Husband drinking


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So I have discovered that my husband of 21 yrs is drinking alcohol.  I have found it hidden multiple times.  I have confronted him and he says when he can’t sleep he will drink some to help.  Yes I suggested melatonin, and even a prescription sleep aid.  Plus he said it’s stress, and this is how he copes.<—this is the real reason he drinks I believe.

now, we are in a stressful situation.  Quick explanation, 18 yr old  son is causing havoc, even got himself arrested.  (And more to that story and kid.....)This stress of course has taken a tole on our marriage.  So yeah, we aren’t in a good place.  He won’t go to counseling, inside or outside the church.  Says it’s a waist of time when what we really need is to use that time to spend together.  We have 5 kids and we both are constantly running around getting them places and we both now work. (Lawyers are expensive and I had to go back to work)

my problem is the hypocracy.  How can he call himself a worthy member?  I just don’t get it.  I am a convert of 20 yrs now, he is a lifetime member that even went on a mission.  Am I being judgmental?  Do I tell the bishop?  I told him he has a problem, of course he denied it.  This has been going on off and on for about a year now.

i keep snooping when I feel like he is hiding ...and I keep finding bottles.  I think he thinks our son Finds some or most of them....cuz we know he snooped and I actually found one in my sons room.  He knows I have found 2 and threw them out.  But I currently have 3 hidding that I found, one just an hour ago.  I just don’t know what to do.  Any help would be much appreciated 

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My 2 cents, not worth more than that.

2 things, 1 cent each:

1.)  "How can he call himself a worthy member?"  The church is not the church for the perfect.  The church is a hospital for sinners.  Those without sin can cast the first stone.

2.)  " Do I tell the bishop?  I told him he has a problem, of course he denied it."  Flockling, you are his wife.  His helpmeet.  It is better for you to approach this problem as "you and your husband versus alcohol" instead of "your husband and alcohol versus you".  Do you see what I'm saying?  You need to be on the same side of the fence as he is.  This changes your approach from accusatory to becoming a safe haven where he can find help in fighting his demons.  Your husband needs you.  Desperately.  He might not acknowledge it, he might not be ready to accept it - but he is failing and you are in the best position to figure out how you can help him back to a better place.  So, whatever you do, make sure it accomplishes the one goal you need to accomplish - that it brings both you and your husband closer to Christ.  If telling the bishop accomplishes that, then tell the bishop.  If you going to counseling even if your husband doesn't accomplishes that, then go to counseling.  If spending quality time with your husband does that, do that too.  If drastically simplifying your life to get rid of any unnecessary stressful thing does that,  then do it.

Hope that helps a bit.

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31 minutes ago, Flockling7 said:

my problem is the hypocracy.

This feels like a problem to me, too. I think I would suggest that you separate the Church from you for a moment. You ask how can he call himself a worthy member (a valid question), when I would guess that the real source of confusion and frustration is how can he lie to you (his wife) about drinking.

Lying/hiding his drinking could be a symptom of  "problem" (addiction), but it could also be a symptom of avoiding his wife's disapproval. My first suggestion is to look inside yourself and see if you can find a way to be "safe" for him to be honest with you about it. This doesn't mean that you need to be enthusiastically supportive or encouraging of his drinking, but that he can have his occasional drink and you won't make a big issue about it. There is still room for solid boundaries that you deem important to your sense of safety and well-being ("I will not tolerate drunken rages or hours at a bar" for example). If he really is only having a small drink before bed some/most nights to help him sleep, then it seems more valuable to me that he can be honest about his drinking than that he be abstinent. Remember that many couples outside of the church have good marriages even though they tolerate and even encourage some drinking. I don't see a problem with telling him that you don't think it is right for him to carry a temple recommend, but I would probably suggest that you leave the rest of his church hypocrisy between him and the church.

I could see some room for counseling as individuals and couples. He probably is hesitant because he fears the counselors' disapproval as well. At the risk of offending the Mormonhub community, I might suggest a counselor outside of the church who will be respectful of your personal belief in the WoW, but will be able to also help you separate out the belief in and desire for abstinence from the practical necessities around, "my husband drinks and I may have to learn to live with it so how do I do that and how do I recognize dangerous and unacceptable and problem/addictive behaviors."

