The 7th Seal

[askandanswer]

On 11/19/2017 at 1:21 PM, JohnsonJones said:

Not sure, but aren't those sea lions?

Thought the difference between seals and sea lions was that sea lions have ear flaps you can see while seals do not.

Inasmuch as the creature in the top photo of the second set of pics is made up of a large amount of atoms with a net electric charge, then yes, I guess it is a sea l ion. In the lower photo of the second sets of pics, as long as the creature maintains that position, then yes, I guess it is a sealying down on the rocks but once it gets up and goes for a swim that will no longer be the case.  

[Guest]

13 hours ago, Alex said:

The point I was making is that you'd figure out the calendar from Christ's birth, which is at the 4,000 year mark. You'd figure out which calendar was in use, and NOT need to go back to the various calendars before Christ.

Let me go over the timeline and see if you can help me with my confusion over your response.

1) You made many statements.  I perused them.  Some I found interesting.  Others not.
2) One thing that stood out to me was a glaring error -- you said the Roman Calendar only had 350 days per year and thus had changing seasons as the years progressed.
3) I said that was wrong.
4) You said

15 hours ago, Alex said:

No, you're forgetting the 4,000 and then 2,000 year prophecies (Christ is born at the 4,000 year mark and then there's 2,000 years until the beginning of the 7,000th year - with those you need only work out when the Roman calendar was dropped after Christ.

As if that made the Roman Calendar have 350 days.

So, what am I missing?

[Alex]

21 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

Let me go over the timeline and see if you can help me with my confusion over your response.

1) You made many statements.  I perused them.  Some I found interesting.  Others not.
2) One thing that stood out to me was a glaring error -- you said the Roman Calendar only had 350 days per year and thus had changing seasons as the years progressed.
3) I said that was wrong.
4) You said

As if that made the Roman Calendar have 350 days.

So, what am I missing?

You are deliberately missing that you and your chum dismissed what I said by claiming the era before Christ had a calendar that was not fixed according to google and once again, I am saying that you only need to calculate from the birth of Christ as that is the beginning of the 4,000 years. 

If you want to dismiss the theory by continuing to cling to any of the pre Christ calendars then that is entirely your choice. It doesn't worry me- you can believe the earth is flat if you want as well.

[Guest]

17 minutes ago, Alex said:

You are deliberately missing that you and your chum dismissed what I said by claiming the era before Christ had a calendar that was not fixed according to google and once again, I am saying that you only need to calculate from the birth of Christ as that is the beginning of the 4,000 years. 

If you want to dismiss the theory by continuing to cling to any of the pre Christ calendars then that is entirely your choice. It doesn't worry me- you can believe the earth is flat if you want as well.

OK, so you're saying that your post about the two prophecies was specifically about BC calendars and how they relate (or not) to this topic.  Your prophecy thing had nothing to do with the Roman 350 day thing.  Fine.  So, that had nothing to do with it.

You were the one who brought up the Roman Calendar in the first place.  I'm just asking you how you got that the Roman Calendar was 350 days.  You still haven't addressed that.  But I'm guessing your response is,"Oh. Drat.  I guess I was wrong. But I just can't publicly admit that."  Then I understand that as a perfectly human reaction and I'll be about my way.

But then... you took it a step further and decided to insult me because I found an error in your posts.  "I refuse to admit I did or said anything wrong.  You're just an idiot and don't know what you're talking about."  You seem to have a habit of doing that.  Very disturbing.

[Alex]

2 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

OK, so you're saying that your post about the two prophecies was specifically about BC calendars and how they relate (or not) to this topic.  Your prophecy thing had nothing to do with the Roman 350 day thing.  Fine.  So, that had nothing to do with it.

You were the one who brought up the Roman Calendar in the first place.  I'm just asking you how you got that the Roman Calendar was 350 days.  You still haven't addressed that.  But I'm guessing your response is,"Oh. Drat.  I guess I was wrong. But I just can't publicly admit that."  Then I understand that as a perfectly human reaction and I'll be about my way.

But then... you took it a step further and decided to insult me because I found an error in your posts.  "I refuse to admit I did or said anything wrong.  You're just an idiot and don't know what you're talking about."  You seem to have a habit of doing that.  Very disturbing.

Look, one of the Roman calendars was 354 days and the old Hebrew Pentecontad was 350 days and that Pentecontad was used by Palestinian Christian peasants, after Christ. When did they originally adopt a calendar like the Pentecontad? I don't know.

I wouldn't call you an idiot. 'Prideful' better fits.

You keep on harping on this because you feel silly for claiming the theory was wrong because it was built on the premise that the pre-Christ calendars were capricious. Just admit it- theories scare you as prefer Mormon mummy blogs.

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, Alex said:

I wouldn't call you an idiot. 'Prideful' better fits.

