What happens if you do not get an answer

[Jane_Doe]

11 minutes ago, Gomezaddams51 said:

I learned from childhood not to depend on god and so yes, I do the best I can on my own.  I do pray, more because it was brainwashed into me to do so, but also on the off chance that someday, somehow it will work.  Till then I plan on continuing to stand on my own with no expected help from anyone, above or below.

Pardon my bluntness you shouldn't pray because you were "brainwashed" or because you want something.  That's how you should treat a vending machine, not an actual relationship.

I'm glad you're phyiscally supporting your wife.  If you're happy being where you are spiritually, that's that.  But own things yourself there too.    If you want to stay, then stay.  If you want to be closer and/or support your wife spiritually then you got to stop treating deity like a vending machine.  

Edited May 5, 2020 by Jane_Doe

[Guest Gomezaddams51]

8 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

Pardon my bluntness you shouldn't pray because you were "brainwashed" or because you want something.  That's how you should treat a vending machine, not an actual relationship.

I'm glad you're physically supporting your wife.  If you're happy being where you are spiritually, that's that.  But own things yourself there too.    If you want to stay, then stay.  If you want to be closer and/or support your wife spiritually then you got to stop treating deity like a vending machine.  

I support my wife because she is legally blind and up until she joined the church she had few friends.  I am glad she found people who will help her when I kick the bucket.  Neither of us really fit in with the LDS congregation, we both have tattoos, I have long hair, a beard, and a wallet on a chain (In other words a biker) and do not own a suit or white shirt and have no plans on buying them.  We got some weird looks when we started going, but finally after a couple of years the members have tolerated us now.   As for the "brainwashed" thing, in many cases people return to what they were taught and raised in because it is familiar.  They may not totally agree with it but it is something they know and it is better than the unknown...  The reason man created gods was that once they had done everything they could, they looked to a higher power to do what they could not do or had no power to do.

[Guest MormonGator]

7 minutes ago, Gomezaddams51 said:

Neither of us really fit in with the LDS congregation, we both have tattoos, I have long hair, a beard, and a wallet on a chain (In other words a biker) and do not own a suit or white shirt and have no plans on buying them. 

You and I will get along fine. I also have long hair, tattoos, a wallet chain, I hate white shirts and I refuse to wear a tie unless I'm at gunpoint. 

And I also listen to metal 24/7, love horror movies and video games. We need more people like you in the church my friend. The love of Christ is open to everyone! 

Edited May 5, 2020 by MormonGator

[Jane_Doe]

6 minutes ago, Gomezaddams51 said:

I support my wife because she is legally blind and up until she joined the church she had few friends.  I am glad she found people who will help her when I kick the bucket.  Neither of us really fit in with the LDS congregation, we both have tattoos, I have long hair, a beard, and a wallet on a chain (In other words a biker) and do not own a suit or white shirt and have no plans on buying them.  We got some weird looks when we started going, but finally after a couple of years the members have tolerated us now.   As for the "brainwashed" thing, in many cases people return to what they were taught and raised in because it is familiar.  They may not totally agree with it but it is something they know and it is better than the unknown...  The reason man created gods was that once they had done everything they could, they looked to a higher power to do what they could not do or had no power to do.

Honestly, I really could care less what you or her wear.  I have nothing against men with long hair + beards + no suit.  In fact my husband fits that description sometimes  .   I was more focusing on the spiritual side of thing.  

[Guest MormonGator]

3 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

 I really could care less what you or her wear.  I have nothing against men with long hair + beards + no suit.

@Gomezaddams51-listen to what my friend @Jane_Doe said. More and more members are just happy to see you and don't care what you wear/how you look. Sure, in some of the older wards you will be looked at/treated differently but it's sort of dying out. More and more people just want to share His love with you-what you look like is irrelevant. 

[Guest Gomezaddams51]

31 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

Honestly, I really could care less what you or her wear.  I have nothing against men with long hair + beards + no suit.  In fact my husband fits that description sometimes  .   I was more focusing on the spiritual side of thing.  