In a nutshell, I guess it seems more important to me that you figure out how to encourage him to be honest with you about his drinking than that he stop drinking all together at this point. See where that takes you.

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Thank you so much for your responses.

i don’t feel like I’m judging him reguarding the hypocrisy, just that I feel so incredibly guilty seeing him serve knowing what I know. (Is that judging?)  I have told him in the past that I was fine with his drinking, still am, just to be honest about it.  I guess unless someone(bishop) comes out and straight ups asks him, he will live this “lie”. I almost want to ask if he wants to leave the church so he can drink.....maybe I’m asking for myself?   I did ask if he still had a testimony and he said he did, ...but then how can he drink?   I feel like a 2 yr old, I just don’t get it?  I guess I have lying issues?

youre both right in that I need to be a safe place for him.  I am trying:  we both have specific instances(down to the day) that the other has wronged us and we still harbor resentment towards each other . I don’t know how to move along/get over it with out outside help....ie a 3rd party POV.   Yet, we are still dealing with the troubled son....so our marriage gets out in the back burner.  Yes, it is wrong.   Maybe I do need to see someone myself?  I just don’t know.  I just want to go to bed and stay there until this all goes away.  My eyes are sore daily from all the tears.

We have cut back other activities because things just got too crazy.  Each kid can do one outside activity.  So really only 3 kids doing stuff (one in college, other son...trouble...).  

 

Thank you you again for being so direct and honest.   I am at such a loss and have no one to talk to about any of this.  Thank you

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Just something to think about, what's wrong with being judgmental here?  We mormons read our scriptures on the subject and half of them say "thou shalt not judge" and the other half say "thou shalt judge".  It's confusing.

I recommend this talk from Elder Oaks on the subject.  It really helps us sift through issues like our responsibility to righteously judge and our duty to not judge.  It sure applies here.

https://www.lds.org/ensign/1999/08/judge-not-and-judging?lang=eng&query=

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Sorry for your troubles. Honestly, I'd be quite bugged if he were spending money on booz when I had to go back to work for financial reasons. That said, I suggest supporting him by making sure he has time for something that is a better way to cope (ie running, basketball with the guys, etc). That's all I got right now but will chime in if something else comes to mind.

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17 minutes ago, Flockling7 said:

Maybe I do need to see someone myself?  

This is a wise course of action.  I suggest tell your husband you'd like to go to counseling together but if he's not good with that then you want to go by yourself.

About the Church - your husband needs to go and ask the bishop to help him get back to the strait and narrow path.  But he'll have to be the one to seek it.  You can encourage him to go talk to the bishop.  He eventually will have to for temple recommend interview - encourage him to at least get that accomplished.  The Church is where joy can be found.  Leaving the church so you can drink alcohol gives you pleasure only for a day and then the consequences of that action eventually comes to bite you.  You need to bring your family back to God.  One inch by one inch if that's the most you can do at a time.

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He obviously has a problem and no it's not okay to occasionally drink for any reason.  The good news is that it sounds like it's very limited but the bad news is it could become so much worse.

It's interesting because we as latter day saints look at word of wisdom as almost the black death - most active members don't have this issue.  However, porn seems to get a pass.  I would say pornography is far more damaging.  One difference is that to break the word of wisdom one has to go to pretty great lengths - it's pretty rare to accidentally drink alcohol and you never find it in your pocket, in your bedroom or living room by accident either.

He is going to have to realize that he first of all has a problem.  If he has been bringing it into the home then it probably goes further than just ocassional drinking when he can't sleep or is stressed - it's probably more serious if he has gone this far (that's my guess).

He should see his bishop - but you can't force him.

I would suggest that you keep on loving him and seek the Lord in prayer on what to do.  Also, never be okay with what he is doing as it will just enable him but also don't let this become the wedge that ruins your marriage.  

I wish you the best in this. 