Prideful because I asked a question?  I don't think we live on the same planet.

[Alex]

Just now, Carborendum said:

Prideful because I asked a question?  I don't think we live on the same planet.

No, that's not what this is about and you know it. You feel you are a gatekeeper of sorts and you take pride in keeping it dumb and on the down low.

You're probably the person in Sunday School who loves to say out loud 'repetition of basic principles is all that is needed- faith, repent...' whenever a conversation becomes interesting as it means you don't have to engage your mind.

You should try engaging for a change instead of trying to shut things down.

[Just_A_Guy]

[Mod hat on a moment]

Let’s be careful about imputing motives to each other, or making grand statements about what our debate partners whom we’ve known for less than a week do or don’t “know”. 

[Mod hat off]

@Alex, I may be in a position to get up to the Church History Library in the next week or so and check out their Church News collection to track down the anecdote you cite.  I presume I’m looking for coverage of Hinckley’s July 1987 trip to Britain for the sesquicentennial celebrations?  And, you’re *sure* this would be the Church News and not some other publication?

Edited November 21, 2017 by Just_A_Guy

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Just_A_Guy said:

[Mod hat on a moment]

Let’s be careful about imputing motives to each other, or making grand statements about what our debate partners whom we’ve known for less than a week do or don’t “know”. 

[Mod hat off]

@Alex, I may be in a position to get up to the Church History Library in the next week or so and check out their Church News collection to track down the anecdote you cite.  I presume I’m looking for coverage of Hinckley’s July 1987 trip to Britain for the sesquicentennial celebrations?  And, you’re *sure* this would be the Church News and not some other publication?

Even if you find it and it does exist, we should realize Hinckley could have just been giving his personal opinion (very common with these types of things) or even making a semi-joke in lieu of saying "no comment" to the question.

[Alex]

4 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

[Mod hat on a moment]

Let’s be careful about imputing motives to each other, or making grand statements about what our debate partners whom we’ve known for less than a week do or don’t “know”. 

[Mod hat off]

@Alex, I may be in a position to get up to the Church History Library in the next week or so and check out their Church News collection to track down the anecdote you cite.  I presume I’m looking for coverage of Hinckley’s July 1987 trip to Britain for the sesquicentennial celebrations?  And, you’re *sure* this would be the Church News and not some other publication?

Yep.

It wasn't a lengthy comment but it was a comment from a prophet nonetheless. Often that's the way the prophets speak to us.

[Alex]

20 minutes ago, DoctorLemon said:

Even if you find it and it does exist, we should realize Hinckley could have just been giving his personal opinion (very common with these types of things) or even making a semi-joke in lieu of saying "no comment" to the question.

When President Hinckley was the President of the church he went to the legal department and held up a widow's mite for the church lawyers to see. He told them that they were looking after monies that were donated and they had a responsibility to make sure the funds that were given in sacrifice, are not squandered. *I don't see as how renewing an expensive lease beyond the time it is needed is going to help the salvation of anybody- I reckon that extending the lease past the 2038 date it is due to end, would be squandering money.*

 

 

 

Edited November 21, 2017 by Alex
grammar

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Alex said:

When President Hinckley was the President of the church he went to the legal department and held up a widow's mite for the church lawyers to see. He told them that they were looking after monies that were donated and they had a responsibility to make sure the funds that were given in sacrifice, are not squandered. *I don't see as how renewing an expensive lease beyond the time it is needed is going to help the salvation of anybody- I reckon that extending the lease past the 2038 date it is due to end, would be squandering money.*

 

 

 

Not sure I buy that this is any sort of proof that the second coming is going to happen before 2038, but read into it as you would like.

[Alex]

7 minutes ago, DoctorLemon said:

Not sure I buy that this is any sort of proof that the second coming is going to happen before 2038, but read into it as you would like.

Yeah okay, but the question remains- why not extend the expensive lease past 2038?

[Guest]

Just now, Alex said:

Yeah okay, but the question remains- why not extend the expensive lease past 2038?

because it is too expensive

[Just_A_Guy]

1 hour ago, DoctorLemon said:

because it is too expensive

In the 1950s when the ground was first obtained, the Cold War was in full swing.  Second Coming or not, it wasn’t at all clear that there would be a London in 2036.  

But, we’ll see when the quote turns up.   

[Traveler]

On ‎11‎/‎17‎/‎2017 at 8:34 PM, MormonGator said:

I'm no expert but Matthew 24:36 comes to mind.  

 

In ancient Israel, there were many festivals critical to worship.  The made-up term in English (Passover) which falls at the same time as the made-up term of “Easter” was directly tied to the calendar used in Israel.  Ancient calendars were lunar, solar or a combination of both.   Part of the ancient concept of religious worship included the calendar that designated sacred times for sacred events.  This concept is still imbedded in religious worship with the placement of Sabbath worship (once in 7 days) that defines even our modern week.  The calendar was considered sacred and prophetic.  We see this reflected in many prophesies concerning the birth of Christ – his death and other very important things. 

