Is it hypocrisy to obey God when our heart's not in it?

[prisonchaplain]

God commands us to love our enemies. He expects us to show up in his house and praise him, even when we don’t feel like it. We protest, and say we do not want to be hypocrites. So we openly hate our enemies, and we absent ourselves from church when we’re ‘not feeling it.’ The Prophet Jonah (yes, he of the whale) may be the best argument in favor of obeying God when our hearts say no. He hates his enemies, the people of Nineveh. Nevertheless, he obeys God, and goes through the city, telling them God will destroy them. They repent, and God spares the city of 100,000 for three generations. This means that nearly 300,000 people will thank Jonah, who hated them, for saving their souls!

[Fether]

I have always hated the word hypocrisy. People seem to see it as an end all of some sort. That the sin of hypocrisy alone is the worst of all. If they feel hypocritical about going to church, they use that as justification not to go. If someone is asking us to repent of some sin, we bring up their sins and call them hypocrits for asking us to repent when they themselves are imperfect. We then use that as justification to avoid repentance.

I believe in order to progress in the gospel, many of us need to walk through some sort of hypocrisy to get to the other side (especially if we define hypocrisy as 'not doing something after having done it'... which in itself is repentance :p)

John 7:17 says "If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself."

so we must act when we don't know, often times that may mean doing it hypocritically (particularly for those leaving pride and trying to humble themselves and repent.)

So ya... we use the word hypocrisy as an anti-repentance sometimes.

[Guest]

Today's definition of hypocrisy is not scriptural.  If we are hypocrites for not living perfect lives, then we're all hypocrites.  So, what is hypocrisy?

A common evangelical interpretation of hypocrisy is someone who is a faker.  "I'm pretending to be perfect so you will listen to me when I tell you that you should do it."

The LDS definition is not completely in line with that.  While taking the general feel of that, there is a qualifier "a false projection of holier-than-thou" is required to qualify as the scriptural meaning of hypocrisy.

[Fether]

57 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

The LDS definition is not completely in line with that.  While taking the general feel of that, there is a qualifier "a false projection of holier-than-thou" is required to qualify as the scriptural meaning of hypocrisy.

And that is really hard to judge in others.

A "I did drugs yesterday with my friends, today I want to repent and stop so I'm going to say 'no' to my friends and stop hanging out." Situation can be interpreted by others as being a holier than thou. 

Only the individual and those righteous who have stewardship over them can see the hypocrisy.

[Traveler]

4 hours ago, prisonchaplain said:

God commands us to love our enemies. He expects us to show up in his house and praise him, even when we don’t feel like it. We protest, and say we do not want to be hypocrites. So we openly hate our enemies, and we absent ourselves from church when we’re ‘not feeling it.’ The Prophet Jonah (yes, he of the whale) may be the best argument in favor of obeying God when our hearts say no. He hates his enemies, the people of Nineveh. Nevertheless, he obeys God, and goes through the city, telling them God will destroy them. They repent, and God spares the city of 100,000 for three generations. This means that nearly 300,000 people will thank Jonah, who hated them, for saving their souls!

 

Interesting – I disagree with just about everything in your post except your conclusion that we ought to be obedient to G-d.  I disagree with how you define hypocrites.  I believe a person is a hypocrite if they believe that they should go to church and then don’t – regardless of whatever excuse.  I do not believe hypocrisy has anything to do with how someone feels about anything – it is about knowing better and not doing it.  I also think you missed the main points about the epoch of Jonah and why Jesus said that the sign of Jonah was a sign that he (Jesus) was the Messiah (Christ).

As an additional note – I am not religious because it suits me (the same about being loyal to my wife) – I do it because I owe it – big time debt and also because I made a formal covenant that I would.  I would rather be trusted than loved.

 

The Traveler

[Sunday21]

Obeying God when your heart is not in it, is a very good first step! It beats disobeying by a large margin.

Edited August 17, 2017 by Sunday21

[Jane_Doe]

5 hours ago, prisonchaplain said:

God commands us to love our enemies. He expects us to show up in his house and praise him, even when we don’t feel like it. We protest, and say we do not want to be hypocrites. So we openly hate our enemies, and we absent ourselves from church when we’re ‘not feeling it.’ The Prophet Jonah (yes, he of the whale) may be the best argument in favor of obeying God when our hearts say no. He hates his enemies, the people of Nineveh. Nevertheless, he obeys God, and goes through the city, telling them God will destroy them. They repent, and God spares the city of 100,000 for three generations. This means that nearly 300,000 people will thank Jonah, who hated them, for saving their souls!

A hypocrite is someone who says "don't do X, while blatantly doing X and refusing to acknowledge it" or the reverse saying "do X while they never do X and refuse to acknowledge it".  I don't see Jonah being a hypocrite.  He totally a reluctant servant, but not a hypocritical one.  

Edited August 17, 2017 by Jane_Doe

[prisonchaplain]

1 hour ago, Traveler said:

 

Interesting – I disagree with just about everything in your post except your conclusion that we ought to be obedient to G-d.  I disagree with how you define hypocrites.

 

The Traveler

I appreciate and "liked" your post. Just know that I was not so much defining hypocrisy as I was portraying how people wrongly perceive and misuse it. My sense is that you and I agree entirely on this topic.

[prisonchaplain]

@Jane_Doe I agree that Jonah was not a hypocrite. Rather, people misuse the word--or misunderstand it. Their error--if true--would turn Jonah into a hypocrite. 

[The Folk Prophet]

7 hours ago, Carborendum said:

Today's definition of hypocrisy is not scriptural.  If we are hypocrites for not living perfect lives, then we're all hypocrites.  So, what is hypocrisy?

