LDS culture problem


Sweety D
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47 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

I think preaching and lecturing  can be (key words, can be) self serving. Like it or not, when you (generic) lecture bikini girl, you are also sort of showing the world how righteous and moral and you think you are.  Like it's your job to preach to everyone about their sins. 

Yes, I know not everyone who lectures bikini girl is like that, but many people will still view you like that. 

 

And now, behold, I say unto you, that the thing which will be of the most worth unto you will be to declare repentance unto this people

D&C 16:6 (and 15:6)

Edited by The Folk Prophet
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1 minute ago, pam said:

Then again we were talking about what is taught in the For Strength of Youth.  It teaches not to have sex before marriage and to remain faithful to your spouse after marriage.  Nothing has changed for adults.  We are still taught (even as adults) that we are not to have sex before marriage and we need to remain faithful to our spouse.  Again, nothing has changed for adults.  It's not a childhood standard.  It's a standard for adults as well.  Adults should not be sexually active unless it is with someone that they are legally married to.  

But that's why we have specific doctrine on those other points for adults. Some doctrine and some counsel is different for adults. This is such an obvious fact. 

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1 hour ago, Snigmorder said:

Movies are written and filled by the world and their view of things. They're full of violence, vulgarity, disgusting abuses of sex (showing or talking about it at all really,) ransacking the name of our Lord and our Father, harshness and cruelty. The movies are filled with the character of the devil, he's the one who influences these things in the earth. To tolerate these things for the sake of entertainment is a personal choice, but salvation is a personal choice. 

Your opinion, With those thoughts I agree you should never go to the movies

1 hour ago, Snigmorder said:

Two-piece swimsuits are nudity, they are pornographic, they are equal to the moneychangers at the temple. They are absolutely morally untenable.

Wow, just wow.  I for one am a nature lover and love and admire all of God's creations.

1 hour ago, Snigmorder said:

Caffeine is a neurotoxin and is addicting. Drink it all you want, it's not a commandment. But you shouldn't have to be commanded it all things.

I know personally a GA who has large holdings in the Coca Cola Company......and yes he partakes

 

1 hour ago, Snigmorder said:

Regardless of whether the church claims doctrine, or whether you approve of their "advice" is irrelevant. 

These things are derived from uncreated truths, the way things really are, which reside in their fullness in the Eternal Civilization. 

Truth cannot be reduced by flustered embarrassment before the Gentiles, or an irreverent delegation of truth into memes. 

I don't even understand these 3 sentences...

Edited by omegaseamaster75
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6 minutes ago, zil said:

13 hits in General Conference on the exact phrase "r-rated", 24 hits in the Ensign.  Normally I'd be polite about it, but I'm wasting my time, since you could easily find these yourself (google is your friend), and therefore you clearly don't want to know.

https://www.lds.org/search?lang=eng&query="r-rated"&collection=general-conference

...only 12 of the GC talks come up in this search, going to look for the 13th in the Gospel LIbrary app...

October 1977, "Rated A", by Marvin J. Ashton.

...but there are 13 of them! :eek:  What an unfortunate number.  Satan must have inspired them.

I'm gonna let you find the 24 Ensign articles.  Then I'm gonna let you find all the talks, scriptures, articles, books, etc. which clearly teach principles which clearly counsel against partaking of the kinds of things which garner an R rating on movies.  This is not nearly as hard a concept as you seem to want to make it, which is also how I know I'm wasting my time.  @Just_A_Guy put it perfectly in his post.  If you want more light and knowledge, go back and re-read that.

I was just in the process of putting this together.  And you beat me to it.

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1 hour ago, Sweety D said:

You have some interesting opinions. But they are just that, opinions. Nothing you mentioned is factual or doctrinal. Yet again back to making thing up. The only place you will find your opinion written is in Doctrine and Covenants section 139.

Concerning soda, the sugar in Coke is far worse for your health than caffeine. This is well documented. In fact sugar is more addictive than cocaine, again well documented facts. Do you drink Sprite or sugary fake orange juice? Dare I judge you for this terrible health choice? Of course not. I don't drink caffeine (or any soda), but not because a poorly created subculture has decided to write D&C 139 and define it as a sin.

Maybe we should stop defining what we think standards for others should be.

 I understand what you're saying, and what I'm saying isn't necessarily contrary to what you're saying. We shouldn't run faster than we have strength. But there are certain attitudes that ought to be jettisoned. 

There's a difference between weakness and stubborn pride.

There's a difference between wearing a bikini and denying that it's wrong, and wearing a bikini but knowing it's wrong, and proceed anyway due to your current weakness.

I think there's a bigger issue with complacency than with the actual substance of caffeine, movies, etc. To not humble ourselves before the Man of Holiness, our Father, and give up our comforts, be they physical or emotional, is a mistake. We are in for nothing less in this covenant. You disagree with what I consider wrong, fine. But no man can change my mind.