We should know and understand the importance of Passover as prophetic of something to come.  Likewise, we should understand that the coming of Christ both with his birth and second coming are planned, designed, well thought out and set by the laws of G-d to occur.  The symbolism around the second coming is not as ambiguous as many make it out to be.  Is there any doubt that verse 29 of Mathew 24 refers to a solar eclipse followed by a lunar eclipse?  I would also point out that it was believed anciently that the moon turned to blood following a third succession of a lunar eclipse.

Anciently the signs of heaven were considered critical to worship.  Verse 30 talks about the sign of the son of man.  I am of the notion that few have any idea what the sign of the son of man is – so if someone does not know the sign of the son of man -  how can they look for it or recognize it when it occurs?

But there is another important notion.  The ancient calendar had to begin at a prophetic day.  It was believed that the new year would begin on the first day of the week (Sunday) following the first new moon that followed the vernal equinox.  According to ancient traditions two expert witnesses must appear before a “judge” in Israel and testify that the signs for the new year have been given from heaven before the new year could begin.  Because the signs must be given from heaven there was a common saying that no man knows when the new year will begin.   But from time to time – storm clouds would gather blocking the view of the heavens and obscuring the vernal equinox and the new moon.  Under such conditions it was common to say, “No man knows the hour or the day – not even the angles of heaven”.

I find this symbolism of storm clouds obscuring signs when something sacred is to happen very intriguing.  Anciently anyone that was well aware of the sequences of the sun and the moon would be very aware when the time came close and would not need the declaration of the witnesses or the judge – they could figure this all out on their own – even on stormy cloudy days

But there is another interesting modern twist to verse 36.  There are time zones that reflect all 24 hours of a day.  Thus, we have divided up the entire world such that there is no specific hour that is unique to the planet – only just a very small area of the globe.  The hour in New York is never the same at any given moment as the hour in London, Salt Lake City, Hong Kong or Jerusalem.  In addition, we have created what we call an international date line such that the day on one side is always a different day from the day on the other side of the line.  This means that regardless of what day is designated for the second coming – it will be a different day somewhere on this earth – so if an hour and day was given it could not be universal but specific only to 1/24th of the planet. 

I believe there are people alive today that know the day and week when the second coming will be.  However, I am not one of them – yet.  I am confident that I will have a very good idea as the time approaches.  And I have determined that I am not going to dispute this matter – not with infidels and certainly with my fellow Saints.  For those that feel a sense of urgency – I am with you.  Those that do not care or are unconcerned – Wow!  I have nothing for you.

 

The Traveler

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Alex said:

You feel you are a gatekeeper of sorts and you take pride in keeping it dumb and on the down low.

You're probably the person in Sunday School who loves to say out loud 'repetition of basic principles is all that is needed- faith, repent...' whenever a conversation becomes interesting as it means you don't have to engage your mind.

You should try engaging for a change instead of trying to shut things down.

I guess you simply missed my initial attempt at engaging, because you never even responded.

On 11/14/2017 at 7:07 AM, Carborendum said:

Alex,

Whatever signs there are, I'd ask the following question:  What are you going to do about it?

I follow the counsel of the prophets to be prepared.  I'm temporally prepared, I strive to be spiritually prepared.  But I also prepare to keep living life.  What else would you expect people to do?  Have we been listening to the news?  Of course we have.  Do we recognize that this could be a big sign?  Or course we do.  But what are we supposed to change because of it?

Live.  Live a life that shows that you are a follower of Christ.  Prepare every needful thing, and live.

All the signs that we see are signs that have been around for a long time.  They've happened so many times.  How do we know if "this is it"?  We don't. So, we simply remain vigilant.  We recognize that this could be it.  But in case it isn't, we keep living life.

In the end, it doesn't matter if we're going to get hit by a bus tomorrow or if Christ comes again next week.  We need to be prepared no matter what.  Are you prepared?

AND

On 11/16/2017 at 7:29 AM, Carborendum said:

Here's a challenge for you:  Line by line comparison.

What the Book of Revelation describes as the characteristics of the Anti-Christ:
What the Saudi Prince is doing.

That is something I'd listen to.

No response to either.  If you expect others to engage you, then you need to do the same.

Did you notice how easily you jumped to conclusions when I didn't address several statements you made?  Of course.  That's human nature.  I did the same to you as well.  Human nature.  I don't condemn you for doing so.  Is it fair for you to condemn me (and make multiple accusations and judgments) for having the same human foibles as you, yourself have demonstrated?