A common evangelical interpretation of hypocrisy is someone who is a faker.  "I'm pretending to be perfect so you will listen to me when I tell you that you should do it."

The LDS definition is not completely in line with that.  While taking the general feel of that, there is a qualifier "a false projection of holier-than-thou" is required to qualify as the scriptural meaning of hypocrisy.

I don't find this idea entirely accurate. 

Seems like it means the same thing it's always meant, both in the LDS church and in greater Christendom.

Now if you say that people USE the term wrong all the time.........yeah.

Saying that one knows such-n-such is a sin even though one sometimes messes up and engages in such-n-such is not hypocrisy and never has been.

Claiming that one is perfect and then knowingly and intentionally going out and sinning is.

[person0]

Quote

It is better to obey the commandments because we fear punishment than not to obey them at all.  But we will be much happier if we obey God because we love Him and want to obey Him.

(Gospel Principles - Obedience - lds.org)  emphasis added

This Church manual sums up my belief on the matter fairly well.

[Guest]

I'm not sure what you mean since you did not give a definition yourself.  But here is what I mean.

Most people say "Hypocrisy is not practicing what you preach."  That alone doesn't mean anything.  I say that we should not lose our tempers.  But I have that problem.  Does it change the fact that we should not lose our tempers?  Does it somehow make the statement untrue? No. So, what was wrong with what I said?

Am I really forbidden from saying what is good and bad behavior just because I have some character flaws?  I don't believe so.  And I don't believe that is what the Lord meant when he showed His disdain for hypocrites.  And if we had to wait until we were perfect before we preached about a thing, then most of us would be waiting a very long time before we could preach about anything.

The other day I was researching a different topic and stumbled upon an evangelical Christian blog that was talking about the topic of hypocrisy.  He pointed out the same thing I explained above.  He agreed with that notion.  He explained his position about hypocrisy being a form or lying or pretending.  Indeed, the root of the word actually comes from "playing" or "acting".  Some of what he said rang true to me.  And in the context he may have meant what I had in mind.  But as it was, his definition was incomplete. 

I then remembered the Mormon Doctrine entry on hypocrisy.  

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The false assumption of virtue, righteousness, and goodness...

The Bible Dictionary entry is somewhat related:

Quote

The word generally denotes one who pretends to be religious when he is not (though it is sometimes used to mean simply a bad man).

--Bible Dictionary, hypocrite

I tend to shorten this to: "A false display of holiness."

With particular reference to some like the Pharisees, we must note the remainder of Elder McConkie's definition.

Quote

...or in the false assumption of the right and power to preach the principles of the gospel.

Now, to get back to what you may have meant... I just looked up the dictionary's definition of "hypocrisy".  One definition is Elder McConkie's definition.  Another is the same as the evangelical definition.  So, yes, I guess the dictionary definition is still correct.  But most people tend to use it wrong.

[prisonchaplain]

If I don't feel like praising the LORD, because I had a bad week--but I do, that's NOT hypocrisy--it's 'the sacrifice of praise'--and it's obedience. However, if someone says, "Wow, you really seem to have the victory this week, what with the way you were praising God," and I respond, "Oh yeah--victory is mine, in Jesus," then I am delving into hypocrisy.  NOW, somebody catches me and says, "Why did you say you had the victory when I know you had a crummy week?" I can double-down on my hypocrisy by responding, "I was replying 'in faith,' brother!"

[Midwest LDS]

I agree with @prisonchaplain While the ideal is to obey God because we love him and want to serve him, obeying for any reason is far better than not obeying. I like the Savior's example of this in Matthew 21:28-31.

           "28 But what think ye? A certain man had two sons; and he came to the first, and said, Son, go work to day in my vineyard.
            29 He answered and said, I will not: but afterward he repented, and went.
            30 And he came to the second, and said likewise. And he answered and said, I go, sir: and went not.
            31 Whether of them twain did the will of his father? They say unto him, The first. Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you."

Edited August 18, 2017 by Midwest LDS

[The Folk Prophet]

12 hours ago, Carborendum said:

So, yes, I guess the dictionary definition is still correct.  But most people tend to use it wrong.

I believe, if I'm not mistaken, that is exactly what I said.

[Traveler]

@prisonchaplain and anyone else interested.

I wanted to touch on something in this thread.  It has to do with obedience and hypocrisy.   I believe we must first look to obedience.  Since Jesus often would reference our relationship to G-d with marriage – I will follow this analogy.   What I would like to do is magnify the understand of marriage and just dating or being in love without marriage.  Some are of the notion that if you are really in love – marriage really does not make much of a difference – but it does when we look through the lens of being obedient.

To kiss someone just because you have affections for them has nothing to do with obedience.  There is nothing to obey or disobey.  To be obedient there must be a contractual agreement.   In marriage, there is a binding contract – if it is a religious marriage the contract includes both the laws (contracts) of the society that contracts to recognize and accept the marriage and with G-d.  I am suggesting that without a binding contract there can be no obedience or disobedience.   A short note here – this is another reason I respect LDS theology more than many other religions that teach man comes into mortality without any actual binding contract with G-d.  I believe that our birth was part of our contract with G-d – which could only be if we existed before we were born.

If we have no contract with G-d we are not accountable for a breach of contract or disobedience to a contract that does not exist.  If there is no contract or agreement there can be no obedience or disobedience.    What happens when someone thinks they are obedient or disobedient when there is no contract.  If some stranger mowed your lawn are you being obedient or disobedient if you pay them or if you do not pay them? 

On the same note are you a hypocrite if you refuse to pay?  You are both disobedient and a hypocrite if you have a binding contract and do not uphold your promise to the agreement. 

 

The Traveler