Edited by Snigmorder
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31 minutes ago, Sweety D said:

People should not be talking about caffeine as a sin (because it's not) in over the pulpit in sacrament meeting

Have you experienced this regularly? And I mean besides the one quirky fellow back whenever.

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7 minutes ago, omegaseamaster75 said:

Your opinion, With those thoughts I agree you should never go to the movies

Wow, just wow.  I for one am a nature lover and love and admire all of God's creations.

I know personally a GA who has large holdings in the Coca Cola Company......and yes he partakes

 

I don't even understand these 3 sentences...

What I've said about the movies demonsterable. I'm surprised by your statement.

Admiring naked women (bikinis) will get you in a lot of trouble, Spiritually or otherwise.

That general authority is in error and needs to humble himself.

Then you need to study the doctrines and learn what the scriptures say.

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49 minutes ago, Sweety D said:

Following the counsel of the "Brethren" is always a good idea. First thing to understand though, avoiding R-rated movies is not their counsel. As I mentioned it was only ever mentioned to the Youth, very clearly. Never once has the church made any other statement out R-rated movies. Getting a tattoo has been much more clearly defined as something we should not do. https://www.lds.org/topics/tattooing?lang=eng 

You seem to think I am advocated for picking and choosing what doctrine (or counsel) to follow. It's quite the opposite. My point is 2 fold, we judge to often and make up our own doctrine (or counsel).

Actually, this is not true.

Counsel for the Youth is not just for the Youth.  Many times, church leaders, including General Authority, will reference For the Strength of Youth or Friend or Liahona in speaking to the Church.  Counsel to the Youth is not different counsel.  Rather, it is a different application of the same counsel - applicable to things that relates to that age group.

The counsel to avoid R-rated movies was given to the Youth but it is applied Churchwide, not just the youth.  Modern prophets changed the counsel to not specify R-rated movies and just reference them as inappropriate movies in general as the Church expanded rapidly worldwide (no such ratings exists in other countries) and movies lower than an R-rating become more and more loose in their standards.  The change, therefore, was not to remove the advice from the Church in avoiding R-rated movies, rather, the counsel was clarified to include non R-rated movies.

So yes, you are currently making your own doctrine.  Isn't that interesting?

Edited by anatess2
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43 minutes ago, Sweety D said:

Someone once told me we don't graduate from childhood standards. But we do. Children should not be sexually active. Children should not support families financially... I could go on.  Children are different than adults in maturity, responsibility, development and accountability. 

Yes, we've always been told that MORE is expected from adults than from children.  Show me ANY exception to this rule.  There are none.

We don't expect children to not be sexually active, while we expect adults to be sexually active.  We don't expect ANYone to be sexually active outside the bonds of marriage.  We also expect people to make reasonable and prayerful decisions on whom to marry.  And if they can't, they shouldn't be married regardless of age.

These expectations are the same for all.

Edited by Guest
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19 minutes ago, zil said:

13 hits in General Conference on the exact phrase "r-rated", 24 hits in the Ensign.  Normally I'd be polite about it, but I'm wasting my time, since you could easily find these yourself (google is your friend), and therefore you clearly don't want to know.

https://www.lds.org/search?lang=eng&query="r-rated"&collection=general-conference

...only 12 of the GC talks come up in this search, going to look for the 13th in the Gospel LIbrary app...

October 1977, "Rated A", by Marvin J. Ashton.

...but there are 13 of them! :eek:  What an unfortunate number.  Satan must have inspired them.

I'm gonna let you find the 24 Ensign articles.  Then I'm gonna let you find all the talks, scriptures, articles, books, etc. which clearly teach principles which clearly counsel against partaking of the kinds of things which garner an R rating on movies.  This is not nearly as hard a concept as you seem to want to make it, which is also how I know I'm wasting my time.  @Just_A_Guy put it perfectly in his post.  If you want more light and knowledge, go back and re-read that.

Terrible investigative work. Finding a "hit" is different than actually reading the article and understanding the context. Fortunately for me I have read many of these in the past and can tell you my point still stands. I won't waste time on all of them, but i'll show you 1

This one here you referenced:

https://www.lds.org/general-conference/1996/10/the-savior-is-counting-on-you?lang=eng

Did you read it? No? The counsel is directed at for the youth. But either way, i'm not saying it's good to watch these movies. I have said it many times. Stop judging, and please stop making up doctrine and telling people what they should and should not do. 

 

Edited by Sweety D
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17 minutes ago, Sweety D said:

But that's why we have specific doctrine on those other points for adults. Some doctrine and some counsel is different for adults. This is such an obvious fact. 

Please then enlighten me on what is different.  I must be pretty ignorant because I guess I'm not seeing what is such an obvious fact.

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Just now, Snigmorder said:

What I've said about the movies demonsterable. I'm surprised by your statement.

