My husband's obsession with our family being perceived as perfect.

[Jane_Doe]

1 minute ago, JoCa said:

I understand it's something you tell yourself to make yourself feel better.  That's great.

But it's wrong. Not it's not a universal truth as there are always exceptions.  However, the ideal is for children to be raised in a home with both mother and father united together in spirit (i.e. attending the same church/religion) and on the same page.

It wouldn't be the ideal if it wasn't better.

Put it this way,  100 families with both parents attending church together.  I will absolutely pit the children of those 100 parents with both parents attending church against children of 100 parents with only 1 parent attending church.  

Want to take a bet on which group of children will live better lives?

I think this is something you and I are just going to have to respectfully disagree upon.

[JoCa]

1 minute ago, Jane_Doe said:

I think this is something you and I are just going to have to respectfully disagree upon.

?? So having two parents attending the same religion together is not the ideal?

[JoCa]

2 hours ago, JKing said:

I taught my kids that they can have free will and their dad taught them about church and religion. They made the choice, we didn't make it for them. We have 2 children who are still very active in the church one of whom serving a mission. My husband couldn't force them to join and I wouldn't tell them what to do.  

Sounds exactly right. 50% of the marriage is religious 50% of the marriage is not religious.  40% of the offspring have made bad moral decisions (probably one more to go to bump it up some more).

I think you've gotten exactly what you've sown.

[Jane_Doe]

6 minutes ago, JoCa said:

?? So having two parents attending the same religion together is not the ideal?

 

4 minutes ago, JoCa said:

Sounds exactly right. 50% of the marriage is religious 50% of the marriage is not religious.  40% of the offspring have made bad moral decisions (probably one more to go to bump it up some more).

I think you've gotten exactly what you've sown.

I have mega problem with people stereotyping and blaming others.  

@JKing  obviously loves her kids and her husband, and from the sound of it has been remarkable in her support for them.  Besides her obvious supporting kids/husband on attending church all these years, and supporting the kid on a mission (a super hard time even for LDS moms), her very presence here shows her love.  When faced with a difficulty, she did not condemn her husband or his LDS faith.  Rather, she came here, seeking truthful answers for herself and support, so she can better understand and love her husband.  She is to be absolutely applauded and given the support she so kindly asked for.  We should welcome her in love, not condemn her. 

[JoCa]

32 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

 

I have mega problem with people stereotyping and blaming others.  

@JKing  obviously loves her kids and her husband, and from the sound of it has been remarkable in her support for them.  Besides her obvious supporting kids/husband on attending church all these years, and supporting the kid on a mission (a super hard time even for LDS moms), her very presence here shows her love.  When faced with a difficulty, she did not condemn her husband or his LDS faith.  Rather, she came here, seeking truthful answers for herself and support, so she can better understand and love her husband.  She is to be absolutely applauded and given the support she so kindly asked for.  We should welcome her in love, not condemn her. 

Umm, not really.  

"However, he is obsessed with having a perfect family and as our kids have gotten older I feel his concern is not for them but for how he is perceived at church or by fellow mormons."

Is that not condemnation of her husband when faced with a difficulty?  Her post is about griping about her husband who (according to her) is upset b/c they aren't the perfect family.  I would hardly call that supporting her husband nor supporting her husbands faith.

I know people have problems with stereotypes, but they exist for a reason . . .b/c in general they are true!! Otherwise they wouldn't exist. 

I'm not blaming her for her children's choices, I stated in my 1st post their choices are their choices, they made them-they need to lie in the bed they made.  If one is going to start griping about how they perceive their husband is failing at being a proper parent, it might be good to do a little soul-searching. 

I am merely stating, i.e as an observation not as a condemnation, that it is pretty obvious how these children came to make these improper moral decisions.  This isn't rocket science, if a child is being pulled (by teachings) in two directions, one direction of religion and another direction of non-religion-it should come as no surprise when a significant portion of children raised in this environment opt to go the non-religious route.

If one wants to take that as a condemnation-fine not my problem; I'm stating an observation, a fact not a condemnation.  We reap what we sow.  Don't blame me for stating the obvious-if you don't want to reap these types of scenarios then don't sow them.  Pretty simple.