For a long time I had nothing to do with anything spiritual.  the older I get I have found that I have become more spiritual.  But my spirituality is not exactly the same as the church's.  A few years back I went on a "pilgrimage" and tried various other religions, even the pagan ones.  I found a form of spirituality that suits me, more naturist than religious.  But as my dad used to say, "I am getting older so it is time to start cramming for my finals."

[Traveler]

53 minutes ago, Gomezaddams51 said:

I learned from childhood not to depend on god and so yes, I do the best I can on my own.  I do pray, more because it was brainwashed into me to do so, but also on the off chance that someday, somehow it will work.  Till then I plan on continuing to stand on my own with no expected help from anyone, above or below.

I thought about relating some of several experiences while serving in the army during Vietnam, some events on my mission and some personal things during my marriage and attending to my family.  But I can see that such would not relate.  But here are a couple of thoughts.  I have prayed about something that was not answered for over 20 years because I was not listening.  In general it is good to ask but it is worthless to ask if one is not listening.  Jesus taught that many have ears but do not hear.  

I believe that there are prayers that do not work - for example lazy prayers - where one prays for things they can do but are too lazy to sacrifice - so that try to get G-d to do it for them - like tell them the answers to a test.  My experience is that lazy prayers do not work.  For example if one prays for wisdom and understanding they will have difficult experiences for THEM to solve - thus learning wisdom and understanding.

Another kind of fruitless prayers are what I call blame prayers.  They are usually prayers asking G-d what should be done.  Not so much to know what to do as to have G-d to blame if it does not work out.  I hear this a lot - when someone says they were praying, attending the temple, church on Sunday and so on and so on and their marriage fell apart and their spouse left them - but that had prayed when they were dating and G-d told them to marry that person.  So it must be G-d's fault that their marriage failed.

And so I will give one more example with a story of when I was helping my daughter with her math homework.  I was teaching her step by step how to understand her problem, work through the logic and obtain the answer.  In frustration she became angry and said she did not what to know how to do the problem - all she wanted was the answer.  At the time I was not able to convince her that the correct answer is working through the logic she was taught - the correct answer was not the number the teacher would check to see if it was correct.

But like I said - all your prayers have been answered.  Either by you learning to get it done - or learning that if you do not work to you ability - it will not happen.  

 

The Traveler

[Guest Gomezaddams51]

46 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

@Gomezaddams51-listen to what my friend @Jane_Doe said. More and more members are just happy to see you and don't care what you wear/how you look. Sure, in some of the older wards you will be looked at/treated differently but it's sort of dying out. More and more people just want to share His love with you-what you look like is irrelevant. 

I remember back in the very late 80's, the Missionaries tracked me down and convinced me to go to church, I rode up on my Harley in full leathers, black jeans and a black t-shirt with a biker logo on it and walked in and I could see the looks on peoples faces.  It was all I could do to keep from rolling on the floor laughing.  What was even funnier was the younger boys who looked at me like I was Santa Claus.  Quite a few mothers turned some young heads away from me.  I loved it.  I went a couple of more times but it just wasn't for me...

[askandanswer]

1 hour ago, Gomezaddams51 said:

I learned from childhood not to depend on god and so yes, I do the best I can on my own.  I do pray, more because it was brainwashed into me to do so, but also on the off chance that someday, somehow it will work.  Till then I plan on continuing to stand on my own with no expected help from anyone, above or below.

I suspect that this might be part of the reason why it appears that your prayers have not been answered in the way that you would like or a way that you can see. At a minimum, to have any sort of impact, we need to pray with faith. 

[Guest MormonGator]

8 minutes ago, Gomezaddams51 said:

I remember back in the very late 80's, the Missionaries tracked me down and convinced me to go to church, I rode up on my Harley in full leathers, black jeans and a black t-shirt with a biker logo on it and walked in and I could see the looks on peoples faces.  It was all I could do to keep from rolling on the floor laughing.  What was even funnier was the younger boys who looked at me like I was Santa Claus.  Quite a few mothers turned some young heads away from me.  I loved it.  I went a couple of more times but it just wasn't for me...

That's awesome. I've been there too, though I don't ride a bike. 

That said, it's not 1980 anymore. Like I mentioned in the other post, the percentage of LDS who will say anything to you or look at you funny is rapidly shrinking. Will there always be members like that? Of course. But there will always be people like that in the secular world too. 

