Jesus Christ Savior of the Universe/Multiverse?


clbent04
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5 hours ago, clbent04 said:

If I wanted to ask that, I would've posted about it

Hear, O ye heavens, and give ear, O earth, and rejoice ye inhabitants thereof, for the Lord is God, and beside him there is no Savior.

Great is his wisdom, marvelous are his ways, and the extent of his doings none can find out.

-D&C 76:1-2

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29 minutes ago, Snigmorder said:

Hear, O ye heavens, and give ear, O earth, and rejoice ye inhabitants thereof, for the Lord is God, and beside him there is no Savior.

Great is his wisdom, marvelous are his ways, and the extent of his doings none can find out.

-D&C 76:1-2

Edited by clbent04
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I believe for every Adam there is a Christ.  I believe that God the Father has worlds without end, but when talking about the atonement, and the path and destiny of this world, i.e. the children of this world, he is only speaking of this world.  Seems I may be a minority in this view. There is only one savior to me, just as I have only one Father in heaven, but there are infinite persons who share godhood, but may not be directly associated with me or this world.

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1 hour ago, bytebear said:

I believe for every Adam there is a Christ.  I believe that God the Father has worlds without end, but when talking about the atonement, and the path and destiny of this world, i.e. the children of this world, he is only speaking of this world.  Seems I may be a minority in this view. There is only one savior to me, just as I have only one Father in heaven, but there are infinite persons who share godhood, but may not be directly associated with me or this world.

I like the thought of each world having its own personal Savior who shared His mortal existence with the inhabitants on the same world they live. The thought of an alien Savior is bizarre and impersonal to me for such an atoning relationship to exist.

Now, the problem with multiple Saviors existing for every world out there is we know it was by the very Jesus Christ who lived on our Earth through whom God the Father created many worlds. So I doubt you would have a scenario where Jesus Christ from this Earth created another world in which another perfect being assumes the role of the Savior. That just gets too confusing.

Another theory could be Jesus Christ not only lived and died in this world, but He relived the same experience over and over again on all worlds He created. Just the thought of our Savior experiencing atonement after atonement for a number of worlds innumerable to man makes me not want to support this idea either, although I suppose it would be equally enduring for our Savior to atone for all worlds in one lifetime, as it would be to break up the atonement to pertain only to the world Jesus is living on at the time.

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  • 5 months later...

Hey, did you ever find an answer to this? I’ve had the exact same question. These are the two facts that I can’t wrap my head around together. 

1) Jesus Christ is the Savior of worlds without number

2) Jesus Christ only had a mortal ministry on this earth.

The odds of these both being true are quite literally 1/infinity. It sounds an awful lot like like the the entire universe revolving around the earth.

I’ve had enough experiences with the Gospel to know that there is an answer for every question, but this is one I’ve struggled with for a while and need some help on.

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11 hours ago, Trevor said:

Hey, did you ever find an answer to this? I’ve had the exact same question. These are the two facts that I can’t wrap my head around together. 

1) Jesus Christ is the Savior of worlds without number

2) Jesus Christ only had a mortal ministry on this earth.

The odds of these both being true are quite literally 1/infinity. It sounds an awful lot like like the the entire universe revolving around the earth.

I’ve had enough experiences with the Gospel to know that there is an answer for every question, but this is one I’ve struggled with for a while and need some help on.

I doubt number one is true. Number two is of course true. 

One must look at the context of the above quoted scriptures as well as to the times in which they were revealed unto man. 

Likely the term Son in the POGP quote is essentially a title.   D&C quote clearly applies to this earth and none other. For us, there is no savior other than the Christ. 

In fairness all the above are opinions. No one really knows the answer.

my personal belief is that each world has its own Saviour. 

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12 hours ago, Trevor said:

Hey, did you ever find an answer to this? I’ve had the exact same question. These are the two facts that I can’t wrap my head around together. 

1) Jesus Christ is the Savior of worlds without number

2) Jesus Christ only had a mortal ministry on this earth.

