Pornography, Infidelity, and the Law of Chasity


Grunt
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I see many of the issues marriages have on this forum involve pornography.  A question was asked in another thread about how pornography can exist in other relationships and not have a negative impact.  The answer, really, is many (most?) people don't view pornography and masturbation the way LDS do, at least on the male side.  Pornography is normal for many males.  It starts at a young age behind the garage decades ago with a SEARS catalog looking at underwear advertisements with your friends.  It progresses from there.  Heck, even television alludes to sex and pornography or features actors with less than modest clothing.  It's just normal, culturally.

The same applies to masturbation.  It starts as a toddler.  Without someone telling you "this is bad, don't do this", you grow up thinking it's normal.  After all, it is "your" equipment.  I still haven't found anything in the church that says masturbation is bad (but I'm sure I'm about to be bombarded with it).  

It has been my experience that men and women view sex differently.  There is a physical and emotional aspect to sex and many men separate the two.  I can sit across the room with my wife, make eye contact, and have that emotional response.  It's an intimacy that can manifest anywhere, including sex.  Likewise, I could have sex and NOT feel that intimacy.  If I viewed porn or was unfaithful to my spouse, it wouldn't change the way I feel about her or affect my intimacy.  

What I feel it comes down to is respect and an understanding of the family unit.  I remain faithful to my wife for MANY reasons (beyond the fact that nobody else would have me).  I love her.  I respect her.  I'm committed to my family.  Those three things alone are probably what causes me to not even desire another woman.  I could probably list a million other reasons.  Society and culture are changing, though.  It's acceptable now or even encouraged, to put yourself first.  People are no longer fulfilled by family because they're taught to pursue more.  I believe people confuse fantasy with reality.  They view pornography or television where the illicit affair is romantic and want it in their life.  They want the fantasy to be real and they don't even realize they are pursuing it.  I could never have sex with my wife again and be just as committed to her years from now as I am today, with zero possibility that I would stray from our marriage.

None of that has anything to do with God, the church, or the Law of Chastity.  It has to do with character, integrity, and being a man.  

 

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4 minutes ago, Grunt said:

It has to do with character, integrity, and being a man.  

 

I'm gonna hold off on bombarding you with teachings against masturbation...

This really impresses me.  The "being a man" part.  That used to mean something before.  It is sad that it doesn't mean anything anymore in the USA today.  My husband and I taught our kids what it means to be a man.  It's not something they learn from the environment anymore.

General Kelly gave this press conference yesterday about soldiers dying in the battlefield.  I was crying after his spiel (and I'm not the type to do this - I don't cry in testimonies, I don't cry watching movies, etc.).  Anyway, his speech about things that we used to hold sacred really stuck me.

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Some Book of Mormon verses that I feel apply here:

Quote

Behold, their husbands love their wives, and their wives love their husbands; and their husbands and their wives love their children; and their unbelief and their hatred towards you is because of the iniquity of their fathers. . . (Jacob 3:7)

25 Wherefore, he has given a law; and where there is no law given there is no punishment; and where there is no punishment there is no condemnation; and where there is no condemnation the mercies of the Holy One of Israel have claim upon them, because of the atonement; for they are delivered by the power of him.

26 For the atonement satisfieth the demands of his justice upon all those who have not the law given to them, that they are delivered from that awful monster, death and hell, and the devil, and the lake of fire and brimstone, which is endless torment; and they are restored to that God who gave them breath, which is the Holy One of Israel.

27 But wo unto him that has the law given, yea, that has all the commandments of God, like unto us, and that transgresseth them, and that wasteth the days of his probation, for awful is his state!

(2 Nephi 25: 25-27)

Perhaps, those who grow up in a society and are not taught that pornography is wrong are less affected because they are unaware of the law.  No law = no punishment.  Unaware of the law could mean even reduced effects even in this life?

Seems like those of us who have the law get the proverbial short end of the stick!  Except I'd rather have the blessings that come from living the law!

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I for one am sure glad the Church has taught me that pornography is wrong!

If I was not in the Church, I could see myself laughing at the anti-pornography people, the way I currently roll my eyes at people who say things like "video games s turn people into homicidal zombies" and "rock and roll music is the devil's music and brainwashes youth".  

