An LDS Vegetarian/Vegan???

[NeuroTypical]

25 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

 I am a vegetarian. 

Said the Gator.  My 6 yr old daughter once had a coloring book with an alligator in it.  She colored it green, with a bunch of red blood dripping from its smiling mouth.  She told me he was grinning because he had just eaten.  

[zil]

21 minutes ago, Backroads said:

I don't think God really cares on the issue.

I once saw an online group of LDS vegans who thought the church should make special vegan wards... yeah, that was weird.

Amen!  And hobby-centric wards, and career-centric wards, and a flat-earth ward, and global-warming wards, and a sheathen ward or two, and on and on.  Then we can all move so that like-minded people all live together and go to church together.  That'll be perfect.  No chance of negative consequences when the whole ward is united....

[Guest]

15 minutes ago, zil said:

Amen!  And hobby-centric wards, and career-centric wards, and a flat-earth ward, and global-warming wards, and a sheathen ward or two, and on and on.  Then we can all move so that like-minded people all live together and go to church together.  That'll be perfect.  No chance of negative consequences when the whole ward is united....

I want a kim-chee eating ward.  Forget the green jello salad with shredded carrots.  Forget the casseroles.

Kim chee and pulkogi with tons of pot stickers at every ward function.

[RooTheMormon]

@MormonGator, I didnt catch that. I just know some people actually feel that way hahaha

@Backroads

46 minutes ago, Backroads said:

I don't think God really cares on the issue.

I once saw an online group of LDS vegans who thought the church should make special vegan wards... yeah, that was weird.

What the heck.

Hahaha, Im sorry to them, but I dont think thats ever going to happen.

[Guest MormonGator]

2 minutes ago, RooTheMormon said:

@MormonGator, I didnt catch that. I just know some people actually feel that way hahaha

 

No worries. I know some people who sadly think that way as well. 

[Fether]

"We realize that the Word of Wisdom does not advocate total vegetarianism when we read another scripture:

“And whoso forbiddeth to abstain from meats, that man should not eat the same, is not ordained of God;

“For, behold, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the air, and that which cometh of the earth, is ordained for the use of man for food and for raiment, and that he might have in abundance.” (D&C 49:18–19; see also 1 Tim. 4:1–3.)

What is meat’s nutritional value? It contains good quality protein and iron. The general nutritional composition of eggs is enough like meat that they are considered a “meat alternate.” Milk and cheeses are also high in protein, but contain calcium instead of iron. Dried peas and beans such as pigeon peas, navy beans, and soybeans contain moderate to high quality protein as well as some iron, so these may be used as meat alternates.

Grains contain less protein than most of these other foods; it’s also of poorer quality. However, grain protein contributes to the day’s total, especially when eaten with meat or meat alternates. Vegetables contain only small amounts of protein, and fruits practically none at all. Thus a diet which relies totally on grains, fruits, and vegetables usually means protein deficiency.

In addition to protein, meats provide us with several of the vitamins in the vitamin B group: thiamin, niacin, riboflavin, pantothenic acid, pyridoxine. One member of this group, vitamin B12, is found only in meat, milk, cheese, and eggs; thus strict vegetarians must take a vitamin B12 supplement to avoid eventual irreversible damage to their spinal cord. Meats also contribute to a full feeling after a meal, because they contain some fat, which stays in our stomach longer than the other nutrients.

However, we are admonished to use meat sparingly. This caution is certainly understandable considering how heavily nineteenth-century Americans relied on meat when the Word of Wisdom was given. But even in our day of more balanced diets, we are aware of some problems when the meat intake is very high, as advocated by some dieters or by athletes who do not understand muscle physiology.

When meat makes up the main part of our food intake, we crowd out other foods and, consequently, their nutrients. In a recent extreme example, a widower had milk for breakfast, a hamburger for lunch, and steak for dinner. He disliked onions and other vegetables, thought potatoes were “fattening,” and was not interested in fruit. He developed scurvy! 5

Meats are also sources of fat, primarily saturated fat, and cholesterol. People who need to cut down their total calories may need to cut down on the total amount of fat in their diet. Individuals who have some of the risk factors associated with cardiovascular disease may need to limit their intake of saturated fat and cholesterol as well as total fat and calories. Table 1 shows the fat and cholesterol content of some foods, but individual recommendations for intake vary."