The odds of these both being true are quite literally 1/infinity. It sounds an awful lot like like the the entire universe revolving around the earth.

I’ve had enough experiences with the Gospel to know that there is an answer for every question, but this is one I’ve struggled with for a while and need some help on.

Unfortunately, no answer. This is probably my biggest hang up with Mormon theology. I just don’t get it. 

This question bothered me even thinking about it last week. I found some consolation knowing how infinitely powerful Jesus Christ was while here in his mortal existence. He healed a man on Earth from afar saying to the Centurion that brought message of his sick servant that the man would be healed according to the Centurion’s faith (Luke 7:1-10). I have never seen such great faith Jesus said as he was able to remotely cure the man. So why would physical proximity have anything to do with the Savior’s reach when we have this example?

I don’t want to go down this rabbit hole anymore since it’s just negative for my simple understanding, but who’s to say we didn’t luck out with being THE ONE AND ONLY world where Jesus Christ spent his mortal existence? Seems very far fetched to me. But I just have to accept it. To me it makes the most sense to just accept it even though I don’t understand it. I have to accept I don’t know all the mysteries of God because I could never deny the truths of the gospel I DO KNOW.

I think that even though Christ only had a mortal experience on this Earth, surely He would have made meaningful visitations on all other Earths. I just better stop writing now cause like I said, this is a rough one for me too. For every assumption I make, I end up countering myself with additional doubts I didn’t have before. Just accept this one, brother. Cling to what you do know is true, and let the Lord fill in the rest over time.

Edited by clbent04
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I'll just leave this here.

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All kingdoms have a law given; And there are many kingdoms; for there is no space in the which there is no kingdom; and there is no kingdom in which there is no space, either a greater or a lesser kingdom. And unto every kingdom is given a law; and unto every law there are certain bounds also and conditions.

... And again, verily I say unto you, he hath given a law unto all things, by which they move in their times and their seasons; And their courses are fixed, even the courses of the heavens and the earth, which comprehend the earth and all the planets. And they give light to each other in their times and in their seasons, in their minutes, in their hours, in their days, in their weeks, in their months, in their years—all these are one year with God, but not with man. The earth rolls upon her wings, and the sun giveth his light by day, and the moon giveth her light by night, and the stars also give their light, as they roll upon their wings in their glory, in the midst of the power of God.

Unto what shall I liken these kingdoms, that ye may understand? Behold, all these are kingdoms, and any man who hath seen any or the least of these hath seen God moving in his majesty and power.

... Behold, I will liken these kingdoms unto a man having a field, and he sent forth his servants into the field to dig in the field. And he said unto the first: Go ye and labor in the field, and in the first hour I will come unto you, and ye shall behold the joy of my countenance. And he said unto the second: Go ye also into the field, and in the second hour I will visit you with the joy of my countenance. And also unto the third, saying: I will visit you; And unto the fourth, and so on unto the twelfth.

And the lord of the field went unto the first in the first hour, and tarried with him all that hour, and he was made glad with the light of the countenance of his lord. And then he withdrew from the first that he might visit the second also, and the third, and the fourth, and so on unto the twelfth. And thus they all received the light of the countenance of their lord, every man in his hour, and in his time, and in his season— Beginning at the first, and so on unto the last, and from the last unto the first, and from the first unto the last; Every man in his own order, until his hour was finished, even according as his lord had commanded him, that his lord might be glorified in him, and he in his lord, that they all might be glorified.

Therefore, unto this parable I will liken all these kingdoms, and the inhabitants thereof—every kingdom in its hour, and in its time, and in its season, even according to the decree which God hath made.

 

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@clbent04, @Trevor as others have shared Lds.org is a good place to start with your question, and then allow the Holy Ghost to further enlighten you. (Source)

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The infinite Atonement affects worlds without number and will save all of God’s children except sons of perdition (see Alma 34:9–10, 12; D&C 76:22–24, 40–43).

