Dogs in Restaurants


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7 hours ago, Jeremy A said:

Actually, service animals are only horses and dogs. Cats aren't on the list. If there's a no pet policy, those therapy or companion animals do not matter. They will be considered pets, regardless. The owner can gripe all they want.

 

Not entirely true:

https://www.nsarco.com/faq.html

The only animals allowed to serve as service animals are any breed of dog and, in some cases, miniature horses. With respect to Emotional Support Animals, there are no species or breed restictions. Consequently, cats, rabbits, miniature pigs, ferrets, birds, etc. may be ESAs.

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36 minutes ago, pam said:

Not entirely true:

https://www.nsarco.com/faq.html

The only animals allowed to serve as service animals are any breed of dog and, in some cases, miniature horses. With respect to Emotional Support Animals, there are no species or breed restictions. Consequently, cats, rabbits, miniature pigs, ferrets, birds, etc. may be ESAs.

However, most states don't exempt ESAs, since there are no standardized training requirements for them, either.

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I was at a Subway once and a person had their cat and sat the cat right on the counter where they place the completed food for the customer.  And then one of the employees petted the cat and then went back to making sandwiches.  One of many, many, many, reasons I won't eat at Subway.  I've seen too many things working retail with a Subway in the same building.  I realize that many things happen at many food establishments but when you see so many infractions at just one Subway, it sours you for life.

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2 minutes ago, NightSG said:

However, most states don't exempt ESAs, since there are no standardized training requirements for them, either.

I realize that.  I was just pointing out that it's not only dogs and miniature horses that would be considered.  Other animals are considered if for emotional support.

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12 hours ago, Jeremy A said:

Actually, service animals are only horses and dogs. Cats aren't on the list. If there's a no pet policy, those therapy or companion animals do not matter. They will be considered pets, regardless. The owner can gripe all they want.

 

5 hours ago, pam said:

Not entirely true:

https://www.nsarco.com/faq.html

The only animals allowed to serve as service animals are any breed of dog and, in some cases, miniature horses. With respect to Emotional Support Animals, there are no species or breed restictions. Consequently, cats, rabbits, miniature pigs, ferrets, birds, etc. may be ESAs.

An acquaintance  of mine got a cat approved as an ESA.  I don't think she takes it to the store though, :)  the ESA status is so that her apartment complex would allow the cat.  This has been very healthy for her and her children.  

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Full disclosure: Just a few weeks ago, my wife and daughters took chickens to a public park.  Like, on leashes.  (No, this is not the latest thing, this is just our thing.) 

That said, we don't take any animals into buildings or big crowds of people or anything like that.  The exception being PetSmart, where that sort of deviant behavior is expected and welcome.

Edited by NeuroTypical
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13 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

Full disclosure: Just a few weeks ago, my wife and daughters took chickens to a public park.  Like, on leashes.  (No, this is not the latest thing, this is just our thing.) 

That said, we don't take any animals into buildings or big crowds of people or anything like that.  The exception being PetSmart, where that sort of deviant behavior is expected and welcome.

My chickens wear diapers when going to public places (like the vet).

In PetSmart, they say Pets Welcome - and bring your owners too.  So, I think the pets are supposed to be the ones shopping.  Deviant on overdrive.

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I used to have a boss who is blind.  He was the CIO of the company.  He has a German Shepherd as a service dog - lots of hair.  Hair, hair, everywhere.  Anyway, if you want to set up a meeting with my boss, you have to include a meeting invitation for his dog.  The dog, of course, is listed separately in the Corporate Directory.  If the dog is in the meeting list, that means my boss can attend in person.  If the dog is not in the meeting list, that means, my boss will have to attend remotely.  This is done so that those with allergies or anybody who has a problem with dogs will know to attend the meeting in person or remotely.

I was hoping that the rest of the world would use this same courtesy regarding their service animals.  At least provide an option for people who are health averse to animals to have the same choices as those who require service animals.  Dunno how that would work through the legal framework.  But, as it is now - especially in California - consideration is only given to those in need of service animals because they are thought of as the only ones disadvantaged.  With the rise of emotional support animals, the trend has become worse for the health-averse-to-animals.  And because California makes it super easy to get a certification from one's doctor for the ESA, you have animals that have no public skills riding airplanes posing a danger to a lot of people sardined in a can.

And a PSA to all - service animals, including emotional support ones are not to be petted.  Do not ask to pet them, do not try to catch their attention to play with them, leave them alone.  They are there to do a job and any distraction from the job will pose a danger to their human.  A dog trained to detect the onset of an epileptic seizure cannot do his job if he is distracted by ear scratches. 

And to those with ESAs.  Train your dog.  Their bad behavior in public threatens the lives of all the people who need service animals as you give service animals a bad reputation.

Edited by anatess2
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11 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

Full disclosure: Just a few weeks ago, my wife and daughters took chickens to a public park.  Like, on leashes.

When I lived in Moscow, I got two cats (call them ESA pets, cuz, you know, Moscow).  So when it came time to bring them home, I got them little "passports" showing they'd had all their shots, had mom get me crates (cuz they'd have to go in the pet section of the cargo hold) and cat leashes / harness things (cuz I thought they might need potty breaks at JFK).  So, the leashes arrive, and I put one on the male cat, he springs straight up into the air, to a ridiculous height, and after landing, does all kinds of contortions trying to get it off.  Eventually, I took it off.  Then I put one on the female.  She flopped over onto her side like she was paralyzed.  Even if I tugged on the leash trying to get her to walk, she'd just lie there, even if I dragged her a bit.  The leashes went into the little compartment in the cages and never came back out.  (Fortunately, starving them for 8 hours before we left the house did the trick - they survived 24 hours of air travel without making any messes.)

