Dangerous Affection (Caution Long Post)


Should I tell my sister in law how I feel about her?  

15 members have voted

  1. 1. Should I tell my sister in law how I feel about her?

    • Yes, follow your passion
      2
    • Yes, if you are more happy with her potential follow that path.
      0
    • If you do...bye bye life.
      1
    • Think of your wife and kids
      11
    • Sure, but you may go to hell.
      1


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Quote

"Keep the commandments" - Lehi

Intro: Will you marry me

Years ago when my wife and I were recently married, and her younger sister was a teenager at the time, she asked me one time something along the lines of "if I was single would you marry me?" I was shocked at the question and quickly changed the subject because of the impropriety of it all. She could have asked a totally different question like "do you believe I have virtue and personal qualities that would make me someone appealing to good guys." She didn't think through the question but just gave the raw honest question. Awkward.

Fast forward some 5 or 6 years later, and now the answer is sometimes I think about that, and more. 

I think about wanting to be with my sister-in-law. Yikes or gross?

For the past two years just about every time I engage in dialogue or conversation, or if we're talking on the phone I just realize how awesome of a person she is. She also is very attractive and very down to earth. My wife, who is her older sister, is one of the best people I have ever met, and I am happily married (I will get back to this later.). She, my sister-in-law, let's call her Natalie, on our last phone call, gave me some kind compliments. Recently Natalie said, "that seeing my kids makes her want to have kids of her own" and on another occasion told my wife that she looks up to our me and my wife's marriage. I spoke to her recently and I told her I had to go which he firstly said "Okay, I love you. I will talk to you later." This is abnormal as I tell this to my actual sisters, and I come from a very open loving family. But is this appropriate for my sister-in-law? Why? Just why?!

God Complex or something

I think I have some more psychological issues going on, and I'm not sure what to do about it. I have these feelings about Natalie now, but I have noticed that I am just a huge flirt. I don't try to flirt with other women, but I love attention from women and talking to them. I just find the back and forth intriguing and the novelty of getting to know the other person something I love to do. I enjoy making new friends, and we're the type of people that invite friends from Church over for Sunday dinners, through Christmas parties, I mean I joke with my wife that my nickname in high school was OFG. One fun guy. I know that not every woman is interested in me, but I get so confused because I'm a friend and outgoing guy who isn't afraid of being both men and women compliments; e.g. my guy friend from church I always talk to I call him "Ken Doll" because he's ridiculously good-looking dude, and trust me I'm not gay, I just call it like it is. Anyways, I can recognize the Spirit where the lines are. When introducing myself to the attendant at the gym, and the conversation lingers too long and she seems friendly I end the conversation and move on. Etc. etc. I practice on the Spencer W. Kimball rules about not being along with other single or married women which I totally agree with. But why am I seeking interest from someone outside my spouse?

A good friend, and a good guy, but I'm holding a grenade in my family room

Because this is anonymous, we can be honest. I'm a good guy. Putting modesty aside and we're all adults we know what that generally means. I have a temple recommend, been married in the temple, make 6 figures, serve in multiple church callings, my wife stays home with our kids, I give anonymous amounts of money to friends and family, 100% home teaching, serving widows, I don't say all of this because I need internet approval, but to just make the point that I'm not a bad person or looking to hurt people. People want to be my friend, and I try to make many friends. But I have noticed something has been in leadership callings before. The more "successful" men become the more likely they are to cheat, steal, lie and blow up their family. Pride is the sin of Zion, someone wiser than me once said. We have about 6 active divorce LDS moms in our ward. All of them were cheated on by their husbands, who were, all 6 figure respectable professionals with an appearance about a 6. The same pattern reoccurs again and again. Good looking guy with money can't take the attention of other women and blows up their family. Welcome to divorce court where men have no rights. Goodbye life. I understand that I fit that profile. I'm a solid 7-8 being overweight if I lost 20 lbs. I'm a 9. I'm actually scared of losing weight because I remember being thinner and have more attention from women. I don't want to blow up my family, and I don't want to be unfaithful. I've learned that sad song of sorrow before and look to learn from error of my past.