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From this [Moses 1:30–33, 35, 38–39] and other scriptures we learn that, representing the Father and serving his purpose ‘to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man,’ Jesus Christ, in the sense of being its Creator and Redeemer, is the Lord of the whole universe. Except for his mortal ministry accomplished on this earth, his service and relationship to other worlds and their inhabitants are the same as his service and relationship to this earth and its inhabitants” (Marion G. Romney, “Jesus Christ, Lord of the Universe,” Improvement Era, Nov. 1968, 46).

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Now our Lord’s jurisdiction and power extend far beyond the limits of this one small earth on which we dwell. He is, under the Father, the Creator of worlds without number. (Moses 1:33.) And through the power of his atonement the inhabitants of these worlds, the revelation says, ‘are begotten sons and daughters unto God’ (D. & C. 76:24), which means that the atonement of Christ, being literally and truly infinite, applies to an infinite number of earths.

 

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“In addition to the plain meaning of this passage, we have an explanation of it given by the Prophet Joseph Smith. He paraphrased, in poetical rhyme, the entire record of the Vision, and his words covering this portion were:

‘I beheld round the throne holy angels and hosts,

 And sanctified beings from worlds that have been,

In holiness worshipping God and the Lamb,

 For ever and ever. Amen and amen.

• • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • •

‘And I heard a great voice bearing record from heav’n,

 He’s the Saviour and Only Begotten of God;

By him, of him, and through him, the worlds were all made,

 Even all that careen in the heavens so broad.

‘Whose inhabitants, too, from the first to the last,

 Are sav’d by the very same Saviour of ours;

And, of course, are begotten God’s daughters and sons

 By the very same truths and the very same powers.’

(Millennial Star, vol. 4, pp. 49–55.)” (McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, 65–66).

 

Now allow the Spirit to teach you what is true. These statements appear to answer your question pretty clearly.

@Trevor, as pertaining to your second question, "2) Jesus Christ only had a mortal ministry on this earth. "

Christ only had one mortal ministry. When the body is resurrected it is eternally inseparable. There is no, "Let me remove my glorified immortal body, take flesh again, and then resurrect again." The Atonement of Jesus Christ was infinite, it doesn't need to happen over and over again. We live mortally once. Our bodies move from corruption to incorruption once.

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"After resurrection, the spirit will never again be separated from the body because the Savior’s Resurrection brought total victory over death. In order to obtain our eternal destiny, we need to have this immortal soul—a spirit and body—united forever. With spirit and immortal body inseparably connected, we can “receive a fulness of joy.”7 In fact, without the Resurrection we could never receive a fulness of joy but would be miserable forever.8 Even faithful, righteous people view the separation of their bodies from their spirits as captivity. We are released from this captivity through the Resurrection, which is redemption from the bands or chains of death.9 There is no salvation without both our spirit and our body." (Source)

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Every person is literally a son or a daughter of God, having been born as a spirit to Heavenly Parents before being born to mortal parents on the earth (Heb. 12:9). Each person on earth has an immortal spirit body in addition to a body of flesh and bone. As sometimes defined in scripture, the spirit and the physical body together constitute the soul (Gen. 2:7; D&C 88:15; Moses 3:7, 9, 19; Abr. 5:7). A spirit can live without a physical body, but the physical body cannot live without the spirit (James 2:26). Physical death is the separation of the spirit from the body. In the Resurrection, the spirit is reunited with the same physical body of flesh and bone it possessed as a mortal, with two major differences: they will never be separated again, and the physical body will be immortal and perfected (Alma 11:45; D&C 138:16–17). (Source)

 

 

 

 

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17 hours ago, clbent04 said:

Unfortunately, no answer. This is probably my biggest hang up with Mormon theology. I just don’t get it. 

This question bothered me even thinking about it last week. I found some consolation knowing how infinitely powerful Jesus Christ was while here in his mortal existence. He healed a man on Earth from afar saying to the Centurion that brought message of his sick servant that the man would be healed according to the Centurion’s faith (Luke 7:1-10). I have never seen such great faith Jesus said as he was able to remotely cure the man. So why would physical proximity have anything to do with the Savior’s reach when we have this example?