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36 minutes ago, Flockling7 said:

Thank you so much for your responses.

i don’t feel like I’m judging him reguarding the hypocrisy, just that I feel so incredibly guilty seeing him serve knowing what I know. (Is that judging?)  I have told him in the past that I was fine with his drinking, still am, just to be honest about it.  I guess unless someone(bishop) comes out and straight ups asks him, he will live this “lie”. I almost want to ask if he wants to leave the church so he can drink.....maybe I’m asking for myself?   I did ask if he still had a testimony and he said he did, ...but then how can he drink?   I feel like a 2 yr old, I just don’t get it?  I guess I have lying issues?

youre both right in that I need to be a safe place for him.  I am trying:  we both have specific instances(down to the day) that the other has wronged us and we still harbor resentment towards each other . I don’t know how to move along/get over it with out outside help....ie a 3rd party POV.   Yet, we are still dealing with the troubled son....so our marriage gets out in the back burner.  Yes, it is wrong.   Maybe I do need to see someone myself?  I just don’t know.  I just want to go to bed and stay there until this all goes away.  My eyes are sore daily from all the tears.

We have cut back other activities because things just got too crazy.  Each kid can do one outside activity.  So really only 3 kids doing stuff (one in college, other son...trouble...).  

 

Thank you you again for being so direct and honest.   I am at such a loss and have no one to talk to about any of this.  Thank you

I think some good advice has been given.  Some thoughts in addition:

1.  Be careful about shaming your husband.  This advice comes from spouses dealing with pornography issues, but I think it also applies to alcohol use as well.  Often, shaming a spouse actually results in pushing the spouse towards a destructive activity, such as alcohol, because they wish to escape the feelings of shame.  Moreover, you don't want your marriage to start to become more like a mother/son relationship - nothing kills openness, intimacy and trust more than when one spouse takes on a parent role and the other a child role.

2.  Keep reducing stress so you can make your marriage number one.  While reducing activities to only "one" per child is a good start, perhaps it would be smart to take this even further and declare a one-year moratorium on extracurricular stuff.  Kids are way, way overscheduled these days anyways.

3.  I don't know what kind of trouble your son is in to actually need a lawyer, but perhaps instead of working to get him a lawyer, you can make him pay for it (or at least most of it)?  Perhaps he has a car he could sell for legal fees?  I think your son would stop causing trouble and would learn some responsibility if he had to work for a year to pay $10,000 in lawyer bills.  He is 18, he is an adult, and this is a crisis he made, so he should bear the majority of the responsibility, rather than letting you sacrifice your time and sanity.

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2 minutes ago, DoctorLemon said:

3.  I don't know what kind of trouble your son is in to actually need a lawyer, but perhaps instead of working to get him a lawyer, you can make him pay for it (or at least most of it)?  Perhaps he has a car he could sell for legal fees?  I think your son would stop causing trouble and would learn some responsibility if he had to work for a year to pay $10,000 in lawyer bills.  He is 18, he is an adult, and this is a crisis he made, so he should bear the majority of the responsibility, rather than letting you sacrifice your time and sanity.

Amen.

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4 minutes ago, DoctorLemon said:

I think some good advice has been given.  Some thoughts in addition:

1.  Be careful about shaming your husband.  This advice comes from spouses dealing with pornography issues, but I think it also applies to alcohol use as well.  Often, shaming a spouse actually results in pushing the spouse towards a destructive activity, such as alcohol, because they wish to escape the feelings of shame.  Moreover, you don't want your marriage to start to become more like a mother/son relationship - nothing kills openness, intimacy and trust more than when one spouse takes on a parent role and the other a child role.

2.  Keep reducing stress so you can make your marriage number one.  While reducing activities to only "one" per child is a good start, perhaps it would be smart to take this even further and declare a one-year moratorium on extracurricular stuff.  Kids are way, way overscheduled these days anyways.

3.  I don't know what kind of trouble your son is in to actually need a lawyer, but perhaps instead of working to get him a lawyer, you can make him pay for it (or at least most of it)?  Perhaps he has a car he could sell for legal fees?  I think your son would stop causing trouble and would learn some responsibility if he had to work for a year to pay $10,000 in lawyer bills.  He is 18, he is an adult, and this is a crisis he made, so he should bear the majority of the responsibility, rather than letting you sacrifice your time and sanity.