The Scenario on Repeat with Natalie

We're alone. Only myself and Natalie sitting on a park bench.  I look at her and tell her, "Natalie, remember when you asked me a long time ago if you were wifey material? [her reply] then I respond, Well, the answer is that you absolutely are. You are an amazing, smart, funny, beautiful and talented person and perhaps even in another lifetime, since you asked,  I would be lucky to married to you." I have a near overwhelming desire to tell this to her, but I know if I do I'm pulling the pin on the grenade.Almost to see what her reaction would be. Would she reciprocate? Would she get awkward? I dunno, but not knowing is exactly why it's appealing.

 

The Ask

How can I have a relationship with my sister in law and not feel this way? If I am flirting, or sending signals of interest to women, how do I stop or recognize I'm doing it? How can I be obsessed with my wife, to the point I don't seek interest elsewhere? What if I tell my sister in law my "scenario"? 

Please and thank you.

-Ragnar

Edited by Subir Valhalla
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Honorable. Filled with integrity. Stalwart. Faithful. Dependable. True. Righteous. Disciplined. Obedient. Trustworthy. Long suffering. These are some of the things we should be.

Disloyal. Controlled by our passions. Controlled by our genitalia. Unfaithful. Lustful. Wicked. Creepy. These are some of the things we should not be.

Edited by The Folk Prophet
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I think about wanting to be with my sister-in-law. Yikes or gross?

Interesting that those 2 answers are the ones you came up with.  You're waaaaay too close to the cliff, my man.  Get back to deep safety while you still can.  The responses to that sentence should be - Wrong, Sinful, Immoral, Adulterous, and things of that nature.

Yikes and gross are for things like... eating a booger.

Edited by anatess2
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4 hours ago, Subir Valhalla said:

I'm a solid 7-8 being overweight if I lost 20 lbs. I'm a 9. I'm actually scared of losing weight because I remember being thinner and have more attention from women. I don't want to blow up my family, and I don't want to be unfaithful. I've learned that sad song of sorrow before and look to learn from error of my past.

I feel your pain.  As a fellow 9, I am accustomed to unwanted and unsolicited attention from the opposite sex. 

My advice is to put your attraction to the younger sister out of your mind.  It is normal to be attracted to women.  If she is an attractive girl, and you are attracted to her then congratulations  you are normal.  

IT CAN'T GO PAST THAT

If you find you are unable to control your thoughts/desires/actions then seek professional help, see your bishop.  DO NOT ruin your family and your life over this.  

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5 hours ago, Subir Valhalla said:

The Ask

How can I have a relationship with my sister in law and not feel this way? If I am flirting, or sending signals of interest to women, how do I stop or recognize I'm doing it? How can I be obsessed with my wife, to the point I don't seek interest elsewhere? What if I tell my sister in law my "scenario"? 

Please and thank you.

-Ragnar

Ok, here's straight-out answers from a wife married to a former runway model.  He's a 12 on your scale of 1-10.

In your entire post, you only talked about your sister-in-law.  Never said anything about your wife except that you have one.  You should be concentrating your thoughts on your wife.  LOVE YOUR WIFE WITH ALL YOUR BEING.  Everytime you wake up, think of your wife.  When you brush your teeth, think of your wife.  When you put on your shoes, think of your wife.  When you get to work, think of your wife.  Everytime you start thinking of another woman, refocus on your wife. 

Do you know why I've never worried about my husband and all these women chasing after him?  Because he's always talking about me.  Especially to these women.  He flashes them his wedding ring and if they don't get the hint, he talks about me.  My husband talks about me like I'm this goddess or something.  It's not some made up talk like he's just saying it for show.  That's really how he thinks about me.  And he likes to brag about me to everybody including these flirty women.  He talks about me to my kids in the same way.  My kids thinks I'm this amazing woman, even with all my major flaws, because they learned it from my husband.  My sons are now teenagers and sometimes say something sarcastic to me and WHAM!  My husband is on them with fire and brimstone.  Nobody disrespects Mother.  That's just the way it is.  Heck, if somebody insults me on just stupid Facebook even, he's out there defending me.  