The difference, of course, is pornography is different from playing video games or listening to rock music in that it is actually very, very harmful.  This site is full of heartbreaking stories about good men who got involved in porn and cannot leave it alone, even as their families are falling apart.  This site is also full of stories about men who start out using porn and then have their sins escalate far beyond what they ever could have imagined before.

If I were not in the Church, I could see myself failing to figure out that pornography is highly addictive and very dangerous until it was too late.

It is kind of scary, because on the surface pornography appears harmless, but in reality nothing could be further from the truth.

Luckily, I am in the Church, and thanks to the Church's prophetic warnings, I have steered clear of pornography so far.

Edited by DoctorLemon
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Interesting insights. In my middle age, I have found the differences between the sexes in their response to sex to be an indication of what the sexual act means to each sex.

Men are broadly stereotyped as separating sex from its emotional foundations more than women do. I think this is true and also very false, depending on how you're viewing it. It is my observation that sex is more "natural" for a man, in the sense that it's simply a part of his worldview, probably from birth. Men relate to the world, and especially to women, through the lens of sexuality. The act of sex itself touches a man deeply. It changes him, for better or worse. A man feels his love for his wife through sex. He may know that he loves her, and he may act the part; but in some ways, he experiences the joy and bonding of love through sex, and only through sex. I say this as one looking from the inside, and even if my words don't make much sense to women, I know whereof I speak. I have heard and read other men make the same sorts of statements, so I'm pretty sure this is a general male trait and not just me.

So when a man engages in perverse sex, whether with a prostitute or with multiple women or with men (possibly even with his own wife), he is actively destroying his spirit. He unlearns what is natural to him; to associate sex with love, adoration, and protectiveness toward his sexual partner. Instead, it becomes a powerful narcotic, because the act of sex itself stimulates powerful feelings of well-being and wholeness. But it's all a sham; perverted sex offers neither well-being nor wholeness, but quite the opposite. So a whoremonger, in wasting his strength and sexual desire upon a paid masturbatory flesh toy, destroys the very thing that gives his life joy and meaning. Beyond broken marriages and broken covenants, it breaks his very soul. This explains why pornography is such a very powerful attraction to the average man, and also why it is often so deeply damaging.

For women, the situation seems somewhat different. I speak about women as an external observer, so I'm less confident in the correctness of my insights, even as I'm more confident of the impartiality of my wording. Women are broadly (npi) stereotyped as tightly coupling sex with emotion. Again, this is both true and very false, depending on how you look at it. For a women, the sexual experience seems different from a  man's in fundamental ways. It appears that, for a woman, there is no natural fusion of sex and joy; the mere act of having sex with a man does not necessarily fill her soul with love for him. It is a physical act, and from her point of view, a sweaty, smelly, uncomfortable, and often painful (at least at first) physical act. A virtuous wife gets her joy in sex, certainly at first and probably throughout her life, primarily from the emotional element that sex can (conditional -- not guaranteed) bring.

The physical element of enjoyment develops with time and experience, and can certainly be as physically intense as for a man, perhaps moreso. But the psychological element is, for women, a learned thing, and not something that simply comes with the female brain, as it does with the male. And the feelings of completeness and wholeness appear for a woman to be only loosely coupled, or maybe not coupled at all, with sex. Typically, it's something she enjoys, but it's not as big a deal to her as it is to her husband. She often engages in sex "for him" -- which drives the husband crazy. Why doesn't SHE experience the same emotional satisfaction that HE does? What's wrong with her? Or is it his fault -- he's not a "good enough lover"? Neither of those; rather, he has a male brain that experiences sex and its fallout in one way, and she has a female brain that experiences it in another.

So how does prostitution affect a women psychologically? I would guess that it further separates sex from healthy love even further than would otherwise be the case. I have read many former prostitutes say something along the lines of how they can never have a really intimate sexual relationship with a man. So that's pretty devastating. But on the other hand, such things generally don't seem to drive the woman to lifelong perversion in all aspects of her life. She retains the ability to function in most social situations. It seems (at least from my vantage point) that perverted sex harms both men and women, but it tends to harm men much more deeply and in more intimate psychological ways.

This is talking about my observations and thoughts regarding general sexual relations. Forcible rape is a different topic, something that from the (male) rapist's point of view might have to do with sex, but only incidentally so for the (female) victim. (The female-rapist/male-victim pattern seems much different; I would guess there is not one incident in a thousand of such couplings that can be classified as forcible rape. That's not to justify it, just to say I don't think it's the same phenomenon.) So my above thoughts do not apply to situations of forcible rape.

