Have you ever wished the church would allow for moderate drinking?


prisonchaplain
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My church (Assemblies of God) just re-affirmed our stance against the consumption of alcohol, adding the prohibition for ministers to our bylaws. At least one individual didn't like it, and went went to social media to post that he supposed Jesus would not be welcomed among us (he turned water to wine and consumed wine at the Last Supper). Of course, by his logic most states (even true-blue Washington) would not allow Jesus to drive donkeys either. :doh:

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Ā 

Have you ever wished the church would allow for moderate drinking? Ā No. Ā In the modern world drinkingĀ is totally unnecessary, expensive, bad for behavior and bad for health. Ā 
The comparison to Jesus time is completely apples and oranges as before modern sanitation drinking was necessary because normal water was inviting disease. Ā 
Ā 
I like the donkey comparison!

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Do I wish the Church allowed for moderate drinking?

Absolutely not.

I have seen moderate drinking lead to alcoholism. Ā Over and over again.

I don't know if you guys have been around alcoholics much. Ā My father was an alcoholic, andĀ he cannot remember half of his adult life. Ā That is what happens when you are drunk a lot - you miss out on what adds up to be months and months of your life. Ā He has admitted he doesn't remember much of when me and my brothers were small children because he was drunk all the time. Ā That's an awful lot of precious memories to just throw away.

This doesn't even get into all of the negative things that come from being drunk or even tipsy (promiscuousness, violent rages, drunk driving, generally acting like an idiot).

And for what? Ā What good can you get out of being drunk? Ā 

We talked about how card games and video games are frowned upon because they are wastes of our precious mortality. Ā Drinking is like that times a million.

No, I am glad we refrain from alcohol and drugs, and I think it should stay that way.

As for alcohol at the time of Jesus, I would question how potent it was. Ā I think it was in the Book of Acts where it was implied you would have to drink their "wine" all day long to get even mildly drunk. Ā That is probably very different than today, where you can get drunk off of one or two glasses of some types of alcohol. Ā Such weak alcohol would 1) perhaps be advisable to drinking dangerous water, and 2) would have a much lower risk of consuming your very life (as you would have to be drinking all the time to get a buzz). Ā I don't know these things - just making a guess based off of what I have read in the Bible (and when thinking about why booze is forbidden today).

Edited by DoctorLemon
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Guest LiterateParakeet

No, no, no. Alcohol has the power to destroy lives and families. And it passes like a Ā plague from one generation to the next. Even if it wasn't prohibited, I wouldn't touch it.Ā 

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2 hours ago, prisonchaplain said:

My church (Assemblies of God) just re-affirmed our stance against the consumption of alcohol, adding the prohibition for ministers to our bylaws. At least one individual didn't like it, and went went to social media to post that he supposed Jesus would not be welcomed among us (he turned water to wine and consumed wine at the Last Supper). ...

If the individual on social media were here with me I would explain that it isn't a question of welcoming a person among us.Ā 

Edited by Mike
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What about this scripture in proverbs?

Proverbs 31: 5-7

"Lest they drink, and forget the law, and pervert the judgment of any of the afflicted.
6 Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts.
7 Let him drink, and forget his poverty, and remember his misery no more."

Maybe God didn't care about drinking alcohol back then? Much like there is no law against pork now, but there was then? God's law of health seems to change and that shouldn't bother us :)

Edited by Fether
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Some people become alcoholics and thus to prevent this all of us must be dry. In addition, fetal alcohol syndrome is a ghastly affliction that is a plague in many countries especially Canada. It is so easy to damage a fetus in this way when one is not aware that you are pregnant. Easily done impossible to fix.

Edited by Sunday21
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Alcohol? Nah. Never on my wish list. In my younger years, if I had been completely honest about the topic, I would've far rather the Church had allowed for moderate fornication. As I get older, I realize with each passing day that God's commandments are there to bring us happiness, and fornication (as well as every other sinful activity, including -- at least for Latter-day Saints -- alcohol consumption) takes us away from happiness.Today, I'm very happy that I have kept my chastity throughout my life, and in that vein, take perhaps a touch of pride in knowing that I have never drunk or even so much as tasted an alcoholic beverage. Not as a matter of an "I'm-better-than-he-is" comparison thing, but just knowing that, despite all my mess-ups from childhood until now, there are at least some things I can take satisfaction in knowing I haven't let touch me.

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21 minutes ago, Vort said:

Alcohol? Nah. Never on my wish list. In my younger years, if I had been completely honest about the topic, I would've far rather the Church had allowed for moderate fornication

Aren't we taught moderation in ALL things? Just kiddin!Ā :P

22 minutes ago, Vort said:

Not as a matter of an "I'm-better-than-he-is" comparison thing, but just knowing that, despite all my mess-ups from childhood until now, there are at least some things I can take satisfaction in knowing I haven't let touch me.

You da man, Vort. Seriously, I wish I could say that with the Law of Chasity. However, like you, I can say I've never had an alcoholic drink in my life, and I think that's made a big difference alone for me in my life

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The discussions about whether moderate drinking is permissible according to the Bible alone are worthy and reasonable in some settings. In North America, me thinks us ministers have simply grown worry of attending too many funerals for family members (our own or those related to church members) who've died of end stage liver disease or alcohol-related accidents. Then there is the endless counseling for family and friends of alcoholics. Then there are those babies--way too many, born of drinking mothers.Ā  The Apostle Paul warned us about not being a stumbling block (literally???), so I think Jesus would join us in our abstinence, today. Further, he'd certainly have stayed under .08 before driving that donkey.