Stop flirting.  That's it.   Stop thinking about women, keep thinking about your wife, and you'll stop flirting.   If you don't know you're flirting, then you're not flirting.  There's no "hidden signal" or whatever.  If the women think you're flirting even if you have no intentions of flirting, that's on them.  You thinking that you'll get tempted to cheat on your wife because the women are flirting means you're not thinking of your wife enough.  You should be able to stand in the middle of a brothel and not get tempted because YOU LOVE YOUR WIFE that much.  Take your wife with you everywhere as much as possible.

Why would you tell your sister-in-law?  I know the answer to this.  You're hoping you can put the burden on her to tempt you out of your marriage.  That's just despicable.  GO LOVE YOUR WIFE AND STOP THIS CRAZY TALK ABOUT YOUR SISTER-IN-LAW.  If you can't get yourself to do that, GO GET HELP FROM THE PROFESSIONALS AND GET SOME COUNSELING!  Or go move your family at least 2000 miles away from your sister-in-law.

 

Edited by anatess2
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5 hours ago, Subir Valhalla said:

I have a temple recommend, been married in the temple, make 6 figures, serve in multiple church callings, my wife stays home with our kids, I give anonymous amounts of money to friends and family, 100% home teaching, serving widows

If all that were true in your heart, you wouldn't need to ask this question, and you certainly wouldn't have the poll options you do - not one of which includes any mention to temple covenants.

Do what @anatess2 said in her most recent post - focus on your wife.  If every time another woman does something which seems to you to be flirting (or even possibly flirting) and your response is to talk about your wife, they'll get the clue fast enough.  And whatever you do, never complain about your wife to anyone except your wife.

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I can't imagine a worse thing you could do to your wife then follow through with that plan of yours. You mentioned, briefly, that your wife is a wonderful woman. Why would you even consider hurting her so much? Who cares that you think your sister in law is cute? It's wrong! Would you destroy your wife and your children just to follow some dumb fantasy you've had in your head? That's all it is, a fantasy. Even worse its a fantasy straight from the mouth of Hell. Can you even begin to imagine what would happen if you went through with this? How many family relationships it would severely damage or destroy? Turn to Christ brother. Recognize where this fantasy comes from and the next time you feel it running around your head tell Satan to get back to Hell. 

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Guest MormonGator
9 minutes ago, Midwest LDS said:

I can't imagine a worse thing you could do to your wife then follow through with that plan of yours. You mentioned, briefly, that your wife is a wonderful woman. Why would you even consider hurting her so much? Who cares that you think your sister in law is cute? It's wrong! Would you destroy your wife and your children just to follow some dumb fantasy you've had in your head? That's all it is, a fantasy. Even worse its a fantasy straight from the mouth of Hell. Can you even begin to imagine what would happen if you went through with this? How many family relationships it would severely damage or destroy? Turn to Christ brother. Recognize where this fantasy comes from and the next time you feel it running around your head tell Satan to get back to Hell. 

Yup. Not to be a jerk, but I think it's either a troll or one of the most warped and disturbing posts I've ever read. 

Edited by MormonGator
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11 hours ago, Subir Valhalla said:

Because this is anonymous, we can be honest. I'm a good guy. Putting modesty aside and we're all adults we know what that generally means. I have a temple recommend, been married in the temple, make 6 figures, serve in multiple church callings, my wife stays home with our kids, I give anonymous amounts of money to friends and family, 100% home teaching, serving widows, I don't say all of this because I need internet approval, but to just make the point that I'm not a bad person or looking to hurt people.

Dude a Whiskey Tango Foxtrot here . . .the above paragraph is not an accurate truth of your soul.  I'm going to break it to you man, the above is patently false. 

You are not a good guy. You have deluded yourself into thinking that you are a good guy simply because of all the things you do, i.e. you rely upon the outward appearance of this world to determine that you are a "good guy", but inside your soul you are dead and that is a sad state of affairs.

