Looking for advice, not judgement

[In Idaho]

A few months before I got married my husband told me of his long standing porn issue. He said he'd been doing really well and it wasn't until 6 months after we were married that he told me he was struggling again.

Fast forward 6 years... I'm completely broken. There's absolutely no passion in our marriage, I'm angry at him all the time. I'm in counseling and he's been off and on doing well with his addiction, but I do not feel attractive to him. We recently decided to separate so I can just heal and I wanted to see if he can be strong without me nagging him. It has been so relieving. I don't struggle with image issues when he's not around, I'm completely confident and I like myself. However, he treats my like a queen and I've literally never taken the garbage out our whole entire marriage. He's an amazing dad to our boy. He's so kind and giving it's unbelievable which is why I'm still with him. 

But I made a huge mistake while being on my own. I let myself flirt with a guy from years ago that I made out with once. And I let him come over to my house (this is all over the course of a few months). We made out. I never in a million years thought I would do something like that. But I felt passion and chemistry, something I haven't felt with my husband for almost our entire marriage and so I messed up... And I feel horrible. Obviously I'm going to talk to the bishop and I've already decided to tell my husband. There was petting involved but I want to know what I can expect maybe? What's the punishment for that? And... Is having a super kind husband who treats me like a queen enough to stay in a marriage where I'm constantly living in fear of the next time he'll choose the internet over me? He's working on it and I always told myself as long as he's trying, I'll stay, but I'm so broken. And we have a kid who I don't want to take him away from his dad. I'm pretty sure he'll forgive me and I don't want to get in that situation again, but I just want to be prepared for the discipline I'm facing...

[Jane_Doe]

First of all *HUGS*

Second of all, welcome to the forum and I'm sorry you're going through this horribleness.  Your post brought up a lot of big issues so I'll tackle them one by one:

In regards to what to expect in regards to repenting from your mistake with this other man: read Alma the Younger's experience.  The depths of sin are dark and harrowing-- I'm sure you know that right now.  But the forgiveness of Christ is WONDERFUL and joyous.  The Bishop's larger purpose is not to punish you, but to help guide you through the repentance process to find that joy-- like a midwife helping you push through the pains of labor to experience the joy of a new life.  Yes, the process of getting through this probably won't be fun, but it's totally worth it!   

Will you be excommunicated for making out with this guy?  No!  The Bishop is there to help, even when it hurts.  If there's discipline, maybe something like very short term disfellowshipment. 

 

In regards to staying with you husband: we, strangers on the internet, cannot remotely make that call.  That needs to be between you and God.  So, being totally disqualified to make that judgement, I'll just comment on a couple of other things--

-- You are 100% justified feeling hurt here.

-- Counseling is good.  Both for you and the marriage.  

-- Porn addiction is not something anyone can just white-knuckle through.  Addicts need years of intense therapy with proffesionals to work through things, including digging out all the root causes of the problem and taking care of them.  

-- He may treat you like a queen when it comes to taking out the literal trash, but a man who chooses porn is figuratively treating his wife like trash.  

-- God can indeed work miracles in marriage, given time and both spouses giving is 300% in with Him.  

[NeuroTypical]

Hi and welcome In Idaho.  A few things:

- You are not alone.  You're not the first person to deal with a husband with an issue like that.  You're not the first person to mess up the way you did.  

- Kudos on getting counseling, and yes indeed, go confess to your bishop.  Be as open and transparent as possible - your bishop will help you.  

- "he's been off and on doing well with his addiction"  This is code for "my husband's addiction is totally out of control".  Do you have any LDS-based recovery groups in your area?  There may even be a recovery group for spouses of addicts.  It's something to ask your bishop.  But yeah, you need to learn some things about addiction, and one of those things is there's no such thing as "off and on doing well".  There's "he is getting help, and it has been X months since the last time".  

- You have a path to walk, to be worthy of his trust.  You walk your walk, and he walks his.  Both of you will need to walk your individual walks, in order for your marriage to succeed.  

- Forgiveness is important.  But it's critical to understand what forgiveness means, and what it doesn't.  You can forgive, and still understand he is not worthy of trust.  Forgiveness is something you give, but trust is something he must earn.  You can't force yourself to extend trust - I suggest you don't try.  You can admit you have zero trust in him.  That's healthy.  You can think about whether it's appropriate to trust him.  It's totally healthy and righteous to have the answer be "no".   God doesn't expect you to ignore destructive harm, that's not what forgiveness means.    If/when he hears about your infidelity, you can see how this stuff will work both ways. 