[Grunt]

2 hours ago, Jane_Doe said:

Honestly, I really could care less what you or her wear.  I have nothing against men with long hair + beards + no suit.  In fact my husband fits that description sometimes  .   I was more focusing on the spiritual side of thing.  

I am of that mindset, but with a caveat.  There are some things the people Heavenly Father chose to lead us share with us.  I think it behooves us to listen to what they share.  I may not understand it, but it makes sense to listen. When people don't, I wonder why.  It seems some people choose the God of not fitting in over Heavenly Father.

[askandanswer]

5 hours ago, Gomezaddams51 said:

I remember back in the very late 80's, the Missionaries tracked me down and convinced me to go to church, I rode up on my Harley in full leathers, black jeans and a black t-shirt with a biker logo on it and walked in and I could see the looks on peoples faces.  It was all I could do to keep from rolling on the floor laughing.  What was even funnier was the younger boys who looked at me like I was Santa Claus.  Quite a few mothers turned some young heads away from me.  I loved it.  I went a couple of more times but it just wasn't for me...

There's a small group of men in my ward who go out on occasional bike rides together, including the Bishop and the Elder's Quorum President, who is also a police detective. I'm not sure what all of them wear, but I know that some of them wear black leathers, simply because leather is the safest thing to wear while on a bike and black is the cheapest colour.

Edited May 6, 2020 by askandanswer

[priesthoodpower]

On ‎8‎/‎5‎/‎2017 at 7:23 PM, Gomezaddams51 said:

I was pretty much raised in the church...  What do you do IF you feel nothing?

Read the Book of Mormon from cover to cover, one chapter a day, nothing more, nothing less. I promise you, you will be a different person by the time you get to the end. Better yet, read it aloud with your wife since she is blind.

The last time I read it from cover to cover was...well, never, and Im a lifelong 44yr old member. I started this past January, missed a few days here and there. I have the worst reading comprehension and ADHD so half the time my eyes are reading the words but my mind is somewhere else, I cant even recall what I read the next day other then the lamanites and nephites and zoramites and whoever else-amites….Just have faith that you are holding a special book in your hands, open the book and the spirit will work with you, even if somedays (or most days in my case) you feel like you are just going through the motions, that's okay God sees you putting forth effort and he will eventually let you know that you are not just holding a special book but you are holding the actual words of Gods people who existed 2,000+ yrs ago.

I am in the middle of the book and have had 3 spiritual answers come to me that I wasn't expecting because God saw me trying so he blessed me. 

For example. When I first started reading the book my mind kept thinking..."man, Joseph Smith has a crazy imagination to be writing these storys....man, Jospesh Smith repeats a lot of the same words in each verse...man, science today cannot prove nor disprove this book so Joseph must have done something right". It wasn't till this week as I got into the book of Alma that Joseph Smith has taken a back seat, God opened my mind and has given me the perspective of Mormon, the Prophet who transcribed the actual plates 1,800 ish yrs ago?. I feel as if Mormon is talking to me directly through the spirit. So if this is Gods way of telling me that Mormon compiled these storys from ancient plates, well then, Joseph must have really had the plates, and Joseph must have really restored the true church and the LDS church is true. I wasn't even seeking for that answer but it came and its probably what I really need to know at this point in time of my life.

You are already blessed Gomezaddams51, by coming to this forum and seeking advice, God sees you putting forth effort and will reward you.

Edited May 6, 2020 by priesthoodpower

[anatess2]

16 hours ago, Gomezaddams51 said:

I remember back in the very late 80's, the Missionaries tracked me down and convinced me to go to church, I rode up on my Harley in full leathers, black jeans and a black t-shirt with a biker logo on it and walked in and I could see the looks on peoples faces.  It was all I could do to keep from rolling on the floor laughing.  What was even funnier was the younger boys who looked at me like I was Santa Claus.  Quite a few mothers turned some young heads away from me.  I loved it.  I went a couple of more times but it just wasn't for me...

Are you in Utah?

I hope you're not making your "look" an excuse for being spiritually uncommitted just like you're using your mother.  As you've repeatedly said - you're too old for that.