- Lora Beth Larson

It is amazing what we learn when we listen to and read General Conference

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, Fether said:

In a recent extreme example, a widower had milk for breakfast, a hamburger for lunch, and steak for dinner. He disliked onions and other vegetables, thought potatoes were “fattening,” and was not interested in fruit. He developed scurvy! 5

Meats are also sources of fat, primarily saturated fat, and cholesterol. People who need to cut down their total calories may need to cut down on the total amount of fat in their diet. Individuals who have some of the risk factors associated with cardiovascular disease may need to limit their intake of saturated fat and cholesterol as well as total fat and calories. Table 1 shows the fat and cholesterol content of some foods, but individual recommendations for intake vary."

- Lora Beth Larson

It is amazing what we learn when we listen to and read General Conference

Good stuff, Fether.

Scurvy is countered in a meat based diet by eating the liver.  It is high in vitamin C.  This is what Native Americans did while dining on a mostly meat diet.  Citrus fruits are not common in the colder plains states.  Indians are known to say "Scurvy is a white man's disease."

Saturated fats are a problem with meat consumption.  But trans fats are even worse and are more commonly found (and in greater abundance) in vegetable oils.

Vegetarianism is not a cut and dry thing.  You really have to know your stuff.

Edited July 18, 2017 by Guest

[Mike]

17 hours ago, RooTheMormon said:

I am seriously considering going vegetarian, or maybe even vegan. Why? Well first off I love animals, and I hate their lives. Birth, grow in a pen with crap for food and no love, die, get eaten. I have chickens and I love them literally to death. In the case of me starving, I would find something else to eat. So latey ive been considering this, but also for other reasons: a vegan lifestyle is actually very healthy if you get the protein you need, and it has been shown to have so many amazing benefits. And I know your thinking im only young and not to worry, but its extremely important to me. I am also a dancer, so a slimmer body is preferred. But I was worried that it would be bad in terms of the word of wisdom, and also that God gave us these animals to eat. I just think maybe theres a rule about this that I havent heard about?

I'd say go vegetarian or maybe even vegan as you understand them. All the things you mentioned which are important to you are good enough reasons to experience your consideration in order to decide whether it's for you--whether you are truly able and whether you will truly want to continue for the duration. Each of us does what we can to make the world a better place.

 

[SilentOne]

3 hours ago, zil said:

a sheathen ward or two

I imagine they can grab outside men for the bishopric, like they do for singles wards, but can you have a ward without an Elders Quorum?

[zil]

10 minutes ago, SilentOne said:

I imagine they can grab outside men for the bishopric, like they do for singles wards, but can you have a ward without an Elders Quorum?

We're sheathen - we can do whatever we want.  Like make that into a banner and attach it to the end of a sword.

[Guest]

17 minutes ago, zil said:

We're sheathen - we can do whatever we want.  Like make that into a banner and attach it to the end of a sword.

I'm going to stop referring to you as "ink muse."  I'll start calling you "sheathen mistress."

Edited July 18, 2017 by Guest

[zil]

1 minute ago, Carborendum said:

I'm going to stop referring to you as "ink muse."  I'll start calling you "sheathen mistress."

 

[SpiritDragon]

23 hours ago, RooTheMormon said:

I am seriously considering going vegetarian, or maybe even vegan.

Why?

Well first off I love animals, and I hate their lives. Birth, grow in a pen with crap for food and no love, die, get eaten.

I have chickens and I love them literally to death. In the case of me starving, I would find something else to eat. 

So latey ive been considering this, but also for other reasons:

a vegan lifestyle is actually very healthy if you get the protein you need, and it has been shown to have so many amazing benefits.

And I know your thinking im only young and not to worry, but its extremely important to me.

I am also a dancer, so a slimmer body is preferred.

But I was worried that it would be bad in terms of the word of wisdom, and also that God gave us these animals to eat. I just think maybe theres a rule about this that I havent heard about?

Hey Roo,

This sounds like an excellent idea. If you focus on getting your nutrition from mostly whole plant sources it is next to impossible not to get enough protein as long as you're meeting your energy needs. You only need around 5% of your calories to come from protein which almost all plant-foods will give you, so unless you plan to live on only fruit which tends to be lower in amino acids (protein) than vegetables, grains, nuts/seeds and legumes you should be just fine as far as protein is concerned. The obvious other thing to watch out for is not to eat a diet consisting mainly of processed foods. If your plan is to live on pasta, crackers, potato chips and sugary drinks then you will have to be concerned with protein among many things that are lacking.