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3 minutes ago, DoctorLemon said:

The difference, of course, is pornography is different from playing video games or listening to rock music in that it is actually very, very harmful. 

As someone who grew up playing video games and listening to rock music, I am not at all sure they are all that different from pornography. When I was younger, I laughed at and mocked those who said such things about popular music and video games. As a middle-aged man, I'm not laughing any more, and I'm not mocking. It's possible that I'm not actually as smart as I once believed I was.

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45 minutes ago, Vort said:

As someone who grew up playing video games and listening to rock music, I am not at all sure they are all that different from pornography. When I was younger, I laughed at and mocked those who said such things about popular music and video games. As a middle-aged man, I'm not laughing any more, and I'm not mocking. It's possible that I'm not actually as smart as I once believed I was.

I don't know about Rock Music, but video games are addictive (or brain altering in unhealthy ways), not unlike porn. It is all about the dopamine hit. https://www.yourbrainonporn.com/garys-research-addiction-video-game

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

 

 

Edited by wenglund
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5 hours ago, Grunt said:

It has to do with character, integrity, and being a man.  

It used to be much of society was structured to teach boys how to become men and girls how to become women . . now it is all jacked up. 

Outside of the Church, I know of no institution that will know help me teach my son how to become a man and my daughters to become women.  And even inside the Church things are rapidly changing . . . .

See . . .what a complete weasel. This absolute BS idea that we can allow girls to become Eagle Scouts have a "parallel" program and still keep what makes BSA, BSA. What a lie. Everything in BSA is geared towards teaching boys how to become men and leaders of men.  To allow girls to obtain Eagle Scout means that we are no focusing on teaching girls to become men or we will cease to teach boys to become men b/c BSA will so drastically change the program over time to "fit the needs" of our female scouters. What a travesty . . .the requirements will be lowered, just like it has in every organization that sets out to be "gender inclusive". Simply b/c it is a fact of nature that boys/men are stronger, faster, more physical than girls/women . . .it's a fact.  And in order to ensure that women don't feel "left behind" any organization that is physical in nature inevitable dumbs down the physical standards just so the females won't feel excluded. And the sad thing is that any boy/man with half a brain knows this but just doesn't say it and eventually when the standards are dumbed down, Boy Scouts no longer becomes challenging . . .it just becomes a social club.  What a  . . .well I have not nice words for this piece of excrement.

And what's even more frustrating is one of the "Big Three" of Boy Scouts is a former Church Young Men General President, who voted for this policy change.  I've said it before, there is corruption and evilness . . .All is not well in Zion. Rather than taking a stand, BSA and the Church are bending to social justice warriors.  And yes, that is exactly what it is and it is not what I expect. And yes it is exactly what the SJWs want . . . . . one day, one day Christ will come; I hope it happens in my lifetime, 'cuz man otherwise I've got to deal with this crap for the next 50+ years . . .not my idea of a good time. I'm pretty positive in my lifetime we will see true persecution of saints and I'm not talking about "oh I just dislike you" or "I'm gonna get you fired from your job".  

The Church has had it so good for 100 years it doesn't know what persecution looks like and in the history of the world, true saints have always been persecuted.

 

Edited by JoCa
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Ah yes the great debate rages on regarding the relationship between Mormonism and video games.

To those who do not approve of gaming, I respect your choice, even if I personally see nothing wrong with gaming.  However I leave you with this parting shot: is not this very forum basically an online video game, where one wins by obtaining as many "likes" as possible, which undeniably release dopamine?  You can even "win the day" if you get enough likes.

Think about that!

Edited by DoctorLemon
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13 minutes ago, DoctorLemon said:

Ah yes the great debate rages on regarding the relationship between Mormonism and video games.

 

Some people lack the imagination/intelligence needed to grasp that other people can have different hobbies and still be members of the church in good standing. They'll throw their cane at the TV and complain that "back in my day we didn't have it, so it must be immoral." 

Sheer nonsense. LG and I just came home from a two hour gaming session at the local arcade. 

Edited by MormonGator
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15 minutes ago, DoctorLemon said:

To those who do not approve of gaming, I respect your choice, even if I personally see nothing wrong with gaming.  However I leave you with this parting shot: is not this very forum basically an online video game, where one wins by obtaining as many "likes" as possible, which undeniably release dopamine?  You can even "win the day" if you get enough likes.