In life, most people who do bad things say at some point "I'm not a bad person"; but what they really mean is "I'm probably doing something wrong that I need to repent of, but in order to make is seem to others or to myself it's not so bad, I can say -I'm not a bad person".

The Natural Man is an enemy to God, has been and ever will be.  God cannot look upon sin with the least degree of allowance.  At the last day, our actions and our thoughts will condemn us.  We have all fallen short of the glory of God and God would have every right to hide His face from us forever . . . yet He is merciful and b/c He is merciful He provided a Savior.   This Savior atoned for our sins, my sins and your sins.  He allows us to repent of our wicked, sinful nature and to become more like God.  Through Christ, we can be made completely different people.  Whereas before we were spiritually dead, we can be alive in Christ.

Two of the most evil, pernicious, destructive ideologies being thrust into public thought in today's culture is to "Just be who you are, i.e. be "true" to yourself"" and the second is like unto it, "I can't control who I'm attracted do" .  Those ideas are evil and of the Devil. It is anti-Christ and completely denies His power!

I will give you a hint in life . . .we all have weird, bizarre, random even evil thoughts and feelings that come into our minds and hearts from time to time. A mark of maturity, responsibility and of someone who is converted to Christ is that they don't give shape or form to those things not of God.  We cast those thoughts out of our minds-we do no think about them!!!  And we find that over time the more we train our minds and hearts to ponder and think upon the things of God rather than the things of Satan, the easier it is to not have evil thoughts/feelings enter into us . . .we literally change our beings to be more Christlike.

Frankly, you don't need a psychologist, counselor, etc. 

What you need is to become converted to Christ!  You aren't converted to Christ . . .b/c if you were you wouldn't be posting this message.

Alma 5 brother, Alma 5.  All the external things don't matter if inside you are dead.

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2 hours ago, MormonGator said:

Yup. Not to be a jerk, but I think it's either a troll or one of the most warped and disturbing posts I've ever read. 

It's possible it's a troll . . .but it doesn't surprise me if true.  The next generation is a pretty narcissistic bunch.  This is what people think after they have been told their entire life growing up they are "special".  They get an inflated ego, they don't have self-confidence, they have self-aggrandizement and a god-like complex. 

As a society we are reaping what we have sown.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2017/11/10/professor-draws-ire-for-saying-students-will-have-to-work-hard-and-avoid-drinking.html

Welcome to crazy-town!! How much worse will it get before God brings the hammer down?

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'Falling in love' with somebody is something we have far more control over than we want to admit to ourselves since it is a bit unromantic.  You meet somebody (your SIL in this case) and there is a spark.  It is your choice to either add fuel to that spark and nurture it to a fire or ignore it and let it die a quick and merciful death.  Sounds like you have already added more fuel to the wrong fire than you should have, so the path ahead may not be so easy. 

Focus your mind on your wife, what you should be doing to serve her and love her and maker her happy.  Feed THAT fire and no other.  Deny yourself any romanic thoughts and fantasies of your SIL, limit or eliminate contact with her, look for flaws in her, notice the ways you wife makes a better companion for you.  You say you do many good things in your life, but NONE of that means squat if you keep feeding the wrong fire like you are doing right now.  Don't you dare look in the mirror and think how good you are, think how blessed you are to have the wife you have, how you do not deserve her and how you need to become a better man for her.

And you absolutely do not say anything to your SIL about this, that is not going to help at all.

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I think I have a natural advantage to avoiding fidelity problems, as generally women have always found me repulsive . . . Not to brag (I guess) :D

On a more serious note, I agree with what has been said above, that you have full control over your thoughts, and if you are unwilling to temper your feelings you should probably avoid contact with your sister in law (it can be done - I often manage to avoid my mother in law FOR VERY DIFFERENT REASONS).

Don't go down the path of infidelity - nothing good will come of it and you will just end up another broken excommunicated divorcee with no wife, no children, likely no sister in law (infidelity does not often lead to lasting relationships - ask Eric Clapton), and no eternal life.

Just . . . Don't.

