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[The Folk Prophet]

Technically, all we have is given us from the Lord and belongs to Him. So if we're technically defining ownership...it gets a bit useless quite quickly. The principle of tithing is based on the fact that all belongs to the Lord, but He only requires 10% back. It's not about technically defining ownership but more about perception. That is to say, the child who is given an allowance, or the like, perceives an increase to what they themselves own. 

Edited September 8, 2017 by The Folk Prophet

[JohnsonJones]

7 minutes ago, Vort said:

So, then, my 90-year-old self ought to expect to tithe the value of the rent and food that my children provide me?

That could be debatable...are you in the household and are you the head of it?  It probably also depends on your monetary situation (for example, if we get technical, the US govt. technically does not want SS benefits, welfare, or other benefits being paid to an LDS church as they are to be utilized for the support of the individual receiving them, but I know full well people tithe on them and I would do the same in their situation...soooo....).

A family unit that is together, has their tithing paid on their income.  However, if you are separate from that household, you would pay tithing on what your increase for your household/family is.

When family is in different households, they count as different units.  When we do tithing settlement, we can do it by family member, but we also do it by household/family in the records.  If you are listed on a separate record (and in many instances, that means you are in an entirely different ward) you should be the one responsible for your own household...not your father and your mother.

It is like asking, once you are an adult and have your own family...do you not pay tithing because your father is still alive?

Look at it like taxes.  Your children normally are not taxed on any allowances or room and board their mother and father provide for them, but they ARE taxed on any other income they bring in.  When they go on to have their own household though, or, even when they become adults and have enough interest coming in their bank accounts, they are taxed upon their own increase.

I don't think the LDS church is that stringent as the National governments, but a similar idea applies.  On YOUR income, even if it is a gift from your mother and father, when in your own household or you are the head of it, you should be paying tithing on all your increase.

Adding: In general, the way to see it is that each family unit pays tithing on their increase, which is normally regarded in monetary increase these days, rather than how it was in previous times.  I've heard of it, but I don't know how I'd handle being paid in chickens for example.

Edited September 8, 2017 by JohnsonJones

[Vort]

4 minutes ago, JohnsonJones said:

A family unit that is together, has their tithing paid on their income.  However, if you are separate from that household, you would pay tithing on what your increase for your household/family is.

Ah. So my correct tithing amount and subsequent spiritual welfare depend on a careful, narrow definition of household.

6 minutes ago, JohnsonJones said:

Look at it like taxes.

Exactly what I think we should avoid.

[Grunt]

This is why tithing as the LDS understands it gives me some pause.  Many people say it's an individual thing between you and God.  Many say you pray on it and do what you find to be right. At the end of the day, everyone seems to believe they are right and are judgmental of everyone else.

 

Also, what does "we aren't supposed to go beyond our bounds" mean?

[anatess2]

11 minutes ago, Grunt said:

This is why tithing as the LDS understands it gives me some pause.  Many people say it's an individual thing between you and God.  Many say you pray on it and do what you find to be right. At the end of the day, everyone seems to believe they are right and are judgmental of everyone else.

 

Also, what does "we aren't supposed to go beyond our bounds" mean?

Not really.  Tithing is just another one of those "teach them correct principles and leave them to govern themselves" type of teachings in the Church so we like to bang each other over the application of the correct principles in modern times.

But, in the end, what constitutes your tithe is between you and God.  The Bishop is there to guide you in the application of the correct principle for your specific circumstance.  But Bishops do not call on your CPA or ask for your 1040's to make sure you are paying the tithe correctly.  It is simply that you, in your heart, is seeking the guidance of the Holy Ghost and secure in the knowledge that you are applying the principle correctly in your life.  When there's some doubt in your heart that you are tithing correctly, the Bishop can help you clear that doubt until your heart is at peace.  Nothing @Vort nor @JohnsonJones says here will matter.

Edited September 8, 2017 by anatess2

[Jane_Doe]

1 hour ago, Grunt said:

This is why tithing as the LDS understands it gives me some pause.  Many people say it's an individual thing between you and God.  Many say you pray on it and do what you find to be right. At the end of the day, everyone seems to believe they are right and are judgmental of everyone else.

Honestly I think most people in practice are pretty ok with letting other people do there thing.  This is partially because it's not a usual topic of conversation.  

