Does masterbation break the law of chastity?

[BJ64]

I think the important thing is to be certain you are done having children and don’t rush into sterilization at a young age. 

[BJ64]

I believe that most of the current and past thinking on the evils of masturbation originated with the book    

https://archive.org/details/b20442348

ONANIA OR, THE

HEINOUS SIN OF

SELF POLUTION

AND ALL ITS

Frightful Consequences (in Both Sexes) CONSIDERED:

With Spiritual and Phyfical Advice to thofe who have already injured themfelves by this abominable Practice.

written in about 1756. Before it was published there wasn’t much concern about it but this book led to hysteria over it and to all sorts of Chastity devices aimed to prevent masrurbation. 

It was this same line of thinking that lead Kellog to produce a bland cereal to dampen sexual desire and to promote circumcision to reduced the tendency of masturbation. 

I feel that writings such as this had a lot more to do with religious prohibitions on masturbation due to its supposed harmful effects than did scripture or revelation. 

Thomas Aquinas and St. Augustine both wrote against it but I don’t consider them to be either prophets or inspired men. 

[wenglund]

On 5/20/2018 at 10:11 PM, BJ64 said:

I believe that most of the current and past thinking on the evils of masturbation originated with the book    

https://archive.org/details/b20442348

ONANIA OR, THE

HEINOUS SIN OF

SELF POLUTION

AND ALL ITS

Frightful Consequences (in Both Sexes) CONSIDERED:

With Spiritual and Phyfical Advice to thofe who have already injured themfelves by this abominable Practice.

written in about 1756. Before it was published there wasn’t much concern about it but this book led to hysteria over it and to all sorts of Chastity devices aimed to prevent masrurbation. 

It was this same line of thinking that lead Kellog to produce a bland cereal to dampen sexual desire and to promote circumcision to reduced the tendency of masturbation. 

I feel that writings such as this had a lot more to do with religious prohibitions on masturbation due to its supposed harmful effects than did scripture or revelation. 

Thomas Aquinas and St. Augustine both wrote against it but I don’t consider them to be either prophets or inspired men. 

I don't know about the past, but at least some current thinking on the evils of masturbation (particularly when related to porn) is based on modern science: 

https://www.yourbrainonporn.com/about-us

Granted, there is some culturally driven "science" that extols the benefits of occasional masturbation, but it  tends to look at short term isolated causes and effects, rather than  holistically and long term.

Our evolved adult physical bodies are designed to reproduce and perpetuate the species. And, while we may use simulating behaviors to fool the body for a time into believing it is fulfilling its design and the measure of its creation, the physical body, if not also the spirit, will eventually figure things out, with dis-beneficial results.

The law of chastity isn't the makings of a vindictive God who wishes to deny His children their fun and enjoyment. It, including counsel against masturbation, is wisdom and for our best, even, and perhaps particularly, when our finite and relatively ignorant brains have yet to fully comprehend why.

Thanks, -Wade Enlgund-

[BJ64]

3 hours ago, wenglund said:

I don't know about the past, but at least some current thinking on the evils of masturbation (particularly when related to porn) is based on modern science: 

https://www.yourbrainonporn.com/about-us

That link contains nothing about masturbation. 

People need to get over the idea that masturbation and porn are the same thing or that they always go together. Cake and ice cream go together but that doesn’t mean they always go together. 

The article was particularly about Internet porn. That has only existed for maybe a couple of decades. Masturbation has been going on for thousands of years. 

It cannot be inferred that what happens to the brain from viewing internet porn happens also from masturbation. 

[Just_A_Guy]

2 hours ago, BJ64 said:

It cannot be inferred that what happens to the brain from viewing internet porn happens also from masturbation. 

So . . . Seeing images of nekkkid women releases dopamine; and having sex releases dopamine; but causing oneself to ejaculate doesn’t release dopamine?

Edited May 23, 2018 by Just_A_Guy

[BJ64]

19 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

So . . . Seeing images of nekkkid women releases dopamine; and having sex releases dopamine; but causing oneself to ejaculate doesn’t release dopamine?

I believe the whole porn addiction reduces sexual response has to do with the brain being trained to respond to that type of stimulation rather than normal stimulation. Making it so that a person can’t respond normally to normal stimulation. Having sex does not have to his same effect. In other words having sex does not train the mind to not respond to sexual stimulus. 

In my own relationship with my wife frequency boosts libido. It does not detract from it  

That was hard for me to say without being graphic. 

 

Edited May 23, 2018 by BJ64

[BJ64]

To try to explain better what I said, porn viewing reduces ones ability to respond to sexual stimulus but frequent sex does not. If anything frequent sex makes one more responsive.  

[BJ64]

I am not advocating masturbation but in response to @wenglundin searching for information I can find no harmful health effects of masturbation. However the list of claimed health benefits is long. The reports of the harmful effects of porn don’t seem to apply to masturbation. 

[wenglund]

14 hours ago, BJ64 said:

That link contains nothing about masturbation. 