[Dillon]

On 9/8/2017 at 4:36 PM, anatess2 said:

I call out your misogyny and hope you go see a therapist.

please explain. Have you ever heard of a young girl wearing clothes that look like she is going to church but she leaves the house and changes into a mini skirt and and a top that just does cover what its has to? Have you ever heard of a young girl sneaking out the window after her parents are asleep. Have you never heard of a girl that tells her parents she is going to a sleep over but goes to a party with friends instead? I dont care how a daughter is raised, at some point in her life she is going to make her own decisions. Do you know who the wildest girls were when I was in school, preachers daughters. Teens and teen girls sometimes rebel, oh can you believe that? In my experience teen girls , even Mormon teens,  that come from good homes, strict parents, are the most likely to rebel and "go wild" at some point in their lives. So no I didnt have contempt or prejudice  for all those girls I was out with late on a Friday night, when they told their parents they were ate a slumber party, I am simply stating what the ones I was out with told their parents. So you are suggesting I go see a therapist because I shared some experiences? Or are you just upset that I shared those experiences because it distorts this pure and innocent perspective that you have for young adult females?

[anatess2]

4 minutes ago, Dillon said:

please explain. Have you ever heard of a young girl wearing clothes that look like she is going to church but she leaves the house and changes into a mini skirt and and a top that just does cover what its has to? Have you ever heard of a young girl sneaking out the window after her parents are asleep. Have you never heard of a girl that tells her parents she is going to a sleep over but goes to a party with friends instead? I dont care how a daughter is raised, at some point in her life she is going to make her own decisions. Do you know who the wildest girls were when I was in school, preachers daughters. Teens and teen girls sometimes rebel, oh can you believe that? In my experience teen girls , even Mormon teens,  that come from good homes, strict parents, are the most likely to rebel and "go wild" at some point in their lives. So no I didnt have contempt or prejudice  for all those girls I was out with late on a Friday night, when they told their parents they were ate a slumber party, I am simply stating what the ones I was out with told their parents. So you are suggesting I go see a therapist because I shared some experiences? Or are you just upset that I shared those experiences because it distorts this pure and innocent perspective that you have for young adult females?

You go see a therapist because you have a low opinion of girls.  The girls in your experience are the girls portrayed in some movies.  Girls in real life are not as crazy as you make them sound.  Are there crazy ones?  Yes.  Just like there are crazy boys, crazy moms, crazy dads, crazy Whites, crazy Blacks, crazy Asians.... it's a statistical minority.  And chances are, crazy teens grow out of it when they mature.  But you always point to those girls and think all girls do those things.  You point at women and talk about how bad they are too.  If that's all the experience you've had with girls and women, you might want to take a look AT YOU and figure out WHY these are all the girls that want to have anything to do with you.  Because... most men have nice experiences with majority of the women in their lives.  That's why they end up getting married.

See a therapist.

Edited September 12, 2017 by anatess2

[Jane_Doe]

11 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

You go see a therapist because you have a low opinion of girls.  The girls in your experience are the girls portrayed in some movies.  Girls in real life are not as crazy as you make them sound.  Are there crazy ones?  Yes.  Just like there are crazy boys, crazy moms, crazy dads, crazy Whites, crazy Blacks, crazy Asians.... it's a statistical minority.  And chances are, crazy teens grow out of it when they mature.  But you always point to those girls and think all girls do those things.  You point at women and talk about how bad they are too.  If that's all the experience you've had with girls and women, you might want to take a look AT YOU and figure out WHY these are all the girls that want to have anything to do with you.  Because... most men have nice experiences with majority of the women in their lives.  That's why they end up getting married.

See a therapist.

I'll echo this too.

@Dillon, on this forum you are displayed a very destructive and unrealistic bias of women.  No one here has denied that there are so crazies out there, but you seem to view that 0.1% as the 100%.  This is simply not reality.  Your unrealistic view is toxic to yourself and any relationship you might have.  It is particularly lethal to any prospects you might have of eventual marriage sealing and exhalation.  Please, see a therapist to help you with the ailment that you might eventually be whole.

[zil]

31 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

It is particularly lethal to any prospects you might have of eventual marriage sealing and exhalation.

He's already stated somewhere that he's married.

[anatess2]

Just now, zil said:

He's already stated somewhere that he's married.

To a gold-digger?

[Jane_Doe]

Just now, zil said:

He's already stated somewhere that he's married.

My statement still stands.  The eternalness of sealings are dependent on treating each spouse with pure Christ-like love.  

[zil]

4 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

My statement still stands.  The eternalness of sealings are dependent on treating each spouse with pure Christ-like love.  

Not disagreeing, just an FYI.  I'm refraining mightily from further comment on the topic.

[anatess2]

On 9/8/2017 at 11:11 PM, JoCa said:

Umm, not really.  