Perfect post. Simply perfect. 

 

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I like much of the other responses. A couple things I would add

1 hour ago, Flockling7 said:

I feel so incredibly guilty seeing him serve knowing what I know. (Is that judging?)

It is hard for me to tell from this side of the internet exactly what this means. I don't know if it is judging, but I wonder about you feeling "incredibly guilty" for his sin. Your his wife; you can't exactly be completely indifferent to his sin, but, at the same time, I don't think you should be feeling "incredibly" guilty, either. I don't know for sure exactly where you are at,, but it seems that a wife should be somewhere in between "incredibly guilty for" and "completely indifferent towards" a husband's sins. Consider reflecting a bit on exactly what you mean here and whether you are trying to bear more of his sin than is your place to bear.

 

1 hour ago, Flockling7 said:

we both have specific instances(down to the day) that the other has wronged us and we still harbor resentment towards each other

Your question to us here focused on his drinking. How much of his drinking (and some of the other surface difficulties that have been mentioned) are proxies for these deeper injuries that you have both sustained. Another little thought to consider that, perhaps, these things mentioned here don't really resolve themselves fully until you (both of you) address these apparently deeper injuries. Perhaps another reason to visit with a counselor (together if possible, alone if necessary) would be to visit some of these injuries and attempt to heal them as best you can.

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Thank you

 

i agree that this deeper issue needs to be resolved, preferably ASAP.  He just says we try, it gets better, then worse again and he doesn’t know if he can do that cycle again.  It’s too painful.  So yes, I think I will need to seek counseling alone.  And not to play the blame game, I own my part of the problems as well.

 

as for my son.....not to get too detailed here but the lawyers were to protect my husband and I, and my other kids.  I don’t pay anything for him, no phone, nothing.  He doesn’t have a car or even a drivers license because I won’t insure him.  By law, in Tx, as of 2 yrs ago, parents are responsible for their kids education until they are 19 or graduate HS.  So we got him in an alternative public school so he could graduate a semester early.  So after the 20th of this month I’m done.  I told him he has a week to find a new home.  Yes, I hope that will help with some stress.

sorry, new question....,do I tell him I found the liquor?  If so, do I let him decide if he wants to keep it or not?

thanks again

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28 minutes ago, MrShorty said:

I don't know if it is judging, but I wonder about you feeling "incredibly guilty" for his sin.

It's not his sin she feels guilty for, it's watching him serve in ways in which only worthy men should serve while knowing that he is not keeping his covenants.

I think there are two key things to consider here:

1) She knows he is not keeping his covenants which require him to obey the WoW.

2) I'm not sure she's the one who can say he's not worthy to serve.  It may depend on the type of service, or it may be entirely in the hands of the bishop or stake president to make that decision.

Were I in her shoes, I would have a very difficult time deciding the right approach, and I may well make the choice to go see the bishop, even if I didn't reveal what my husband was doing, I might reveal that I feel he is breaking covenants and needs help to overcome the trials which are leading him to do so.  Of course, I would only do that after much prayer and probably some fasting.

Oddly enough, if this were a work situation, and I knew an employee were behaving in an unethical way, I'd have no trouble speaking to the relevant folks about it.  Perhaps because in an employment situation, it's about protecting the company, its customers, and (in my case) the end users (patients) of medical devices.  If I were to extrapolate that back to family, would this help my husband?  Would it protect him?  Would it protect our family?  That's something only the Lord can answer - he knows what will be best for all.

Edited by zil
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3 minutes ago, Flockling7 said:

sorry, new question....,do I tell him I found the liquor?  If so, do I let him decide if he wants to keep it or not?

Satan likes us to hide things and keep secrets.  God would have us step into a light which reveals all.

Were it me (and this is me, and I'm a hard person), I would, well, actually, I'd tell him no alcohol in my house and that might make it worse, but assuming I wouldn't do that, I would tell him if he's gonna do it, I want it out in the open, not in secret - sins done in secret lead to worse things.  Sins dragged into the light lead either to repentance or rebellion.

Hard call.  Pray.  Fast.  Forgive.  Repent.  Fast.  Pray.  You really need the Lord's guidance here!

