Latest Boy Scout poop (and I don't use that term lightly)

[NeuroTypical]

Dillon, I have to say, your claims are mostly foreign to my (somewhat limited) experience with teen girls.   My daughters have both gone to camp for upwards of 2 years, no boys is a big thing there.  Various teen girls throughout my life, friends, nieces, etc, and parents and leaders of teen girls have painted a pretty consistent picture that just doesn't match what you're saying.  

I mean yes, when a boy shows up, that's different.  I remember driving with my 17 yr old buddy up to Young Women's camp to 'spring' his 17 yr old girlfriend.  I've never in my entire life had so many eyes intently on me or so many offers of conversation in such a short amount of time.  

But if there are no boys around?  Maybe this is just a secret nobody has told you yet - but when girls get together and there are no boys, they really do end up doing non-boy related things and talking about non-boy related stuff...

[anatess2]

2 hours ago, pam said:

You make it seem like girls don't have some of the same aggression or the same want to conquer the difficult things.  To go farther than they ever have before.  To want to do something that no one thought they could do.  But yet they did it.  

I just don't see that as a boy thing only.   

I wrote a response then saw @Backroads response.  Backroads hit the nail on the head.

So, let's look back - you said you go climbing on girl's camp, implying that climbing is a Boy activity.  I told you it is not.  What makes climbing a boy activity is not the Climbing.  It is how they approach the mountain.

Edited August 3, 2017 by anatess2

[anatess2]

9 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

But if there are no boys around?  Maybe this is just a secret nobody has told you yet - but when girls get together and there are no boys, they really do end up doing non-boy related things and talking about non-boy related stuff...

See, I thought this was what @Dillon was saying - that girls don't like doing boy stuff without boys because they'd rather do girl stuff.  But then he said some things that made me think I was wrong in that understanding.

Girls are "pack animals".  They go to the bathroom in groups, they go to the mall in groups, they like spending time with each other in groups.  Girl's Night Out is such a common phrase that it's silly to think girls don't like camping without boys.

[zil]

8 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

Girls are "pack animals".  They go to the bathroom in groups, they go to the mall in groups, they like spending time with each other in groups.  Girl's Night Out is such a common phrase that it's silly to think girls don't like camping without boys.

Apparently I'm not a girl.  (Or maybe all this generalizing is more problematic that people want to believe.  Good thing I'm not a people.)

[wenglund]

Might as well fully embrace the PC culture and rename the organization LGBTQIP... of America.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[Backroads]

2 hours ago, Dillon said:

Are we talking about the same age girls? I am talking about teenage girls.  Teenage, raging hormones girls. Teenage girls that think about boys 24/7. These girls do not want to do the same things as boys unless they are doing it with boys.

Have you ever spent a significant amount of time with a teenage girl?

[pam]

2 hours ago, anatess2 said:

 

So, let's look back - you said you go climbing on girl's camp, implying that climbing is a Boy activity.  I told you it is not.  What makes climbing a boy activity is not the Climbing.  It is how they approach the mountain.

Then you are talking about a difference in attitudes which is different than what is a girl or a boys activity.  Girls can still climb mountains.  Yes boys might look at it differently but it's still the same activity.  It's still mountain climbing.

[Mike]

6 hours ago, Dillon said:

The young women's planned a camp out, or tried to,  and every girl asked were the boys coming along. They did not want to go camping with just the girls. 

@Dillon, are you a male, or are you a female? Are you one of the youth, or are you a leader? (I'd better say that I'm not about embarrassing people. I just want to understand the context as I compare your remarks to my own experiences, if that makes any sense).

 

Edited August 3, 2017 by Mike

[Budget]

44 minutes ago, Mike said:

@Dillon, are you a male, or are you a female? Are you one of the youth, or are you a leader? (I'd better say that I'm not about embarrassing people. I just want to understand the context as I compare your remarks to my own experiences, if that makes any sense).

 

... I was asking myself similar questions.  Along with "Is Dillon just trying to dig himself into a hole here?" "Is this a regional US or differently country culture thing?" and more.  Basically just trying to figure out where this view of 'all' teenage girls comes from....

[NightSG]

11 hours ago, pam said:

I know when I was a teenage girl we did "rough" camp.  We had to dig our own latrines, we cooked on campfires, we learned to tie knots.  Many things that the boys do

But did you compete to see who could pee the fire out from farthest away?

[anatess2]

16 hours ago, pam said:

Then you are talking about a difference in attitudes which is different than what is a girl or a boys activity.  Girls can still climb mountains.  Yes boys might look at it differently but it's still the same activity.  It's still mountain climbing.

That's what I just told you.  Climbing (and hiking and all the other things you mentioned) is not just a boy thing contrary to what you implied.