I don’t want to go down this rabbit hole anymore since it’s just negative for my simple understanding, but who’s to say we didn’t luck out with being THE ONE AND ONLY world where Jesus Christ spent his mortal existence? Seems very far fetched to me. But I just have to accept it. To me it makes the most sense to just accept it even though I don’t understand it. I have to accept I don’t know all the mysteries of God because I could never deny the truths of the gospel I DO KNOW.

I think that even though Christ only had a mortal experience on this Earth, surely He would have made meaningful visitations on all other Earths. I just better stop writing now cause like I said, this is a rough one for me too. For every assumption I make, I end up countering myself with additional doubts I didn’t have before. Just accept this one, brother. Cling to what you do know is true, and let the Lord fill in the rest over time.

Well, there is old idea that where he went was the only place at the time wicked enough to kill their own deity.  Or, at least those in our world would be the only ones that would get wicked enough to kill their own deity.

We do know he went to visit the Nephites, so it is possible that after he was here he went to visit many other peoples and locations to teach his gospel and establish his church.

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Brigham Young believed that each world had it's own Savior:

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Let me open the eyes of your understanding. There has never been a time when the creations of worlds commenced. They are from eternity to eternity in their creations and redemption. After they are organized they experience the good and the evil, the light and the dark, the bitter and the sweet as you and I do. There never was a time when there were not worlds in existence as this world is, and they pass through similar changes in abiding their creation preparatory to exaltation. Worlds have always been in progress, and eternally will be.

Every world has had an Adam and an Eve, named so simply because the first man is always called Adam and the first woman, Eve. And the oldest son has always had the privilege of being ordained, appointed and called to be the heir of the family if he does not rebel against the Father, and he is the Savior of the family. Every world that has been created has been created upon the same principle. They may vary in their varieties, yet the eternity is one: it is one eternal round. (GC Oct 8, 1954)

I personally believe that each Savior is also the creator of the world he is to save. After he has finished his work he will become a God and will have sons who will become Savior's of yet other worlds. This is how the worlds are exaulted.

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6 hours ago, james12 said:

Brigham Young believed that each world had it's own Savior:

I personally believe that each Savior is also the creator of the world he is to save. After he has finished his work he will become a God and will have sons who will become Savior's of yet other worlds. This is how the worlds are exaulted.

I used to think that way. A matter of opinion. Its a nice cookie cutter way of doing things, nothing wrong with that pattern. That said, I was turned on to the idea that we are part of something on a much grander stage where this "war in heaven" involved many many worlds and the forefront of that battle ended up here on this earth and will end here on this earth. 

 

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1 hour ago, Rob Osborn said:

I used to think that way. A matter of opinion. Its a nice cookie cutter way of doing things, nothing wrong with that pattern. That said, I was turned on to the idea that we are part of something on a much grander stage where this "war in heaven" involved many many worlds and the forefront of that battle ended up here on this earth and will end here on this earth. 

It's an interesting idea and the war in heaven very well could be a glimpse of what is a much larger "war" for the souls of men across worlds. In fact, I'll think on that.  

But I am skeptical about the idea that the war in heaven will end here. This idea appears to partake of some of the same earth centric philosophy related to the Savior of the universe being born on this earth because it is the most wicked/righteous.

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18 minutes ago, james12 said:

It's an interesting idea and the war in heaven very well could be a glimpse of what is a much larger "war" for the souls of men across worlds. In fact, I'll think on that.  

But I am skeptical about the idea that the war in heaven will end here. This idea appears to partake of some of the same earth centric philosophy related to the Savior of the universe being born on this earth because it is the most wicked/righteous.

The scriptures do say a few hints. One is that the greatest wickedness was had on this earth amongst all Gods creations in the entire universe. The other is that Christ speaks of this earth as the last kingdom, or earth in a series of visitations.

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On 8/6/2017 at 6:36 PM, clbent04 said:

Was universe even a word in the dictionary at the time Joseph Smith received the relevelation? 

