Wife said she never loved me...ouch


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1 hour ago, Dillon said:

No actually I got the same talk from mom like everyone else.  Treat women with respect, love all that stuff.  And thats fine. Its great. Its the way it should be. 

That is True.

1 hour ago, Dillon said:

But I learned from an early age women dont want that.  God made my mom, she is in her sixties, he made all woman back then.   See the devil started sending women to earth about 1985, maybe a little earlier.

That is completely false.

I ask again: are you willing to cast off these chains of falsehoods and learn the Truth?

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15 hours ago, mormondad said:

After about 5 years of marriage, my wife told me she never loved me.

Everything I read talks about rekindling the lost love that was there in the beginning, but what if it was never there?? What if she married me for reasons other than love? Her main reasons were that she believed I would be a kind husband & father and a good provider. I admit those aren’t bad reasons, but I would have liked there to be some genuine romantic love on her part. I still feel like there was and I like to think there was, but there are just so many mixed messages I don't know what to think anymore.

A little background. I majorly pursued her in college and thought that I had truly won her over when we started to talk marriage. I thought it was safe to assume that her marrying me was a signal that she was just as crazy about me as I was about her...nope.

5 years later after baby number 3 we were having problems and went to counseling. We didn't realize at the time she was in the middle of postpartum depression. But that’s when it came out. I felt devastated, cheated, and that I was no more than a sperm bank and a paycheck. I realize it might not be fair to put a lot of weight in things said by a woman in the midst of ppd, but the cynical side of me thought she was in a state of such indifference that she just let her true thoughts flow. I figured the ppd was just a vehicle that allowed the truth to come out.

Fast forward five more years. We are active LDS trying to do things right, but I feel like our marriage could be so much more. I fear that our young kids will sense a disconnection in my marriage and that it will have negative implication in theirs. Even when things seem good, I always have the thought deep down that she never really loved me. It’s hard not to attribute any marital problem to that. It also wasn't very reassuring when we had another therapist a year or two later who was pretty quick to suggest divorce.

Am I overthinking this? I realize we're still much better off than many arranged marriages. I think about President Kimball’s famous quote that “almost any good man and any good woman can have happiness and a successful marriage if both are willing to pay the price." (Why did he have to say “almost any”?) In the same talk he says “marriage can be, more an exultant ecstasy than the human mind can conceive.” That just seems so far out of reach for me. 

Do I just settle for the fact that my wife settled for me? Or do I fight for something more? How do I come to terms and stop thinking about it? Do I talk to her? It's come up occasionally but usually in an argument (she never really acknowledges it, but she never denies it either). Do I just endure and hope for the best of the afterlife? That seems like a bleak prospect.

Thanks in advance. This one is my humdinger of the last decade.

In case anyone forgot the OP, and WHO this thread is about. :cool:

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18 hours ago, mormondad said:

After about 5 years of marriage, my wife told me she never loved me.

Everything I read talks about rekindling the lost love that was there in the beginning, but what if it was never there?? What if she married me for reasons other than love? Her main reasons were that she believed I would be a kind husband & father and a good provider. I admit those aren’t bad reasons, but I would have liked there to be some genuine romantic love on her part. I still feel like there was and I like to think there was, but there are just so many mixed messages I don't know what to think anymore.

A little background. I majorly pursued her in college and thought that I had truly won her over when we started to talk marriage. I thought it was safe to assume that her marrying me was a signal that she was just as crazy about me as I was about her...nope.

5 years later after baby number 3 we were having problems and went to counseling. We didn't realize at the time she was in the middle of postpartum depression. But that’s when it came out. I felt devastated, cheated, and that I was no more than a sperm bank and a paycheck. I realize it might not be fair to put a lot of weight in things said by a woman in the midst of ppd, but the cynical side of me thought she was in a state of such indifference that she just let her true thoughts flow. I figured the ppd was just a vehicle that allowed the truth to come out.

Fast forward five more years. We are active LDS trying to do things right, but I feel like our marriage could be so much more. I fear that our young kids will sense a disconnection in my marriage and that it will have negative implication in theirs. Even when things seem good, I always have the thought deep down that she never really loved me. It’s hard not to attribute any marital problem to that. It also wasn't very reassuring when we had another therapist a year or two later who was pretty quick to suggest divorce.

