Would You? Abraham/Isaac, Nephi/Laban, Saul/Amelikites


lostinwater
 Share

Recommended Posts

Guest MormonGator
1 minute ago, zil said:

My favorite is only $1500.  

I'm going to have to start charging much more for my soap young lady! 
(LG wants to know if you need more. If you do, just private message me)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, MormonGator said:

Maybe you and @Anddenex can share a jail cell together. 
(I'm playing guys) 

Gator, where is your faith? :). God released all of these prophets and missionaries from prison except Abinada 

Mosiah 17:5  And it came to pass that the king caused that his guards should surround Abinadi and take him; and they bound him and cast him into prison.

Genesis 39:20  And Joseph's master took him, and put him into the prison, a place where the king's prisoners were bound: and he was there in the prison.

Jeremiah 37:21  Then Zedekiah the king commanded that they should commit Jeremiah into the court of the prison, and that they should give him daily a piece of bread out of the bakers' street, until all the bread in the city were spent.  Thus Jeremiah remained in the court of the prison

Alma 21:13  Nevertheless, Aaron and a certain number of his brethren were taken and cast into prison, and the remainder of them fled out of the land of Middoni unto the regions round about.

3rd Nephi 28:19  And they were cast into prison by them who did not belong to the church.  And the prisons could not hold them, for they were rent in twain.

4th Nephi 1:30  Therefore they did exercise power and authority over the disciples of Jesus who did tarry with them, and they did cast them into prison; but by the power of the word of God, which was in them, the prisons were rent in twain, and they went forth doing mighty miracles among them.

Alma 14:17  And it came to pass that Alma and Amulek answered him nothing; and he smote them again, and delivered them to the officers to be cast into prison.

28 And Alma and Amulek came forth out of the prison, and they were not hurt; for the Lord had granted unto them power, according to their faith which was in Christ.  And they straightway came forth out of the prison; and they were loosed from their bands; and the prison had fallen to the earth, and every soul within the walls thereof, save it were Alma and Amulek, was slain; and they straightway came forth into the city.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 11/29/2017 at 3:46 PM, Anddenex said:

The Egyptian's firstborn (I am sure you are aware of this story in the Bible), as well as the first born of the House of Israel who did not head the counsel from Moses.

The Lamanite that tried to kill Ammon when he fell due to the Spirit. No man lifted his sword to kill this man, then if he died, who stopped his heart and ability to breath?

Rob already mentioned the flood that God caused that according to record killed all humans except Noah and his sons.

Ark of the Covenant episode, "David and the people later brought the ark to Jerusalem in an ox cart, driven by Uzzah and Ahio. ‘And when they came to Nachon’s threshingfloor, Uzzah put forth his hand to the ark of God, and took hold of it; for the oxen shook it. And the anger of the Lord was kindled against Uzzah; and God smote him there for his error, and there he died by the ark of God’ (2 Samuel 6:6–7; see vv. 1–11)." (Source) -- Pretty clear words here, "And the anger of the Lord was kindled against Uzzah; and God smote him there for his error."

If Ballam continued his false path of disobedience to God, an angel would have smote him as the angel would have been commanded by God. And if experience and story is correct regarding Joseph and polygamy, it appears the Lord would have brought him to an early demise if he disobeyed a direct command from God.

I am wondering if you have picked up your Bible lately - ;)

If you don't buy these options, I am very curious regarding how this would be seen otherwise then God actually bringing one of his children back to him sooner.

EDIT: One more example:

Judah has three sons by a Canaanite woman—Er and Onan are slain by the Lord—Tamar, disguised as a harlot, bears twins by Judah. The actual verse of scripture says, "And Er, Judah’s firstborn, was wicked in the sight of the Lord; and the Lord slew him." And now with Onan, "

And Onan knew that the seed should not be his; and it came to pass, when he went in unto his brother’s wife, that he spilled it on the ground, lest that he should give seed to his brother.

10 And the thing which he did displeased the Lord: wherefore he slew him also."

I am surprised that you take the bible stories so literally.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

48 minutes ago, omegaseamaster75 said:

I am surprised that you take the bible stories so literally.

So what you are saying is that you haven't picked up your Bible lately, OK. That explains a lot. Yes, I take it literally that Christ was born of Mary, and that she was a virgin, as this is one of the stories in the Bible, you don't? Huh, go figure.

Have you ever heard a prophet describe these events shared as being not "literal"? Hmmm...believe omegaseamaster75 that the Bible stories are not literal, or living prophets and their explanations and witness to literal events of the Bible? That is an easy weigh -- living prophets.

Edit: And yes, excellent side-step and stone wall that doesn't answer anything with regards to your question, and yes, literal events that did happen in the Bible. The flood happened, if it covered the whole earth is irrelevant, as again you side-step and stone wall Rob's response. The fact remains. God sent the flood, and the flood killed his sons and daughters. Fact remains, the firstborn of Egypt were killed. Side-stepping truth isn't going to help you.

