Does masterbation break the law of chastity?

[Jamie123]

On 8/29/2017 at 0:51 AM, Anonymous1101 said:

So in church we had a lesson on chastity and why it is important to keep and during it i started to wonder if because I masturbate and look at porn does that break the law of chastity?

I'm not LDS, so you may want to take anything I say with a pinch of salt, but this is my experience has told me.

Firstly pornography and masturbation go hand in hand. (They're not called "w**k mags" for nothing!) Looking at porn will lead towards masturbation. It may not lead to masturbation straight away - you may be able to resist the urge (for a while) but the drive will be there, and sooner or later you you will probably yield to it.

So you can find yourself in one of three categories:

1. You can keep away from porn and masturbation entirely and for life.
2. You can indulge - then have an "awakening conscience" moment, destroy your stash and delete your online accounts. You think you've beaten it. But then comes Temptation. Temptation is, as Ignatius of Loyola once said (**political incorrectness alert**) "like a nagging wife" - it gets inside you and niggles at you and never gives you a moment's peace. Eventually you decide - in a weak moment - to have a "day trip back to the pigs" (a lovely expression coined by Adrian Plass). "Just a quick never-to-be-repeated peek," you think. "No harm will come of it! I can always repent!" But the trouble with "a day trip back to the pigs" is that it turns quickly into a weekend break, then a week's vacation and finally a two-month sabbatical. Then (hopefully) comes the "awakening conscience" again, and the cycle repeats.
3. You can indulge wholeheartedly and to hell with the consequences. Now the problem with this is that sooner or later you will lose interest in "ordinary" porn and will crave something more extreme and more shocking. You will sink deeper and deeper, seeking ever more perverse material. Even real sex with your partner will lose its savour. (There is a scatological British comic called Viz, which used to feature a strip called "Morris Day the Sexual Pervert"; the protagonist was always pushing aside his very attractive wife in order to indulge in his own bizarre perversions alone. It was intended as ridiculous humour, but it had more than a grain of truth in it.) Eventually nothing will satisfy you at all - you'll be like the man with the lizard on his shoulder in C.S. Lewis' "The Great Divorce" (if you don't know the book, read it!) - not even lustful but desperately craving lust - and at the same time hating every moment of it. 

Now I'm not saying that getting yourself into Category 3 will necessarily turn you into a violent child-raping monster. (There is a world of difference between indulging in violent sexual fantasy and acting it out for real, and I fear that criminalizing the viewing of extreme porn, as has happened in the UK, punishes the families - who often are the real victims - as much as the porn-viewers themselves. But that's not relevant to what I'm saying here.) I suspect there are many people in this situation who seem to all outward appearance quite normal, but who are inside treading the borders of hell; both longing for salvation and hating the thought of it.

The trick is to get out of Category 2 and into Category 1, before the cycle descends into Category 3. One approach (and this ought to be the simplest thing in the world, but for some reason isn't) is to immerse yourself in scripture. Read it every day - several times a day. Don't content yourself with those little books that reproduce carefully chosen passages of non-challenging scripture, together with bland "explanations" of what they (supposedly) "mean". Read the entire Bible cover to cover - OT and NT concurrently - and at the same time (maybe a half hour set aside in the mornings) concentrate on particular books, especially the four Gospels. Try to read it prayerfully. Read it even (especially!) when you don't feel like reading it. Even if you don't understand the point of what you're reading - and you're certainly not alone there - some parts of the Bible are very strange! Scripture is anathemic to pornography - if you have both in your life they'll fight like cats till one is gone. (This includes erotic scripture like Song of Songs - that's the "real thing", of which pornography is a twisted counterfeit.) And pray too - again even when it seems pointless, and you feel no one is listening, keep at it. It may sound trite, but "Satan trembles when he sees the weakest Christian on his knees".

Another thing: close all your porn accounts online. If the sites don't have a "close account" feature, then write an unmemorizably complicated sequence of characters on a piece pf paper, change your password to that, then tear up the paper. If you have an e-mail account to recover your password, go through the same procedure with that too. Now if the fit takes you, you will need to create a new account, and a new e-mail, which these days requires a complicated procedure involving your cellphone. So if later on you decide a "pig-day-trip" is in order, you will be faced with a complicated rigmarole of procedures, at some point during which you will hopefully (and by God's grace) see reason.

Yet another thing: take Communion (Sacrament, Eucharist, Mass, Lord's Table...whatever you call it in your denomination.) Don't shy away from it because you feel "unworthy". I have made that mistake many times, and for far stupider reasons than either masturbation or pornography. If you know you are a sinner, know you need God's forgiveness, desire God's forgiveness, are willing to follow Him - though you might doubt your resolve to go through with it - then as far as that goes you are worthy. That's what it's there for - so that your sinful body may become purified through Christ's body.