Edited by DoctorLemon
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8 hours ago, DoctorLemon said:

On a more serious note, I agree with what has been said above, that you have full control over your thoughts,

Well I don't know about "full" control. But one can certainly learn to push thoughts that pop in that shouldn't be there back out.

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Guest MormonGator
17 hours ago, DoctorLemon said:

I think I have a natural advantage to avoiding fidelity problems, as generally women have always found me repulsive . . .

Yeah it's tough when women throw themselves at you. I'll take one for the team, it's okay. You can thank me later. 

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1 hour ago, MormonGator said:

Yeah it's tough when women throw themselves at you. I'll take one for the team, it's okay. You can thank me later. 

I am sort of subtly poking fun at the excesses of this thread, but there is some truth to the matter that women actually have never thrown themselves at me (primarily before I got married - I stopped caring or noticing after I got married).  Makes me appreciate my wife (who was my first girlfriend) all the more!

That said, I totally agree with your sentiment that the thread really is kind of gross and disturbing.  

I would propose that if you are married and getting unwanted attention from women, perhaps you are already doing something wrong (being too friendly, not getting word out that you are Mormon and/or happily married, etc)?

Edited by DoctorLemon
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@Subir Valhalla

i certainly respect your honesty and acknowledge your conflicted feelings about all this - and i am sure i don't understand the whole situation.  You sound like a good person who is doing their best.  i won't claim to understand the complexity of your emotions, and ultimately, the choice has to be yours.  But surely, given all you have done in your life, you must have seen how, usually, we idealize the things we don't have.  Happiness that you possess seems to be worth more than bliss you imagine you could possess - especially when that imagined bliss risks so much.

You sound like an intelligent person.  i'd recommend Tolstoy's Anna Karenina.  i'd recommend reading it before making a decision.  One of the things i like about it, is that it is honest in how it portrays people and their intents.  It doesn't portray all the characters as either saints or demons.  And it's so long that reading it before acting will ensure you don't act rashly.

Please take care - and thank-you for sharing your problems.  Lots of people may never have done that, just acting one way or the other - and that is impressive for sure.

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Hello all,

I'm surprised, but not from many responses. My the pitch forks come out on thought experiments don't they:

  1. Thank you for establishing that sharing your thoughts about a topic can qualify you (meaning me) as a (1) troll (2) narcissistic (3) most disturbing post ever (4) gross
  2. My SIL is a beautiful and good person, I never said or alluded to inappropriate or sexual thoughts, although some more nuanced readers might have picked up on that
  3. I like the Meme, short message perhaps best response right behind lostinwater's response
  4. The original questions (OQ) I feel some where addressed by many weren't. I will re-state again for clarity.

Update After the Visit from Natalie

My in-laws came over this past weekend. I spoke and listened to conversation with Natalie, my SIL. Nothing happened. I mean it was great to see her after a long time, but she's changed and I figured out that the person I construct in my mind isn't the same as the person in front of me. 

Let's Try Again, the OQ

Can replies be related to my original questions? Stated below in numbered bullets for simplicity. 

  1. How can I have a life long relationship with my SIL and not be attracted to her virtues and kindness?
  2. How do I know if I'm flirting? I mean I'm just an outgoing dude, but sometimes I feel the females send signals or maybe their not signals and I'm too sensitive to that stuff.
  3. How do I have complete and fulfilling relationship with my wife? We're pretty opposite people, and I think it would be for another post but I think I married her off a rebound, but as she puts it that was "over 9 years ago so it doesn't matter now."
  4. What if I tell my sister in law that I think she's beautiful and awesome? Then what?

Alright then. Let's see what comes of these responses.

Edited by Subir Valhalla
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Thank you for sharing and being open about it. Im assuming you just needed a place to let it off your chest because you already know what is the right thing to do.

This is a trial for you and an opportunity to come closer to your wife. Hold No secrets...Let her know! It might hit her like a ton of bricks but its an opportunity for her to show compassion for you in your trial as long as you are showing Christ like humility in wanting to over come it.