In the 1828 Webster's Dictionary, the word "universe" was defined as: "The collective name of heaven and earth, and all that belongs to them; the whole system of created things."

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

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On ‎8‎/‎5‎/‎2017 at 11:17 PM, Vort said:

You're missing my point. When we take the teachings of the gospel of Jesus Christ and start pointing to this star or that planet and identifying such celestial bodies with various aspects of the gospel, we have moved way beyond the gospel. We are treading on thin ice, or more likely, treading water. The gospel says nothing about a "universe"; that is a modern concept in physics, like "atom" or "Higgs boson" or "Gibbs free energy" or "quantum chromodynamics". Such mechanistic ideas are generally not part of the gospel.

Preaching the gospel using such terms is problematic and very often counterproductive. For example, the word "power" has a specific definition in physics: Energy per unit time. To my knowledge, there is no other valid meaning in physics for the word "power". When we say we have "Priesthood power", do we therefore mean that we have some capacity to use Priesthood energy over some unit of time? No, of course not. Gospel words mean what they mean, not what we attach to them. We gain a general idea of their meaning based on etymology and usage, but the actual meaning of gospel terms is revealed by the Spirit, and in no other way.

So talking about the gospel in terms of "the universe" (or worse yet, "the multiverse") seems to be to go well beyond what the gospel is intended to convey. The gospel tells us about this world and our place in it, and what God expects of us. It tells us pretty much nothing about any other worlds or peoples. I think it's wise to avoid useless speculation along those lines.

Yours is an uncommon bias that I have never encountered before.  We have noted your aversion to things you class as mechanistic and this oft repeated diatribe that such does not compose the gospel.  I attempted a response in another thread to which you would not reply concerning obvious mechanistic principles such as those discussed in Doctrine and Covenants 19. What is interesting is this wholly unique to you concept is completely untenable if one drops their bias and simply examines the words of the Prophets.

You are lucky today as I have decided to bless your life with some quotes of various apostles and prophets where they speak to this very subject that you consider "unwise speculation" concerning the intertwining of Gospel concepts with ideologies that you might call mechanistic relative to how the universe is a part of Gospel ideology.

These are not low-brow street urchins but the list is comprised of Joseph Smith, Bruce R. McConkie, Brigham Young, John Taylor, Orson Pratt and Neil A. Maxwell.

 

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And how shall I write to your understanding even the little I may have retained in memory? You will not forget that the march in science through the last seventy years has in many things reversed the world's thought, changed its modes and almost its face, and is fast exploding the dogmas of outside theology. Well, the keys to all this knowledge were first committed to the Prophet Joseph, as a part of the gospel, for the world's benefit, for all of which he was derided. He was the first in this age to teach "substantialism", the eternity of matter, that no part or particle of the great universe could become annihilated or destroyed; that light and life and spirit were one; that all light and heat are the "Glory of God", which is his power, that fills the "immensity of space", and is the life of all things, and permeates with latent life, and heat, every particle of which all worlds are composed; that light or spirit, and matter, are the two first great primary principles of the universe, or of Being; that they are self-existent, co-existent, indestructible, and eternal, and from these two elements both our spirits and our bodies were formulated, and he gave us to understand that there were twelve kingdoms, or planets, revolving around our solar system, to which the Lord gave an equal division of His time or ministry and that now was His time to again visit the earth. He taught that all systems of worlds were in revolution, the lesser around the greater. He taught that all the animal kingdoms would be resurrected, and made us understand that they would remain in the dominion of those who, with creative power, reach out for dominion, through the power of eternal lives. He taught us that the saints would fill the great West, and through Mexico, Central and South America we would do a great work for the redemption of the remnant of Jacob. Of what he taught us relating to the Kingdom of God, as it would become organized upon the earth through "all nations learning war no more", and all adopting the God-given constitution of the United States as a Palladium of Liberty and Equal Rights. (Johnson, Benjamin F. Letter to George F. Gibbs, 1903)

This quote is obviously in reference to D and C 88 in certain parts but adds some interesting insights that Joseph provided for clarification.  Additionally he references other mechanistic thoughts from the Doctrine and Covenants, such as the indestructibility of matter, that all light AND heat emanate from God.