People need to get over the idea that masturbation and porn are the same thing or that they always go together. Cake and ice cream go together but that doesn’t mean they always go together. 

The article was particularly about Internet porn. That has only existed for maybe a couple of decades. Masturbation has been going on for thousands of years. 

It cannot be inferred that what happens to the brain from viewing internet porn happens also from masturbation. 

Seriously? That is your reaction to my comments and the linked web site (not to be confused with "article"--evidently someone didn't see all the tabs and links to a wealth of material)? I ask because I am sensing very little in the way of comprehension and a whole lot of self-justification.

Whatever the case, I understand the need for masturbation advocates to distance tactile self-stimulation from visual self-stimulation (even though both are poor imitations of the real thing) since science is now coming down rather heavily on the latter.

However, even though for several decades now science has been pressed into service propping up the culture of immorality, we are starting to get real scientific glimmers of dangers, not just regarding porn, but also with masturbation: http://www.higherperspectives.com/new-research-1495327273.html

Granted,  with masturbation the very new science is advising keeping it in check as opposed to abstinence in the case of porn.  But, give it some time. After all, there was a time when science wasn't all that worried about porn.

Nevertheless, on those presumably rare occasion when porn (which includes nudie magazines, salacious novels, and even fantasizing--all of which predate the internet by not a few years) goes hand in hand with masturbation (pun and sarcasm intended), there is the makings of an interesting cocktail.  Yet, for the masturbation advocates among us:

Thanks, -Wade Enlgund- 

Edited May 23, 2018 by wenglund

[wenglund]

4 hours ago, BJ64 said:

To try to explain better what I said, porn viewing reduces ones ability to respond to sexual stimulus but frequent sex does not. If anything frequent sex makes one more responsive.  

That is because with imitation sex  (like porn and to some degree masturbation--see HERE, and to a greater extent in combination) dopamine is released just as with real sex (i am here indirectly answering @Just_A_Guy's question), though unlike with real sex, there isn't the countering effect of oxycotin.  Consequently, with imitation sex the non-countered dopamine can eventually result in "downregulation" (i.e. desensitizing or decrease in dopamine receptors), which can either lead to addiction (more and more dopamine is required to surmount the desensitizing,) or decrease in sexual appetite or function. 

Not a problem!!

Thanks, -Wade Enlgund-

[Grunt]

5 hours ago, BJ64 said:

I am not advocating masturbation but in response to @wenglundin searching for information I can find no harmful health effects of masturbation. However the list of claimed health benefits is long. The reports of the harmful effects of porn don’t seem to apply to masturbation. 

You absolutely are advocating for masturbation.  You’re saying it isn’t harmful.  You’re insinuating the church has changed its position.  You’re stating it’s normal.  

You should stop.  

Edited May 23, 2018 by Grunt

[unixknight]

I recently learned some interesting information that is pretty bleak for young men.

It seems erectile dysfunction is an unusually widespread problem right now for men, especially in their twenties. It's actually more widespread than ever before.

Know what male demographic is currently experiencing the LEAST trouble with ED?

Men in their 40s and up.

Here's why...  men younger than 40-ish had access to Internet porn in their adolescence.  Boys who got hooked early are now having serious problems having normal, healthy relations with women.  Men in their 40s and up just missed the rise of unlimited, free porn online and so had more normal adolescent sexual development.

Online porn puts literally thousands of women on display in those situations and viewing it during adolescence programs the brain with the expectation of variety and quick gratification.  That's not what normal sex is.

Generation X may well be the very last generation of men to not be damaged like this.

So @BJ64, you may be right on some level about the distinction between porn and masturbation, but this isn't really the time to be dying on that hill.  Our focus needs to be protecting our young men and ourselves from this scourge.  Yes, we can have cake and ice cream separately, but if 99.9% of people eat them together, that's not a useful distinction.

[BJ64]

4 hours ago, Grunt said:

You absolutely are advocating for masturbation.  You’re saying it isn’t harmful.  You’re insinuating the church has changed its position.  You’re stating it’s normal.  

You should stop.  

I was referring to physical effects. I did not say that there are not harmful spiritual effects. 

The post I was replying to was trying to make the case that masturbation should be avoided because of harmful health effects. My reply was to show that the referred to link was showing articles about the health effects of porn not masturbation. 

I am simple making a distinction between masturbation and because many people seem to think they are one and the same when they are not. 

Regular sex and masturbation do not have the same harmful effects on sexual response that the hyper stimulation of porn causes. 

 

[BJ64]

27 minutes ago, unixknight said:

I recently learned some interesting information that is pretty bleak for young men.

It seems erectile dysfunction is an unusually widespread problem right now for men, especially in their twenties. It's actually more widespread than ever before.

Know what male demographic is currently experiencing the LEAST trouble with ED?

Men in their 40s and up.

Here's why...  men younger than 40-ish had access to Internet porn in their adolescence.  Boys who got hooked early are now having serious problems having normal, healthy relations with women.  Men in their 40s and up just missed the rise of unlimited, free porn online and so had more normal adolescent sexual development.

