Few Will Find Celestial Glory


clbent04
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On ‎8‎/‎12‎/‎2017 at 7:37 PM, clbent04 said:

The utility for me is making an educated guess on where I'm most likely to end up should I continue on the path I'm on (not going to church, but still a good person overall, self-pegged as a Terrestrial candidate). Better to be honest with yourself. I get how that wouldn't make sense for most people who have higher aspirations for themselves

Along with the thing I read with Joseph F. Smith, I also read something else once.  Once you choose to be a member of the Church, the Terrestrial Kingdom is no longer on your plate.  Your choices will be either outer darkness...suffer for your sins and then the Telestial Kingdom (with the possibility of being raised to the Celestial...which is further expanded upon by JFS son, Joseph Fielding Smith in the Doctrines of Salvation), OR the Celestial Kingdom.  You either keep your covenants and repent or not.  The degree of punishment may seem harder, but your degree of Glory which you may attain is ALSO greater than those who do not accept the gospel (deceived by the cunning of men) in the first place.

Personally, I'd repent and shoot for the top rather than resign myself to an eternity of hell.

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On ‎8‎/‎12‎/‎2017 at 9:43 PM, DoctorLemon said:

I would very much like to see sources for these numbers.  I very much question their validity.

Here is a talk to consider:   https://www.lds.org/liahona/2016/11/saturday-morning-session/am-i-good-enough-will-i-make-it.p9?lang=eng

In this talk, Elder Cornish states, "If you will really try and will not rationalize or rebel - repenting often and pleading for grace - you positively are going to be good enough [for the Celestial Kingdom]."

 

That is an absolutely awesome statement.  I can't like it enough!

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The "second washing" was part of the discussion.  It is now done away.  An apostle visiting the Houston Temple when it was rennovated a long while back asked the temple president,"How many people who come through this temple have had their second washings and annointings?"  None.  That was the end of the conversation.  I never even knew that existed.

Just a Clarification...and I can't really go into it more than what I'm going to say now.  It is not done away.

The statement that none have had it in the Houston Temple may be true...but the ordinance remains.

This is the time for the fullness of the gospel, and that requires EVERY ordinance...even if some ordinances are very rarely done.

 

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http://emp.byui.edu/marrottr/Degrees of Glory.htm

Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson, pp392-393. Concerning those who will receive the terrestrial, or lesser, kingdom, the Lord said, "These are they who are not valiant in the testimony of Jesus; wherefore, they obtain not the crown over the kingdom of our God" (D&C 76:79). Not to be valiant in one's testimony is a tragedy of eternal consequence. These are members who know that this latter-day work is true but who fail to endure to the end. Some may even hold temple recommends, but they do not magnify their callings in the Church. Without valor, they do not take an affirmative stand for the kingdom of God. Some seek the praise, adulation, and honors of men; others attempt to conceal their sins; and a few criticize those who preside over them. (Come unto Christ, p. 13; Conference Report, April 4, 1982, p. 89.)

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13 hours ago, JohnsonJones said:

Along with the thing I read with Joseph F. Smith, I also read something else once.  Once you choose to be a member of the Church, the Terrestrial Kingdom is no longer on your plate.

I'd like to see that quote.

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On August 5, 2017 at 5:20 PM, clbent04 said:

Matthew 7:14 states "Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it."  So does this mean less than half of us under God's realm will ever make it to the Celestial Kingdom?

Since there are very few who will be going to Outer Darkness, and not a high percentage of us who are murderers and rapists (Telestial Kindgom - not that all murderers and rapists can't be forgiven and possibly qualify for a higher kingdom), I think most of us will be in the Terrestrial Kingdom.

How would you interpret Matthew 7:14, and if you interpret it the way I do, how do you define "a few"?  Because I define a few as not more than 20 percent.

That "straight and narrow is the road to God" and "broad is the road leading to hell". 