The number one nutrient you do actually have to worry about getting on a vegan diet is vitamin B12. As a vegetarian that is not strictly vegan you'd likely get plenty of this as well depending on your allowed animal sources, but it's very safe to supplement either way.

Calcium is often brought up as a concern for those not using dairy products. Eating an abundance of leafy greens will ensure sufficient calcium.

Iron may also be a concern, but doesn't need to be for most people. While no plant foods are considered high in iron compared to animal sources there is plenty of iron in plant sources which is sufficient for most people, but you do need to watch that you're eating actual vegetables and so on to get a diversity and adequacy of many nutrients. The funny thing is that people walk around all the time with various nutrient gaps that are common when following the typical western eating style which is heavy in animal products, but people don't seem to get as worked up to tell them that how they're eating is going to lead to deficiencies. Here is an interesting chart showing some of the most common nutrition gaps in the general population (keep in mind this includes all kinds of extreme diets as well)

Other minerals such as zinc and iodine are also often found in lower levels in plant-based eaters. Zinc is abundant in nuts and seeds, particularly pumpkin seeds and iodine is higher in sea vegetables or you can simply use iodized salt.

You might also end up hearing about particular macronutrient ratios that are important. Macronutrients are those that provide calories - protein, carbohydrate, and fat. Some vegans are very set on the idea that they need to be very low fat and high carbohydrate and tout 80/10/10 as the magic ratio 80% carbs, 10% protein, 10% fat. Don't get caught up in worrying about that type of thing. There is strong evidence to suggest that macronutrient ratios are really not that important. What is important is meeting your micronutrient (vitamins and minerals) needs and your energy needs (total calories needed for body functions and daily activity).

[Guest]

6 hours ago, zil said:

 

So, I was wondering...

If someone asks you if the pen is mightier than the sword...

[zil]

Just now, Carborendum said:

So, I was wondering...

If someone asks you if the pen is mightier than the sword...

Depends on the pen, the sword, the users thereof, and the uses thereof.   (If you have further questions, please address them to my lawyer.)

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, zil said:

Depends on the pen, the sword, the users thereof, and the uses thereof.   (If you have further questions, please address them to my lawyer.)

So, JAG...

[Sunday21]

10 hours ago, zil said:

Amen!  And hobby-centric wards, and career-centric wards, and a flat-earth ward, and global-warming wards, and a sheathen ward or two, and on and on.  Then we can all move so that like-minded people all live together and go to church together.  That'll be perfect.  No chance of negative consequences when the whole ward is united....

and gaming wards, and gun toting wards, and how about a ward just for babies!

[Sunday21]

Dear @RooTheMormon,

i see a nutritionist. She asks me to have 25 grams of protein for each meal. I have to plan my meals. It is time consuming and a pain in the neck. So think of a 5 day mealplan with 25 grams of protein per meal. Without meat? Not easy.

25 grams of protein = .5 cups lentils, 1/2 cup peanut butter. 2 eggs. So that's 3 meals. Now what? Ming beans, kidney beans?

 I have a sister who is a vegetarian no fish but eggs. She does not get enough protein and..she has developed a hunch back

 For special diets there is a lot of fuss:plan meals, shop for meals, cook, and store food. That's a lot of time in the kitchen, space in cupboards, and the freezer. I have a special diet and I find it tedious and time consuming  and expensive. I do some food prep thing every single day. 

 

Edited July 19, 2017 by Sunday21

[Suzie]

On 7/17/2017 at 5:11 PM, RooTheMormon said:

I am seriously considering going vegetarian, or maybe even vegan.

Why?

Well first off I love animals, and I hate their lives. Birth, grow in a pen with crap for food and no love, die, get eaten.

I have chickens and I love them literally to death. In the case of me starving, I would find something else to eat. 

So latey ive been considering this, but also for other reasons:

a vegan lifestyle is actually very healthy if you get the protein you need, and it has been shown to have so many amazing benefits.

And I know your thinking im only young and not to worry, but its extremely important to me.

I am also a dancer, so a slimmer body is preferred.