"However, he is obsessed with having a perfect family and as our kids have gotten older I feel his concern is not for them but for how he is perceived at church or by fellow mormons."

Is that not condemnation of her husband when faced with a difficulty?  Her post is about griping about her husband who (according to her) is upset b/c they aren't the perfect family.  I would hardly call that supporting her husband nor supporting her husbands faith.

I know people have problems with stereotypes, but they exist for a reason . . .b/c in general they are true!! Otherwise they wouldn't exist. 

I'm not blaming her for her children's choices, I stated in my 1st post their choices are their choices, they made them-they need to lie in the bed they made.  If one is going to start griping about how they perceive their husband is failing at being a proper parent, it might be good to do a little soul-searching. 

I am merely stating, i.e as an observation not as a condemnation, that it is pretty obvious how these children came to make these improper moral decisions.  This isn't rocket science, if a child is being pulled (by teachings) in two directions, one direction of religion and another direction of non-religion-it should come as no surprise when a significant portion of children raised in this environment opt to go the non-religious route.

If one wants to take that as a condemnation-fine not my problem; I'm stating an observation, a fact not a condemnation.  We reap what we sow.  Don't blame me for stating the obvious-if you don't want to reap these types of scenarios then don't sow them.  Pretty simple.

No, it's not pretty obvious.  The error in your conclusion is the assumption that just because one is not an LDS-member that one is not teaching Christ-like teachings.  One cannot pull such conclusion from the OP.  The only way you can pull this conclusion is from generalization... you know, the same thing we constantly hammer Dillon not to do.

[Dillon]

4 hours ago, Jane_Doe said:

I'll echo this too.

@Dillon, on this forum you are displayed a very destructive and unrealistic bias of women.  No one here has denied that there are so crazies out there, but you seem to view that 0.1% as the 100%.  This is simply not reality.  Your unrealistic view is toxic to yourself and any relationship you might have.  It is particularly lethal to any prospects you might have of eventual marriage sealing and exhalation.  Please, see a therapist to help you with the ailment that you might eventually be whole.

Let me see if I have this correct,  since I pointed out that teenage girls (and boys for that matter) sometimes make poor decisions I need to go see a therapists? And let me correct your statistic, it is alot more than .1 % of teenagers making poor decisions. And since I made the comment that sometimes girls sneak out of the house and come home pregnant that means that it could be lethal to my marriage sealing and exhalation.  Yes I am married, do I talk about the same things to her like I comment on here, I most certainly do not, I may have an opinion on a lot of things but I am not stupid either, there are just some opinions better left for message forums.

[Jane_Doe]

1 minute ago, Dillon said:

Let me see if I have this correct,  since I pointed out that teenage girls (and boys for that matter) sometimes make poor decisions I need to go see a therapists? And let me correct your statistic, it is alot more than .1 % of teenagers making poor decisions. And since I made the comment that sometimes girls sneak out of the house and come home pregnant that means that it could be lethal to my marriage sealing and exhalation.  Yes I am married, do I talk about the same things to her like I comment on here, I most certainly do not, I may have an opinion on a lot of things but I am not stupid either, there are just some opinions better left for message forums.

You continually point out the perceived flaws of women (aka every single woman-- including your wife) and every single woman (including you wife) does a bunch of horrible stuff.  You do not seem to understand the difference between 1 person doing something versus an entire category of people doing something.  Yes, you need therapy.  

 

[BeccaKirstyn]

17 hours ago, Dillon said:

  Yes I am married, do I talk about the same things to her like I comment on here, I most certainly do not, I may have an opinion on a lot of things but I am not stupid either, there are just some opinions better left for message forums.

Or maybe there are some opinions (like yours concerning women, relationships, dating, marriage, etc.) that are better left not said. 

[Guest MormonGator]

12 minutes ago, BeccaKirstyn said:

Or maybe there are some opinions (like yours concerning women, relationships, dating, marriage, etc.) that are better left not said. 

Thank you! 

The truth is that while everyone is entitled to their opinion, not all opinions are to be taken seriously. 

[NightSG]

On 9/8/2017 at 10:11 PM, JoCa said:

I would hardly call that supporting her husband nor supporting her husbands faith.

And has he supported her faith?  From her post, it sounds like the marriage is something of a factor in her not attending church anymore.

