Fountain Pen Fun

[SilentOne]

Oops, I waited longer than intended to find these things out. He does have arthritis in his hands and does still write with a pen at times. He doesn't need to press down on the paper to write. And I will look for a writing sample.

The top picture is a yellow legal pad, to give a size reference.

Edited June 5, 2023 by SilentOne

[zil2]

Depending on the brand of pen, that's an EF or F (most likely), possibly an M from some Japanese brands.

The indentations in the paper indicate a lot of pressure being used - required for ballpoints.  Note that this degree of pressure can ruin a fountain pen or at least prevent it from writing, so he may need to learn to relax his grip on the pen (or at least not press down hard).

The next thing you need to decide is your budget (PM me if you prefer) - you'll want a pen, paper, and ink.  (Normal paper doesn't work well with the vast majority of fountain pen inks - and finding an ink that would go well with his legal pads could be a career in itself.)

If you haven't already, set a price range on pens and look around on these websites:

• Goldspot
• JetPens
• GouletPens

Some can be found on Amazon, too, and often for less (though paper is often more expensive on Amazon).  Right now, the main point is to find pens you (think he will) like the look of - then I can help you pick out ones that are good quality and help you with nib size.  NOTE: There's a Chinese pen that I would highly recommend, but I know some people don't want to buy Chinese...  This pen is an exception to the stereotype - it's an excellent pen.  Costs $20.

For ink, I just need to know the color and once we pick the pen, I can make some recommendations.

For paper, there are two routes you can go: buy known-good brands online, or go to a big box store and look for paper made in Vietnam: Staples have some, WalMart Exceed or Pen & Gear will have some - you have to look for the "made in Vietnam" on the individual unit since they can be mixed, and CVS Pharmacies have some legal-type pads with the brand name "Caliber" that are said to be friendly.  Also, one guy reported that the Amazon Basics legal pads are friendly.  The biggest issue with all these is that there's no telling when the manufacturing plant will change something and the paper won't be good for fountain pens anymore.  With known-good brands (mostly Japanese, French, and British papers), consistency is part of the brand, so you can buy with confidence - though actual legal pads aren't easy to find.  I can give more specifics when you're ready.

[SilentOne]

@zil2

Thank you for the time and effort you've put into this. I ended up busier than expected recently, so I decided to put off the fountain pen gift until the next gifting occasion. Sorry. I should be able to make time to compare options and make a considered choice before Christmas.

Edited June 15, 2023 by SilentOne

[zil2]

49 minutes ago, SilentOne said:

@zil2

Thank you for the time and effort you've put into this. I ended up busier than expected recently, so I decided to put off the fountain pen gift until the next gifting occasion. Sorry. I should be able to make time to compare options and make a considered choice before Christmas.

No worries!  FP people are happy to talk FPs any time, even if it doesn't result in penabling.

[SilentOne]

Are there any wooden fountain pens?

[zil2]

13 minutes ago, SilentOne said:

Are there any wooden fountain pens?

There are fountain pens with wood bodies and caps, but the grip section will be plastic or metal - the liquid fountain pen ink comes in contact with the grip section, so wood wouldn't work.  IMO, the ones you get on Amazon are mostly junk.  If you like, I can look / ask around for some reputable brands with wood bodies.  I think Faber-Castell have one, and Pilot do, but I think those are all ridiculously high end.

An inexpensive one that I think is worth trying out is the Jinhao 51A (Chinese pen), which has a metal cap, plastic grip, and wood body (with various types of wood available).

Wood is problematic because it can expand, contract, and crack.

[SilentOne]

Asking around is unlikely to do any harm and has the possibility of helping, so that would be nice.

I tried to question my dad about his preferences for pens, and got that he has liked thicker and thinner pens and balance matters more to him than barrel width, and that he likes the look of wood. I don't know if I'll be able to get any more information without being too obvious about what I'm doing.

[zil2]

9 hours ago, SilentOne said:

Asking around is unlikely to do any harm and has the possibility of helping, so that would be nice.

Check out this JetPens.com link.  Don't buy anything until we talk about nib sizes!  (Japanese and western nibs are considerably different despite using the same size designations, and there's variation between brands.)

I've never heard of Tenny Traveler or E+M, so I can't comment on their quality.

Faber-Castell are quality pens with really smooth nibs, and the Ambition and Ondoro come in a variety of woods.

The Pilot Custom Kaede is popular and Pilot are exceptional when it comes to quality.  If you think you want this pen, you need to buy it this year because prices go up significantly on 01 January 2024.  The nice thing about this pen is Pilot's QC - there's almost no risk when buying a Pilot pen, and if something is wrong, their service is excellent.  (The biggest problem is that the medium nib is out of stock at JetPens and I'm not seeing another US retailer carrying it right now, so Amazon (Japanese seller) is the only source I'm finding for a medium.  Of course, we'd have to talk nib sizes, but most folks are more likely to want a medium than a fine.)