Am I overthinking this? I realize we're still much better off than many arranged marriages. I think about President Kimball’s famous quote that “almost any good man and any good woman can have happiness and a successful marriage if both are willing to pay the price." (Why did he have to say “almost any”?) In the same talk he says “marriage can be, more an exultant ecstasy than the human mind can conceive.” That just seems so far out of reach for me. 

Do I just settle for the fact that my wife settled for me? Or do I fight for something more? How do I come to terms and stop thinking about it? Do I talk to her? It's come up occasionally but usually in an argument (she never really acknowledges it, but she never denies it either). Do I just endure and hope for the best of the afterlife? That seems like a bleak prospect.

Thanks in advance. This one is my humdinger of the last decade.

OP,  

Get a book called Fireproof.  Read it and apply it.  In the absence of one of the 3 A's (Adultery, Addiction, Abuse) you cannot leave.  You have to think about your children.  You have at least until the last one is 18/out of the house.  

Your wife can learn to love you, and you can love her.  Find a real counselor that doesn't suggest divorce.  Talk to your bishop, he can help.  If your wife doesn't want to go to counseling, then you should go alone.  

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4 hours ago, Dillon said:

it is known that women today are the lead instigators in divorce, 

Again, not buying it. I'm not necessarily saying you're wrong, I've just never beard this. Where did you hear this? My anecdotal experience in my family tells me it's usually the men who cause the marital problems leading to divorce.

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My advice to the OP ( @mormondad ):

Have you seen the film "Fiddler on the Roof"? There is this song-- Tevya is singing to his wife "Do you love me?"  She keeps answering back about everything she does for him, yet as far as I recall she never says yes. I think the viewer is led to believe that Tevya's wife does love him, she just doesn't like to say it. 

I guess my point is that even in arranged marriages, couples often learn to love each other. Don't give up. Love her. Love is an action (another lesson from that song in "Fiddler on the Roof"). Do it. And have hope that she will learn to love you. 

Edited by eddified
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1 hour ago, mdfxdb said:

OP,  

Get a book called Fireproof.  Read it and apply it.  In the absence of one of the 3 A's (Adultery, Addiction, Abuse) you cannot leave.  You have to think about your children.  You have at least until the last one is 18/out of the house.  

Your wife can learn to love you, and you can love her.  Find a real counselor that doesn't suggest divorce.  Talk to your bishop, he can help.  If your wife doesn't want to go to counseling, then you should go alone.  

Truth, I'd be really leery of any counselor that suggests divorce without any evidence of Adultery, Abuse or mental issues.

Fact of the matter it takes three people to make a marriage work, you, your spouse and God. Without any one of those the marriage will be in for some hard times.  If your spouse doesn't want to make it work, there is nothing you can really do about it-except love her and make your marriage priority #1 (above everything except God).

Yes if a marriage is not functioning properly, the children will notice it and it will affect them.  The best thing for young children is to see their mother and father in a secure relationship that pays more attention to the marriage than to them.  But if you are worrying more about how your marriage is affecting your children rather than the marriage itself, it won't work.

And that is the real question, rather than worry about whether she loves you, find out where her marriage ranks on her priority list.  If either one of you does not have your marriage at priority #1 (below God) problems will occur.  Once you find that out, then the question to ask is why is it not @ #1, and how can we get it to be #1.  Do that and the rest will take care of itself.

I'm not sure what is going on w/ Dillon, but ultimately it is the thing that causes the breakdown of every marriage-one person (or both) in the marriage is not willing to make the marriage #1 . . .so it fails.

Some people say, marriage is a piece of cake or easy . . . well for the rest of us mortals, marriage is the hardest thing we will ever do in this life, but also the most rewarding.

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5 hours ago, NeuroTypical said:

Just out of curiosity, is there anyone reading this thread who DOESN'T think Dillon is way off base on a lot of important things?  Anyone saying "yeah, that Dillon is sure raising some good points"?

Well, since you ask...

I was born more than 50 years ago. From the earliest time I can remember, I have had it drilled into my skull that women are intelligent and capable, and that they should be believed. If a woman says she feels some way, you should take that at face value. A woman should be treated just exactly like a man, not condescended to and told that she doesn't really understand her own self.

