Gentle Parenting

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

1 minute ago, Backroads said:

This response seems to suggest anyone who didn't have Gentle Parenting just happened to luck out.

There are some very kind and loving authoritarian parents out there with great kids.

I agree.  I didn't mean to criticize any parenting style or kind loving, parents.  My point was that we don't all learn good parenting from our parents as some people are horrible at parenting.  

 

[Backroads]

1 hour ago, The Folk Prophet said:

I'm still pondering this, but: apparently according tot he Gentle Parenting theory, the taking away the screens idea is less than ideal because it teaches motivation based on extrinsic things. I'm not exactly sure how I feel about that yet or how to specifically apply discipline without punishment, but since I'd just been reading on the matter and saw your reply I thought I'd throw it out there.

One of my class policies is no butting in line. We are all going to the same place anyway. One little boy lately has to walk with me because he butts in line. Why? He figures if we are all going to the same place, it doesn't matter if he shoves his way in at the front.

What I'm saying, you may not need to let kids keep screens against your judgment just because of the worry of extrinsic motivation. 

[Guest MormonGator]

1 minute ago, LiterateParakeet said:

I agree.  I didn't mean to criticize any parenting style or kind loving, parents.  My point was that we don't all learn good parenting from our parents as some people are horrible at parenting.  

 

Parenting is tough. I'm not a parent and I see that. Sometimes you need to be sweet as pie, sometimes you need to be tough as nails. But if you come down too hard, you alienate your kids. Come down too soft-they walk all over you. 

Edited October 9, 2017 by MormonGator

[Grunt]

Just now, LiterateParakeet said:

I agree.  I didn't mean to criticize any parenting style or kind loving, parents.  My point was that we don't all learn good parenting from our parents as some people are horrible at parenting.  

 

I think we learn much from our parents, including what NOT to do.  I'm very aware that my children adopt my habits and learn from my actions.  I try not to practice "do what I say, not what I do" with the exception of some things that come with adulthood.  My children learn from me, even when I'd rather they didn't.  It's one of the things that caused me to seek out church.  I want to teach my children to be a better person than I am and that comes from being the example.

[Backroads]

56 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

Yep. No problems out there with drugs, homosexuality, suicide, murder, pregnancy out of wedlock, abandonment of religion, entitlement, etc., etc. We've done an awesome job!

And yet there are still an awful lot of decent people out there.

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

1 minute ago, Grunt said:

I think we learn much from our parents, including what NOT to do. 

That is true.  ...This might not be what you meant, but what came to my mind...

I never drank alcohol even when their was great peer pressure (from my LDS friends, go figure) because I had no respect for my parents when they were drunk.  

I think a lot of my parenting was instinctive...I instinctively gave my children what I did NOT receive as a child...safety, love, attention and respect.  

[Grunt]

2 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

Parenting is tough. I'm not a parent and I see that. Sometimes you need to be sweet as pie, sometimes you need to be tough as nails. But if you come down too hard, you alienate your kids. Come down too soft-they walk all over you. 

I believe that is why having a father and mother is very important in a family unit.  In my family, my wife and I have different personalities.  We are united on rules, but not always in the enforcement of them.  For example, I tell my children to do something once.  "Feed the dog".  The dog gets fed.  They know I'm only going to say it once.  My wife, on the other hand, will keep reminding them.  The children know they don't need to act on the first order.  They have at least two, maybe three before they have to stop playing and actually do it.  I believe, based only on my own relationship and that of my mother, that this is, to varying degrees, one of the differences between men and women.  I have nothing to base that on beyond observations in my family and speaking with others.

Half the time she doesn't even realize she's doing it.  

[Guest MormonGator]

19 minutes ago, Grunt said:

I believe that is why having a father and mother is very important in a family unit. 

We totally agree on that, that's for sure. I love my mom of course but I can't imagine life without my old man. 

Edited October 9, 2017 by MormonGator

[The Folk Prophet]

1 hour ago, Grunt said:

Those are cultural and moral issues that won't be corrected by "gentle parenting".

 

Which is not what I said, of course.

[The Folk Prophet]

32 minutes ago, Backroads said:

There are some very kind and loving authoritarian parents out there with great kids.

There are some very mean and unkind authoritarian parents out there with great kids too.

[Grunt]

2 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

Which is not what I said, of course.

Of course what?  You suggested we haven't done a good job parenting and presented a list of examples to support your statement.  I pointed out that those aren't the result of parenting styles, but the failure of society and our culture.  

What exactly are you trying to say, then?  I'm not quite sure.  

[The Folk Prophet]

28 minutes ago, Backroads said:

One of my class policies is no butting in line. We are all going to the same place anyway. One little boy lately has to walk with me because he butts in line. Why? He figures if we are all going to the same place, it doesn't matter if he shoves his way in at the front.

What I'm saying, you may not need to let kids keep screens against your judgment just because of the worry of extrinsic motivation. 