God bless and good luck!  Let us know how things go with your bishop appointment.

 

Edited September 18, 2017 by NeuroTypical

[Midwest LDS]

I'm sorry you are in such a difficult position @In Idaho. You've been in a rough situation for some time, and I'm sorry you're husband has struggled with pornography addiction and in that regard you have a right to feel unhappy. But as you know you've done something especially wrong in response. Adultery is never justified. You know that and I'm glad too hear you are working on getting it fixed. Don't give yourself an excuse to soften the blow, as absolute truth is the only path to repentance and forgiveness. For what it's worth, as I am only a random person on the internet and I don't know you or your husband personally, here are my thoughts. 

1. First don't panic about speaking to the bishop. You will feel a thousand percent better the moment you talk to him. You may very well face church discipline and only your bishop will be able to tell you the consequences of your sin, but whatever it is, whether it's informal probation, excommunication, or anything in between it will always feel better to be walking the road to independence from sin through the grace of Christ. Also, as you've indicated you will do, you have to be honest with your husband. 

2. I can't tell you what you should do with your marriage. It's obviously in a bad place right now and I don't know you personally. But it sounds like your husband has been trying to get better from your description. He told you about his pornography problem before you were married, did he continue to let you know when he struggled or was he constantly trying to hide things from you? If he has been honest with you and trying, my advice is to keep working with him. That means, to me, that he has been talking to his bishop, working with addiction recovery services, willingly installing monitoring software on his computer etc. Sometimes it takes years to overcome this sin, I know it did for me, but it can be overcome completely if he truly trusts Jesus Christ and is doing everything he can. If he's not that's a serious problem and you will have to consider marriage counselling.

You've both committed serious sins, but forgiveness is available to you both. Don't give up! Christ's promises of forgiveness and strength are real and he can heal both of you fully.

Edited September 18, 2017 by Midwest LDS

[Latter-Day Marriage]

This is not meant to sound judgemental toward you, but it probably will over the Internet.  Please  hang in there as you read this and try to not take it different than I intend.

What the others said above is great.  Something I think you should also do is use your mistake to better understand and find a way to forgive his mistake.  You say you feel absolutely no passion in your marriage and you are angry at him all the time and you do not feel attractive to him.   All perfectly understandable things to feel, but how do you think HE feels?  Wouldn't be pretty much the same?  Wouldn't your anger push him away much the same as his porn usage pushes  you away?  You had some unmet needs and when you had a chance to meet them improperly, you gave into temptation.  He has an addiction that pushes him to do improper things and he gives into that temptation.  He trespassed against the marriage alone in his mind, you did so giving another man access to your body.  You ask if having a super kind husband who treats you like a queen is enough to stay in a marriage where he might use porn again, could he not ask himself if having a constantly angry wife who might let another man make out and fondle her again (or worse) is a marriage he wants to be in.

Also, A porn addict doesn't use porn because he finds his wife deficient in some way.  Even with the hottest, sexiest, most loving, ready, willing, and able wife there is a porn addict will feel drawn to porn.  Please don't think of it as a slight against you personally or a reflection of his feelings for you. Don't make this about you verses him, it should you the both of you fighting together against porn (and adultery).  You being there to help him fight it, not condemn and judge him for his weakness.  Would you take cancer as a personal insult?  Should he look at what you did as a reflection of your feelings for him?

I am not trying to beat you up here, really.  I'm not making a judgement over who did the worse thing or anything like that.  I'm just trying to get you to relate to your husband's side better so you can feel greater compassion for his situation and offer him forgiveness.  What I said here applies to him as well, he should be able to draw on his mistakes and be able to use them to be compassionate and forgiving toward you.  After that you can decide together about seeking a reconciliation to heal the marriage.  It may be hard for him, a lot of guys consider looking at porn to be small potatoes compared to getting physical with another person but I hope and pray the two of you can work this out. 