Ā 

Edited by prisonchaplain
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Guest LiterateParakeet
9 hours ago, Vort said:

Ā Not as a matter of an "I'm-better-than-he-is" comparison thing, but just knowing that, despite all my mess-ups from childhood until now, there are at least some things I can take satisfaction in knowing I haven't let touch me.

That's awesome. Ā I would like to be able to say that too (sigh) but I tried beer once (it's nasty - definitely an acquired taste) my step-father gave it to me on a road trip. Ā I was thirsty and my parents forgot to bring something for us kids to drink...they had beer though. Ā Lovely, right? Ā  No wonder I hate alcohol so much....Ā 

Edited by LiterateParakeet
typo
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Once again I'm reminded of the conversation I had with several of my colleagues as we went out for lunch. Ā They were taking a half day and felt it was appropriate to imbibe.

Spurred on by a conversation on Mormonhub, I asked them,"So, how common is it for someone to only drink moderately, like one glass of wine a week?"

"Never." (came all three responses).

"But I just had a conversation with people who said that is all they've ever had. Ā It's got to be somewhat common."

(cross-talk and discussion about possibly someone, somewhere). Ā "I don't know. Ā I've never known anyone like that. Ā Some people say it. Ā But that's because they didn't realize that their "one drink" was actually three or four that night, and they forgot about the couple others they had earlier in the week....No, that person is lying or simply doesn't remember."

I really do question whether anyone really does "drink in moderation."

I had a co-worker who worked for me on a moonlighting job. Ā During the day or over email, he seems fine. Ā But the last two phone conversations he had with me were ones where within the duration of the phone call, he drifted into drunkenness. Ā And he has told me that there was nothing wrong with alcohol as long as it was in moderation. Ā "I really don't drink much."

A non-LDS relative in Germany drinks a liter of wine every night. Ā He considers that "moderate" drinking.

This is the kind of thing that happens once you open the door to "moderate drinking". Ā Apparently, history has proven that we simply aren't very responsible when it comes to drugs.

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4 hours ago, Carborendum said:

...I really do question whether anyone really does "drink in moderation."...

I am a moderate drinker. I can go weeks even months without having alcohol. And if I do, I am fine with one glass of wine or half a glass of beer (usually have beer when it's extremely hot outside, cold beer is very refreshing).

M.

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52 minutes ago, Maureen said:

I am a moderate drinker. I can go weeks even months without having alcohol. And if I do, I am fine with one glass of wine or half a glass of beer (usually have beer when it's extremely hot outside, cold beer is very refreshing).

M.

This is where I am. Ā I agree with prohibition based on doctrine, but don't accept the "because you can become an abuser" argument.

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2 hours ago, Maureen said:

I am a moderate drinker. I can go weeks even months without having alcohol. And if I do, I am fine with one glass of wine or half a glass of beer (usually have beer when it's extremely hot outside, cold beer is very refreshing).

M.

cold beer is very refreshing.............agreed. Although I don't imbibe anymore, I can say it is pretty awesome at times. I loved it when we came back from a week or two training for combat and were provided with coolers of iced down beer to drink while we cleaned our weapons and equipment. Not a lot of moderation though. You would be so dehydrated from the training one beer would light you up...ha.

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Guest LiterateParakeet
2 hours ago, Grunt said:

This is where I am. Ā I agree with prohibition based on doctrine, but don't accept the "because you can become an abuser" argument.

@GruntĀ and @MaureenĀ Ā Ā I hope you didn't think that's what I was saying. Ā We each have experiences that color the way we see the world. Ā My perspectiveĀ comes from an abusive childhood where alcohol played a large part and seeing all my siblings either become alcoholics or marry alcoholics. Ā In high school, when my closest friends (who also went to church with me) tried to get me to drink with them, the reason I didn't was because of my family, not because of the Word of Wisdom. Ā I didn't want to get drunk and act stupid, or become addicted. Ā 

Now, all that said, I understand that some people can drink and not become alcoholics, but I wasn't talking about others...just whether I personally wished that alcohol was not prohibited. Ā For me, it wouldn't make a difference. Ā 

I would add a word of caution though--I've taken prescribed pain meds a few times in my life, addiction was never an issue....until one day. Ā I was in a time of deep depression. Ā My husband said, "Why are you still taking those meds, surely you're not still in that much pain." Ā I got mad at him! Ā I told him he didn't know if I was in pain or not. Ā I wasn't in pain anymore though. Ā I just hadn't realized until that moment how much I wanted those pills. Ā I did not want to stop. Ā That scared me so I did stop....so while you can handle alcohol now without an issue, if may not always be that way. Ā Of course, you might then be an alcoholic but not an abuser. Ā Not all alcoholics are abusive but their addiction hurts those who love them still. Ā Ā 

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Guest LiterateParakeet
1 minute ago, Maureen said:

@LiterateParakeet, my comment was in response to @Carborendum's comment not really believing a person can be a moderate drinker based on polling non-moderate drinkers. We do exist.

M.

I'm glad, I mean I just wanted to be sure I didn't offend cause that was not my intention! :)Ā 

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Quote

Elder Richard L. Evans

of the Council of the Twelve

Perhaps I could begin with an interesting question posed recently and an equally interesting answer. The question was, ā€œDonā€™t you think the commandments should beĀ rewritten?ā€ The answer was, ā€œNo, they should beĀ reread.ā€

This may be a good point from which to take off for consideration of some fundamental facts; namely, the commandments of God are there. They come from a divine source. The experience of the ages has proved the need for them, and has proved what happens if they are ignored.

So why spend life in the frustration and unhappiness and sorrow and tragedy of trying to rationalize and wave them away?

For the full message:

https://www.lds.org/ensign/1971/12/should-the-commandments-be-rewritten?lang=eng

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