I remember in my youth reading a public argument being carried on in the national press about women being integrated into the work force and being given "special privileges" -- things like time off for period-related issues and how they wouldn't be held responsible for their actions the same as men. The feminists argued long and loud about how bigoted that was (their word was "chauvanist"). They assured the public that women would never, ever be held to a lesser standard, and that "female matters" would never become a workplace issue or be used as an excuse for bad behavior.

That lasted until the legal system decided that women weren't responsible for criminal activity if suffering from period-related stress.

So here we have a woman who says she never loved her husband. Who are you to say she's wrong? What kind of hubris does it take to say, "No, she's just out of her mind because of her hormones/menstrual cycle/post-baby blues/hysteria issues/female personality"? Are women adults and agents, or are they not?

I say accept the woman at her word. She deserves no less. That doesn't mean get a divorce, game over. It does mean that words mean things, and people who use words must accept responsibility for using those words in something approximating reasonable accuracy. Whatever Dillon's excesses and hyperbole, this appears to be the root of what he's saying, and I agree with him (at least that part of it) 100%.

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17 minutes ago, Vort said:

So here we have a woman who says she never loved her husband.

I say accept the woman at her word. She deserves no less.

I do agree with this.  If the tables were turned and a husband said that he didn't love his wife oh the weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Words matter.  It is a very cruel thing to say something like this to a spouse, regardless of what state one is in.  If one is "out of their mind" so to speak due to whatever influences, it is something that should be repented of and efforts made to ensure that actions demonstrate that the words weren't true. JMHO.

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42 minutes ago, JoCa said:

I do agree with this.  If the tables were turned and a husband said that he didn't love his wife oh the weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Words matter.  It is a very cruel thing to say something like this to a spouse, regardless of what state one is in.  If one is "out of their mind" so to speak due to whatever influences, it is something that should be repented of and efforts made to ensure that actions demonstrate that the words weren't true. JMHO.

Indeed our words do matter... So that one woman needs to be held accountable for saying what she did... but it is a huge leap in to the absurd for posters to claim that "every" woman is like that. 

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7 minutes ago, estradling75 said:

Indeed our words do matter... So that one woman needs to be held accountable for saying what she did... but it is a huge leap in to the absurd for posters to claim that "every" woman is like that. 

I don't agree with Dillon's generalization. But as I recall the thread of conversation, he started out basically saying that the woman should be believed and treated as if she were being truthful, at which point he was set upon and told to quit being so unkind and uncharitable. I'm not naming names or giving a blow-by-blow of what happened, just recounting things as I remember them. Maybe I should go back and skim the topic to see how close my impressions are to what was actually written by all parties.

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2 hours ago, eddified said:

She keeps answering back about everything she does for him, yet as far as I recall she never says yes.

Tevye: Then you love me?
Golde: I suppose I do.
Tevye: And I suppose I love you, too.
Together: It doesn't change a thing, but even so,
After twenty-five years, it's nice to know

Doesn't really change your point.

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Okay, so after collecting Dillon's posts and commenting, I decided that was too long and painful to finish writing, much less read. Suffice it to say that Dillon's original post was off the reservation, but what he has posted since then has not been unreasonable and IMO has included some true and valuable points.

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Thanks all I appreciate the advice and support. 

@Vort I really appreciate your support & encouragement.

@seashmore Thanks for the link, I will check that out!

@Jane_Doe We aren’t in counseling currently, and I do think we are capable of elevating our quality of communication before resorting to more therapy.

@anatess2 That is a great question because I agree it can have many different definitions. I guess I’m referring more to the noun, or the spark, than the verb. I guess want her to love me for who I am and not what I do.

Thanks @Sunday21 for the reassurance ?

Thank you for your kind words @zil. I know I have a lot of work to do.

@Midwest LDS I totally agree, thank you for your support.

@my two cents I have generally accepted it was the ppd talking, but a small part of me just won’t let it go. I agree that I need to though. You are spot on with your perception that her love is more practical and I was hoping for a little more lovey-doviness coming my way. The “what you feed grows” resonates a lot, and I appreciate that advice.