Platinum (another Japanese company) are also very reliable, but I can't recommend buying a pen this expensive as a person's first (or first after a long break) fountain pen.

Goldspot.com have another F-C (E-Motion) and a couple of Laban to add to the list.

If the prices on all of those are too steep, I can look for reviews on another Jinhao pen - the 9056.  The biggest problem with Jinhao pens is that you never know when you're going to get one that shouldn't have passed QC...  If you need to go the inexpensive route, we can talk more about how best to ensure the pen you give your dad works well.

Anywho, look around and let me know where you'd like more info.

[SilentOne]

That $20 to $100 jump is a lot. If I'm planning to also get paper and ink, I think I'd better go for a Jinhao.

[zil2]

13 minutes ago, SilentOne said:

That $20 to $100 jump is a lot. If I'm planning to also get paper and ink, I think I'd better go for a Jinhao.

  Yep, it's a big jump.  So, let's talk about some details:

The 9056 is a very large pen.  The 51A is a more normal diameter.  After checking some reviews, I'd say it comes down to personal taste which one you get.  With the 9056, if there's a nib problem, it's easy to replace the nib with a #6 nib from any online pen shop (the nib will cost almost as much as the pen - $16 right now - example).  The 51A may not be so easy to buy a replacement nib for, though sometimes there are 5-packs on Amazon - the nib will also be harder to change on the 51A - a lot harder.

The primary benefit of the 51A's hooded nib is that it will take longer for the ink to dry on the nib when the pen is uncapped (also when it's capped, actually).  (Depending on the ink and the environment, the ink can dry on a normal nib in anywhere from 10 seconds to a minute or two when the pen is uncapped and idle - that's just a fact of fountain pen life - you cap the pen when not writing.  You get more cap-off time with hooded nibs.)  This pen also has a slip or snap cap (not sure which), which is faster to cap and uncap.  One downside is that you don't get to see the nib.

This pen is only sold in EF on Amazon (which is a western EF).  So that may also impact your choice.

The 9056 has a screw cap and an inner cap and some silicone o-rings which makes me think it will do better keeping the ink from drying out in the pen when the pen is unused.  This is also a part of fountain pen life - with rare exception, pens can't go weeks unused and still write.  It's best to use them every day or two.  The 9056 is available in fine or medium.  Without knowing anything, I'd recommend the fine, but we should talk about how large or small your dad writes - can you find either the pens he uses now and see what size they are (e.g. gel pens usually have a mm size (.5 or .7) and ballpoints are often labeled fine or medium) or see how large he writes on paper - do his letters fill the entire line on lined paper?  How wide is the line spacing?  All that will tell us whether to go for fine or medium.  IMO, better to err on the size of too small than too large - you can't write small letters with a fat nib (the loops are filled in), but you can write large letters with a fine nib.

From the reviews, it does seem like this is a newer model with better quality and design than older models of Jinhao, so I'd guess the 9056 will feel like a better quality pen than the 51A.

Both pens include converters (Anatomy of a Fountain Pen - shows converters eventually), so you can use bottled ink.  Amazon is not the best place from which to order bottled ink, and winter is not the best time of the year to order bottled ink, but it could work (just don't let the package sit outside for hours lest the ink freeze).  Amazon sometimes don't package ink securely either - every package of broken ink posted on reddit came from Amazon.  If you don't mind ordering the ink and paper from another retailer, that would be the safer bet.  We can talk about ink and paper in separate posts.

If you want to see the 9056 in a man's hand, you can watch this review.  And the same guy with a 51a (different version, but the pen diameter appears to be the same as the wood one with the hooded nib).

Let me know what questions you have or what you want to talk about next.

[zil2]

Ink questions: What color(s) are of interest?  Will he need to fill away from home, or will he mostly be using the pen at home?  (Some people really prefer ink cartridges, which are disposable and can be carried and replaced "on the go", but they're more expensive per mL and don't offer as many colors.  There are thousands of colors of bottled ink.)  Is water resistance important?

Paper question: what uses will be made: letters, a journal, just ordinary notes that get tossed, etc.  This will help us choose what paper to buy.

NOTE: You should get a bulb syringe (snot sucker) from the baby aisle in the grocery store - these will speed cleaning the pen immensely. (See the third video in this Fountain Pen 101 series for cleaning, including doing so with a bulb syringe.)  One that can be disassembled for cleaning would help to ensure mold doesn't build up inside the bulb.

Edited December 7, 2023 by zil2

[SilentOne]

It'll probably be mostly used at home, and probably for disposable notes. But he still might prefer cartridges - and I am now wondering if having trouble with fine motor skill type tasks would make a fountain pen inadvisable?