Getting God's forgiveness is probably going to be easier than a reconciliation with your husband, but if you two work together and with God and both do your part you can get to a point where your marriage and your love is stronger than it has ever been.  Oddly enough, my last blog post was about healing wounds.  I've only got part one up but hopefully it can help.

http://latterday-marriage.blogspot.com/2017/09/healing-wounds-part-1-where-to-start.html

[Vort]

3 hours ago, Jane_Doe said:

Will you be excommunicated for making out with this guy?  No!  The Bishop is there to help, even when it hurts.  If there's discipline, maybe something like very short term disfellowshipment.

This is a judgment for the bishop. None of us here can speak authoritatively to that issue. Sacred covenants were broken; this is not a light matter.

3 hours ago, Jane_Doe said:

You are 100% justified feeling hurt here.

I  disagree that this is a judgment we're qualified to make.

3 hours ago, Jane_Doe said:

He may treat you like a queen when it comes to taking out the literal trash, but a man who chooses porn is figuratively treating his wife like trash. 

I see nothing even remotely helpful about such a statement in this situation. The husband is to be commended for his kindness, gentility, and expression of love, not backhanded with, "Sure, taking out the garbage is nice, but let's not forget what a horrible person he really is!"

2 hours ago, Midwest LDS said:

But as you know you've done something equally wrong in response.

In general, I don't think it's useful to compare which sin is more grave or if they're equally horrid. But if a comparison is to be made, it should be as accurate as possible. To wit:

Looking at pictures of naked women out of prurient interest is wicked and soul-destroying. Making out with a guy who isn't your husband and exchanging feel-ups with him is worse. If you're not convinced, consider your reaction if the husband had had a feel-up session with his girlfriend. Wouldn't you agree that's much worse than the porn usage?

This is not a commentary on the OP, but a metacommentary on how we respond to people. I wish I had useful advice for the OP. But minimizing her wrongdoing can't be good.

[Midwest LDS]

@Vort you're correct, physical adultery is worse than pornography abuse. Both will keep them out of the Celestial Kingdom, which is why I said equally bad, but I should have been clearer as I want them both to repent and be cleansed by Christ's Atonement.

Edited September 18, 2017 by Midwest LDS

[In Idaho]

I have been cheated on in the past and I will tell you, what he's doing with pornography feels the exact same as when I was cheated on. Maybe it's not that same feeling for everyone when their spouse has a porn problem, but it feels the exact same to me. I'm not saying which sin is worse because honestly I feel that is completely up to Heavenly Father and I do think situation plays a role in everything so he will decide in this circumstance.

[Vort]

9 minutes ago, Midwest LDS said:

Both will keep them out of the Celestial Kingdom

Agreed, which is why I think such comparisons are generally not useful.

[In Idaho]

3 hours ago, Jane_Doe said:

First of all *HUGS*

Second of all, welcome to the forum and I'm sorry you're going through this horribleness.  Your post brought up a lot of big issues so I'll tackle them one by one:

Thank you so much for your kind words. It was so great to hear so little judgement as the first comment. Everything you said helped me feel more confident about going to the bishop and starting that process. 

[In Idaho]

1 hour ago, Latter-Day Marriage said:

It may be hard for him, a lot of guys consider looking at porn to be small potatoes compared to getting physical with another person

I didn't feel judgement from you so thank you for that. What you said was very clear and informative. And yes, there are a ton of guys who don't view themselves having an addiction to porn as anything close to as bad as something physical. I was however told by a bishop once that the steady and reoccurring porn addiction is actually quite similar. So I think it all really depends and leave that up to Heavenly Father. 

[Guest]

14 hours ago, In Idaho said:

A few months before I got married my husband told me of his long standing porn issue. He said he'd been doing really well and it wasn't until 6 months after we were married that he told me he was struggling again.

Fast forward 6 years... I'm completely broken. There's absolutely no passion in our marriage, I'm angry at him all the time. I'm in counseling and he's been off and on doing well with his addiction, but I do not feel attractive to him. We recently decided to separate so I can just heal and I wanted to see if he can be strong without me nagging him. It has been so relieving. I don't struggle with image issues when he's not around, I'm completely confident and I like myself. However, he treats my like a queen and I've literally never taken the garbage out our whole entire marriage. He's an amazing dad to our boy. He's so kind and giving it's unbelievable which is why I'm still with him. 

