Is There Forgiveness for Apostates After Death?


Recommended Posts

1 minute ago, Grunt said:

I'm currently watching a thread on faceplant where they are discussing whether or not green tea violates the WoW.  Very entertaining.  Apparently, as long as it isn't Lipton you're in the clear.

*scratches head at people's strangeness*  We Mormons do chat way too much about stupid or "the answer isn't known" stuff online-- that I will freely admit.  But the green tea is something stupid that has a simple answer... just why?  I don't understand people sometimes...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Rob Osborn said:

We do t have much doctrine concerning the millennium.

Exactly; while you ninnies are sitting around arguing about what you're supposed to be doing, the rest of us get to enjoy a true Paradise without all that bickering and holier-than-thou one-upmanship.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Grunt said:

I'm currently watching a thread on faceplant where they are discussing whether or not green tea violates the WoW.  Very entertaining.  Apparently, as long as it isn't Lipton you're in the clear.

I remember watching (then) Elder Kimball give a talk on the Word of Wisdom in October 1974 General Conference. Abotu half way through the talk, when he was talking about tea, I saw LeGrand Richards scratch his left ear and nod slightly. I'm pretty sure that this means that even Liptons is ok, but only during June of every second year. I'm still tracking down the appropriate references to support this, but I'm sure its in there somewhere. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 hours ago, Rob Osborn said:

We do t have much doctrine concerning the millennium. We do know that Christ will be on the earth to perfect the kingdom during that time. So, as logic points out, what are we to do for a thousand years if not to become perfect? Its not so much about "another shot" as it is a place to continue to progress.

Christ will not dwell on the earth but will visit it from time to time as Joseph said, "“That Jesus will be a resident on the earth a thousand [years] with the Saints is not the case, but will reign over the Saints and come down and instruct, as he did the five hundred brethren [see 1 Corinthians 15:6], and those of the first resurrection will also reign with him over the Saints.” (https://www.lds.org/manual/teachings-joseph-smith/chapter-21?lang=eng#note23-). Note also that the righteous saints will not dwell on the earth but will likewise visit righteous individuals on occasion. 

Sure those born during the millennium will have a chance to work and progress as did we in our time. But there is no doctrine stating that we will redo mortality during the millennium.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, james12 said:

Christ will not dwell on the earth but will visit it from time to time as Joseph said, "“That Jesus will be a resident on the earth a thousand [years] with the Saints is not the case, but will reign over the Saints and come down and instruct, as he did the five hundred brethren [see 1 Corinthians 15:6], and those of the first resurrection will also reign with him over the Saints.” (https://www.lds.org/manual/teachings-joseph-smith/chapter-21?lang=eng#note23-). Note also that the righteous saints will not dwell on the earth but will likewise visit righteous individuals on occasion. 

Sure those born during the millennium will have a chance to work and progress as did we in our time. But there is no doctrine stating that we will redo mortality during the millennium.  

Well, the scriptures actually testify that Christ will personally reign on the earth with his saints for a thousand years. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 minutes ago, Rob Osborn said:

Well, the scriptures actually testify that Christ will personally reign on the earth with his saints for a thousand years. 

"Personally Reign" and "Continuously Reside" are not necessarily the same thing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On ‎11‎/‎9‎/‎2017 at 4:10 PM, CuriousStudent101 said:

Hey guys, I'm not LDS but I've had on and off interactions with members of the Mormon Church. As a Catholic, I find the Mormon interpretation of the afterlife much more reflective of a loving and forgiving God. My understanding is that everyone gets a second chance in the spirit world after death before their final judgement. However, I know that there is still a concept of Hell (which makes sense because Scripture talks about it quite a bit), but it's reserved for Satan, his followers, and "sons of perdition."  My understanding is "sons of perdition" includes former Mormons who turn their back on the Mormon Church.

So, just to apply the whole Eternal Family concept in an example: John and Susy are faithful Mormons who are sealed in the Temple, and their three children are sealed to them. Child A goes on to be a faithful, temple worthy Mormon. Child B is a lukewarm Mormon who doesn't reject the Mormon Church but also doesn't follow all the teachings. Child C rejects the church and converts to another Christian denomination. They also have a family friend who is an atheist. Based on what I know about Mormon Doctrine, Child A would be exalted with her parents (she would need to marry to achieve full exaltation) at the resurrection, and before that, she would enjoy peace in the spirit world and maybe teach people in spirit prison. Child B and the atheist friend would go to spirit prison, and depending on the choices they make there, they would get to go to one of the three Kingdoms. But what about Child C, who is a Mormon apostate? Does he get a second chance in spirit prison, or does he go straight to Hell without hopes of redemption?

When I asked the missionaries, they didn't directly answer my question, and I couldn't seem to find a clear answer to this on lds.org. Links to additional information where answers to this question are spelled out (or just Scripture references within your answer) would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for helping me understand more.

 

I believe it is just and true to understand that everyone gets a choice.  If someone has made a true choice – I do not see any reason to ever change it.  If there was something they did not understand – how can we say it was a “true” and “honest” choice?  There is one other consideration – that is that someone does not regret their choice but they regret that they got caught or had to suffer consequences.   This idea of regretting the suffering consequences – is my understanding of the essence of lies or a liar.

I believe in justice – and I believe justice is only served when a person is informed and knows what they are doing.  Or as Jesus said, “Forgive them for they know not what they are doing.”  But for those that know full well what they are doing – I see no reason to think that under such conditions a choice will ever change.

The question we should always ask ourselves is - "Do I know what I am doing or choosing to believe and do?"  Am I making an informed choice - do I want to be informed?

 

The Traveler

Edited by Traveler
Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, Rob Osborn said:

What do you think we all will be doing? Playing harps?

 

Actually – according to scripture – how we utilize our Sabbath is a type and shadow, both for learning and indicating what we will do when we “rest” from mortality.

 

The Traveler

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Traveler said:

Actually – according to scripture – how we utilize our Sabbath is a type and shadow, both for learning and indicating what we will do when we “rest” from mortality.

Ok...the line to convert to any religion with absolutely nothing even vaguely resembling F&T Sunday forms on the left.  No pushing or cutting, please.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

On 11/10/2017 at 3:48 PM, Sunday21 said:

When I asked the missionaries, they didn't directly answer my question, and I couldn't seem to find a clear answer to this on lds.org. Links to additional information where answers to this question are spelled out (or just Scripture references within your answer) would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for helping me understand more.

Thanks for the question.

So i'll preface this with admitting that i am currently somewhere between child B and C.  i don't want to pretend that what i say is coming from any place other than that.

Some interesting links for you to read.  Personally, when i was more like child A, i found that question simple until it was applied to people whose hearts i felt i knew.  It was one of those things i just couldn't square that pushed me towards where i am at now.

http://mormonmessenger.com/progression-between-kingdoms-lds/

https://www.lds.org/ensign/2014/03/faithful-parents-and-wayward-children-sustaining-hope-while-overcoming-misunderstanding?lang=eng

 

For me, my personal view, from where i am now, is captured pretty well in book you might read by Howard Storm called 'My Descent Into Death' - where he talks about his experience in a very terrible place during his near death experience, and what it took for him to get out.  There are also some youtube videos by him also.  And of course, CS Lewis' classic, 'The Great Divorce'. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 hours ago, NightSG said:

Harping, yes.  Use of instruments, not so much.

16 hours ago, Rob Osborn said:

Well, I will be making musical instruments.

Well, look at that! Rob and I can find common ground after all.  MY BROTHER!!! (wipes tear).

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share