[zil2]

41 minutes ago, SilentOne said:

It'll probably be mostly used at home, and probably for disposable notes. But he still might prefer cartridges - and I am now wondering if having trouble with fine motor skill type tasks would make a fountain pen inadvisable?

So, if a person uses only one ink, and uses the pen every day or two (or a few if in a less arid environment than Utah), then cleaning isn't required nearly as often.  And changing cartridges is probably easier for such a person than filling from a bottle of ink.  But cleaning may be more difficult - you could watch the video and see how the bulb syringe is used - I would think the bulb syringe operation wouldn't be the problem, but attaching it might be.

If ink keeps flowing through the pen regularly, especially daily, then one could go indefinitely without cleaning the pen - months, a year, maybe longer - as long as ink keeps flowing through it.

(Black Jinhao Cartridges, blue is a variant on the same page.)

For paper that will just be used for scribbling notes, look at WalMart for Pen+Gear brand or Exceed - anything with "Made in Vietnam" on it will be good for fountain pens with up to a medium nib.  It's the cheapest option I know.  Pen+Gear have spiral notebooks, maybe composition books; Exceed have hard and soft cover journals.  Just make sure they say "Made in Vietnam" on them.

Alternative to FPs:

If you wanted to go with something easier than a fountain pen, but still a nice pen, the Parker Jotter (ballpoint and gel version) is rather popular pen with classic looks.  You can get yourself to the $35 free shipping by getting two (or one XL) and refills and / or paper - every paper on that site ought to be good with ballpoint or gel ink (though it'll be more expensive than the stuff at WalMart, which is surprisingly good paper).

[NeuroTypical]

I keep hoping to eventually have a lifestyle that will allow me sufficient time each week to break out the pen & ink that @zil2 so kindly sent me those years ago, and do it justice.

[zil2]

2 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

I keep hoping to eventually have a lifestyle that will allow me sufficient time each week to break out the pen & ink that @zil2 so kindly sent me those years ago, and do it justice.

IMO, it's a choice.  When I decided to become the sort of person who spends time in the Book of Mormon every day, some entertainment had to go.  When I decided my scripture study was lacking unless I wrote down my thoughts and impressions during that study¹, more entertainment had to go.  When the kitty arrived, still more other forms of entertainment had to go.  When Jamie's Book of Mormon reading invitation came, lots more entertainment had to go.  My backlog of unwatched YouTube videos is staggering at this point...

But if you can't find a way to integrate your pen into your daily life (like journaling your scripture study), then, yeah, the pen will have to wait until something write-worthy gains priority - like, say, writing letters to your daughters.

¹Most of the notes go into my journal with my fountain pen, but I still highlight, tag, and annotate in the Gospel Library app.  It mostly depends on how personal the note is (journal) vs. whether it's something I might want to share or have the next time I read the passage (app).  Sometimes, I put notes in both places.

[SilentOne]

@zil2  Thank you for all the info and suggestions. I'll do a little pondering and praying and hopefully have a present bought soon.

[Carborendum]

What is so special about the bent nib fountain pens?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=wJDWm1DMRe4

Edited December 8, 2023 by Carborendum

[zil2]

7 hours ago, SilentOne said:

@zil2  Thank you for all the info and suggestions. I'll do a little pondering and praying and hopefully have a present bought soon.

Best wishes figuring out the perfect gift!  I know that can be a difficult decision.  (Perhaps you should get yourself the fountain pen and use it to write him letters.   If I had a choice between getting a pen from Dad or a letter from Dad, I'd choose the letter every single time.)

[zil2]

26 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

What is so special about the bent nib fountain pens?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=wJDWm1DMRe4

  Peter is a strange fellow. Fude nibs:

(from this page (not the same artist): https://sketchbookskool.com/blog/sailor-fountain-pen/ )

If you start the video at 8:34, Peter demonstrates.  What's so special is that they can create a range of line widths depending on the angle to the page and whether you turn them upside down (called reverse writing).  Generally speaking, this is most useful for artists and they are probably the target users, but you can use them for writing text, if you wish.

There's a very wide range of specialty nibs.  The "common" nibs have mostly round tipping at the end of the nib and make a single line width regardless of the direction in which the pen moves (the letter O has the same line width around the circle).  They come in different sizes (extra-fine, fine, medium, and broad being the most common) and the line width corresponds to the size.  These are most like other types of pens.

Then there are stub and italic nibs which make a wider line going down and a narrow line going across.  The architect or Hebrew grind does the opposite - narrow down-stroke, wide cross-stroke.  Flexible nibs allow one to write Spencerian or Copperplate style text (where a portion of the stroke is wider and a portion very fine, without changing the direction of the stroke):

 

And many, many others.