But I made a huge mistake while being on my own. I let myself flirt with a guy from years ago that I made out with once. And I let him come over to my house (this is all over the course of a few months). We made out. I never in a million years thought I would do something like that. But I felt passion and chemistry, something I haven't felt with my husband for almost our entire marriage and so I messed up... And I feel horrible. Obviously I'm going to talk to the bishop and I've already decided to tell my husband. There was petting involved but I want to know what I can expect maybe? What's the punishment for that? And... Is having a super kind husband who treats me like a queen enough to stay in a marriage where I'm constantly living in fear of the next time he'll choose the internet over me? He's working on it and I always told myself as long as he's trying, I'll stay, but I'm so broken. And we have a kid who I don't want to take him away from his dad. I'm pretty sure he'll forgive me and I don't want to get in that situation again, but I just want to be prepared for the discipline I'm facing...

I have good news and bad news.

The bad news is you both need help right now from your bishop.  Any delay may well lead to some pretty serious sin that will be indeed very hard to escape.

The good news is, while both of you have serious sins, there is still time to repent before crossing the major red line of adultery (but if you don't repent, one or both of you WILL cross the line, and probably sooner than you think.  That is the nature of sexual sin).

More good news is, now that you have each wronged the other, you can perhaps forgive each other, realize you both have a weakness in sexual sin, and help one another repent.  You are both in the same boat now - and no one has the moral high ground - don't forget that.  It is time to put anger and resentment behind you and try to work together to get out of this mess. 

As your husband sounds like a pretty agreeable guy, perhaps a good start to overcoming addiction is to agree with him to cut the internet and, if possible, cell phones from your house for awhile?  I don't understand why more people with pornography addiction don't do this.  I understand this step won't necessarily stop an addict, but it will slow him down, and if he is trying to repent, will give him some time to catch himself before he sins (as he will now have to get dressed, get in the car and go to a sleazy bookstore or whatever when he is tempted).  Such a move may also help you stay away from the guy you sinned with if the sin was made through social media.  Such a move will only be successful if you both agree to it (you can't force the husband to do this if he refuses), but if it frees you of your addictions and sins so you can repent, it is well worth the sacrifice.

Good luck - you and your husband can absolutely still turn things around, but you have to act now before things get worse.

Edited September 18, 2017 by DoctorLemon

[Midwest LDS]

By the way I really do wish you the best @In Idaho. Sometimes I believe it's difficult to share emotions over the internet. I want you and your husband to be right with the Lord. I'm not judging you, I'm trying to help you the same way the Lord helped me. Don't allow yourself to say "because my husband sinned greatly too my own sin isn't as bad".  Remember Alma's advice to his erring son Corianton in Alma 39:4 in reference to him sleeping with Isabel "Yea, she did steal away the hearts of many; but this was no excuse for thee, my son. Thou shouldst have tended to the ministry wherewith thou wast entrusted" Until you admit to yourself the depth of your own sin, you will not be able to repent. Don't try to soften the blow to youurself it will do nothing but hinder your own repentance. Your husband has sinned too. He is in sore need of repentance as well, but you can't make him do that. You can get yourself right with God, and I am proud of you for going to the Bishop quickly. That tells me you want forgiveness. Do so, don't excuse your culpability, and Christ will forgive you and help you know what to do with your marriage, something I can't give you. I know you can do it Sister.☺

Edited September 18, 2017 by Midwest LDS

[Latter-Day Marriage]

1 hour ago, In Idaho said:

I didn't feel judgement from you so thank you for that. What you said was very clear and informative. And yes, there are a ton of guys who don't view themselves having an addiction to porn as anything close to as bad as something physical. I was however told by a bishop once that the steady and reoccurring porn addiction is actually quite similar. So I think it all really depends and leave that up to Heavenly Father. 

A porn addiction is a condition, perhaps a physical condition, perhaps a psychological condition, perhaps a mix.  Having an addiction of any kind is not a sin.  How  you react to it may or may not be a sin but having the addiction itself is not a sin.  Also, God takes things like that into account, a person who is fighting an addiction and slips up is not the same as a person with no addiction who is actively seeking it 

In terms of your repentance it is up to how Heavenly Father feels about the seriousness of your actions, and that won`t be a matter of comparing it to his sins.   Also, neither you nor any Bishop gets to decide how your husband feels about what you did.  If he has spend the last severl years feeling like you were looking down on him as morally inferior trying to convince him that he is still worse than you likely won`t be very helpful.  If you are going to repair this marriage part of that will be accepting his pain as valid, just as he has to accept your pain as valid.  Don`t get defensive and try and talk him out of how he feels or convince him he is wrong to feel how he feels.