As for "telling other people", I have at times in the past confessed masturbation to my priest at confession, but I've always been a half-hearted Anglo-Catholic; deep down I'm a protestant, and I believe we all have a "direct line" to God. (The "Priesthood of All Believers" and all that.) But communion with other members of the Church help us to know we are not alone in our struggles. (BTW I'm talking here about the "Universal Church" here - not any denomination - but I'm straying into an area where most LDS would probably disagree with other Christians - so I'll say no more.)

Edited September 5, 2017 by Jamie123

[The Folk Prophet]

11 hours ago, JohnsonJones said:

Making mountains out of molehills only scares someone from walking over a molehill easily because they think it is a mountain instead.

And calling mountains molehills just because there happen to be larger mountains out there doesn't help anyone either.

[Traveler]

4 hours ago, The Folk Prophet said:

And calling mountains molehills just because there happen to be larger mountains out there doesn't help anyone either.

 

I completely agree! 

Thinking something is okay or even good or preferred because something else is much worse is one of the greatest follies of self-serving or self-justifying logic.  It is like saying that a certain thing is not as bad a feeding children to crocodiles – therefore no one should be concerned when it happens.   

I believe the worse part of the logic that - this is not as bad as that logic - is when someone begins to think somehow that they are the exception that proves it is not all that bad – then certainly it is not as bad as feeding innocent children to crocodiles.  One assumption in Chaos Theory is to use fractals to predict what would happen if all were affected in the same (worse case) manner as a method to scientifically project the most likely outcome.  If such an outcome is problematic or “dangerous” then by the most advanced scientific method of predicting outcome – it is not intelligent or very smart to pursue.   In short – it is not a very good idea to bet your life on it.

 

The Traveler

[Snigmorder]

4 hours ago, The Folk Prophet said:

And calling mountains molehills just because there happen to be larger mountains out there doesn't help anyone either.

My best friend tolerates profanity because "it's not the worst thing in the world!"

 

[Anonymous1101]

To all of you who have suggested that I stop I want to rephrase what I said, what I should have said is this, i used to frequently masturbate and look at pornography, since then I have talked with my bishop and talked with therapists about it at this point in my recovery I don't relapse very often however they do happen because it is a very strong addiction and the last time I did it was about three months ago however I was wondering if it broke the law of chastity, also thank you all for your concern and answers.

[Jane_Doe]

3 hours ago, Anonymous1101 said:

To all of you who have suggested that I stop I want to rephrase what I said, what I should have said is this, i used to frequently masturbate and look at pornography, since then I have talked with my bishop and talked with therapists about it at this point in my recovery I don't relapse very often however they do happen because it is a very strong addiction and the last time I did it was about three months ago however I was wondering if it broke the law of chastity, also thank you all for your concern and answers.

That is absolutely fantastic!!!

[Midwest LDS]

That's great @Anonymous1101 keep up the good work. You can beat it and, with Christ's help and some time, be done with it for good!

[Guest]

.

Edited September 29, 2017 by Guest

[Just_A_Guy]

2 hours ago, Lehite said:

[1] In regards to masterbating,  is it wrong  when a married couple do it together, is it wrong,

[2]when a married couple have physical problems that they cannot create their own child and need to be helped by IVF and the husband has to produce his 'gold' into a cup, on that same topic,

[3] what does the church think about sperm donation,, or other donation clinics, like blood donating, also what about organ donation ? 

With all due respect, we’re over-thinking some of this.

1.  Erm . . . “mutual stimulation” between husband and wife falls pretty clearly into the realm of “sexual intercourse”.

2.  Just_A_Girl and I had fertility problems early on and had to get tested.  Suffice it to say . . . when you go into the sample room, you can bring a partner.  Theologically speaking, there’s no such thing as legitimate medical porn use. 

3.  IIRC the Church used to discourage IVF generally; I think primarily because of concerns about the destruction of extraneous embryos.  But the current position is that if done, it should be only with the couple’s own genetic material.

[Vort]

2 hours ago, Lehite said:

jerking off

Seriously? Are we twelve-year-olds?

[JohnsonJones]

2 hours ago, Vort said:

Seriously? Are we twelve-year-olds?

You stated we? 

I assume you know how old you are at this point...

... or have you gotten to my point where sometimes I can't exactly recall how old I am and then I have to start doing math (I know what year I was born...I know what year it is...this year - birth year = age...oh, wait, I was born later in the year...so has that month passed yet).  I don't know why such a simple thing gets hard to remember sometimes.

That said, I'm pretty sure I'm older than twelve. 

[Grunt]

Masturbation and pornography are not always connected.  

[zil]

@JohnsonJones, clearly, @Vort is asking @Lehite whether @Lehite thinks he is talking to a group of 12-year-olds.  (This of course is a mechanism for pointing out that @Lehite is using the kind of language that 12-year-olds use, and for suggesting that he really should have out-grown this language by now.)

