The Folk Prophet Posted July 25, 2017 Report Share Posted July 25, 2017 Just now, Backroads said: Arguably a bikini bottom is fairly innocuous. I agree. It is arguable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweety D Posted July 25, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2017 2 minutes ago, Carborendum said: How about this one? https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2001/04/you-can-t-pet-a-rattlesnake?lang=eng Or this one? https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2001/04/priesthood-power?lang=eng Or this? https://www.lds.org/general-conference/1993/10/touch-not-the-evil-gift-nor-the-unclean-thing?lang=eng This was addressed to the priesthood body -- both Melchizedek and Aaronic. There are plenty more. But I guess you're only interested in those speeches that back up your claim. https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2001/04/you-can-t-pet-a-rattlesnake?lang=eng This is about his school aged granddaughter. Youth. https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2001/04/priesthood-power?lang=eng Context is pornography, if the R-rated movie is pornograpgic, yep we should avoid it. This has been made very clear by the Brethren. https://www.lds.org/general-conference/1993/10/touch-not-the-evil-gift-nor-the-unclean-thing?lang=eng In this talk he says "Our standards should not be dictated by the rating system." he also counsels about being careful with PG-13 movies. Is that doctrine now? No PG-13 movies? Should we keep playing this game? I realize I'm coming off as extremely defensive here. But it's because we need to stop forcing our standards that we have set on ourselves, to others. People are leaving the church because of this culture I see around us. And it's sad to me. omegaseamaster75 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snigmorder Posted July 25, 2017 Report Share Posted July 25, 2017 3 minutes ago, omegaseamaster75 said: You are correct in part, I will say that movies in general are not uplifting. They are entertaining and that's why we go. Everyone has their limits you have a very low tolerance for movies and the satan worshipers who make that smut. I have never seen a naked woman who was wearing a bikini. Yeah ok, things must be nice in the glass house you're living in. For the record drinking caffeinated soft drinks is NOT A SIN. Is it good for you? probably not but neither is overeating or not exercising. You and I have different definitions of nudity and different definitions of sin. Nudity is not defined (I don't care how the world defines it) by whether or not the nipples and genitals are showing. Bikinis are nudity. Righteousness is not a series of compartmentalized behaviors. It is an attitude which is an outgrowth from light and truth, the way things really are. The commandments are not righteousness per se. The point of the law is to bring about righteousness. Asking whether or not caffeine is a sin is the wrong question to be asking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anatess2 Posted July 25, 2017 Report Share Posted July 25, 2017 3 minutes ago, Sweety D said: Should we keep playing this game? This is how you teach children? Do as I say not as I do? Where in LDS gospel is that taught? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snigmorder Posted July 25, 2017 Report Share Posted July 25, 2017 6 minutes ago, Backroads said: I would argue there's a difference between a bikini and the whole range of two-piece suits. Arguably a bikini bottom is fairly innocuous. You're not a man are you. Vort 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 25, 2017 Report Share Posted July 25, 2017 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Sweety D said: This is about his school aged granddaughter. Youth. That was the example. The speech was addressed to both Melchizedek and Aaronic priesthood. Again, evidence that the standards for adults and children are the same. 8 minutes ago, Sweety D said: Context is pornography, if the R-rated movie is pornograpgic, yep we should avoid it. This has been made very clear by the Brethren. That is a myopic view. Combine it with other speeches on "It's Only Violence." Or do you need me to look those up for you as well? You can't pick and choose. Isolate enough stuff and you can justify anything. 8 minutes ago, Sweety D said: In this talk he says "Our standards should not be dictated by the rating system." he also counsels about being careful with PG-13 movies. Is that doctrine now? No PG-13 movies? Yes, he does. And now it's YOUR turn to understand the context. He said that "Even some PG-13 movies" should be avoided. Too many people us the "should not be dictated by the rating system" to mean "We can be more lax than the rating system." No, he specifically gives the example of some PG-13 movies to indicate that we should be MORE strict than the rating system, not more lenient. 8 minutes ago, Sweety D said: Should we keep playing this game? Only if you want to. I don't have an axe to grind here. I could drop this issue if you do. I really don't care. But you keep responding -- not to me, but the forum, of which I'm a member. 