Edited August 4, 2017 by anatess2

[pam]

27 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

That's what I just told you.  Climbing (and hiking and all the other things you mentioned) is not just a boy thing contrary to what you implied.

Hahahha I never once said climbing and hiking are just a boy thing.  YOU implied that.  I've been stating all along that they aren't just boy things.

[Dillon]

Well I read my responses and some didnt come out as I was trying to imply. I am male, I am very familiar with young women as my family is loaded with teenage girls, my mom teaches in YW. I try very hard to get these young women on different paths than the girls they are around at school. It can be difficult. I take my nieces, their close friends,  in the outdoors any chance I get, most of the time they are not interested. I try to plan camping trips, they are not interested. I try to get them off their phones, out in nature,  they are not interested. I can tell you what they are interested in, boys. Some of you think your daughters do nothing but hang out with other girls, they love hanging out with each other,  its all they want to do, well that is being naive. These girls meet in packs maybe, but to meet boys. These girls tell you they are going to their friend Sarah's house to spend the night, when they are actually going to a party with Sarah to meet their older boyfriend. I am getting off the OP here but my whole point of this is to say girls are just like boys, they want to run around in the woods, camp, fish, etc. is just not accurate.

[anatess2]

21 minutes ago, pam said:

Hahahha I never once said climbing and hiking are just a boy thing.  YOU implied that.  I've been stating all along that they aren't just boy things.

Sigh.

Let me remind you how this conversation went:

21 hours ago, pam said:

I tend to disagree with that as least as far as LDS girls.  Thousands and thousands of girls attend girl's camp every summer without boys and love it.

 

21 hours ago, anatess2 said:

 

Pam, you are correct.  But are you doing "boy" type stuff at girls camp?  I wasn't aware they do.  Dillon has a point - generally, girls don't like doing boys stuff.  They do boy stuff when they're with boys.  (and no, I don't mean little girls playing with trucks and GI Joes).

 

21 hours ago, pam said:

I was just asking a friend of mine via facebook messaging who is a leader for girls camp almost every year.  She said that most of the time they go to Hinckley Scout Camp and participate in a lot of activities like archery, canoeing, climbing, and hiking.   But they also focus on the spiritual as well.  And they do some crafts.    

 

21 hours ago, anatess2 said:

But those aren't specifically boy stuff...

 

I know you're old , but this conversation is just from one page ago.

Edited August 4, 2017 by anatess2

[pam]

2 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

 

I know you're old, but this conversation is just from one page ago.

I'm done with this conversation.  When you want to insult me now with bringing my age into the conversation I have nothing more to say.

[anatess2]

Just now, pam said:

I'm done with this conversation.  When you want to insult me now with bringing my age into the conversation I have nothing more to say.

Somebody got triggered.

You can't even take an age joke anymore?  I added the smiley on an edit.

But seriously - you are not tracking this conversation well.  Don't put that on me.

[NeuroTypical]

56 minutes ago, Dillon said:

I try very hard to get these young women on different paths than the girls they are around at school. It can be difficult. I take my nieces, their close friends,  in the outdoors any chance I get, most of the time they are not interested. I try to plan camping trips, they are not interested. I try to get them off their phones, out in nature,  they are not interested.

Forgive me if I miss my guess here, but you're still a dependent child living in your parent's home, right?  Do these girls know you've appointed yourself their life coach, and you've assigned yourself duties to get them to make appropriate life choices, and you try to steer them away from things you think they shouldn't do?

 

Quote

I can tell you what they are interested in, boys. Some of you think your daughters do nothing but hang out with other girls, they love hanging out with each other,  its all they want to do, well that is being naive. These girls meet in packs maybe, but to meet boys. These girls tell you they are going to their friend Sarah's house to spend the night, when they are actually going to a party with Sarah to meet their older boyfriend.

Ok, so I recognize everything here, I think we've all seen this, and most of us have been this.  This is normal behavior for unattached teen kids, boy or girl.  I think you get into trouble when you start using blanket statements like this is all they do, or all girls do this, or girls do this all the time.  

 

Quote

I am getting off the OP here but my whole point of this is to say girls are just like boys, they want to run around in the woods, camp, fish, etc. is just not accurate.

It is true, girls are not just like boys.  But again, watch out for blanket statements.  My wife could outfish her father at 16 and loved camping.  My 16 year old is too busy taking her prizewinning turkeys to fair to bother with boys.  Maybe get some phrases like "all the girls I know", or "most of the girls at my school", or "all of my three sisters" going.  There's a whole choir here, and not everyone sings the same part, even if that's all you see.