 

 

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'Their Father's name,' bless me! That is GOD! Well done for Mormonism; one hundred and forty four thousand GODS, among the tribes of Israel, and, two living Gods and the Holy Ghost, for this world! Such knowledge is too wonderful for men, unless they possess the spirit of Gods. It unravels the little mysteries, which like a fog, hides the serene atmosphere of heaven, and looks from world to world; from system to system; from universe to universe; and from eternity to eternity, where, in each, and all, there is a presidency of Gods, and Gods many, and Lords many; and from time to time, or from eternity to eternity, Jesus Christ shall bring in another world regulated and saved as this will be when he delivers it up to the Father; and God becomes all all. 'And,' as John the Revelator said (xxii: 3, 4.)"there shall be no more curse: but the throne of

God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him. And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.'

HIS name in their foreheads', undoubtedly means 'God' on the front of their crowns; for, when all things are created new, in the celestial kingdom, the servants of God, the innumerable multitude, are crowned, and, are perfect men and women in the Lord, one in glory, one in knowledge, and one in image: they are like Christ, and he is like God: then, O, then, they are all 'Living Gods,' having passed from Death unto Life, and possess the power of eternal lives: (John Taylor, Times and Seasons 6:809. The Living God,” emphasis added; quoted in Taylor 76)

 

 

Interestingly we have references from President John Taylor, that the universe is actually managed, as would be expected, by and through the efforts of priesthood presidencies.   While speaking of the Holy Ghost he defines His role as one of the Presidency of the universe for his particular talents:

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It is the work and mission and ministry of the Holy Spirit of God to sanctify the souls of men. This is his assigned labor in the Eternal Godhead. How he does it we do not know, except that it is a work that can only be performed by a spirit being, and hence the need for one of his personality, status, and standing in the Supreme Presidency of the universe. (McConkie, Bruce R., A New Witness for the Articles of Faith, pp. 265-266)

 

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I will not say the precise time of the beginning; for God prior to this time, had given revelation to this youth, on many occasions. The first one that he gave to him was in the spring of 1820, before Joseph Smith was of the age of fifteen. Then a wonderful revelation was given to him, the first one he ever received. In a great and glorious open vision, in answer to his prayers, there was the manifestation of two of the great personages in the heavens—not angels, not messengers, but two persons that hold the keys of authority over all the creations of the universe. Who were they? God the Eternal Father and his Son Jesus Christ, through whom God the Father made the worlds! (Pratt, OrsonJournal of Discourses, 26 vols. [London: Latter-day Saints' Book Depot, 1854-1886], 21: 310 - 311.)

Again, another priesthood reference and a clear and concise references that there are keys of authority and God and Christ hold them all.  However, we are getting a picture here that these keys, like all priesthood keys can be distributed to others.

 

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As the literal Son of God -- the Firstborn in the spirit, the Only Begotten in the flesh -- Christ is the natural heir of his Father. It thus became his right to inherit, receive, and possess all that his Father had. (John 16:15.) And his Father is possessor of all things: the universe; all power, wisdom, and goodness; the fulness of truth and knowledge; and an infinity of all good attributes. By heirship and by obedience, going from grace to grace, the Son attained these same things. (D. & C. 93:5-17.)(McConkie, Bruce R., Doctrinal New Testament Commentary, 3 vols. [Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1965-1973], 2:

 

 

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“When the prophets speak of an infinite atonement, they mean just that. Its effects cover all men, the earth itself and all forms of life thereon, and reach out into the endless expanses of eternity. . . . the atonement of Christ, being literally and truly infinite, applies to an infinite number of earths” (McConkie, Bruce R. Mormon Doctrine 64–65).

 

And here Elder McConkie ends the age old question of how far reaching the atonement actually is.