Edited September 18, 2017 by Latter-Day Marriage

[NeuroTypical]

11 minutes ago, Latter-Day Marriage said:

A porn addiction is a condition, perhaps a physical condition, perhaps a psychological condition, perhaps a mix.  Having an addiction of any kind is not a sin.  How  you react to it may or may not be a sin but having the addiction itself is not a sin.  Also, God takes things like that into account, a person who is fighting an addiction and slips up is not the same as a person with no addiction who is actively seeking it 

One might add, that while God will judge perfectly, we humans often aren't able to.  

Sins are things we do that we have control over. 
If we have no control over something, we are unable to sin, for there is no choice, no agency.   Consequences still happen, but we don't bear the weight of sin.

While I believe the overall point about addictions, whether your hubby actually has one, or just a sinful habit, or somewhere in between, is something we can't really say.  Various treatment options have different perspectives on the matter.   The church follows the traditional 12 step program pioneered by Alcoholics Anonymous.  The Serenity Prayer:

Quote

God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
Courage to change the things I can,
And wisdom to know the difference.

No decent treatment provider of any worth will teach your husband "oh, don't worry, you're addicted so you can't really control whether you do it or not".   At the end of the day, nobody held a gun to either your husband's head or yours, and forced to you do the things both of you chose to do.

 

Edited September 18, 2017 by NeuroTypical

[Latter-Day Marriage]

25 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

One might add, that while God will judge perfectly, we humans often aren't able to.  

Sins are things we do that we have control over. 
If we have no control over something, we are unable to sin, for there is no choice, no agency.   Consequences still happen, but we don't bear the weight of sin.

While I believe the overall point about addictions, whether your hubby actually has one, or just a sinful habit, or somewhere in between, is something we can't really say.  Various treatment options have different perspectives on the matter.   The church follows the traditional 12 step program pioneered by Alcoholics Anonymous.  The Serenity Prayer:

No decent treatment provider of any worth will teach your husband "oh, don't worry, you're addicted so you can't really control whether you do it or not".   At the end of the day, nobody held a gun to either your husband's head or yours, and forced to you do the things both of you chose to do.

 

 

True, we don`t know for sure if a person who claims to have an addiction really has one or not, a Bishop could by revelation but not us. Personally I think it is best to take somebody at their word on that, not in a way that facilitates their sin, but in a way that positions you as their ally in fighting it rather than as an opponent.

I love the addiction recovery videos the church put out a while ago.  Very eye opening.  When somebody can`t seem to stop themselves even when they understand they are doing themselves harm, that is the worst kind of addiction.

 

[Grunt]

18 hours ago, In Idaho said:

A few months before I got married my husband told me of his long standing porn issue. He said he'd been doing really well and it wasn't until 6 months after we were married that he told me he was struggling again.

Fast forward 6 years... I'm completely broken. There's absolutely no passion in our marriage, I'm angry at him all the time. I'm in counseling and he's been off and on doing well with his addiction, but I do not feel attractive to him. We recently decided to separate so I can just heal and I wanted to see if he can be strong without me nagging him. It has been so relieving. I don't struggle with image issues when he's not around, I'm completely confident and I like myself. However, he treats my like a queen and I've literally never taken the garbage out our whole entire marriage. He's an amazing dad to our boy. He's so kind and giving it's unbelievable which is why I'm still with him. 

But I made a huge mistake while being on my own. I let myself flirt with a guy from years ago that I made out with once. And I let him come over to my house (this is all over the course of a few months). We made out. I never in a million years thought I would do something like that. But I felt passion and chemistry, something I haven't felt with my husband for almost our entire marriage and so I messed up... And I feel horrible. Obviously I'm going to talk to the bishop and I've already decided to tell my husband. There was petting involved but I want to know what I can expect maybe? What's the punishment for that? And... Is having a super kind husband who treats me like a queen enough to stay in a marriage where I'm constantly living in fear of the next time he'll choose the internet over me? He's working on it and I always told myself as long as he's trying, I'll stay, but I'm so broken. And we have a kid who I don't want to take him away from his dad. I'm pretty sure he'll forgive me and I don't want to get in that situation again, but I just want to be prepared for the discipline I'm facing...