I agree. The idea is not that we allow kids to do whatever they want. If your child is hitting, you stop them from hitting. If they are stealing, you stop the stealing. Etc. I think the idea is that if you then apply a separate punishment that is unrelated in anyway just for the sake of punishment that it is not productive. The example used is timeouts. Why this resonates with me is because I remember being put on time out as a kid (with my mother it was in the form of putting our noses on the wall). The typical idea behind a punishment of this sort is that the child should, theoretically, learn to curb behavior. But children don't tend to associate the punishment to the behavior. When I sat with my nose on the wall I never thought, "I sure was wrong in hitting my sister." What I thought, instead, was, "This is so unfair. I hate mom!" etc. And I behaved, for the moment, by sitting their quietly with my nose on the wall, so that I could get my nose off the wall and get back to my interests, which included fighting with my sisters. Moreover, when and if I did curb my behavior for the sake of not being punished, it taught me behavior based on avoidance of punishment, which as we know is not the right reason to do anything. (For the same reasons, the principle of no rewards is also part of gentle parenting, it seems). The idea is to teach children that we do what is right because it is right.

Anyhow...if a child is spending too much time on a "screen" then taking away the screen makes sense -- not as a punishment, per se, but along the same lines as literally stopping a child from hitting another. You do not allow wrong behavior within the concepts of gentle parenting, as I understand it. You just address it differently than the traditional, "go get my belt," or "you're on timeout now" response.

[The Folk Prophet]

9 minutes ago, Grunt said:

Of course what?  You suggested we haven't done a good job parenting and presented a list of examples to support your statement.  I pointed out that those aren't the result of parenting styles, but the failure of society and our culture.  

What exactly are you trying to say, then?  I'm not quite sure.  

What I am trying to say is that parenting has, and is, failing, as should be obvious by the state of the world, that the idea that we (as a society) have done just fine at parenting is ludicrous, and that the root of the problem is, as much as anything, that there are a great many people out there who believe there is nothing wrong with the way the world has been parenting.

What I am not trying to say is that "gentle parenting" is the answer, and your implication that I am trying to say that is wrong.

[Grunt]

6 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

What I am trying to say is that parenting has, and is, failing, as should be obvious by the state of the world, that the idea that we (as a society) have done just fine at parenting is ludicrous, and that the root of the problem is, as much as anything, that there are a great many people out there who believe there is nothing wrong with the way the world has been parenting.

What I am not trying to say is that "gentle parenting" is the answer, and your implication that I am trying to say that is wrong.

Ahh.  I think we're confusing two different things.  The first is parenting styles, which was what the comment you took issue with was addressing.  With regard to parenting styles, I think society has been successful.  

With regard to parenting topics, which is what I believe you are trying to attribute to my comment, we've failed.  As I pointed out, though, that isn't a result of the technique or style, it is a result of the decline of morals and culture through the content of parental teaching.

I asked this earlier but may have missed the response.  How old are your children?

Edited October 9, 2017 by Grunt

[The Folk Prophet]

1 minute ago, Grunt said:

Ahh.  I think we're confusing two different things.  The first is parenting styles, which was what the comment you took issue with was addressing.  With regard to parenting styles, I think society has been successful.  

So, in your mind, the snowflake generation is not a direct result of the "everyone is special" - prizes-all-around parenting style.

32 minutes ago, Grunt said:

I asked this earlier but may have missed the response.  How old are your children?

I will not answer this question. It is not information I care to share with random strangers on the internet.

[Grunt]

1 minute ago, The Folk Prophet said:

So, in your mind, the snowflake generation is not a direct result of the "everyone is special" - prizes-all-around parenting style.

 

Perhaps. I believe there is more to it than that.  Regardless, that is a recent occurrence, particularly when compared to thousands of years of parenting.  Again, I think "gentle parenting" would contribute to that phenomenon more than subtract from it.  "Do you know how tired I am of cleaning your crumbs off the couch?"

 

5 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

I will not answer this question. It is not information I care to share with random strangers on the internet.

 

Fair enough.  Do you have children?

[Grunt]

18 hours ago, The Folk Prophet said:

Interesting. I cannot speak from experience on this one. Most of my experience related to young children is as an older brother, and back in that day parenting was pretty much all about authoritarianism.

1

Never mind.  It looks like I found my answer.  Your parental expertise apparently comes from reading.  That isn't a bad thing and it's good you take an interest, but much of what I felt I knew about parenting went out the window when I actually became a parent.  The execution is much different than the theory.    I do see why you were unwilling to answer the question, though.

[Backroads]

20 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

So, in your mind, the snowflake generation is not a direct result of the "everyone is special" - prizes-all-around parenting style.

To butt in, I would respond yes and no. 

I mock snowflake parenting, but I also would say the phenomenon is true and also very big and complex. It truly is a culture thing as well as parenting.