ETA: 2 Nephi 9: 41

Edited by Bill (Papa) Lee
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4 hours ago, Bill (Papa) Lee said:

That "straight and narrow is the road to God" and "broad is the road leading to hell". 

ETA: 2 Nephi 9: 41

Even if it's describing the road, the fact it says "few there be that find it" means few of us will find their way to the Celestial Kingdom

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4 hours ago, clbent04 said:

Even if it's describing the road, the fact it says "few there be that find it" means few of us will find their way to the Celestial Kingdom

Even if you count every Mormon living or dead, we are a tiny part of believers in all of time. If there be few, even among Latter-day Saints, it will not be because God wishes it to be so. But God, as a loving parent does all he can for his children who let him, hence the different kingdoms within heaven. For those who become as the sons of perdition, all is lost. 

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On 8/18/2017 at 3:56 PM, clbent04 said:

Even if it's describing the road, the fact it says "few there be that find it" means few of us will find their way to the Celestial Kingdom

I dont agree. I also think it is describing the road but that road is in mortality on this earth and not the final result. In the end most will find the road to eternal life.

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  • 1 year later...
8 hours ago, let’s roll said:

Infants who die inherit the Celestial Kingdom.  There have been billions of such infants.  That fact makes clear our premortal life was determinative for many of our brothers and sisters.  It may well be the case that more will qualify for the Celestial Kingdom in the premortal life then in mortality.

Hi @let’s roll Glad that you are here! 

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On 8/5/2017 at 7:20 PM, Just_A_Guy said:

The Telestial Kingdom also includes adulterers, fornicators, and those who "loveth and maketh a lie".  I fear it will hold the vast majority of those who lived to adulthood - at least, in 21st-century western society.

And when we talk about murder, don't forget about the west's acceptance of abortion.  We have much to answer for.

A careful reading of D&C 76 indicates the Telestial Kingdom will be inherited by those who were FORMALLY adulterers, fornicators and lovers of lies. Unrepentant adulterers, fornicators, lovers of lies and murderers cannot inherit a kingdom of post-resurrection glory, for all who inherit any kingdom of glory must first sincerely repent and confess to God the Father that Jesus is the Christ. D&C 76 tells us the inheritors of the Telestial Kingdom will enjoy the ministry of angels, the ministry of beings of greater glory from the Terrestrial Kingdom and the presence and companionship of the Holy Spirit (the Holy Ghost). There isn’t anyway a member of the human family can be entitled to such blessings of God’s grace while remaining hardened in sin.

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44 minutes ago, Jersey Boy said:

A careful reading of D&C 76 indicates the Telestial Kingdom will be inherited by those who were FORMALLY adulterers, fornicators and lovers of lies. Unrepentant adulterers, fornicators, lovers of lies and murderers cannot inherit a kingdom of post-resurrection glory, for all who inherit any kingdom of glory must first sincerely repent and confess to God the Father that Jesus is the Christ. D&C 76 tells us the inheritors of the Telestial Kingdom will enjoy the ministry of angels, the ministry of beings of greater glory from the Terrestrial Kingdom and the presence and companionship of the Holy Spirit (the Holy Ghost). There isn’t anyway a member of the human family can be entitled to such blessings of God’s grace while remaining hardened in sin.

Indeed.  I wonder if a broad (though imperfect) paradigm for categorizing the kingdoms is that the Celestial repent out of love borne of faith; the Terrestrial repent out of duty borne of faith; the Telestial repent out of expediency borne of knowledge; and the sons of perdition fail to repent, choosing continued rebellion even in the face of knowledge.  

Edited by Just_A_Guy
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34 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

Indeed.  I wonder if a broad (though imperfect) paradigm for categorizing the kingdoms is that the Celestial repent out of love borne of faith; the Terrestrial repent out of duty borne of faith; the Telestial repent out of expediency borne of knowledge; and the sons of perdition fail to repent, choosing continued rebellion even in the face of knowledge.  