I'm going to go a different route than others have, but I'm generally not one to listen to so keep that in mind.

Your husband has a porn addiction.  This is no indication of how he feels about you.  It is no indication of how he views you.

He's an exceptional husband and father.  He treats you like a queen.  You have self-image issues, presumably because of how you think he views you due to his porn addiction.  You nag him about his porn addiction.

Have you considered the possibility that you're  the reason there is no passion in your marriage?  Have you considered that your reaction to his addiction is hurting your marriage more?  Now you've cheated on him?  You're concerned about the punishment?  Do you think you should be concerned about how you violated your marriage, your children's trust, and your covenants with God?  Honestly, you sound as though you're more concerned with yourself than your family.  

Since you came here for advice, here it is.  Be an adult.  Adults have responsibility.  Go see your bishop.  Now.  Do what he tells you and hope your husband forgives you.  Due to the fact that you said he will, it sounds like you take him for granted.  Stop.  Be the wife and mother you committed to being.  Help your husband through his addiction,  Stop being selfish.

I wish you the best.  I wish your family the best.  I truly hope you work this out for the sake of yourself, your family, and your relationship with God. I mean that sincerely.

Edited September 19, 2017 by Grunt

[JoCa]

1 hour ago, Grunt said:

Have you considered the possibility that you're  the reason there is no passion in your marriage?  Have you considered that your reaction to his addiction is hurting your marriage more?  Now you've cheated on him?  You're concerned about the punishment?  Do you think you should be concerned about how you violated your marriage, your children's trust, and your covenants with God?  Honestly, you sound as though you're more concerned with yourself than your family.  

Since you came here for advice, here it is.  Be an adult.  Adults have responsibility.  Go see your bishop.  Now.  Do what he tells you and hope your husband forgives you.  Due to the fact that you said he will, it sounds like you take him for granted.  Stop.  Be the wife and mother you committed to being.  Help your husband through his addiction,  Stop being selfish.

I wish you the best.  I wish your family the best.  I truly hope you work this out for the sake of yourself, your family, and your relationship with God. I mean that sincerely.

Wow, Grunt. I love this.  I wish I could like this +10.

Truth bomb.

[JoCa]

What Grunt said.  

7 hours ago, In Idaho said:

I have been cheated on in the past and I will tell you, what he's doing with pornography feels the exact same as when I was cheated on. Maybe it's not that same feeling for everyone when their spouse has a porn problem, but it feels the exact same to me.

But it's not.  And I'll tell you why.  His sin is his sin, not yours.  I detect this hint of justification for your actions as in well he was cheating on me with porn so I'll cheat on him and I'll show him. Look, there is no way that you just "happened to let yourself get into a situation".  Don't make excuses or justifications for why you chose to cheat on your husband.

Quite honestly you have to decide what you really want . . .now maybe, just maybe your sin has caused you to wake up to your awful situation and caused you to realize some things about your marriage and your situation.  As in maybe your husband isn't all that bad of a guy, maybe he is a good father, maybe he is a pretty good husband (not the best, but pretty good).

You quite non-chalantly said "I'm pretty sure he'll forgive me"??? Really, that's the attitude you are going with towards your husband who you cheated on? Yeah hey hubby . .. just to let you know while we were separated I let some other dude get it on with me . . .we didn't copulate but he was all over me, you'll forgive me won't ya!, no big deal?

Him forgiving you isn't a forgone conclusion. You never know, he might have had it with your constant nagging him for 6 years and he's sick and tired of it . . .but he has been committed to trying to make a marriage work.  Maybe this is the last straw for him-maybe he says good riddance.

"I'm not saying which sin is worse because honestly I feel that is completely up to Heavenly Father and I do think situation plays a role in everything so he will decide in this circumstance."

Oh really now.  Which sin is worse?  Does it even matter?  Which sin is worse is the sin you committed!!!  Being married ain't a competition (hey your sin is worse than my sin).  The only sin that matters is the sin that you commit.   This much I can tell you, sins of action are greater than sins of thought and sins of action committed with other people are greater than sin committed alone.  In other words, the greater sin is the one that is much harder to repent of and whose consequences are much larger.