[The Folk Prophet]

9 minutes ago, Grunt said:

 Again, I think "gentle parenting" would contribute to that phenomenon more than subtract from it.  "Do you know how tired I am of cleaning your crumbs off the couch?"

And this re-enforces my belief that you don't understand the concept at all. You've taken a single quote without considering the ideas behind it, and defined the entire philosophy in your mind based on that quote. I agree that saying "do you know how tired I am of cleaning your crumbs off the couch" is not ideal. I also, having actually taking the time to read and consider the philosophy, believe it to be a poor application of the philosophy, rather than a prime example. And I understand that a poor application of a philosophical idea does not render the philosophy mistaken.

9 minutes ago, Grunt said:

Your parental expertise apparently comes from reading.  

Actually I've read hardly anything until the last few days. My parental expertise (or lack thereof) comes from decades of consideration weighed against having come from a family of 9 kids, with most of my brothers and sisters all following in that same path of large families (with 10, 8, 7, etc., sized families), watching, thinking, discussing, pondering, etc.

Regardless, I consider the, I've-been-a-parent-so-my-views-are-valid, idea the worst sort of logical nonsense.

[The Folk Prophet]

5 minutes ago, Backroads said:

I mock snowflake parenting, but I also would say the phenomenon is true and also very big and complex. It truly is a culture thing as well as parenting.

Sort of. I agree that it is a cultural thing as well as parenting in the same regards that youth are abandoning religion in droves is a cultural as well as a parenting thing. But the core of culture is family and the core of family is parenting.

[Grunt]

Just now, The Folk Prophet said:

And this re-enforces my belief that you don't understand the concept at all. You've taken a single quote without considering the ideas behind it, and defined the entire philosophy in your mind based on that quote. I agree that saying "do you know how tired I am of cleaning your crumbs off the couch" is not ideal. I also, having actually taking the time to read and consider the philosophy, believe it to be a poor application of the philosophy, rather than a prime example. And I understand that a poor application of a philosophical idea does not render the philosophy mistaken.

2

You repeat that, but I've stated it isn't true.  I absolutely understand the ideas behind it.  They're summed up in that quote, just as the author intended.  I've also supported aspects of that philosphy when others have described their practice.  As a whole, however, my rejection of it doesn't indicate a misunderstanding of it.  

I could say the same about your understanding as well.  When combined with your lack of parenting experience, the fact that you ignore the provided example reinforces my belief that you don't quite understand the concept you are promoting.

3 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

Regardless, I consider the, I've-been-a-parent-so-my-views-are-valid, idea the worst sort of logical nonsense.

 

My views are valid because I've supported them, explained them, and lived them.  It's easy to espouse views you have no experience with.   All irrelevant to the discussion, but it does lend credibility to the discussion.  When my favorite parakeet describes philosophies she's employed it carries far more weight than philosophies someone has read about.

That's all.

[The Folk Prophet]

8 minutes ago, Grunt said:

You repeat that, but I've stated it isn't true.  I absolutely understand the ideas behind it.  They're summed up in that quote, just as the author intended.  I've also supported aspects of that philosphy when others have described their practice.  As a whole, however, my rejection of it doesn't indicate a misunderstanding of it.  

I could say the same about your understanding as well.  When combined with your lack of parenting experience, the fact that you ignore the provided example reinforces my belief that you don't quite understand the concept you are promoting.

My views are valid because I've supported them, explained them, and lived them.  It's easy to espouse views you have no experience with.   All irrelevant to the discussion, but it does lend credibility to the discussion.  When my favorite parakeet describes philosophies she's employed it carries far more weight than philosophies someone has read about.

That's all.

Well...okay then. Thank you for your input random stranger on the internet.

 

Edited October 9, 2017 by The Folk Prophet

[Grunt]

2 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

Well...okay then. Thank you for your input random stranger on the internet.

 

You're most welcome, random thread-starter requesting input from random strangers on the internet.

[zil]

1 minute ago, Grunt said:

You're most welcome, random thread-starter requesting input from random strangers on the internet.

About articles written by strangers on the internet.

[The Folk Prophet]

19 minutes ago, zil said:

About articles written by strangers on the internet.

So what do we have to go on? Does a "my experience tells me" reply, in and of itself, actually count for much of anything? Or should we depend on gospel principles, logic and reason, and studies and science?

Random person 1: Here is a philosophy based on the latest scientific understanding of child development.

Random person 2: This resonates with me because it seems to align with my idea of gospel principles.

Random person 3: My experience tells me that if I don't beat my children daily they'd be spoiled. I beat my children daily and they're not spoiled, so that proves it. Bah humbug to your child development science, trendy hippy catch-phrases, and interest in being Christ-like. My experience is superior!*

Share with me scientific data, logic, and application of gospel principles and I'll consider what is said.

* I am well aware that I am exaggerating things and this is not exactly what has been said.