Very likely accurate. Another way of understanding how the assignment to the three kingdoms works is that the more one is “compelled to be humble,” the lesser the reward. For example, the eventual inheritors of the Telestial Kingdom are first thrust into hell where they suffer in the winepress of the fierceness of the wrath of Almighty God until they learn to feel genuine remorse and are thereby moved to sincere repentance. Meanwhile, those who suffer in hell but for reasons that are beyond me never feel moved to repent are the sons of perdition.

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2 hours ago, Jersey Boy said:

Very likely accurate. Another way of understanding how the assignment to the three kingdoms works is that the more one is “compelled to be humble,” the lesser the reward.

I don't know if this is absolute when it comes to this life. Many, many, many people are "compelled" to be humble by circumstances in this life -- loss, hurt, pain, injury, etc... That's part of why we're here. It's often a blessing to be compelled to humility.

2 hours ago, Jersey Boy said:

Very likely accurate. [---] For example, the eventual inheritors of the Telestial Kingdom are first thrust into hell where they suffer in the winepress of the fierceness of the wrath of Almighty God until they learn to feel genuine remorse and are thereby moved to sincere repentance. Meanwhile, those who suffer in hell but for reasons that are beyond me never feel moved to repent are the sons of perdition.

A fair amount of assumption here. I'm not sure it's "very" likely to be accurate, not to mention "likely" accurate, or just "accurate".

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5 hours ago, The Folk Prophet said:

I don't know if this is absolute when it comes to this life. Many, many, many people are "compelled" to be humble by circumstances in this life -- loss, hurt, pain, injury, etc... That's part of why we're here. It's often a blessing to be compelled to humility.

A fair amount of assumption here. I'm not sure it's "very" likely to be accurate, not to mention "likely" accurate, or just "accurate".

As to your first point, I was speaking of the specific state of humility that causes one to gladly and gratefully believe in Christ and accept his gospel.

As to your second item, do not the scriptures repeatedly make it abundantly clear that the Lord is honor bound to reward those who willingly obey him because they are powerfully motivated to do so by their sincere love for him, and that the Lord is  less likely to reward those who disrespect him and resist his will? As a good illustration of this principle at work, does not the 76th Section of the D&C tell us that among those who inherit the Terrestrial Kingdom are those were not valiant in their testimony of Jesus? Basic, common sense stuff.

Edited by Jersey Boy
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1 hour ago, Jersey Boy said:

As to your first point, I was speaking of the specific state of humility that causes one to gladly and gratefully believe in Christ and accept his gospel.

Which is oft times found through situations that drive us to it when we might not have been driven to it otherwise.

1 hour ago, Jersey Boy said:

As to your second item, do not the scriptures repeatedly make it abundantly clear that the Lord is honor bound to reward those who willingly obey him because they are powerfully motivated to do so by their sincere love for him, and that the Lord is  less likely to reward those who disrespect him and resist his will? 

Sure. But that's not what I'm suggesting may not be accurate.

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7 hours ago, The Folk Prophet said:

Which is oft times found through situations that drive us to it when we might not have been driven to it otherwise.

Sure. But that's not what I'm suggesting may not be accurate.

There always have been and there are now plenty of people throughout the world who are otherwise meek, humble and self-effacing yet not disposed to believe and accept the restored gospel Christ. All of us are commanded to come unto Christ with broken hearts and contrite spirits, that means all of us have more than enough sin and imperfection to bring us to our knees and drive us to Christ and his salvation, but only if we choose to be so driven. That means we’re all in the same boat, for all are expected to accept the reality that they are lower than the dust of the earth and beggars before God. Even so, the undeniable fact is that there are some, like the prophet Abraham, who realize their lowly position before the Almighty and proactively choose to humble themselves without having to be.compelled to be humble.