 

You are correct in part, I will say that movies in general are not uplifting.  They are entertaining and that's why we go.  Everyone has their limits you have a very low tolerance for movies and the satan worshipers who make that smut.
 

3 minutes ago, Snigmorder said:

Admiring naked women (bikinis) will get you in a lot of trouble, Spiritually or otherwise.

 

I have never seen a naked woman who was wearing a bikini.

4 minutes ago, Snigmorder said:

That general authority is in error and needs to humble himself.

Yeah ok, things must be nice in the glass house you're living in. For the record drinking caffeinated soft drinks is NOT A SIN.  Is it good for you? probably not but neither is overeating or not exercising.  

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1 minute ago, Sweety D said:

Terrible investigative work. Finding a "hit" is different than actually reading the article and understanding the context. Fortunately for me I have read many of these in the past and can tell you my point still stands. I won't waste time on all of them, but i'll show you 1

This one here you referenced:

https://www.lds.org/general-conference/1996/10/the-savior-is-counting-on-you?lang=eng

Did you read it? No? The counsel is directed at for the youth. But either way, i'm not saying it's good to watch these movies. I have said it many times. Stop judging, and please stop making up doctrine and telling people what they should and should not do. 

 

How about this one?

https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2001/04/you-can-t-pet-a-rattlesnake?lang=eng

Or this one?

https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2001/04/priesthood-power?lang=eng

Or this?

https://www.lds.org/general-conference/1993/10/touch-not-the-evil-gift-nor-the-unclean-thing?lang=eng

Quote

Brothers, sisters, and parents are not as happy together as they used to be. We find less peace and contentedness in our hearts and homes. We do things that later we wish we had not done. Contention looms its vicious head, and when contention is present, the Spirit of Christ departs from us.

Again I say, leave it alone. Turn it off, walk away from it, burn it, erase it, destroy it. I know it is hard counsel we give when we say movies that are R-rated, and many with PG-13 ratings, are produced by satanic influences. Our standards should not be dictated by the rating system. I repeat, because of what they really represent, these types of movies, music, tapes, etc. serve the purposes of the author of all darkness.

This was addressed to the priesthood body -- both Melchizedek and Aaronic.

There are plenty more.  But I guess you're only interested in those speeches that back up your claim.

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1 minute ago, pam said:

Please then enlighten me on what is different.  I must be pretty ignorant because I guess I'm not seeing what is such an obvious fact.

I gave you 2 already. Multiply and replenish the earth. Financially supporting a family. Both commandments for adults only. 

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4 minutes ago, Sweety D said:

I gave you 2 already. Multiply and replenish the earth. Financially supporting a family. Both commandments for adults only. 

Wrong again.

Same advice given to everybody.  Children and adults alike are to prepare for the time when they can get married and multiply and replenish the earth... which means, they also need to prepare to support a family - financially, and most especially, spiritually.  If you're not teaching your kids this, you are not doing your job as an LDS parent.

And here's my pet peeve... lots of parents encourage their daughters to go into STEM fields.  The same parents don't ever think to encourage their daughters to go into the Motherhood field.  A failure of society, that is.  Yes, you can say I'm judging society.  I don't have a problem with that.

Edited by anatess2
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7 minutes ago, Sweety D said:

T

https://www.lds.org/general-conference/1996/10/the-savior-is-counting-on-you?lang=eng

Did you read it? No? The counsel is directed at for the youth. But either way, i'm not saying it's good to watch these movies. I have said it many times. Stop judging, and please stop making up doctrine and telling people what they should and should not do. 

 

While the speaker may have felt inspired to direct this to the youth, I don't think he ever intended it to be taken as excluding adults.  In fact, in his talk there was even counsel for fathers.  

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13 minutes ago, Snigmorder said:

Admiring naked women (bikinis) will get you in a lot of trouble, Spiritually or otherwise

I would argue there's a difference between a bikini and the whole range of two-piece suits. Arguably a bikini bottom is fairly innocuous.

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13 minutes ago, Sweety D said:

I gave you 2 already. Multiply and replenish the earth. Financially supporting a family. Both commandments for adults only. 

I was responding to what you said...And I quote:  Children should not be sexually active.

You didn't clarify this with any further explanation.  I was showing that the standard for being sexually active is the same for adults as it is for children.  

Even as adults we shouldn't be multiplying and replenishing the earth unless it is within the bonds of marriage.

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1 minute ago, Sweety D said:

I gave you 2 already. Multiply and replenish the earth. Financially supporting a family. Both commandments for adults only. 

Who says?

Little children are told to prepare themselves for all of it.  And as soon as they are able mentally, physically, and spiritually, they are expected to do so.  They are told to wait on sex until they are married just as adults are.

And I'd submit that children are supposed to contribute to the financial support of the family just as soon as they are able.  It's only today's society that tells people differently.  Read Little Britches (and the sequel Man of the Family) and Defending the Indefensible.  There is a lot of wisdom there.

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