I have made no judgments about you.  I've commented on your words and the message you've presented.  I have no idea what you are like.  You're too new here for me to make that kind of judgment.  But you've not only judged what I have written, but have made judgments about how I must behave outside this forum.  If someone were to look at those facts, who do you think would be more in danger of being called "prideful"?

[Vort]

3 hours ago, Alex said:

No, that's not what this is about and you know it. You feel you are a gatekeeper of sorts and you take pride in keeping it dumb and on the down low.

You're probably the person in Sunday School who loves to say out loud 'repetition of basic principles is all that is needed- faith, repent...' whenever a conversation becomes interesting as it means you don't have to engage your mind.

You should try engaging for a change instead of trying to shut things down.

Mods, this is pure trolling. I would normally either ignore this or report it privately, but Alex is really going out of his way to be offensive. Now he's imputing his own faults and shortcomings to others. This really needs to stop.

[Guest]

I troll Carb all the time.  Especially about his involvement with the LDS Freedom Forum.  FREAK.

He likes it!  

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, DoctorLemon said:

I troll Carb all the time.  Especially about his involvement with the LDS Freedom Forum.  FREAK.

He likes it!  

Well, ok.  That's true.

[Alex]

1 hour ago, Vort said:

Mods, this is pure trolling. I would normally either ignore this or report it privately, but Alex is really going out of his way to be offensive. Now he's imputing his own faults and shortcomings to others. This really needs to stop.

Grow up.

[Vort]

32 minutes ago, Alex said:

Grow up.

Why? I'm doing fine growing out. Pretty sure it's not possible for me to grow up any more. I seem to be headed the other direction.

[Alex]

2 hours ago, Carborendum said:

I guess you simply missed my initial attempt at engaging, because you never even responded.

AND

No response to either.  If you expect others to engage you, then you need to do the same.

Did you notice how easily you jumped to conclusions when I didn't address several statements you made?  Of course.  That's human nature.  I did the same to you as well.  Human nature.  I don't condemn you for doing so.  Is it fair for you to condemn me (and make multiple accusations and judgments) for having the same human foibles as you, yourself have demonstrated?

I have made no judgments about you.  I've commented on your words and the message you've presented.  I have no idea what you are like.  You're too new here for me to make that kind of judgment.  But you've not only judged what I have written, but have made judgments about how I must behave outside this forum.  If someone were to look at those facts, who do you think would be more in danger of being called "prideful"?

"No response to either" huh.

This is what you said.

"I follow the counsel of the prophets to be prepared.  I'm temporally prepared, I strive to be spiritually prepared.  But I also prepare to keep living life.  What else would you expect people to do?  Have we been listening to the news?  Of course we have.  Do we recognize that this could be a big sign?  Or course we do.  But what are we supposed to change because of it?

Live.  Live a life that shows that you are a follower of Christ.  Prepare every needful thing, and live.

All the signs that we see are signs that have been around for a long time.  They've happened so many times.  How do we know if "this is it"?  We don't. So, we simply remain vigilant.  We recognize that this could be it.  But in case it isn't, we keep living life.

In the end, it doesn't matter if we're going to get hit by a bus tomorrow or if Christ comes again next week.  We need to be prepared no matter what.  Are you prepared?"

 

You ask 'what are we supposed to change because of knowing more', to which I replied elsewhere to you and your chum's echo with:

 

"If Americans had have known that the A/C Khomeini was about to seize control in Iran in 79 and either kill or hold them hostage, they wouldn't have gone to work in Iran ! And yes, he was an Anti-Christ because he outlawed Christianity in Iran."

 

As for your challenge, it's something for you to do, not I.

 

[Guest]

56 minutes ago, Alex said:

As for your challenge, it's something for you to do, not I.

[Black Bart]

On 11/17/2017 at 7:12 PM, my two cents said:

I"ll keep this person anonymous but there are people who've studied this quite a bit and say that Pres. Hinckley indicated the seal opened at the dedication of the Palmyra Temple: 

April 6, 2000 was the prophesied temple dedication from Revelations 7 & Joel 1 where all members would attend. Not possible in our day if not for technology which allowed ALL worthy members to watch as Palmyra was the first (of only two temple dedications) that were televised world wide. And immediately after, in Rev 8:1 the 7th seal was opened, and the space of 'half an hour' (or 20.83 years in the Lords time) began.

As far as where I stand, I think it's better to think things are closer than to think we still have a long way to go.

I was in attendance through video link to the dedication where I heard President Hinckley say directly that the seventh seal was opened. I turned to my wife and ask her if that was indead what he just said? She confirmed that was what he said.

I donot know why so few people recall this? Thousands were in attendence. It was not a part of the prayer, but his words preceding the dedication.

Edited April 30, 2020 by Black Bart
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