I have a friend and every time im around him and his family I sense humility in his countenance, I feel the spirit when Im around him. I notice that his wife almost babies him as if he has some sort of disability which he obviously does not have being a former athlete and successful business man. I have really come to admire their relationship. He told me yesterday that he attends the LDS ARP classes (addiction recovery), my observations were correct and confirmed to me by the spirit. He has a trial, wife is supporting him, their bond grows stronger.

Be humble my friend, your post sounds like you are fantasizing which is dangerous.

Edited by priesthoodpower
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On 11/10/2017 at 11:30 PM, JoCa said:

Dude a Whiskey Tango Foxtrot here . . .the above paragraph is not an accurate truth of your soul.  I'm going to break it to you man, the above is patently false. 

You are not a good guy. You have deluded yourself into thinking that you are a good guy simply because of all the things you do, i.e. you rely upon the outward appearance of this world to determine that you are a "good guy", but inside your soul you are dead and that is a sad state of affairs.

In life, most people who do bad things say at some point "I'm not a bad person"; but what they really mean is "I'm probably doing something wrong that I need to repent of, but in order to make is seem to others or to myself it's not so bad, I can say -I'm not a bad person".

The Natural Man is an enemy to God, has been and ever will be.  God cannot look upon sin with the least degree of allowance.  At the last day, our actions and our thoughts will condemn us.  We have all fallen short of the glory of God and God would have every right to hide His face from us forever . . . yet He is merciful and b/c He is merciful He provided a Savior.   This Savior atoned for our sins, my sins and your sins.  He allows us to repent of our wicked, sinful nature and to become more like God.  Through Christ, we can be made completely different people.  Whereas before we were spiritually dead, we can be alive in Christ.

Two of the most evil, pernicious, destructive ideologies being thrust into public thought in today's culture is to "Just be who you are, i.e. be "true" to yourself"" and the second is like unto it, "I can't control who I'm attracted do" .  Those ideas are evil and of the Devil. It is anti-Christ and completely denies His power!

I will give you a hint in life . . .we all have weird, bizarre, random even evil thoughts and feelings that come into our minds and hearts from time to time. A mark of maturity, responsibility and of someone who is converted to Christ is that they don't give shape or form to those things not of God.  We cast those thoughts out of our minds-we do no think about them!!!  And we find that over time the more we train our minds and hearts to ponder and think upon the things of God rather than the things of Satan, the easier it is to not have evil thoughts/feelings enter into us . . .we literally change our beings to be more Christlike.

Frankly, you don't need a psychologist, counselor, etc. 

What you need is to become converted to Christ!  You aren't converted to Christ . . .b/c if you were you wouldn't be posting this message.

Alma 5 brother, Alma 5.  All the external things don't matter if inside you are dead.

JoCa,

I often disagree with you.  But you hit it right on the head here.

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On 11/10/2017 at 8:48 PM, MormonGator said:

Yup. Not to be a jerk, but I think it's either a troll or one of the most warped and disturbing posts I've ever read. 

Truth!

What on earth was he expecting here?  Permission?  If it's wrong, it's wrong.  Sheesh!

No, wait, I have an idea.  Yeah, as long as you're just, you know, REALLY tempted and she's SUPER hot, then go ahead and dishonor your wedding vows and commit adultery and destroy your life, your wife's confidence and love, your children's lives and all you know can go burn down in a giant mushroom cloud. 

Cuz, you know, forgiveness and all that.  NOT!!!

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9 hours ago, priesthoodpower said:

Hold No secrets...Let her know! It might hit her like a ton of bricks but its an opportunity for her to show compassion for you in your trial as long as you are showing Christ like humility in wanting to over come it.

I disagree with this idea that one should "hold no secrets" in marriage; when what one means is you should share every thought and feelings you have with your spouse.

No you shouldn't share every thought and feeling you have with your spouse.  You do that and it's a great way to develop a very unhealthy co-dependent relationship. Sometimes thoughts and feelings should be kept to oneself and not given a voice.  Sometimes it helps to give it a voice to overcome it . . .but a lot of judgement and wisdom needs to be exercised in this area.  If sharing allows one to draw closer to your spouse and overcome sin, great.  But oversharing, even in a marriage, can be problematic.

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