Is there any chance that your husband sitting at his computer watching porn will get STDs, get a woman pregnant?  Is there any chance that with you making out with a man who is not your husband that you will have sex, get pregnant, get STDs, etc?

You tell me which sin is the greater sin?

Look, his sin is his sin-it is not your responsibility to fix his porn problem-it's not your responsibility to make him understand how bad it is (yes it is bad and yes it is a sin). Only he can fix it and the sooner you let go of his sin and stop trying to carry his sin on your back-the happier you will be.  He will stand accountable before God-not you for his sin.

Porn use has very little to do with whether you are pretty enough.  Porn use is (in general) an anti-social behavior, as in generally there is something else broken that is driving the urge to commit sin.  My guess is that it in large part revolves around your broken marriage. He needs to find a better outlet for what is driving this behavior.  

Fix your marriage or at least start working on it and he will fix his porn use.  No man who has a good marriage will result to porn use.  Porn use is just like drug use-it is used to mask something.

Good luck, you are going to need it . . .that and the Atonement of Christ.  You are going to need a lot of that.

[Vort]

I agree with almost everything you wrote, JoCa. But not this:

33 minutes ago, JoCa said:

No man who has a good marriage will result to porn use.

I do not believe this is true. I don't have much experience with which people engage in porn usage, but I feel quite sure in saying that even a perfect wife might have a husband who uses porn. I believe those who say that porn usage is not about the wife, it's about the husband. I believe this is the nature of sin in general, reflecting weakness and deficiency in the sinner far more than in anyone else.

[In Idaho]

49 minutes ago, JoCa said:

What Grunt said.  

But it's not.  And I'll tell you why.  His sin is his sin, not yours.  I detect this hint of justification for your actions as in well he was cheating on me with porn so I'll cheat on him and I'll show him. Look, there is no way that you just "happened to let yourself get into a situation".  Don't make excuses or justifications for why you chose to cheat on your husband.

Quite honestly you have to decide what you really want . . .now maybe, just maybe your sin has caused you to wake up to your awful situation and caused you to realize some things about your marriage and your situation.  As in maybe your husband isn't all that bad of a guy, maybe he is a good father, maybe he is a pretty good husband (not the best, but pretty good).

You quite non-chalantly said "I'm pretty sure he'll forgive me"??? Really, that's the attitude you are going with towards your husband who you cheated on? Yeah hey hubby . .. just to let you know while we were separated I let some other dude get it on with me . . .we didn't copulate but he was all over me, you'll forgive me won't ya!, no big deal?

Him forgiving you isn't a forgone conclusion. You never know, he might have had it with your constant nagging him for 6 years and he's sick and tired of it . . .but he has been committed to trying to make a marriage work.  Maybe this is the last straw for him-maybe he says good riddance.

"I'm not saying which sin is worse because honestly I feel that is completely up to Heavenly Father and I do think situation plays a role in everything so he will decide in this circumstance."

Oh really now.  Which sin is worse?  Does it even matter?  Which sin is worse is the sin you committed!!!  Being married ain't a competition (hey your sin is worse than my sin).  The only sin that matters is the sin that you commit.   This much I can tell you, sins of action are greater than sins of thought and sins of action committed with other people are greater than sin committed alone.  In other words, the greater sin is the one that is much harder to repent of and whose consequences are much larger.

Is there any chance that your husband sitting at his computer watching porn will get STDs, get a woman pregnant?  Is there any chance that with you making out with a man who is not your husband that you will have sex, get pregnant, get STDs, etc?

You tell me which sin is the greater sin?

Look, his sin is his sin-it is not your responsibility to fix his porn problem-it's not your responsibility to make him understand how bad it is (yes it is bad and yes it is a sin). Only he can fix it and the sooner you let go of his sin and stop trying to carry his sin on your back-the happier you will be.  He will stand accountable before God-not you for his sin.

Porn use has very little to do with whether you are pretty enough.  Porn use is (in general) an anti-social behavior, as in generally there is something else broken that is driving the urge to commit sin.  My guess is that it in large part revolves around your broken marriage. He needs to find a better outlet for what is driving this behavior.  

Fix your marriage or at least start working on it and he will fix his porn use.  No man who has a good marriage will result to porn use.  Porn use is just like drug use-it is used to mask something.

Good luck, you are going to need it . . .that and the Atonement of Christ.  You are going to need a lot of that.