Think about that!

You realize, of course, that this is less a justification of gaming and more an indictment on site participation, right?

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1 minute ago, MormonGator said:



Sheer nonsense. LG and I just came home from a two hour gaming session at the local arcade. 

Now that is something you don't see much of these days!  Was it a retro arcade or one featuring newer games?

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Just now, DoctorLemon said:

Now that is something you don't see much of these days!  Was it a retro arcade or one featuring newer games?

Totally retro bro. The beautiful LG and I played NBA Jam, Pac-Man, Ms. Pac-Man, Spy Hunter, Galaga and Gauntlet. It was so much fun! 

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5 minutes ago, Vort said:

You realize, of course, that this is less a justification of gaming and more an indictment on site participation, right?

The uncomfortable truth is I probably am a lot more addicted to this site than any video game. 

I go for weeks at a time without playing video games.  

I rarely go a day without checking in here.

Edited by DoctorLemon
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Just now, DoctorLemon said:

The uncomfortable truth is I probably am a lot more addicted to this site than any video game. 

I go for days at a time without playing video games.  

I rarely go a day without checking in here.

I have left this site for months at a time, yet here I am. My participation here has not always been profitable for myself or others, and has sometimes been at the expense of more important things. So I'm perfectly willing to posit that being on this site might not be a good thing. I certainly won't shy away from suggesting that in many cases, gaming might be a waste of time at best, and possibly something much worse. A knee-jerk denial of such a possibility, which is what I typically get when making such a statement. seems to me more of a psychological defense mechanism than a well-thought-out opinion.

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5 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

Totally retro bro. The beautiful LG and I played NBA Jam, Pac-Man, Ms. Pac-Man, Spy Hunter, Galaga and Gauntlet. It was so much fun! 

I am able to get to level 20 or further sometimes on Galaga, depending on the day.

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Just now, Vort said:

I have left this site for months at a time, yet here I am. My participation here has not always been profitable for myself or others, and has sometimes been at the expense of more important things. So I'm perfectly willing to posit that being on this site might not be a good thing. I certainly won't shy away from suggesting that in many cases, gaming might be a waste of time at best, and possibly something much worse. A knee-jerk denial of such a possibility, which is what I typically get when making such a statement. seems to me more of a psychological defense mechanism than a well-thought-out opinion.

I think if your biggest weakness is spending too much time on an LDS site, you are doing pretty well!

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Just now, DoctorLemon said:

I am able to get to level 20 or further sometimes on Galaga, depending on the day.

It's such a classic game. My favorite side scrolling shooter is R-Type, which I've always thought was the spiritual successor to Galaga. My Dad and I would play those games all afternoon. So many great memories. Shockingly he, like us, managed to make a really nice living and go to church weekly. Imagine that! 

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Just now, MormonGator said:

It's such a classic game. My favorite side scrolling shooter is R-Type, which I've always thought was the spiritual successor to Galaga. My Dad and I would play those games all afternoon. So many great memories. Shockingly he, like us, managed to make a really nice living and go to church weekly. Imagine that! 

I used to be a Street Fighter 2 expert.  Back in the 90s I used to love going to arcades and showing my skills off.  Based on my performance on the online editions these days, I think it is safe to say I have not kept up with the competition.

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Just now, DoctorLemon said:

I used to be a Street Fighter 2 expert.  Back in the 90s I used to love going to arcades and showing my skills off.  Based on my performance on the online editions these days, I think it is safe to say I have not kept up with the competition.

lol. I've lost a major step too my friend. I got the high score today in Pac-man, made it to the "melon" level, which is good for me. I'm better at Mrs. Pac Man. 

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6 minutes ago, DoctorLemon said:

I think if your biggest weakness is spending too much time on an LDS site, you are doing pretty well!

As compared with knocking over 7-11s to fund a heroin habit, I would agree. But I can't help but think that I could make far better use of my precious time than I do.

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Guest MormonGator

@DoctorLemon-a lot of times when people complain about video games, it's personal. If you said you were into car repair, they'd complain about that. Tennis? That's immoral too. Smiling, kite flying, bowling? Yup, sheer evil. Any hobby they don't personally partake in(and even those are immoral sometimes too) is obviously evil. 

That, and the older I get the more I'm convinced that some people just like complaining. It makes them feel morally superior or better about themselves in some way. 

Edited by MormonGator
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