Because... we here in Florida are not that stuck up on how you look.  Our Elders Quorum President is a Harley guy who, until his only child got born, lived with his wife on the back of his truck towing his bikes, following the "circuit", selling biker shirts.  He got tattoo sleeves on both arms and a nice thick beard, not quite as long as Duck Dynasty's because he's a "primper" and like to have his beard very well maintained.  His primping personality is not a white-shirt kinda guy but he loves to wear his suits which sometimes consists of a violet shirt and red jacket with a black bolo tie.  He does put on his white shirt if he gives a talk or passes sacrament.  His wife decided to join the Church but our bishop wouldn't baptize her if they're living together without being married.  So, they got married at the bishop's office and she got baptized.

We have military people in our ward who sometimes come into sacrament in their military outfits.

We also have several medical professionals who sometimes come into sacrament wearing scrubs.

But yeah, everybody strives to do their best and wear their best clothes and be presentable to the Lord in their own meaningful way without causing unnecessary distraction.  Like our biker EQ President never wears short sleeves at the ward building.  He has since become an owner of a thriving business and he doesn't wear short sleeves at his office either.  We get to see his tattoos on display when we do things like Hurricane Aid efforts where we go to people's houses and help them fix hurricane damage.

Edited May 6, 2020 by anatess2

[JohnsonJones]

19 hours ago, MormonGator said:

You and I will get along fine. I also have long hair, tattoos, a wallet chain, I hate white shirts and I refuse to wear a tie unless I'm at gunpoint. 

And I also listen to metal 24/7, love horror movies and video games. We need more people like you in the church my friend. The love of Christ is open to everyone! 

I learned today that currently wallet chains are seen as a biker accessory.

It used to be people had wallet chains (For wallets or keys) to keep them secure.  You'd see them worn by janitors, building supervisors...and university professors who had too many students try to take off with their ID and such.

I'm too old I think...times and styles change (which in turn...make me feel old).

[Guest MormonGator]

1 hour ago, JohnsonJones said:

I learned today that currently wallet chains are seen as a biker accessory.

It used to be people had wallet chains (For wallets or keys) to keep them secure.  You'd see them worn by janitors, building supervisors...and university professors who had too many students try to take off with their ID and such.

I'm too old I think...times and styles change (which in turn...make me feel old).

I wish it was a trend that came back. I loved wearing mine. I still wear one very rarely, just because it screams "late 90's nu-metal" 

[Vort]

3 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

I still wear one very rarely, just because it screams "late 90's nu-metal"

Whereas you're more of a glam metal guy. Makes sense.

[Guest MormonGator]

4 minutes ago, Vort said:

Whereas you're more of a glam metal guy. Makes sense.

Thrash metal, actually. 

[dprh]

1 hour ago, MormonGator said:

I wish it was a trend that came back. I loved wearing mine. I still wear one very rarely, just because it screams "late 90's nu-metal" 

nu-metal never can seem to fit in with old metal.

(insert image of monopoly man wearing KISS make-up)

Edited May 6, 2020 by dprh

[Guest Gomezaddams51]

23 hours ago, MormonGator said:

That's awesome. I've been there too, though I don't ride a bike. 

That said, it's not 1980 anymore. Like I mentioned in the other post, the percentage of LDS who will say anything to you or look at you funny is rapidly shrinking. Will there always be members like that? Of course. But there will always be people like that in the secular world too. 

Somewhere my post disappeared....  Before I visited that Ward I used to get cards and letters 3 or 4 times a year trying to get me out to church.  After my couple of visits, I no longer got a letter or card or anything.  I lived in the same place for 2 more years.  I thought that was rather funny...

[Guest MormonGator]

3 minutes ago, Gomezaddams51 said:

Somewhere my post disappeared....  Before I visited that Ward I used to get cards and letters 3 or 4 times a year trying to get me out to church.  After my couple of visits, I no longer got a letter or card or anything.  I lived in the same place for 2 more years.  I thought that was rather funny...

In fairness, the members don't want to pester you. If you don't respond to them or don't show up, you can't blame them. Now, having said that, I feel really sorry for people who did show up or do show up and get/got nothing from the ward in terms of relationships or communication. 