I didn't read this whole novel and don't intend to. You have no idea what the rest of our marriage entails. You only know what I've told you. He kinda already knows something has happened he just doesn't know exactly and he already told me we'll work through it so before you assume you know everything about this situation, sit back and realize you have absolutely no idea all of everything that is happening

[In Idaho]

3 hours ago, Grunt said:

Have you considered the possibility that you're  the reason there is no passion in your marriage?  Have you considered that your reaction to his addiction is hurting your marriage more?  Now you've cheated on him?  You're concerned about the punishment?  Do you think you should be concerned about how you violated your marriage, your children's trust, and your covenants with God?  Honestly, you sound as though you're more concerned with yourself than your family.  

I am not the sole reason there's no passion. I would love it if you wouldn't judge everything and assume you know the details about the situation. You know only small details of what I've said. Just like EVERY relationship, there's always more going on than you know about. So stop being a jerk.

[JoCa]

17 minutes ago, In Idaho said:

I didn't read this whole novel and don't intend to. You have no idea what the rest of our marriage entails. You only know what I've told you. He kinda already knows something has happened he just doesn't know exactly and he already told me we'll work through it so before you assume you know everything about this situation, sit back and realize you have absolutely no idea all of everything that is happening

Sounds like then all you wanted was sympathy for cheating.  Not gonna find it from me.

If he were here, I'd tell him to stop porn-but he's not and you are.

Sounds like you are making a bunch of assumptions about your husband.  I've been married for at least twice as long as you have and I guarantee you if my wife came to me and said "hey honey some dude and I got it on while we were having some rough times . . .but we didn't have sex!".  I'd be having some real serious consideration about my marriage.

Word of advice, if your husband frankly forgives you he is quite a good husband and a good man and you would do well to never mention porn to him again.

Edited September 19, 2017 by JoCa

[JoCa]

19 minutes ago, In Idaho said:

I am not the sole reason there's no passion. I would love it if you wouldn't judge everything and assume you know the details about the situation. You know only small details of what I've said. Just like EVERY relationship, there's always more going on than you know about. So stop being a jerk.

Of course, it takes two to make a marriage.  But he isn't here and you are so people are giving you advice based on what you told them.  I really don't understand this.  Judgement is "you are damned to hell are a horrible person"-no one has said that. 

You made a mistake, you committed a serious sin, giving you advice on the seriousness of the sin, reasons why it occurred and how to fix it isn't judgement. It's giving advice based on what you have said.

[Latter-Day Marriage]

9 hours ago, In Idaho said:

I have been cheated on in the past and I will tell you, what he's doing with pornography feels the exact same as when I was cheated on. Maybe it's not that same feeling for everyone when their spouse has a porn problem, but it feels the exact same to me. I'm not saying which sin is worse because honestly I feel that is completely up to Heavenly Father and I do think situation plays a role in everything so he will decide in this circumstance.

My wife and I were pretty serious when I left on my mission, and I knew she was the one.  A couple years after we got married, I found out that while I was on my mission she did some things that were disloyal to me as a boyfriend.  She did not break any commandments but she did cross the line and do some things that a loyal and faithful girlfriend would not have done.  The fact that she stopped it several months before I got home and had been faithful to me as a wife all along did really change the hurt.  The fact that she did those things, then hid it from me, really made it feel as if she had cheated on me the very day I found out. I know what you are feeling, and I know what it took for us to heal that wound so please take some advise.

There is nothing wrong about feeling that hurt over it, at least at the start.  The hurt comes from the meaning you attach to his actions.  You are attaching a meaning to his actions that says his use of porn is a reflection of his feelings and commitment to you, that his using porn is morally equivalent to adultery.  Both of those ideas are wrong.  His porn use is a symptom of his condition that he needs help with.  How the church deals with a case of adultery is very different than how it deals with porn usage because they are not morally equivalent (although both wrong).  If you choose to cling to interpreting his actions as you do now, you needlessly amplify your pain and slow or even prevent healing.

It is not a matter of whose sin is worse, it is a matter of what sin is yours.  Denial, downplaying the seriousness of it, getting defensive, these are not the steps of repentance, that is hardening your heart.  And even before you made your mistake,  not forgiving your husbands porn usage and hanging onto that anger leaves you guilty of the greater sin.