(Vaccination passports were unnecessary - the customs dude saw my black passport and just waved us through - they could have been rabid, plague-bearing rats or stuffed animals full of cocaine for all he cared - don't think I got closer than 15 feet to him - black passports are terribly convenient things...)

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Service animals are half science and half art.  We met a war vet with various behavioral issues at a WalMart once.  His service dog was a tiny vicious Chihuahua, who would bite him if he got out of line.  It was the coolest thing in the world, once it was explained to us what was happening.  This guy was basically too damaged to be out in public by himself.  But he could go places with that dog.  If the dog detected too much anxiety/fear, or if the guy's arms started reaching towards someone, dog would give him a quick nasty growl/bite.  The guy said he had his social boundary awareness shot off in the war.

We spent ten minutes having a pleasant conversation with this guy about all the places he was able to go because his dog kept him in line.  The dog sat there and glared hatefully at everyone and everything.

Edited by NeuroTypical
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I have a friend that claims to have a service dog.  It's for her sister who has progressive MS.  Yet even when she is not with her sister, she takes the dog with her everywhere.  I've met her for dinner numerous times and there the dog is.  I've even asked her if the dog is certified as a service dog and she says no.  But she tells everyone the dog is and they allow her to bring the dog into restaurants etc.  She's a tiny little thing and my friend has a little doggy container that she keeps the dog in under the table but still the fact is....that dog goes everywhere even when the sister is not there.

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1 hour ago, pam said:

I have a friend that claims to have a service dog.  It's for her sister who has progressive MS.  Yet even when she is not with her sister, she takes the dog with her everywhere.  I've met her for dinner numerous times and there the dog is.  I've even asked her if the dog is certified as a service dog and she says no.  But she tells everyone the dog is and they allow her to bring the dog into restaurants etc.  She's a tiny little thing and my friend has a little doggy container that she keeps the dog in under the table but still the fact is....that dog goes everywhere even when the sister is not there.

And that's another legal issue.  In the same way that it has become deemed illegal to ask someone for proof of legal residence, it is also deemed illegal to ask someone with a service dog for proof of legal service.  Of course, this is a law based on emotions rather than practicality but lawmakers have a hard time striking a balance between the two.

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1 hour ago, anatess2 said:

And that's another legal issue.  In the same way that it has become deemed illegal to ask someone for proof of legal residence, it is also deemed illegal to ask someone with a service dog for proof of legal service.  Of course, this is a law based on emotions rather than practicality but lawmakers have a hard time striking a balance between the two.

At the hotel I work at, we do not allow pets. But do allow service animals. ESA are not service animals but people tend to use the same terminology for both.

It can become a complicated situation if I see an animal, say no to allowing it in the hotel, then I'm told it is a service animal and I can't confirm because I can't ask for registration, I allow it on the hotel,  the animal damages the room, person doesn't have liscence for the animal and they get charged for the damage, and they leave a nasty review for the hotel because we said we allowed service animals when they "had one" but really didn't.

In general, I disagree with emotion based laws. I have an unchrisrlike principle I tend to go by that goes like this. "If someone is offended... then they deserve to be offended."

Edited by Fether
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14 hours ago, anatess2 said:

And a PSA to all - service animals, including emotional support ones are not to be petted.  Do not ask to pet them, do not try to catch their attention to play with them, leave them alone.  They are there to do a job and any distraction from the job will pose a danger to their human.  A dog trained to detect the onset of an epileptic seizure cannot do his job if he is distracted by ear scratches. 

And to those with ESAs.  Train your dog.  Their bad behavior in public threatens the lives of all the people who need service animals as you give service animals a bad reputation.

One customer got . . . upset with me when I told her not to let anyone pet her dog. She brought in the dog, claiming it was a service animal, but it wasn't trained for anything. If she's going to claim her dog is a service animal, I'm going to make sure the dog is treated like one.

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2 hours ago, mrmarklin said:

On another note, my wife had a miniature poodle she would carry with her while shopping. It looked like a stuffed animal, so would often go unchallenged. 

Wrong, just wrong.  A picture is worth a thousand words.  It's done with a TWSBI Eco EF filled with Akkerman Oranje Boven (because I recently learned that @pam's favorite color is orange :) ):

HD.jpg.409f5dd9a290560866f4c78a0f136472.jpg

(Yes, I know, I can't draw.)

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2 hours ago, zil said:

Wrong, just wrong.  A picture is worth a thousand words.  It's done with a TWSBI Eco EF filled with Akkerman Oranje Boven (because I recently learned that @pam's favorite color is orange :) ):

HD.jpg.409f5dd9a290560866f4c78a0f136472.jpg

(Yes, I know, I can't draw.)

This is a great quote. It literally made me laugh out loud. Unfortunately, it fails the reality test. Lots of common animals are taller than dogs and shorter than horses. Mules, donkeys, pigs, goats, sheep -- heck, emus.

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6 minutes ago, Vort said:

This is a great quote. It literally made me laugh out loud.

Thank you.  I thunked of it all by myself.  Maybe you should thank Chomp - he was the best dog ever.

6 minutes ago, Vort said:

Unfortunately, it fails the reality test. Lots of common animals are taller than dogs and shorter than horses. Mules, donkeys, pigs, goats, sheep -- heck, emus.

Stop ruining my quote with your facts!!

PS: I stand by the concept.  Lab + Great Dane mix (what Chomp was) is about as small as I'd want to go with a dog.  If you want  small pet, get a cat, or a rodent or something... :rolleyes:

Edited by zil
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