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8 hours ago, zil said:

So what your saying here is that we should restrain our murderous impulses until the last 5 years or so of our lives?  Got it.

@MormonGator are you down to your last five years? You could be in a position to do the forum a huge favour. 

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On 7/22/2017 at 10:19 PM, Indeed98 said:

Hey, so I have been talking to this girl for a while now who is from the Philippines. I am from the US. I am going to BYUI and she is applying for BYU Hawaii. She is really sweet and is a RM and I talk with her sister sometimes as friends so I know she has feelings for me as well. I have told her that I am considering visiting her there in the Philippines, as I have been considering going on a trip this fall. Besides the obvious complications, any advice on how to proceed? Any advice on Filipina women would be appreciated hahaha :)

More than a quarter of a century ago, I went from Australia to the Philippines for the purpose of evaluating the possibility of marrying a Filipina - not to actually marry her but to evaluate the possibility, and if it turned out to be favourable, to then commence the necessary preparations, with a view to going back to the Philippines during 5 months later during semester break. As it turned out, we ended up getting married about 3 weeks after I arrived. Two weeks to the day after we got married I had to come back to Australia by myself. I didn't see her again for a little over 6 months while we sorted out visas and such like. Part of the delay was me working to save the money to pay for the visa and for an immigration consultant, but it turned out that he did almost nothing to earn what we paid him and what he did do we were more than capable of doing ourselves. The wait was not easy, and there ended up being a few Sundays when I attended church in another ward because I didn't want to deal with all the too-frequent queries from concerned friends in my own ward as to how much longer it was going to take. 

When I proposed, my about to be fiancee had all the necessary papers to attend BYU Hawaii, something that she and her family had been working on for some time and that her older sister had already done. Against some opposition from her mother, she gave all that up, for me. She reminds me, from time to time. :) 

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18 minutes ago, zil said:

PS: A sword is kinda hard to conceal.  Just sayin'...

I am beginning to suspect that you have magical powers! I have an aunt who is a postal witch. When she sends letters from Scotland, they arrive in Canada on the next day. Are you an implement witch? I personally could never get a fountain pen to work. I think you have special powers! 

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On 8/1/2017 at 5:29 PM, anatess2 said:

Words.

"Should Not".  I did not say that.  I am simply countering your statement that it is an absolute MUST to get one.  It is not.  That is entirely not the same as "Should not".  The dumb kid who married a Venezuelan lady was dumb.  Of course, any immigration attorney is better than a dumb kid.  If you're a dumb kid, hire a lawyer.  I'm not a dumb kid.  I didn't hire one.  But yes, I hired a travel agent to buy my tickets.  I didn't have to, of course, and I wouldn't tell anybody - You have to get a travel agent or suffer the consequences, or some such.

Agreed.

Had I not been through the process myself and associated myself with dozens and dozens of others doing the same thing for a couple of years, some with and some without lawyers, I'd be arguing for getting a lawyer right now and telling everyone who disagreed with me that they were idiots for not getting legal counsel. It does seem counter intuitive, but of the immigration lawyers that are even close to affordable, most of them are like the quack doctors of the medical field. Those that are genuine and really know what they are talking about will likely cost everything you have and more and their expertise is generally only needed in waiver cases. But take this for what it is, advice from a stranger on the internet.

Edited by Mahone
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On 8/1/2017 at 4:33 PM, Just_A_Guy said:

There was an LDS couple not too long ago that married in the US while the bride, a Russian national, was here in (IIRC) a tourist visa; and the result was that she had to return to Russia for nearly a year while her immigration issues were sorted out.

Lots of bad/inexperienced lawyers out there, to be sure.  But if you can find a good one, $200-$500 is a small price to pay for a consult that saves you that kind of a problem.  One cannot count on continued magnanimity from ICE, especially given the current political climate.

The first bit of research would tell them they can't do this. If they aren't going to even bother checking the basics of US immigration law then yes, hire a lawyer.

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47 minutes ago, Mahone said:

Agreed.

Had I not been through the process myself and associated myself with dozens and dozens of others doing the same thing for a couple of years, some with and some without lawyers, I'd be arguing for getting a lawyer right now and telling everyone who disagreed with me that they were idiots for not getting legal counsel. It does seem counter intuitive, but of the immigration lawyers that are even close to affordable, most of them are like the quack doctors of the medical field. Those that are genuine and really know what they are talking about will likely cost everything you have and more and their expertise is generally only needed in waiver cases. But take this for what it is, advice from a stranger on the internet.

True; though the same could be said about criminal defense lawyers.  The product they sell isn't really access to otherwise-unobtainable knowledge or the ability to do the legally impossible. It's the peace of mind of knowing that the job's being done right when the stakes of a misstep are obscenely high; the time one saves by not having to personally deal with the minutiae, and the sense of unbiased judgment borne of a lawyer's professional detachment.  (And often, frankly, it's the quality of the working relationship the lawyer has built with the courts and government lawyers and bureaucracies.)