[seashmore]

On September 7, 2017 at 3:42 PM, JKing said:

Hi, 

I have been married to a mormon man for 23 years now and we have 5 children, I myself am a baptist although I very rarely attend church at all now. There are so many things I love about my husbands faith and the impact it has on our family, I love when he gives the kids blessings when they are nervous or unwell, I love how he sits with them and discusses how they are doing and that we all pray together. However, he is obsessed with having a perfect family and as our kids have gotten older I feel his concern is not for them but for how he is perceived at church or by fellow mormons. When our son decided to stop going to church my husband was so ashamed of our son and there was no real concern of how big a decision it was and that our son may be suffering. I even feel there was little care for our son's salvation and it was mainly my husband worried about people viewing him as a bad father. About, 4 months ago our 18 year old daughter told us she was pregnant and whilst I was heart broken I was just full of concern for her and the baby.  My husband was just preoccupied with being ashamed of her and how he would be perceived as a bad father, he was mad but there was no concern for our daughter or the baby.  He was even like it when our kids were young if they did something bad at church he would be a lot more angry than if they did it at home or at school. I am asking you is there in the mormon faith or culture a shaming for parents when their children go against the church? Or even when they misbehave? If so why ? Does your husband/ wife want to be perceived as perfect and having a perfect family ? 

 

This article by an apostle may help you help your husband understand that:

1. There ought to be no shame felt by you for the sins of your children. 

2. Continuing to show them love and a good example will be much better at motivating them to make better choices than shaming them will.

You can find many others by going to lds.org and using the search term "wayward children."

One of my favorite quotes from the prophet George Albert Smith is this. Copy it out and tape it to your bathroom mirror or wherever you both can see it.

Quote

“I would not seek to force people to live up to my ideals but rather love them into doing the thing that is right."

Good luck with this, and being a grandma! For what it's worth (and you can tell your husband this), let me tell you about one of the counselors in my bishopric. At the beginning of the summer, his two oldest daughters (total of 8 kids) both came home to stay. Both were pregnant, but only one was married. Both babies were born within a month of each other, and I didn't notice one child (or grandchild) seeming to be more loved than the other. Now, I don't know the whole story, but my point is he was (and is) not ashamed of either daughter or grandchild. And I guarantee you that no one in our ward thinks any less of him or his family because of it.

[skippy740]

Let's talk about church culture:  We take pride (yes, there's that word) in being a service church capable of doing great things for others.  (I personally don't like service "being done for me" and perhaps we can blame the culture of doing good to others, but not wanting to be in a situation where we would also have to accept such service ourselves.... but I digress.)

There is a "church path" for our youth:  You go to primary (for the children). Young men get the priesthood at age 12.  They go on missions at age 18.  They return and attend BYU.  Then they marry in the temple.  This is "the path" for all those who have "followed the path".

Deviation causes concern by those who observe the deviation and ask "what happened?"  This is well-meaning, but it happens.  Just ask the parent of any missionary who came home too soon from their mission, as it can be ASSUMED (we know what that word means) what reason it could take for a missionary to return home too soon.

Back when I was 19, I was not ready to serve a mission (as was the traditional age at the time).  And it seemed that EVERYONE "got involved" and pestered me and my parents about it.  Why?  Because I wasn't following "the path".  I finally decided to serve at age 21.

Your husband may feel some embarrassment to "have to explain" what happened.  Yes, there's a bit of family honor at stake here and some personal embarrassment.  Why?  Because we have "the path" and we feel embarrassed when OUR family deviated from "the path".

No, I don't have a solution, only a possible explanation.

Edited September 16, 2017 by skippy740

[Guest MormonGator]

I think it's important to remember that no family is perfect and sometimes (key word, sometimes) the most "perfect" looking families on the outside are the most dysfunctional. You truly never know what happens behind closed doors. 

[Bini]

Is there a “culture” of this? Yes, in my experience, and I’ve lived inside Utah and outside Utah, even overseas. I have seen this issue of parents feeling guilt and shaming kids who seemingly go astray within the church all over the place. My best advice, tell him to check himself, and remind him that your children are adults and capable of making their own life decisions. He isn’t going to love or even like everything they choose to do. 

Edited May 26, 2018 by Bini

[JKing]

I almost forgot about this post. 

 

UPDATE: 

My husband and I have the cutest grandson who is 6 months old. My husband is inseparable from our grandson, he even arranged a naming blessing thing. I was wrong to be concerned that my husband would be ashamed of our grandchild. 

[JKing]

On 9/14/2017 at 6:16 AM, NightSG said:

And has he supported her faith?  From her post, it sounds like the marriage is something of a factor in her not attending church anymore.

Thank you