question is one used for purposes of rhetoric -- that is, to convince or persuade (or perhaps gloat) rather than to gather information. "How many times have I told you not to say that?" "Is the Pope Catholic?" "Who's crying now?" Few or none of the questions in an LDS lesson manual will be rhetorical.

Bonus comment:

When I was the gospel doctrine teacher many years ago, I would occasionally ask very sincere questions to my class to which I did not have the answer. My questions were designed to get people thinking, to investigate areas of uncertainty (for me, at least), and perhaps to implicitly show that I didn't hold myself all high and mighty and that I was a searcher for truth just like everyone else. A wise Sunday School president pulled me aside after class one day and bluntly said something to the effect of, "Brother Vort, you are the teacher for this class. Your job is to help lead people to truth. You should not be raising questions that you can't answer." I was taken off-guard and somewhat offended, but over weeks and months and even years, I thought about what he said, and ultimately determined that he was right. What a great lesson for me to have learned. Thank heavens I was ultimately humble enough to receive it.

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8 minutes ago, changed said:

Every now and then, I think it's good to ask the unanswerable question though - to remind ourselves that there are still many great and important things that are yet to be revealed.  We do not know it all, there are not official answers for everything, and that is ok - it's a good thing, gives everyone something to ponder, something to have faith and hope in rather than knowledge about, keeps everyone humble.  

Yes, if it is really an important question to ponder.  I really see no value at all in pondering things that will in no way contribute to our growth.  And if you're the only one who sees value in a given topic to ponder, then go ahead and ponder it.  But the nature of a classroom setting is that we're talking to a group with that which has been publicly revealed. 

If you have some personal revelation for you, wonderful.  But what value is that in a classroom setting where the focus is to discuss the revealed truths from the Prophet?

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49 minutes ago, Rob Osborn said:

The lost portion of the ten tribes are a separate group of people than those scattered around the earth. Speculation runs wild and deep as to where they are currently located. Latter day revelation tells us they have their own prophets and that their return will be a miraculous event.

41 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

From where do you get this information?

35 minutes ago, pam said:

That is not my understanding at all.  I would like references please.  

You have to know that Rob and I don't agree on much.  But I believe he is correct.  I'll look for the reference.

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2 minutes ago, changed said:

Yes - especially in church, if you do not want the church to appear as some mind-controlling entity whose job is to dictate everything and take away free agency... Church should encourage everyone to think, not tell everyone what to think.

Well...that's one way to look at it.

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Just now, changed said:

Many religious organizations seek to take away free agency... 

It was not atheists who killed Jesus, it was organized religious people who killed Him....

Killing someone doesn't remove his agency.

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1 minute ago, changed said:

There are different varieties of organized groups - it's important to avoid anything akin to pharisees / Sadducee type of religious organization.

True enough. Your implication that the Church tends to be one of those types of groups is false, however.

1 minute ago, changed said:

unanswered questions are just fine - it's one of our articles faith, many things are not yet revealed.  Admitting we do not have all the answers is a good thing.

Granting that we don't know everything is important, if obvious. Using Church class time to discuss the things we don't know is, at best, useless and a waste of sacred time.

Edited by Vort
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1 minute ago, changed said:

There are different varieties of organized groups - it's important to avoid anything akin to pharisees / Sadducee type of religious organization.  

unanswered questions are just fine - it's one of our articles faith, many things are not yet revealed.  Admitting we do not have all the answers is a good thing. 

Your attitude on this matter seems to reflect a belief that truth is relative to the individual. Clearly God has the right to dictate what is and isn't truth to His people. Do you believe that His doing so takes away our agency and is a matter of mind control?

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Guest MormonGator
26 minutes ago, changed said:

uncertainty exists in everything.  In our current state, we cannot "know" anything for certain,

I'm curious-you are saying we can't "know" anything for certain. Are you certain about that? It's sort of a self-defeating statement.

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6 minutes ago, changed said:

There are some answers we can get from the church, and others that we cannot.  The church will not tell us who to marry, will not tell us the validity or falsehood of evolution, will not tell us who to vote for etc.  In many things, we are supposed to think for ourselves, learn how to stand on our own two feet - be self-reliant and come to our own decisions on things.  