In either a criminal or an immigration context, either you think you need the lawyer's services . . . or you don't.  That's fine, of course; but I wince whenever I hear someone say "you don't need a lawyer".  Because until I left private practice last year, an awful lot of folks who had received that kind of advice proceeded to make easily-avoidable mistakes with a litany of nasty consequences and wound up in my office, begging me to fix it.

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Guest MormonGator
17 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

proceeded to make easily-avoidable mistakes with a litany of nasty consequences and wound up in my office, begging me to fix it.

Sounds like you have a lot in common with bishops! 

Edited by MormonGator
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45 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

True; though the same could be said about criminal defense lawyers.  The product they sell isn't really access to otherwise-unobtainable knowledge or the ability to do the legally impossible. It's the peace of mind of knowing that the job's being done right when the stakes of a misstep are obscenely high; the time one saves by not having to personally deal with the minutiae, and the sense of unbiased judgment borne of a lawyer's professional detachment.  (And often, frankly, it's the quality of the working relationship the lawyer has built with the courts and government lawyers and bureaucracies.)

In either a criminal or an immigration context, either you think you need the lawyer's services . . . or you don't.  That's fine, of course; but I wince whenever I hear someone say "you don't need a lawyer".  Because until I left private practice last year, an awful lot of folks who had received that kind of advice proceeded to make easily-avoidable mistakes with a litany of nasty consequences and wound up in my office, begging me to fix it.

In a criminal defense context, i'd absolutely agree with you. But immigration is a different beast entirely. From those I associated with while going through this process, of those that said they had a lawyer, many later regretted the choice to do so because they didn't believe the advice they received really assisted them in anyway and others claimed they in fact made the process harder than it needed to be due to the lawyer giving them incorrect advice.

Visajourney.com is a good forum for those going through US immigration - the question has been asked countless times on there and the answer from those that have been through the process is nearly always the same. A straight forward case does not need a lawyer; most people don't use a lawyer and are almost always fine. The exception is waiver cases and in said waiver cases, a standard immigration lawyer is not going to help. You need one that specialized in waivers and they will not be even close to cheap.

I don't anticipate that most of those going through the criminal courts will advise to not use a lawyer and it seems to be the exception, not the norm when they don't use one. It's apples and oranges.

Edited by Mahone
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I don't have anything to add regarding immigration but I will say that cultural differences in a marriage are often extremely challenging. All new relationships feel blissful and invincible, just remember that reality always sets in, and being an interracial couple with intercultural backgrounds are added challenges on top of the "regular" relationship stuff. That's not to say it isn't doable - sure it is - people do it every day. But be sure you're considering all scenarios when it comes to having a relationship and marrying someone of not just a different race but a different ethnic culture. It is not uncommon for Filipinas to send money and gifts back home, and in large quantities to both immediate family members and extended family members. This is a cultural expectation and one that she will likely continue as long as she is able to provide x. Would this be acceptable to you? And if yes, will you put limitations on what is gifted? Not everyone can afford to do this and I have seen this become an issue over time, firsthand. Beyond that, there will be other things that will be difficult to adjust to, especially Filipino wife/mother matriarch roles... Are you prepared to tell your own mother, grandmother, etc. that your wife has the final say? Sounds silly but if you haven't seen how a Filipina wife/mother runs a household, you should probably schedule that into your calendar upon a visit, and pay close attention... Last note, as mentioned earlier, if she marries you - she is forever attached to you by the hip - no exceptions. She cannot get a divorce and if you decide to at some point call it quits, she will indeed wear a scarlet letter on her forehead, as she will never be eligible to start over again. Do some deep thinking on this, ask yourself how much of this relationship is sincere and how much of it is infatuation. Good luck.  

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On 8/1/2017 at 10:31 PM, Vort said:

Which means dinner will be expensive and a goodnight kiss will be long, complicated, and probably messy.

Dinner WILL BE expensive... well, it's in pesos, so it's dollars times, what, 45 now?  But yes, it's a common occurrence that you ask the girl out to dinner in the Philippines and half her clan shows up and expects you to foot the bill.  I mean, it's a common understanding there that if you are tight with money on just a dinner date trying to impress a girl, you're not gonna be open to joining the family resources-sharing tradition.

But here's a tip:  You don't need to go to the tourist-priced areas.  Yes, McDonald's (and the Filipino equivalent Jollibee) is tourist priced.  The best food can be found in the local holes where you can feed an army for less than the price of 5 happy meals, in some hut on the side of the mountain next to a waterfall where they kill the chicken for your soup right there in the kitchen.

Edited by anatess2
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