Hurricane Harvey Inspires 'Dumping' on Olsteen


prisonchaplain
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Hurricane Harvey dumped water, mud and debris over a large swath of land. The reaction from most was beautiful. Volunteer efforts to help, donations to crisis response charities swell, and prayers go up from most Americans, and people around the world.

Then came a bizarre turn. A few decided to dump their water, mud and debris on one whom they judged to be not charitable enough.  A fellow minister, Greg Locke, blamed Joel Osteen for his church’s slow response in opening up to shelter victims of Harvey.  http://www.christianpost.com/news/pastor-greg-locke-joel-osteen-shamed-opening-lakewood-church-harvey-victims-197349/  Similarly, Seattle commentators “Ron and Don” offered a biting comparison between Olsteen and Mr. Rogers.  http://mynorthwest.com/736400/mister-rogers-would-not-be-happy-with-pastor-osteen/

I get it. Olsteen’s rich, and it’s somehow soothing to our fragile souls to blame the rich, megachurch pastor for his failure to be loving and charitable enough. It’s also ugly. Olsteen explained his church’s response, and folk will either believe him or they won’t. Frankly, I’m troubled that he is having to defend himself in the court of public opinion.

Perhaps LDS folk will get what I am saying better than many of my fellow traditionalists. You know what it is to have some pretty loathsome people condemn you, or your church, for seemingly minor offenses—insisting on the worst possible interpretations.

Bottom line:  I’d love to see how much Olsteen’s critics donated to Harvey relief efforts. Then I’d like to see how they respond the next time their good intentions are subjected to the most negative, cynical interpretations possible.

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Guest MormonGator
9 minutes ago, prisonchaplain said:

Hurricane Harvey dumped water, mud and debris over a large swath of land. The reaction from most was beautiful. Volunteer efforts to help, donations to crisis response charities swell, and prayers go up from most Americans, and people around the world.

Then came a bizarre turn. A few decided to dump their water, mud and debris on one whom they judged to be not charitable enough.  A fellow minister, Greg Locke, blamed Joel Osteen for his church’s slow response in opening up to shelter victims of Harvey.  http://www.christianpost.com/news/pastor-greg-locke-joel-osteen-shamed-opening-lakewood-church-harvey-victims-197349/  Similarly, Seattle commentators “Ron and Don” offered a biting comparison between Olsteen and Mr. Rogers.  http://mynorthwest.com/736400/mister-rogers-would-not-be-happy-with-pastor-osteen/

I get it. Olsteen’s rich, and it’s somehow soothing to our fragile souls to blame the rich, megachurch pastor for his failure to be loving and charitable enough. It’s also ugly. Olsteen explained his church’s response, and folk will either believe him or they won’t. Frankly, I’m troubled that he is having to defend himself in the court of public opinion.

Perhaps LDS folk will get what I am saying better than many of my fellow traditionalists. You know what it is to have some pretty loathsome people condemn you, or your church, for seemingly minor offenses—insisting on the worst possible interpretations.

Bottom line:  I’d love to see how much Olsteen’s critics donated to Harvey relief efforts. Then I’d like to see how they respond the next time their good intentions are subjected to the most negative, cynical interpretations possible.

I agree with you @prisonchaplain, more or less. That said, I've been a critic of him in the past and I'll be a critic of him in the future. 

First off, yes, I did donate to several charities. The Red Cross being one of them, the ASPCA being another.  One of my dearest friends is a Lutheran and he asked me to donate to his church relief fund. I'm sure if I asked him to donate to an LDS one-he'd do it no doubt. 

Him not opening up the church is a problem. A lot of people in Houston are angry with him. Sure, it might be "prone to being flooded" but he should have communicated that better. Perhaps he could have opened up his personal checkbook and paid for some refugees to go to a hotel or travel for a night or too. Several business people in the area did that. 

I think he's more of a "inspirational speaker" rather than a "pastor". He doesn't talk about sin or redemption (or, he didn't the last time I paid attention to him. Maybe he's changed). It seems like it's all fluff, marshmallows and candy with him. Nothing fulfilling.  He never makes you feel guilty about sins you've committed. He doesn't ask much of you. He's no Billy Graham, that's for sure. 

Just my thoughts.  

Edited by MormonGator
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@MormonGator, I thought about expressing my reservations about Osteen''s ministry, but realized that it just was not appropriate in this context. If his responses were hesitant, his communication poor, etc. that's between him, his church, God, and perhaps the locals. It's not right, imho, when people are still suffering, to cast criticism upon Osteen. In the worst case scenario, why would Osteen intentionally not open his church up? What did he have to gain by not doing so? Was he afraid the rescued would damage the facilities? Even so, he did open up the church. Let the critics wait until this episode passes, and then go back to opposing his light teachings, and his extravagant lifestyle. I'm especially disappointed in the minister who threw mud. The guy admits he's critic, and I no longer care about his likely-legitimate complaints about Osteen's prosperity theology.  He lost credibility when he used this crisis to try and make a fellow minister look bad. 

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Just now, prisonchaplain said:

@MormonGator, I thought about expressing my reservations about Osteen''s ministry, but realized that it just was not appropriate in this context. If his responses were hesitant, his communication poor, etc. that's between him, his church, God, and perhaps the locals. It's not right, imho, when people are still suffering, to cast criticism upon Osteen. In the worst case scenario, why would Osteen intentionally not open his church up? What did he have to gain by not doing so? Was he afraid the rescued would damage the facilities? Even so, he did open up the church. Let the critics wait until this episode passes, and then go back to opposing his light teachings, and his extravagant lifestyle. I'm especially disappointed in the minister who threw mud. The guy admits he's critic, and I no longer care about his likely-legitimate complaints about Osteen's prosperity theology.  He lost credibility when he used this crisis to try and make a fellow minister look bad. 