But I was worried that it would be bad in terms of the word of wisdom, and also that God gave us these animals to eat. I just think maybe theres a rule about this that I havent heard about?

Hi there, I am vegan. If you have any questions, etc please feel free to PM.

[Suzie]

In a nutshell...lol

[RooTheMormon]

Thanks @Suzie , I will do so!

[RooTheMormon]

1 hour ago, Sunday21 said:

Dear @RooTheMormon,

i see a nutritionist. She asks me to have 25 grams of protein for each meal. I have to plan my meals. It is time consuming and a pain in the neck. So think of a 5 day mealplan with 25 grams of protein per meal. Without meat? Not easy.

25 grams of protein = .5 cups lentils, 1/2 cup peanut butter. 2 eggs. So that's 3 meals. Now what? Ming beans, kidney beans?

 I have a sister who is a vegetarian no fish but eggs. She does not get enough protein and..she has developed a hunch back

 For special diets there is a lot of fuss:plan meals, shop for meals, cook, and store food. That's a lot of time in the kitchen, space in cupboards, and the freezer. I have a special diet and I find it tedious and time consuming  and expensive. I do some food prep thing every single day. 

 

Well, good thing I like all of those things!

Im not going to be on a strict vegetarian diet, just when I have the option!

[estradling75]

On 7/17/2017 at 6:11 PM, RooTheMormon said:

But I was worried that it would be bad in terms of the word of wisdom, and also that God gave us these animals to eat. I just think maybe theres a rule about this that I havent heard about?

Lets break down the Word of Wisdom.  In practical applications there are two parts.  The Do Nots (No Coffee, no Tea, etc), and then all the rest.

The do nots are very clear with what the church means and expects.  All the rest falls in the category of "Teaching Correct Principles an governing ourselves" and it even says "Adapted to the weakest"   So what does that mean?  It means that you are expected to follow the Do Nots and then study it out and pray about the rest on what the Lord would have you do personally (ie Seek personal revelation on the matter)

In the case of some members they might be fighting other spiritual fires and have only the Do Nots in place and don't have time for the rest.  As long as they are trying to grow and master what God would have them work on then its ok. 

Some members might have some medical condition (diabetes, Crohns, etc) and need more care in their dietary selections.

Other might find that their body has negative reactions to certain things without having a diagnosed medical conditions, and work to avoid them.

Other might through study and thought might try various diets to include or exclude certain categories

Assuming that you/they are studying it out and taking your choice to God in prayer its all good.

The mistakes that are commonly made are:  1 Not studying it out.  2 Not taking it to God in prayer.  3 Mistaking a Personal Revelation on what you should be doing for a public revelation on what everyone should be doing

That third one causes a lot of discussion.. you are seeing glimmers of it here on this thread between Meat Eaters and Vegetarian/Vegans.  Both are potentially right and both are potentially wrong, because it is highly individualized and you can't speak for anyone but yourself (but boy do we sure like to try).

When it comes to the Church and things like temple recommends the they want the Do Nots and they want you to do whatever it is the Lord would have you do.  But baring a revelation to them of what God has told you, they have no way of knowing so they take your word for it.

 

 

[person0]

12 hours ago, Sunday21 said:

i see a nutritionist. She asks me to have 25 grams of protein for each meal.

I am basically a carnivorous beast.  (Okay so technically I'm omnivorous, but I love meat!)  If a meal doesn't have meat in it, it's not a 'real' meal, for me.  And yet, I usually don't get 25 grams of protein in each meal, nor 75 total grams per day, except when I drink protein powder on days I work out.

[Sunday21]

1 minute ago, person0 said:

I am basically a carnivorous beast.  (Okay so technically I'm omnivorous, but I love meat!)  If a meal doesn't have meat in it, it's not a 'real' meal, for me.  And yet, I usually don't get 25 grams of protein in each meal, nor 75 total grams per day, except when I drink protein powder on days I work out.

You know what...I think you are right. That level of protein is ridiculous.

Just looked this up: The DRI (Dietary Reference Intake) is 0.8 grams of protein per kilogram of body weight, or 0.36 grams per pound. This amounts to: 56 grams per day for the average sedentary man. 46 grams per day for the average sedentary woman.

Thank you so much for posting this, Person0.  I think my nutritionist is nuts! She has insisted on this level of protein repeatedly but ...clearly nuts!