The truth is that it’s impossible for anyone to get into the good graces of God without first being meek and lowly in heart and in sure possession of a broken heart and contrite spirit. And even though we all have to deal with precisely the same set of sobering realities while in this fallen state, there are some who will receive the greater blessings and glories because they choose to diligently obey the law of the harvest. And while it’s true that our merciful and just God will take certain mitigating factors into account before rendering a final judgement on any of his children, the fact is that after all is said and done there will be some when will be rewarded more than others because they were more faithful, diligent and anxiously engaged in the profession of their faith.

Why do you think there are going to be varying degrees of glory and reward in the eternal world?

Edited by Jersey Boy
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On 9/22/2018 at 8:34 AM, let’s roll said:

Infants who die inherit the Celestial Kingdom.  There have been billions of such infants.  That fact makes clear our premortal life was determinative for many of our brothers and sisters.  It may well be the case that more will qualify for the Celestial Kingdom in the premortal life then in mortality.

 

then is earth life superfluous?

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3 hours ago, Jersey Boy said:

There always have been and there are now plenty of people throughout the world who are otherwise meek, humble and self-effacing yet not disposed to believe and accept the restored gospel Christ. All of us are commanded to come unto Christ with broken hearts and contrite spirits, that means all of us have more than enough sin and imperfection to bring us to our knees and drive us to Christ and his salvation, but only if we choose to be so driven. That means we’re all in the same boat, for all are expected to accept the reality that they are lower than the dust of the earth and beggars before God. Even so, the undeniable fact is that there are some, like the prophet Abraham, who realize their lowly position before the Almighty and proactively choose to humble themselves without having to be.compelled to be humble.

The truth is that it’s impossible for anyone to get into the good graces of God without first being meek and lowly in heart and in sure possession of a broken heart and contrite spirit. And even though we all have to deal with precisely the same set of sobering realities while in this fallen state, there are some who will receive the greater blessings and glories because they choose to diligently obey the law of the harvest. And while it’s true that our merciful and just God will take certain mitigating factors into account before rendering a final judgement on any of his children, the fact is that after all is said and done there will be some when will be rewarded more than others because they were more faithful, diligent and anxiously engaged in the profession of their faith.

Why do you think there are going to be varying degrees of glory and reward in the eternal world?

What you're suggesting is not the way we have been promised it works. We have been told that if we sincerely repent the Lord will forgive our sins and remember them no more. There is no qualifier -- "unless you were driven to that repentance by tragedy or trauma and compelled unlike your neighbor Bill who just repented without the trauma and tragedy." There's is no condition like that in the promise. The promise is only related to our sincerity. If we repent -- honestly and truly repent, we are forgiven as if we had never sinned in the first place. That's the miracle of the Atonement. It's not about how much you sinned, how badly you sinned, or how low you got before kicked in the pants enough to turn it around. It's only about sincerely turning to Christ.

Yes, I am aware of the parable of the prodigal son and the implication that the faithful son will have a greater reward. I'm not sure I accept the inference most place upon it because they tend directly contradict the promises given concerning repentance. In short, it says that all the father has will be the son's who remained. It does not say that all the father has will not be the returned son's if he has sincerely repented and returned. All that the father has is given to all who come to him and sincerely repent. That is the promise.

I should add for the sake of clarity and based on some of the other ideas given in this forum/thread -- one other qualifier given is "this life is the time to prepare to meet God".

Edited by The Folk Prophet
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9 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

What you're suggesting is not the way we have been promised it works. We have been told that if we sincerely repent the Lord will forgive our sins and remember them no more. There is no qualifier -- "unless you were driven to that repentance by tragedy or trauma and compelled unlike your neighbor Bill who just repented without the trauma and tragedy." There's is no condition like that in the promise. The promise is only related to our sincerity. If we repent -- honestly and truly repent, we are forgiven as if we had never sinned in the first place. That's the miracle of the Atonement. It's not about how much you sinned, how badly you sinned, or how low you got before kicked in the pants enough to turn it around. It's only about sincerely turning to Christ.

 

who guarantees that we will not relapse in the sky

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