Edited by Anddenex
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest MormonGator
20 hours ago, askandanswer said:

Gator, where is your faith? :). God released all of these prophets and missionaries from prison except Abinada 

 

Faith is tempered by common sense and being "obeying, honoring and sustaining the law." I'm not sure about Australia but I'm fairly certain that the good ole' USA has laws against killing people. Even if you think God says it's okay. Am I right @mirkwood?

Edited by MormonGator
Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

Faith is tempered by common sense and being "obeying, honoring and sustaining the law." I'm not sure about Australia but I'm fairly certain that the good ole' USA has laws against killing people. Am I right @mirkwood?

@mirkwood - I think you are going to have to arrest Nephi when you meet him. MG will be your deputy. Fortunately for you MG, Nephi would probably only shoot the sheriff, not his deputy (name that song and song writer) Boom!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest MormonGator
Just now, Anddenex said:

@mirkwood - I think you are going to have to arrest Nephi when you meet him. MG will be your deputy. Fortunately for you MG, Nephi would probably only shoot the sheriff, not his deputy (name that song and song writer) Boom!

List of songs that I hate:

1. Don't Stop Believing by Journey

2. Stairway to Heaven by Led Zeppelin 

3. I Shot the Sheriff, by ANYONE. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

Faith is tempered by common sense

+1

Every religion cherry picks.  And really, not just every religion.  Every single person cherry picks.  You'll find people condemning things they disagree with by quoting Leviticus as they eat bacon at a barbecue without any perception of the irony involved.

The history books are full of despotic regimes and genocides that more or less came about because someone was successful in convincing people that extreme allegiance to their cause of choice justified the numbing of one's conscience/society's most essential laws.

The reminds me a quote from the 1954 movie, 'A Man For All Seasons'. 

William Roper: “So now you'd give the Devil the benefit of law!"
Sir Thomas More: “Yes. What would you do? Cut a great road through the law to get to the Devil?"
Roper: “I'd cut down every law in England to do that!"
More: “Oh? And when the last law was down, and the Devil turned round on you -- where would you hide, Roper, the laws all being flat. This country’s planted thick with laws from coast to coast -- man’s laws, not God’s -- and if you cut them down -- and you're just the man to do it -- do you really think you could stand upright in the winds that would blow then? Yes, I'd give the Devil benefit of the law, for my own safety’s sake."

– Robert Bolt, A Man for All Seasons (1954)

Every person/organization has their own definition as to what the devil is.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest MormonGator
6 minutes ago, mirkwood said:

Oh the ammunition you just gave me...

Lol. Consider it a gift. Goodness knows I've torn you to shreds before because of your horrible music taste (kidding everyone. His musical taste is basically the same as mine and I consider him a friend). Those songs are wretched though. All of them. 

When you arrest someone for murder, if they tell you "God told me to kill them" you take the handcuffs off and let them go immediately, right? 

Edited by MormonGator
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest MormonGator
13 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

You just haven't seen it performed correctly.  

 

hahahahahahahahahaha. That was awesome.

(Still a horrible, overplayed song. But that was great) 

Edited by MormonGator
Link to comment
Share on other sites

It seems that there may be some participating in this discussion who are of the belief that its ok for a judge to order a death, and then order an executioner to carry out that execution, but that its not ok for God to order a death and instruct one of His children to carry out that order. That's a hard position for me to understand. I agree with what Peter said in Acts 5:29 - We ought to obey God rather than men.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That's an interesting take on things askandanswer.

I suppose the response is that the chances of someone being mistaken about whether the judge ordered the death or not, is pretty much zero, while the world is full of people off murdering in the names of their respective deities all the time.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 11/29/2017 at 6:37 PM, lostinwater said:

As i read that, i wonder if the ox was stung by a bee, bolted, tipped the ark over, and it crushed Uzzah - and the people were so superstitious that they believed it was God.  

And if that is how it happened, why do you assume that it wasn't Him?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest MormonGator
18 minutes ago, askandanswer said:

 We ought to obey God rather than men.

It's actually "both and". 

12 We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/pgp/a-of-f/1?lang=eng

If you kill person in cold blood and claim that God told you to do so, then yes, I believe that judge can sentence you to death. The other persons right to live trumps your right to believe that God is speaking to you. That simple. It's somewhat creepy that is a point of contention. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

That's an interesting take on things askandanswer.

I suppose the response is that the chances of someone being mistaken about whether the judge ordered the death or not, is pretty much zero, while the world is full of people off murdering in the names of their respective deities all the time.  

I guess a lot of it comes down to what @zil said earlier - so much seems to depend on how certain we are of where the instruction came from.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

If you kill person in cold blood and claim that God told you to do so, then yes, I believe that judge can sentence you to death. The other persons right to live trumps your right to believe that God is speaking to you. That simple. It's somewhat creepy that is a point of contention. 

If you kill person in cold blood because God told you to do so, then yes, I believe that judge can sentence you to death but the other persons right to live does not trump God’s right to take their life.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest MormonGator
Just now, askandanswer said:

 the other persons right to live does not trump God’s right to take their life.

And that's where we disagree, strongly. Telling an atheist to die because it's God's right to take their life is like an atheist telling you to die for the state. Both are gravely evil. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • pam unfeatured this topic

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share