At least, that's how I read it as someone whose age is evenly divisible by 12.

[Guest]

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Edited September 29, 2017 by Guest

[Blossom76]

Please stop these activities, they are both so bad for your soul and against the LDS church and the church I grew up in, I will pray for you.

[Guest]

On 9/29/2017 at 7:46 AM, zil said:

@JohnsonJones, clearly, @Vort is asking @Lehite whether @Lehite thinks he is talking to a group of 12-year-olds.  (This of course is a mechanism for pointing out that @Lehite is using the kind of language that 12-year-olds use, and for suggesting that he really should have out-grown this language by now.)

At least, that's how I read it as someone whose age is evenly divisible by 12.

But is the square root of that age also a factor of 12? 

Edited November 13, 2017 by Guest

[Guest]

There are three ways to look at masturbation as a sin.

1) People have mentioned the biochemistry aspect of it.  To be honest, I'm still studying this to determine just how much truth there is to it.  I haven't found anything definitive that gives me confidence either way.

2) It is a slippery slope.  Stay away from the edge of the cliff sort of thing.  This means that, in-and-of-itself, it is not so serious as, say, fornication.  Which it isn't.  But just how serious is it?  Well, the edge of the cliff metaphor says it doesn't matter.  Stay away from the edge of the cliff.

3) It separates us from real people.  Sex can be animalistic... hedonistic.  It can be simply about the physical sensations of pleasure itself.  But there is something lost in that experience.  Making love with your eternal companion is a religious and spiritual experience.  It is an event where you are truly one.  Every time you participate in such self-abuse or any stimulating experience outside that unifying experience with your companion, it takes away from the experience that you COULD have had with the one meaningful person in your life.

Being truly one with your spouse is something that is spiritual, emotional, temporal, and physical.  To separate one of those from the others tends to weaken the potential for the oneness that we might otherwise feel with our spouse.

Edited November 13, 2017 by Guest

[zil]

28 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

But is the square root of that age also a factor of 12? 

Dude, it's Monday.  At least, I think it's Monday - that's what the phone says.  The only math I'm doing today relates to open enrollment.

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, zil said:

Dude, it's Monday.  At least, I think it's Monday - that's what the phone says.  The only math I'm doing today relates to open enrollment.

I'll take that as a yes.  So, I guessed your age, huh?  That's awfully young to be RS pres.  But I've known bishops who were younger.  My BIL was a bishop when he was about 30.  And he was a really good one too.   He really is wise beyond his years.  Somehow I see you as being from the same mold.

[zil]

24 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

I'll take that as a yes.  So, I guessed your age, huh?  That's awfully young to be RS pres.  But I've known bishops who were younger.  My BIL was a bishop when he was about 30.  And he was a really good one too.   He really is wise beyond his years.  Somehow I see you as being from the same mold.

Curse you for making me do math on a Monday when I already have to deal with open enrollment nonsense.  No, you didn't guess my age.  I wish I were too young (or too old) to be an RSP. My bishop is 5 years younger than I am.  Sorry to ruin your mold.

[Guest]

Just now, zil said:

Curse you for making me do math on a Monday when I already have to deal with open enrollment nonsense.  No, you didn't guess my age.  I wish I were too young (or too old) to be an RSP. My bishop is 5 years younger than I am.  Sorry to ruin your mold.

Ah!  Right.  I should have remembered your affinity for 80s music.  My wife just can't forgive me for my affinity for 60s music.

[zil]

Just now, Carborendum said:

Ah!  Right.  I should have remembered your affinity for 80s music.  My wife just can't forgive me for my affinity for 60s music.

I have an affinity for 80s music?  Hmm.  I like classical, that's mostly older than that; jazz, mostly newer than that; oldies, all older than that (50s-70s);  big band, all older than that; bagpipes, no idea how old that is; some country, I think it's all newer than that; and your usual popular / rock / whatever you call it, which might include some 80s.  When I get home, I'll have to see if my software will tell me this information so I can get some sort of percentage and determine whether that can accurately be described as "affinity".

[zil]

3 hours ago, Carborendum said:

Ah!  Right.  I should have remembered your affinity for 80s music.

 

3 hours ago, zil said:

I have an affinity for 80s music?  Hmm.  I like classical, that's mostly older than that; jazz, mostly newer than that; oldies, all older than that (50s-70s);  big band, all older than that; bagpipes, no idea how old that is; some country, I think it's all newer than that; and your usual popular / rock / whatever you call it, which might include some 80s.  When I get home, I'll have to see if my software will tell me this information so I can get some sort of percentage and determine whether that can accurately be described as "affinity".

[mirkwood]

9 hours ago, Carborendum said:

Ah!  Right.  I should have remembered your affinity for 80s music.  

No that would be me.

[Guest]

7 hours ago, mirkwood said:

No that would be me.

As I recall it was nearly the entire cadre of frequenters to the site.