Thank you for the support @MormonGator. Feeling the love.

@Dillon I agree there are some pieces of work out there, and I have found that when I watch too many gold-digger prank videos on youtube that one can fall into the trap of assuming all women are just in it for money or security, but that is a skewed perception. And after having dealt with depression and researching it, I agree with @Jane_Doe 100% that it is “a major clinical condition which warps the suffer's perception and memory, shrouding it in darkness and hopelessness,” and I think it’s too bad we are debating these things here.

@prisonchaplain I have the feeling if she read your response about what she needs-unreciprocated love to feel safe-that she would agree 100%. I appreciate the words, they ring true.

@mdfxdb I remember seeing the movie a while back, I will look into the book. That's actually popped into me head a few times.

@JoCa I think you are right. I need to stop worrying about the wrong things and shift my focus. I appreciate your words and reminder of my priorities.

 

Edited by mormondad
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I think that people's judgements about their motives in the past are very influenced by their current mood. Many people look back on their previous relationships and label them not love but infatuation.

I think current depression can really affect current judgement about a past feeling of love. I have talked to a lot of people who are currently having marriage difficulties who tell me that they never loved their spouse. Well if that's the case, then why did they get married? I remember the wedding in which, they shone with happiness. (I have been a bridesmaid about a million times). I think these unhappy people are misremembering because they believe that love is permanent and makes you happy forever. So 10 years later, I am not happy so I could not have been in love.

i would get out the wedding album. I bet that bride was radiant with happiness. 

Maybe not all Americans marry for love but I bet the bride in this instance did. Why? I bet she came from a social group in which there were choices. Thus, she chose to marry someone she loved.

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7 hours ago, eddified said:
12 hours ago, Dillon said:

it is known that women today are the lead instigators in divorce

Again, not buying it. I'm not necessarily saying you're wrong, I've just never beard this. Where did you hear this? My anecdotal experience in my family tells me it's usually the men who cause the marital problems leading to divorce.

I had quite a bit of coursework relating to divorce in college and women are, or at least were ~10 years ago, more likely to ask for a divorce. Who was most responsible for causing the initial marital problems was not known.

Edited by SilentOne
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8 hours ago, Dillon said:

And lighten up guys I am not being all together serious. But some of you know that women have kinda slipped in the past 20, 30 years.  Kinda slipped a bit.   Lost their way, lost their identity.

You're talking about the 3rd wave feminists.  Do you know that only 18% of today's American women identify as feminists?

So, let's account for your circle of friends.  How many of all the women you personally know have "lost their way, lost their identity" and how many are manipulative money-grabbing users?

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2 hours ago, priesthoodpower said:

Cant wait for another Dillon post to see if NightSG continues his streak of liking every single one of them.

When Vort and Dillon are the only ones making any sense...

Let's look over the other advice here:

Got to wait for abuse: well, in my book, misleading someone for five years about something so important as whether you love them is just about as bad as emotional abuse can get.  I'd honestly prefer to be beaten on a regular basis than find out the person I devoted five years of my life to had been lying about her feelings for me all along, much less spend the next five trying to fix it with no apparent improvement.

Love her and see if that makes her love you back: yeah, that's the ticket.  I'm sure he's spent the last decade being utterly indifferent about her, and just needs to fix that now, rather than doing what he was doing all that time and hoping there's a different result now.  Seems I remember a saying about stuff like that.  Meanwhile, she's given a lovely example of how "fake it until you make it" doesn't work.

Ponder the meaning of love: oh. sure.  I bet every time he's laid awake at night in the last five years, fighting back sobs so as not to wake her, and staring at the dark ceiling, he was mentally searching for previously unexploited strengths of the Old Steinitz Defense, not asking himself and God just what the heck love even means.

Just wait for her to get over the PPD: how much longer?  It's been half a frickin' decade.  If she hasn't gotten past it or sought serious psychiatric help by now, the only thing that might work is involuntary commitment, and that's fairly difficult in most states until she actually and provably tries to kill someone.

Square is my favorite color: well, ok, maybe not exactly that, but I do get the impression about a third of the people commenting here skipped at least half of the OP, making their advice roughly that relevant.

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