[Guest Gomezaddams51]

5 hours ago, JohnsonJones said:

I learned today that currently wallet chains are seen as a biker accessory.

It used to be people had wallet chains (For wallets or keys) to keep them secure.  You'd see them worn by janitors, building supervisors...and university professors who had too many students try to take off with their ID and such.

I'm too old I think...times and styles change (which in turn...make me feel old).

Never to old...  Back when I was 42 I got involved with a 19 year old Bi  Witch and she got me into all sorts of alternative music (You haven't lived till you have gone to a gay club Halloween Party)...  I couldn't keep up with her so we split but I stayed with the music.  Now I am into Folk Metal, Viking Metal and lots of Russian music, love Imperial Age and Arkona (Saw them in concert here).  Also LORDI is awesome.  I had a heck of a time trying to date women after my divorce and witch days.  All the women close to my age were into country or stuck in the 60's.  I have gotten my 2nd wife sort of into a little of my music, Voltaire, LORDI and 69 Eyes.  And I did get her to go to a Goth Club a couple of times..  Not the perfect situation but what's a guy gonna do.

[Guest Gomezaddams51]

7 hours ago, anatess2 said:

Are you in Utah?

I hope you're not making your "look" an excuse for being spiritually uncommitted just like you're using your mother.  As you've repeatedly said - you're too old for that.

Because... we here in Florida are not that stuck up on how you look.  Our Elders Quorum President is a Harley guy who, until his only child got born, lived with his wife on the back of his truck towing his bikes, following the "circuit", selling biker shirts.  He got tattoo sleeves on both arms and a nice thick beard, not quite as long as Duck Dynasty's because he's a "primper" and like to have his beard very well maintained.  His primping personality is not a white-shirt kinda guy but he loves to wear his suits which sometimes consists of a violet shirt and red jacket with a black bolo tie.  He does put on his white shirt if he gives a talk or passes sacrament.  His wife decided to join the Church but our bishop wouldn't baptize her if they're living together without being married.  So, they got married at the bishop's office and she got baptized.

We have military people in our ward who sometimes come into sacrament in their military outfits.

We also have several medical professionals who sometimes come into sacrament wearing scrubs.

But yeah, everybody strives to do their best and wear their best clothes and be presentable to the Lord in their own meaningful way without causing unnecessary distraction.  Like our biker EQ President never wears short sleeves at the ward building.  He has since become an owner of a thriving business and he doesn't wear short sleeves at his office either.  We get to see his tattoos on display when we do things like Hurricane Aid efforts where we go to people's houses and help them fix hurricane damage.

No not in Utah, more like "Utah Light" Lost wages Nevada.  Where I got the looks about my biker clothes was back in Ohio.  Here other than a few curious looks we seem to  be generally accepted.  I know I ain't gonna change for them, I plan on being myself.  LOL I did wear a Kilt a couple of Sundays..that was fun... Got asked if I was Scottish which I am back a ways.  I have a brother I never knew I had up until 4 years ago that has done our Genealogy and he found out we are related to the Hume (Home) clan.  Supposedly Mary Queen of Scotts used to hang out at their castle.  I have a couple of Hume Tartan ties that I rarely wear with a navy blue or black dress shirt.  

[Serviteur du seigneur]

During the course of my life i have acquired the testimony that, if the story of jesus of nazareth is true, then this church is really the place to be. 

Now, my struggle is to know if his story is really true, if he really existed and the christian God is there.

[Serviteur du seigneur]

But i had experiencies in my childhood that made me be sure that there is evil beings surrounding us and there is more after death, and of that i am certain. But that doesn't make the story of jesus true nor proves the existence of the christian God.

The only thing that got me the closest of finding out if the story of christ is true, was on the ocasion of when i got my patriarchal blessing, i am usually pretty cold, but on that day on a specifical time inside the car in a moment where i wasn't even thinking about church stuff, i began feeling the urge to cry, it felt quite like if my spirit was somehow emotioned with it all. It was indeed not a normal thing, i was not controlling my emotions and for some minutes i didn't even know the reason i was crying.

Edited May 6, 2020 by Serviteur du seigneur