Those who want the church to tell them what to believe on every single aspect of their life are not taking personal responsibility for themselves, are being lazy, not wanting to think it through on their own... it's almost as if they do not want to be accountable for anything.  If something goes wrong (with their marriage, with their government, with anything) if it was not their choice, they do not have themselves to blame - they can blame everyone else.  "It's not my fault, I'm just doing what I was told" sort of thing.

It takes maturity to decide some answers for yourself, to do something not because the church told you to do it - but through your own thought process.  To choose something, and also accept responsibility for those choices - for the possibility of "it's my own fault, it's my own choice, my own answer..." 

Some (not all, just some) answers need to come from within - we need to be given the freedom of making our own minds up and relying on our own judgement for a few things.  

I'm pretty sure there's never been a stock answer from a lesson manual on who you should marry, evolution, or who to vote for. I'm questioning your criticism of those "standard" answers you mention, which are nothing of the sort you're describing here.

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Guest MormonGator
1 minute ago, changed said:

Haha, you are right.  

Thanks. I wasn't trying to be a jerk, hope I didn't come across that way. 

3 minutes ago, changed said:

Life is like one of those movies with a twist ending.  You think one person is the bad guy, or you think the mystery will turn out as xyz... then you get a new piece of information and that new piece of information changes everything.  That is life.  There is always the possibility of that new piece of information changing everything we thought we knew.  

We agree 10,000% on this.

3 minutes ago, changed said:

I think honesty means saying I have faith in something, or I believe something, but I will never say I "know" something.... not in this life at least.

I know what you mean on this too. 

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32 minutes ago, changed said:

Church is also a support group, a place to learn that you are not the only one with questions, a place to learn you are not the only one with doubts.  

I have no problem with these statements.  But that is not what the OP was talking about.

Do you have sincere questions that are causing doubts?  You are correct.  That is what church is supposed to be about.  Is that what Sunday School is for?  I'd say it is a place to ask questions.  But the answers may be more appropriately discussed elsewhere because, very often, they are not the topic of the class/lesson.

35 minutes ago, changed said:

Yes - especially in church, if you do not want the church to appear as some mind-controlling entity whose job is to dictate everything and take away free agency... Church should encourage everyone to think, not tell everyone what to think.

I think you misunderstand what it means to "think" vs "believe".  It is very much the Church's job to tell people what to believe.  That is the primary job of a prophet.  This has nothing to do with thinking.  

We do our thinking when we first study it out in our minds (and seek learning out of the best books) and then seek out the Holy Ghost to confirm that which we learn.  This process holds true for secular learning as well as spiritual.

Edited by Guest
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Guest MormonGator
3 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

I have no problem with these statements.  But that is not what the OP was talking about.

Do you have sincere questions that are causing doubts?  You are correct.  That is what church is supposed to be about.  Is that what Sunday School is for?  I'd say it is a place to ask questions.  But the answers may be more appropriately discussed elsewhere because, very often, they are not the topic of the class/lesson.

 I think it's also important to remember that one persons "sincere question" might get another person thinking "Are you kidding me? How foolish!" So we ALL need to be more open and accepting of others and remember that in the end, we are brothers and sisters. 

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15 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

might get another person thinking "Are you kidding me? How foolish!" 

What's wrong with that?

I'll expound: I think there's a pretty big problem when we take the idea of not judging people and apply it to not judging ideas. Calling a person a fool is a blatant sin. Thinking a person a fool is problematic and likely unrighteous judgment. Thinking certain ideas foolish is practically mandatory to righteousness.

Edited by The Folk Prophet
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Just now, MormonGator said:

 I think it's also important to remember that one persons "sincere question" might get another person thinking "Are you kidding me? How foolish!" So we ALL need to be more open and accepting of others and remember that in the end, we are brothers and sisters. 

Yes, and yes.  That wasn't what I was talking about.  I was pointing out that if the topic is exaltation and eternal progression, then someone asking,"When are we going to learn more about Heavenly Mother?" is not pertinent to the topic at hand.  Ask the question?  Sure.  But it is really impossible to get into an in depth discussion on such a topic when we have virtually no knowledge about such topic and no way to answer such a thing.

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2 hours ago, MormonGator said:

 I think it's also important to remember that one persons "sincere question" might get another person thinking "Are you kidding me? How foolish!" So we ALL need to be more open and accepting of others and remember that in the end, we are brothers and sisters. 

Trust me, I know this all too well.

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