[Dillon]

You are correct, I should not generalize as there are some girls that do not want to conform to what many girls see young women doing in the media.  The media shows these young women dressed immodestly running from boyfriend to boyfriend and try to paint a picture that this is what girls should be doing.  I am not trying to be a life coach, just trying to show kids a different way of life that is out there and that can be enjoyable. Not just sticking there heads in their phones all day.

[Guest MormonGator]

2 hours ago, pam said:

I'm done with this conversation.  When you want to insult me now with bringing my age into the conversation I have nothing more to say.

When someone says "Oh you've been triggered" it's usually their way of trying to justify their own rudeness. Some people just don't know any better, or worse-they know better and don't care. Ignoring it is the best thing to do. 

Edited August 4, 2017 by MormonGator

[Just_A_Guy]

3 hours ago, anatess2 said:

That's what I just told you.  Climbing (and hiking and all the other things you mentioned) is not just a boy thing contrary to what you implied.

She didn't imply that they *are* boy activities; she implied that they *are often SEEN as* boy activities even though in fact both genders can and do enjoy them. 

I realize that it can be quite a heady rush to think that one has caught @pam in an error; but in this case it just ain't so.

[anatess2]

1 hour ago, MormonGator said:

When someone says "Oh you've been triggered" it's usually their way of trying to justify their own rudeness. Some people just don't know any better, or worse-they know better and don't care. Ignoring it is the best thing to do. 

We've been friends.  Lately, you've been acting like you're not.  I thought you know me by now.  I guess not.

[anatess2]

30 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

She didn't imply that they *are* boy activities; she implied that they *are often SEEN as* boy activities even though in fact both genders can and do enjoy them. 

I realize that it can be quite a heady rush to think that one has caught @pam in an error; but in this case it just ain't so.

If that's the case, then she should have said so after my post instead of saying the following response below which FURTHER implies that she indicated those were boy stuff.  And further, to say that I am the one that implied those are boy stuff is just ridiculously in error from the flow of conversation that no... I'm not conceding this one.  I'm gonna go catch pam...

On 8/3/2017 at 0:41 PM, pam said:

So what is specifically boys stuff?  

 

[pam]

14 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

If that's the case, then she should have said so after my post instead of saying the following response below which FURTHER implies that she indicated those were boy stuff.  And further, to say that I am the one that implied those are boy stuff is just ridiculously in error from the flow of conversation that no... I'm not conceding this one.  I'm gonna go catch pam...

 

@anatess2 So you said:  Pam, you are correct.  But are you doing "boy" type stuff at girls camp? 

I responded with:  

I know when I was a teenage girl we did "rough" camp.  We had to dig our own latrines, we cooked on campfires, we learned to tie knots.  Many things that the boys do.  I do know that many of the girls camps today still teach some basic skills of survival.  At least in my area.  But then we also have trek where they go the route the pioneers did pushing handcarts and living out on the plains.

I do think that girl's camp today focuses more on the spiritual. 

You then said:  But those aren't specifically boy stuff...

I then asked:  So what is specifically boys stuff?  

Because you brought up the idea of "boy stuff" I was simply asking a question for clarification as to what you thought boy stuff was.  Now if you read more into that simple question that is your problem not mine.

 

 

[Just_A_Guy]

1 hour ago, anatess2 said:

And further, to say that I am the one that implied those are boy stuff is just ridiculously in error from the flow of conversation that no... I'm not conceding this one. 

Hmm; as I follow the conversation, it was you who led out with

On 8/3/2017 at 10:16 AM, anatess2 said:

Pam, you are correct.  But are you doing "boy" type stuff at girls camp?  I wasn't aware they do.  

Now, you've sort of laid a trap here (unintentionally, I trust); because American culture has traditionally classed various activities as "boy stuff" or "girl stuff".  You seem to adopt this paradigm; but later it becomes clear that you're actually applying and holding us to an alien worldview (using climbing as an example): that the difference between "boy activities" and "girl" activities isn't actually what the activity is; but the way each gender *thinks* about the activity.

I'm not saying your paradigm is wrong.  But I am suggesting that just about everyone else here is using a different paradigm, resulting in a miscommunication.  And I suspect you'll dismiss this as imperialism or provincialism or white privilege; but it seems to me that an American thinking like an American on an American-hosted forum where 85%-plus of forum members are also American, is not necessarily "wrong" or something worth gloating over.    

It's rather like Lucy Van Pelt telling everyone what a lousy kicker Charlie Brown is, when the real problem is that she either can't or won't hold the ball in one place.

Edited August 4, 2017 by Just_A_Guy

[askandanswer]

On 04/08/2017 at 2:19 AM, pam said:

I know when I was a teenage girl we did "rough" camp.  We had to dig our own latrines, we cooked on campfires, we learned to tie knots.

I'm guessing that this is because when you were a teen age girl flushing toilets and gas stoves hadn't been invented