[zil]

As @Jane_Doe said, you're seeing an anomaly.  People on a forum bring up tithing and an issue surfaces, such as whether children should pay tithing when receiving an allowance from their parents who have already paid tithing on the money used to pay the allowance.  If someone asks what everyone thinks of this, of course they'll get a variety of answers and possibly an argument or two.  The same might happen in another scenario where someone explicitly asks whether one should pay tithing on this or that, but really, only if someone asks.  I've never heard someone get up and give a talk and try to outline their version of detailed tithing rules, or call people to repentance for not tithing on their gross or whatever.  I've never heard this kind of debate in a Sunday School class.  That's not to say it doesn't happen (apparently some people will come to blows over who gets to sit in which pew), but I personally haven't seen it and I suspect it's not the norm.

[Jane_Doe]

I think the fact that @JohnsonJones, who I believe has been LDS for years (if not his entire life) and no idea that some people don't pay tithing on gifts is pretty good indicator of how much we LDS folks usually talk about this.

[Grunt]

I would probably have my children tithe their allowance even if I'd tithed on it and perhaps gifts too.  Not because I think they should, but because I think there are few opportunities to teach this lesson since they don't work and I provide all their needs.    YMMV

Edited September 8, 2017 by Grunt

[zil]

6 minutes ago, Grunt said:

I would probably have my children tithe their allowance even if I'd tithed on it and perhaps gifts too.  Not because I think they should, but because I think there are few opportunities to teach this lesson since they don't work and I provide all their needs.    YMMV

I've said it elsewhere (sorry if it was in this thread, I can't remember), but: when we were very little (like 5-ish), before we had anything like an allowance, my parents would give each of us a dime on fast Sunday and we would put it in a tithing envelope and give it to the bishop.  My brothers and I remember this, my parents do not.  When we got older and were given an allowance, we were taught to budget, including 10% of the allowance going to tithing.  For me, at least, when I got older, I did not need to think about whether to pay tithing, it did not seem like a sacrifice or challenge, it was just what one does.  I'm grateful for that lesson.  I learned the lesson of sacrifice when I realized my parents weren't paying for my food any more and therefore, I should be the one paying fast offerings.

[Vort]

1 hour ago, anatess2 said:

Nothing @Vort nor @JohnsonJones says here will matter.

True, that.

[Anddenex]

5 hours ago, JohnsonJones said:

Some of this thread is news to me.  I actually DO pay tithing on gift money.  I have no idea why someone would not.  If it is increase, you pay tithing on it.

Now, if you are in your parents house, that money has already been tithed.

But if I receive a gift from my relatives (they are definitely not LDS) and since I'm not in their household, even if they were, I pay tithing on it.

Am I to understand from this thread that there are adults that do not pay tithing on gifts?

I can understand that, especially on expensive gifts...but what if the gift was money...would you pay tithing on that or not?

We aren't supposed to go beyond our bounds, and tithing is a deeply personal decision in many cases.  As long as someone says that they are a full tithe payer, I'll accept that.  However, I am surprised at the indications that people say they don't pay tithing on gifts...or more specifically, gifts that are money.  Would not a monetary gift count as a sort of income?

Once again, if in an interview, I'd never go into that much depth unless someone really wanted to go into it and brought it up themselves, but my counsel probably would be, if it was in the form of money, I personally, would tithe on it (but even then, wouldn't hold them up to that standard, but let them decide for themselves on what they consider a full tithe payer unless it was blatant they were not doing so).

Well, I don't think there is anything wrong with paying tithing on "gift" monies if a person feels this keeps they good with the Lord. I also don't think there is anything wrong with not paying tithing on "gift" monies either.  The term "gift" is something I have not earned, but is given by the kindness and generosity of another human being.

Is there a difference between "gifting" someone monies to pay for their car, and a birthday gift? Personally, I think not in principle. I wouldn't expect an individual to pay tithing on "gifted" monies that is going to their rent, their car, food, etc... I personally wouldn't expect them to pay me back either.

My personal thoughts, if you work for the money -- pay tithing -- as that is an increase of sowing and reaping. If the money, or anything material, is a "gift" that is a personal choice. A person who does pay tithing on "gifted" monies is not self-righteous either. This is still a good thing, and all things good come from God.

[priesthoodpower]

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Edited August 10, 2020 by priesthoodpower