8 minutes ago, Sweety D said: I realize I'm coming off as extremely defensive here. But it's because we need to stop forcing our standards that we have set on ourselves, to others. People are leaving the church because of this culture I see around us. And it's sad to me. Who's forcing? I don't think anyone here is for FORCING the standards on anyone. But I WILL declare they certainly are Church Standards. And while I agree with you that they are not on the same level as commandments, why on earth would you want to condemn people for stating they are the standards? People are leaving because of the standards? Or because people are being too judgmental? If the standards, then they really need to repent. If because of people being to judgmental, then those doing the judging need to repent. But I don't really think that is what is happening. But that is yet another discussion. Edited July 25, 2017 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anatess2 Posted July 25, 2017 Report Share Posted July 25, 2017 4 minutes ago, Snigmorder said: Nudity is not defined (I don't care how the world defines it) by whether or not the nipples and genitals are showing. Bikinis are nudity. Now see... this is how you confuse people. Especially the foreign-speaking ones. Words have meaning. Nudity has meaning. You can't just use the word to fit your own definition of it unless we are all in agreement that your definition is what we're going by. Rather, we go by the standard English language definition so we can understand ourselves. Nudity is devoid of clothing. Not a stitch. Backroads and MrShorty 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pam Posted July 25, 2017 Report Share Posted July 25, 2017 7 minutes ago, Sweety D said: In this talk he says "Our standards should not be dictated by the rating system." he also counsels about being careful with PG-13 movies. Is that doctrine now? No PG-13 movies? Should we keep playing this game? I realize I'm coming off as extremely defensive here. But it's because we need to stop forcing our standards that we have set on ourselves, to others. People are leaving the church because of this culture I see around us. And it's sad to me. I have to agree that the counsel to be careful with PG-13 movies is very wise counsel. Whether doctrinal or not. It is very wise counsel. Of course that is up to the individual to follow or not. mordorbund 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Backroads Posted July 25, 2017 Report Share Posted July 25, 2017 3 minutes ago, Snigmorder said: You're not a man are you. Bikinis tend to cover more of the bottom than many one pieces yet you aren't calling against those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pam Posted July 25, 2017 Report Share Posted July 25, 2017 So what I'm getting from all of this...if it's not doctrinal don't follow it. If it is doctrinal...then follow it. You get to pick and choose. That's what I'm getting from this. Backroads 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Folk Prophet Posted July 25, 2017 Report Share Posted July 25, 2017 9 minutes ago, Sweety D said: People are leaving the church because of this culture I see around us. People are leaving the church because we think they shouldn't watch R-rated movies? 10 minutes ago, Sweety D said: But it's because we need to stop forcing our standards that we have set on ourselves, to others. How is it that you feel justified in forcing this standard of yours upon us then? pam 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 25, 2017 Report Share Posted July 25, 2017 1 minute ago, anatess2 said: Nudity is devoid of clothing. Not a stitch. I'm afraid you're showing you second language weakness. If one wears a sleeveless shirt, it is perfectly lingusitically correct to say the arms are nude. It is no different than the word "naked." Yet Joseph noted that Moroni's hands were "naked, a little above the wrists." Does that mean he was completely naked? No. Hence, nudity is always a question of degrees. Just how much nudity becomes pornographic is a judgment. But today's society is pushing the limits all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snigmorder Posted July 25, 2017 Report Share Posted July 25, 2017 (edited) I would like to add that the I've said was not learned or acquired from conference talks, church sermons, or "church culture." I hadn't watched conference or gone to church in 13 years until last September. The point being, some of the things I've said echo what the brethren have said and what the church puts out. I would argue that this is because they come from the same source, and not some arbitrary culture of lay-doctrine. Edited July 25, 2017 by Snigmorder pam and Backroads 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Backroads Posted July 25, 2017 Report Share Posted July 25, 2017 Just now, pam said: So what I'm getting from all of this...if it's not doctrinal don't follow it. If it is doctrinal...then follow it. You get to pick and choose. That's what I'm getting from this. You're forgetting you're not allowed to mention non-doctrinal good advice at risk of making someone feel bad. pam and Vort 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pam Posted July 25, 2017 Report Share Posted July 25, 2017 Just now, Backroads said: You're forgetting you're not allowed to mention non-doctrinal good advice at risk of making someone feel bad. Or that they are just contributing to the horrible LDS culture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweety D Posted July 25, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2017 