I know what you mean, but Osteen is at the very least guilty of not being savvy enough to realize that with his very nice lifestyle and large influence on his flock, he needed to behave in such a way not to attract the negative attention. So I think at the very least he's guilty of bad judgement and poor public relation skills. 

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I want to tread lightly on Osteen--partly because he's been (rhetorically) charitable to Mormons in the past; and partly because I can imagine scenarios where, had the Houston temple not flooded, Mormons would be taking a lot of flak right now for not throwing its doors open as a shelter.  And (weaselly lawyer analysis here) if Lakewood Church were to take in refugees and then became Superdome 2.0, I imagine Osteen's liability exposure would be horrendous.

I think the complicating factor here is Osteen's reputation for preaching a "prosperity gospel".  I suspect it's more nuanced than Osteen's detractors would have us believe; and maybe Osteen's hasn't gotten a fair shake.  But if you skate too close to the "poor people get what they deserve and deserve what they get" line, people are going to look mighty closely at how you treat the poor and destitute--especially in times of regional/national calamity.

Edited by Just_A_Guy
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I could speculate on Osteen's savvy in this instance, but I'm guessing he'd best me 90% of the time.  :cool:  @Just_A_Guy offers a spot-on legal analysis, as well as proffering a scenario that rings true. As for Osteen's theology, my understanding is that he's not an over-the-top prosperity preacher who blames the poor. Those that criticize him do so because he refuses to discuss difficult, or controversial issues. He insists that God has called him to lift up and not tear down.

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The bigger problem is that even if you are absolutely right PC (And I think you are certainly more right than wrong) right now thousands and thousands of people are very upset with the man he is going through a PR nightmare. 

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I have little sympathy for people who criticize other people for not being charitable enough, or not charitable in the right way.

This dawned on me when I learned about the folks who criticized Mother Theresa, saying she should have done this or that with her "political power", or she should have organized her charitable efforts differently.  The lady owned two frocks, a pair of shoes, and a bucket when she died for pete's sake - she literally gave all she had to the poor, and it wasn't good enough for some people. 

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To be blunt:  How much of the anger against Osteen and his church is because he truly refused charity? How much is because he is a poor communicator? Then, how much is because his enemies were quick to spread the most unkind interpretations of the pastor and church's responses possible? IMHO, some of the critics will have much more to answer for to God then Osteen will (concerning this instance).

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An old school friend of mine is very religious.  He is also engaged to his (male) fiancé, and I often see his Facebook posts on theological discussions where the Christian culture wars are in full tilt.  I've also started following Peter Enns of late, and the discussions about his writings. 

And, @prisonchaplain, I hope you won't take this pejoratively; but when I see the rifts and divisions and outright wars within modern American Protestantism; suddenly our own little intra-Mormon dramas with Ordain Women, Snufferism, and so on seem a lot smaller.  I get the sense that something massive is afoot amongst you guys, with very few institutional mechanisms in place that are capable of keeping it in check.

It's like Chamberlain, after driving the Confederates from Little Round Top, looking north; and suddenly realizing that beyond his own corner of the battlefield, fights have been raging all along the one-mile line at Gettysburg for the better part of the day.

Edited by Just_A_Guy
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54 minutes ago, prisonchaplain said:

To be blunt:  How much of the anger against Osteen and his church is because he truly refused charity? How much is because he is a poor communicator? Then, how much is because his enemies were quick to spread the most unkind interpretations of the pastor and church's responses possible? IMHO, some of the critics will have much more to answer for to God then Osteen will (concerning this instance).

As no fan of Olsteen, I nevertheless agree. The press coverage certainly portrays this as Olsteen protecting "his" property and acting only to save face -- but we all know how reliable the news media are.

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I agree with @prisonchaplain. While I certainly disagree with much of what Osteen says theologically, I just have a hard time throwing stones at people who don't behave the way I think they should from my comfy armchair. Osteen, whatever his faults, just doesn't seem like the kind of guy who would let poor people suffer on purpose and I don't approve of the attacks on him about Houston.

Edited by Midwest LDS
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3 hours ago, prisonchaplain said:

To be blunt:  How much of the anger against Osteen and his church is because he truly refused charity? How much is because he is a poor communicator? Then, how much is because his enemies were quick to spread the most unkind interpretations of the pastor and church's responses possible? IMHO, some of the critics will have much more to answer for to God then Osteen will (concerning this instance).

My impression on this is that this is because Olsteen is worth $40M.  Plain envy, I think.

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1 hour ago, anatess2 said:

My impression on this is that this is because Olsteen is worth $40M.  Plain envy, I think.

I think you're on to something there. How many people throwing stones at Osteen are doing so because they think they would behave differently than he is if they shared his financial status? I'll admit, I may have liked a few tweets calling him out, but points brought up here have shown me things I hadn't considered. I was definitely coming from a place of "If I had as many nickels as he had, I'd be giving more of them to Houston."

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1 hour ago, seashmore said:

I think you're on to something there. How many people throwing stones at Osteen are doing so because they think they would behave differently than he is if they shared his financial status? I'll admit, I may have liked a few tweets calling him out, but points brought up here have shown me things I hadn't considered. I was definitely coming from a place of "If I had as many nickels as he had, I'd be giving more of them to Houston."

Well, the Filipinos were not happy that Pacquiao gave him a luxury plane.

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