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Might I suggest Al-Anon? Different from Alcoholics Anonymous, Al-Anon is specifically for family members of people who have a drinking problem. So, this would be something for you, not him. The people in your local group may be able to help you deal with his deceptions and may help you put his habits into a different perspective. (Note: this is not an LDS based group, but it did wonders for a college friend and her mom while my friend was in high school and her dad was a recovering alcoholic.)

In the meantime, I suggest neither condemning nor condoning his drinking habits. I'm a passive aggressive person, so I would probably take any alcohol I find hidden and put it on the top shelf of a kitchen cupboard or similar place, where it's not hidden or on display. I would also probably put additional inspirational quotes and scriptures around. Nothing too bold, just an extra picture of a temple or a "through Christ I can do all things" magnet on the fridge. Things that can help you, him, and your children (in that order) deal with the havoc your 18 year old is wreaking. 

Edited by seashmore
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On 12/15/2017 at 11:56 AM, Flockling7 said:

I almost want to ask if he wants to leave the church so he can drink.....maybe I’m asking for myself?   I did ask if he still had a testimony and he said he did, ...but then how can he drink?   I feel like a 2 yr old, I just don’t get it?  I guess I have lying issues?

People don't leave the Church so they can lie to the boss about why they're running late, buy a lottery ticket or fudge the specs of a product to a potential customer.  Unless he's too hung over Sunday mornings, leaving to drink doesn't make a lot of sense.

As to the other, haven't you sinned at all lately?  How can you do such a thing with a testimony?

Quote

youre both right in that I need to be a safe place for him.  I am trying:  we both have specific instances(down to the day) that the other has wronged us and we still harbor resentment towards each other . I don’t know how to move along/get over it with out outside help....ie a 3rd party POV.

Try a YouTube search for "hypnosis anger"  You should find at least a session from Steve G Jones.  I'm not a fan of Jones personally; his voice and diction make me want to beat him with a shovel, which is unlikely to be helpful for anger management, but his scripts that I've seen are fairly logically sound.  I know there are better ones out there, but I can't recall the names right now.  (Of course, the biggest benefit of recorded sessions is that you can always consciously ignore the induction and any "deepeners" to listen to the whole script and make sure there's nothing objectionable before you start it again and let it work.  OTOH, some people will need the versatility of an in-person induction to actually respond to hypnosis at all.  Either way, it costs nothing to test out the free ones on YouTube.)  You can also use keepvid.com to download an MP3 of the audio from any YT video, so you can listen to it offline.

On 12/15/2017 at 12:19 PM, my two cents said:

Sorry for your troubles. Honestly, I'd be quite bugged if he were spending money on booz when I had to go back to work for financial reasons.

Unless he's staying Otis-Campbell-stumbling-drunk on a regular basis, sucking down $200 bottles of Glenlivet 21 year weekly, going to bars or buying the little airline singles, I seriously doubt he's spending more than $30-60 a month.  Most people spend more on soda.  If he's buying the singles for ease of hiding, then getting a fifth once a month would make it easier to keep track of the amount he's drinking, as well as cutting the overall price by 100-250%.

On 12/15/2017 at 1:22 PM, MrShorty said:

Your question to us here focused on his drinking. How much of his drinking (and some of the other surface difficulties that have been mentioned) are proxies for these deeper injuries that you have both sustained.

This, and attacking the symptom without addressing the cause is likely to cause more problems.

On 12/15/2017 at 1:49 PM, zil said:

I'd tell him no alcohol in my house

And I'd tell you that's a fine rule for your house as soon as the divorce court decides who gets to keep the house.  Trying to fix a relationship through ultimatums makes about as much sense as fixing your teeth by chewing on ball bearings.

4 hours ago, seashmore said:

In the meantime, I suggest neither condemning nor condoning his drinking habits. I'm a passive aggressive person, so I would probably take any alcohol I find hidden and put it on the top shelf of a kitchen cupboard or similar place, where it's not hidden or on display.

Better, since some was found in the kid's room, would be a safe, lockbox or lockable cabinet or closet that the kids don't have access to.

Edited by NightSG
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