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Carborendum said: ... Or because people are being too judgmental? ... If because of people being to judgmental, then those doing the judging need to repent. But I don't really think that is what is happening. Ending the R-rated discussion. To each his own. Taking a snippet from your message to respond to, then need to get some work done. People being judged is by far the biggest problem. I am a current Bishop of a family ward, few know better than I do about how big of a problem this is. This is the number one topic I discuss with people multiple times a week. I'm telling you, people are leaving the church because of this. Edited July 25, 2017 by Sweety D Maureen and omegaseamaster75 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweety D Posted July 25, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2017 4 minutes ago, pam said: I have to agree that the counsel to be careful with PG-13 movies is very wise counsel. Whether doctrinal or not. It is very wise counsel. Of course that is up to the individual to follow or not. Yes, we agree 100%. This is why we should pray often! eddified 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Folk Prophet Posted July 25, 2017 Report Share Posted July 25, 2017 1 minute ago, Sweety D said: People being judged is by far the biggest problem. People being judged is the biggest problem in the church? Uh...okay.......taking that.....seriously. Very....very........very..........seriously. eddified 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anatess2 Posted July 25, 2017 Report Share Posted July 25, 2017 11 minutes ago, Sweety D said: I realize I'm coming off as extremely defensive here. But it's because we need to stop forcing our standards that we have set on ourselves, to others. People are leaving the church because of this culture I see around us. And it's sad to me. Okay, you're hurt that people left the Church. I understand this. The previous bishop of our ward left the Church because his daughter wanted to be Pinocchio and be a real boy. I was sad of it too. But, the Church doesn't change just so they can keep membership. Rather, they continue to teach Truth to those who will plant their seed of faith and allow it to take root. Those who leave due to "culture"... they need their faith nourished. And that nourishment does not come from telling them it's okay to watch R-rated movies. It comes from... the usual... studying scriptures, praying, fasting, pleading in all humility for the guidance of the Holy Ghost, and... of course, to study and heed the counsel of the prophets. pam and my two cents 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mordorbund Posted July 25, 2017 Report Share Posted July 25, 2017 pam and Vort 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweety D Posted July 25, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, The Folk Prophet said: People being judged is the biggest problem in the church? Uh...okay.......taking that.....seriously. Very....very........very..........seriously. Didn't say it was the biggest problem in the church. Context was 'reasons' for leaving the church. And yes, in my ward, it's the biggest reason, which is a problem. Edited July 25, 2017 by Sweety D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Folk Prophet Posted July 25, 2017 Report Share Posted July 25, 2017 10 minutes ago, anatess2 said: Nudity is devoid of clothing. Not a stitch. Which is why that playboy centerfold I have hanging in my office is okay. She's wearing a necklace and high-heels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anatess2 Posted July 25, 2017 Report Share Posted July 25, 2017 6 minutes ago, Carborendum said: I'm afraid you're showing you second language weakness. If one wears a sleeveless shirt, it is perfectly lingusitically correct to say the arms are nude. It is no different than the word "naked." Yet Joseph noted that Moroni's hands were "naked, a little above the wrists." Does that mean he was completely naked? No. Hence, nudity is always a question of degrees. Just how much nudity becomes pornographic is a judgment. But today's society is pushing the limits all the time. Point taken. Nudity in reference to a part of the body is different from fully naked. Nudity unqualified is... not a stitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Backroads Posted July 25, 2017 Report Share Posted July 25, 2017 5 minutes ago, pam said: Or that they are just contributing to the horrible LDS culture. That's just it. What's so terrible about not drinking caffeine or not watching R-rates movies? Snigmorder, eddified and pam 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snigmorder Posted July 25, 2017 Report Share Posted July 25, 2017 5 minutes ago, Backroads said: Bikinis tend to cover more of the bottom than many one pieces yet you aren't calling against those. I agree, here's my complete opinion on swimsuits. Wear a T-shirt and swim trunks (with a one piece underneath.) That goes for men also (minus the one piece underneath.) As far as I'm concerned there's no reason to sacrifice modesty for the sake of some kind of cultural construct "swimming." If someone gets it, great. If they don't, great. I'll sleep like a baby. eddified and The Folk Prophet 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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