 

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Evidence for this linkage of prophets and dispensations is not abundantly present in the Bible, because some of the "plain and precious things" were "kept back" or "taken away" from what became that book (1 Nephi 13:34, 39, 40). Part of the flood of light that accompanied the Restoration was the return of these lost truths. Naturally, many of them concern the central figure in the life of mankind. In Restoration scriptures, in fact, Jesus Christ is clearly and definitively revealed to be the Lord of the universe, the creator of myriad worlds, a fact that is sparsely noted in the Bible (only three verses; John 1:3; Hebrews 1:2; 11:3):By him, and through him, and of him, the worlds are and were created, and the inhabitants thereof are begotten sons and daughters unto God (D&C 76:24).And worlds without number have I created; and I also created them for mine own purpose; and by the Son I created them, which is mine Only Begotten (Moses 1:33).The worlds were made by him; men were made by him; all things were made by him, and through him, and of him (D&C 93:10).(Neal A. Maxwell, A Wonderful Flood of Light [Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1990], 25.)

Finally Elder Maxwell comments as to the incomplete nature of Biblical resources but comments to how the restoration has at it's core a renewal of information specifically about Christ and his role as the Lord of the universe.

Anyway, I hope you find these expanding and helpful.

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  • 5 years later...

Welcome, @Lucasanen!

10 hours ago, Lucasanen said:

My opinion / belief is that our Elder Brother Jesus Christ IS the Savior and Redeemer of ALL of His Father's creations.  HE is the First-born; HE is the Creator; HE is the Savior and Redeemer of ALL His creations.  I do not care that Brigham Young or others share a different opinion.  It just FEELS right to me.  Then again...............I am nobody.

IMO, the scriptures cited in this thread support your position.  And I'm not sure Brigham Young did have a different opinion - it seems to me that James was reading too much into the quote he cited:

On 1/28/2018 at 6:18 AM, james12 said:

Brigham Young believed that each world had it's own Savior:

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Let me open the eyes of your understanding. There has never been a time when the creations of worlds commenced. They are from eternity to eternity in their creations and redemption. After they are organized they experience the good and the evil, the light and the dark, the bitter and the sweet as you and I do. There never was a time when there were not worlds in existence as this world is, and they pass through similar changes in abiding their creation preparatory to exaltation. Worlds have always been in progress, and eternally will be.

Every world has had an Adam and an Eve, named so simply because the first man is always called Adam and the first woman, Eve. And the oldest son has always had the privilege of being ordained, appointed and called to be the heir of the family if he does not rebel against the Father, and he is the Savior of the family. Every world that has been created has been created upon the same principle. They may vary in their varieties, yet the eternity is one: it is one eternal round. (GC Oct 8, 1954)

I personally believe that each Savior is also the creator of the world he is to save. After he has finished his work he will become a God and will have sons who will become Savior's of yet other worlds. This is how the worlds are exaulted.

First, we need to keep in mind that Brigham Young isn't limiting his text to God the Father, Elohim.  The idea that God was once as we are suggests that he too has an Eternal Father, and had a world to live on that was created by someone, etc. back through generations in eternity.  So, just because eternity may be full of worlds and creators of worlds that doesn't dictate that each individual world had one Savior, nor that each individual Savior saved exactly and only one world.

Second, in the wording of the second paragraph, every world gets an Adam and an Eve, but it's every Father who gets a first son who has the privilege of being a Savior (not of the world, but of the family).  That every world was created on these principles, doesn't dictate a 1-to-1 ratio of worlds and Saviors.  God the Father has only one first son - Jesus Christ - but many worlds (per scripture).  I'll note that scripture doesn't actually say that sentient beings in the image of God dwell on any world other than this one (as far as I know), only that God created them for a purpose and that he's keeping that purpose to himself. But scripture does say that Christ redeems all the things he creates, so he will redeem those worlds and whatever may be on them.

FWIW.

ETA: Don't know if Brigham Young was more explicit elsewhere, but from the passage James quoted, I'm not seeing the 1:1 ratio.

Edited by zil2
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