Online porn puts literally thousands of women on display in those situations and viewing it during adolescence programs the brain with the expectation of variety and quick gratification.  That's not what normal sex is.

Generation X may well be the very last generation of men to not be damaged like this.

So @BJ64, you may be right on some level about the distinction between porn and masturbation, but this isn't really the time to be dying on that hill.  Our focus needs to be protecting our young men and ourselves from this scourge.  Yes, we can have cake and ice cream separately, but if 99.9% of people eat them together, that's not a useful distinction.

Yes, but to equate the harmful health effects of porn to masturbation is like saying the high amount of milk fat in cake is harmful to your health. 

[unixknight]

15 minutes ago, BJ64 said:

Yes, but to equate the harmful health effects of porn to masturbation is like saying the high amount of milk fat in cake is harmful to your health. 

What are the harmful effects of not masturbating?

[wenglund]

35 minutes ago, unixknight said:

What are the harmful effects of not masturbating?

You mean like Christ?

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[Grunt]

2 hours ago, BJ64 said:

I was referring to physical effects. I did not say that there are not harmful spiritual effects. 

The post I was replying to was trying to make the case that masturbation should be avoided because of harmful health effects. My reply was to show that the referred to link was showing articles about the health effects of porn not masturbation. 

I am simple making a distinction between masturbation and because many people seem to think they are one and the same when they are not. 

Regular sex and masturbation do not have the same harmful effects on sexual response that the hyper stimulation of porn causes. 

 

I know.  Just another of your attempts to condone masturbation, veiled with feigned innocence.  

[BJ64]

12 hours ago, unixknight said:

What are the harmful effects of not masturbating?

There are a lot of negative effects from not having sex. So for those who are married I’d suggest having  it frequently. Contrary to what some may think, frequent sex does not diminish libido or function. It has the opposite effect that frequent porn use has. 

I’ll let you do your own google search to learn more. 

[BJ64]

12 hours ago, wenglund said:

You mean like Christ?

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

As a side note, do you think He lived a sexless life?

[unixknight]

1 minute ago, BJ64 said:

There are a lot of negative effects from not having sex. So for those who are married I’d suggest having  it frequently. Contrary to what some may think, frequent sex does not diminish libido or function. It has the opposite effect that frequent porn use has. 

I’ll let you do your own google search to learn more. 

That's not what I asked you:

12 hours ago, unixknight said:

What are the harmful effects of not masturbating?

Emphasis added.

[BJ64]

1 hour ago, unixknight said:

That's not what I asked you:

Emphasis added.

I know what you are trying to get me to say. I will just say that there are health advantages from frequent sex and health disadvantages for lack of sex and leave it at that. 

I will add that I had a health problem from my late teens until I was married because I did not masturbate. Frequent sexual activity after marriage remedied the problem but the key word here is frequent. Without frequent activity the problem returns. I detailed this in another thread which was deleted due to sexual content. 

Again you can google the harmful effects of not masturbating. Getting too explicit here is against the rules. 

Edited May 24, 2018 by BJ64

[unixknight]

7 minutes ago, BJ64 said:

I know what you are trying to get me to say. I will just say that there are health advantages from frequent sex and health disadvantages for lack of sex and leave it at that. 

I will add that I had a health problem from my late teens until I was married because I did not masturbate. Frequent sexual activity after marriage remedied the problem but the key word here is frequent. Without frequent activity the problem returns. I detailed this in another thread which was deleted due to sexual content. 

Again you can google the harmful effects of not masturbating. Getting too explicit here is against the rules. 

Not trying to "get you to say" anything.  If you're unwilling to answer directly then my point is made.

If you're telling us that your personal case was a medical anomaly then fine, it's a medical anomaly.  No need to detail it. 

Just for giggles I went ahead and googled it and the bulk of what I found does not support your point.

[BJ64]

8 minutes ago, unixknight said:

Not trying to "get you to say" anything.  If you're unwilling to answer directly then my point is made.

If you're telling us that your personal case was a medical anomaly then fine, it's a medical anomaly.  No need to detail it. 

Just for giggles I went ahead and googled it and the bulk of what I found does not support your point.

If you google to ask if it is harmful to not madturbate then it’s probably going to say no. However if you google asking the health benefits of masturbation you will find a lot of benefits. Therefore not masturbating will deny these benefits. 

[BJ64]

14 minutes ago, unixknight said:

If you're telling us that your personal case was a medical anomaly then fine, it's a medical anomaly.  No need to detail it. 

I’m not sure if my problem is an anomaly or not. Not many men in general society go without sex long enough to notice if they had my same problem. If you did a research study on it you wouldn’t find willing participants. 

[wenglund]

2 hours ago, BJ64 said:

As a side note, do you think He lived a sexless life?

I have an entirely speculative and tentative belief that he was married. Beyond that, I haven't paid much mind.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-