This is why people leave

[dahlia]

So, my name (misspelled) showed up in the bulletin for the 3rd time to help clean the church. I did it the first time, but not the 2nd. As it turns out, the brother in charge of cleaning schedules was standing in the foyer. To be polite, I told him I wasn't going to come. He asked me, "Can you explain?"  What? OK, fine. I did it once. That's my commitment. I have to take an arthritis med before and after I do that assignment and I just don't feel like bringing on pain in order to clean the church. 

I walk toward the door, and I'm so hot I turn around and go back. "I've already done it once, "I repeated. Then he says he's done it four times. I am supposed to be shamed into compliance? Did he expect me just to roll over and say I'll show up? I'm 64. I don't need to explain myself to some white man about why I do or don't do something. 

No one told me I'd have to be a maid to the Church when I joined. And people wonder why folks become less active.

 

[askandanswer]

The age and arthritis might be a good reason not to assist with cleaning the chapel but I don't think they would be a good reason to leave the church.

[Guest MormonGator]

I'm so sorry that happened to you @dahlia. That was so rude of him! 

[NeedleinA]

51 minutes ago, dahlia said:

I don't need to explain myself to some white man about why I do or don't do something.

True you don't. You simply say, "Please remove my name from the cleaning roster as I won't be able to serve in that capacity again".
Then move on and serve in some other way that better suits you physically.

Leave the church over this, um...

 

Edited December 17, 2017 by NeedleinA

[NeedleinA]

1 hour ago, dahlia said:

No one told me I'd have to be a maid to the Church when I joined.

All depends on when you joined the Church I suppose. This latest wave of helping maintain the Meetinghouses ("maid" jobs) is relatively new, a couple years old.
Rewind a couple years earlier and we may have been asked to actually 'build' the meetinghouse let alone simply clean it.

"Service and sacrifice help us gain a testimony of holy things."

Edited December 17, 2017 by NeedleinA

[Sunday21]

1 hour ago, dahlia said:

So, my name (misspelled) showed up in the bulletin for the 3rd time to help clean the church. I did it the first time, but not the 2nd. As it turns out, the brother in charge of cleaning schedules was standing in the foyer. To be polite, I told him I wasn't going to come. He asked me, "Can you explain?"  What? OK, fine. I did it once. That's my commitment. I have to take an arthritis med before and after I do that assignment and I just don't feel like bringing on pain in order to clean the church. 

I walk toward the door, and I'm so hot I turn around and go back. "I've already done it once, "I repeated. Then he says he's done it four times. I am supposed to be shamed into compliance? Did he expect me just to roll over and say I'll show up? I'm 64. I don't need to explain myself to some white man about why I do or don't do something. 

No one told me I'd have to be a maid to the Church when I joined. And people wonder why folks become less active.

 

Hey @dahlia! Sorry this happened! I declined cleaning due to rampant tendinitis. Bear in mind, you have many iq points on most of the world. Be kind. You process info faster. Imagine living in a world where you don’t process info as quickly. Where things keep happening and you don’t understand why. Be merciful!

[Guest]

1 hour ago, dahlia said:

So, my name (misspelled) showed up in the bulletin for the 3rd time to help clean the church. I did it the first time, but not the 2nd. As it turns out, the brother in charge of cleaning schedules was standing in the foyer. To be polite, I told him I wasn't going to come. He asked me, "Can you explain?"  What? OK, fine. I did it once. That's my commitment. I have to take an arthritis med before and after I do that assignment and I just don't feel like bringing on pain in order to clean the church. 

I walk toward the door, and I'm so hot I turn around and go back. "I've already done it once, "I repeated. Then he says he's done it four times. I am supposed to be shamed into compliance? Did he expect me just to roll over and say I'll show up? I'm 64. I don't need to explain myself to some white man about why I do or don't do something. 

No one told me I'd have to be a maid to the Church when I joined. And people wonder why folks become less active.

 

I am sorry this happened to you.

The thing about the Church, we proclaim the gospel to everyone, and we get all kinds of people who become members, including those with zero social skills. 

I remember right out of law school, I was unable to find employment for several months.  I was sitting alone in Elders' Quorum, minding my own business, when this one guy comes and sits down next to me and "welcomes me to the ward" (I had been active in the ward for approximately six years at this point, five years longer than he had been around, and he had "welcomed me" two other times before).  He starts asking me all of these intrusive questions about my career.  I told him I was out of law school and in the job market.  He said, "Well, I thought about going to law school and I have the qualifications such that I could have gotten into any law school I wanted, but I saw there were no jobs in that field and I didn't want to doom myself to perpetual unemployment by getting a law degree, so I got an MBA and now I am making six figures."  I was shocked - you don't say such things to someone who is going through unemployment!  You just don't.  Had my thoughts been more together, I would have asked him if he wanted a medal for his model life choices.

Point of the story - there are some members who have such bad social skills that it seems their purpose is to hang around and drive everyone else inactive.  Unfortunately, since the gospel is supposed to be for everyone, we have to put up with such people now and then (and by "put up", I mean "ignore").  Hey, we occasionally get such people on this forum, who seem to just want to fight with everyone! 

About the best thing to be done is to ignore such people and/or feel sorry for them (imagine being that guy and offending people wherever he goes!)  Perhaps the reason the guy is "building cleaning coordinator" and not the bishop is damage control, a place where he can be his unrefined self without driving too many people inactive?  

Edited December 17, 2017 by DoctorLemon

[zil]

There are low-impact things one can do when cleaning the church (wiping the chalk dust from the tray at the bottom of the chalk board, erasing left-over text from chalk boards / dry-erase boards, etc.) and one can do them as slowly as one chooses.  If even these are too much, one can request to be removed, and this is doing a favor for the person in charge of coordinating (and your fellow ward members) because then they don't put you on the list expecting one more person to show up only to be a person short during that week.

My understanding is that the wards who share the building rotate, so, 3 wards means you do it once / quarter, 2 wards means every other month, etc.

Those who live close enough to a temple are also assigned nights (late nights) to help clean the temple.

Just some FYIs about cleaning assignments.  (These and welfare assignments are extremely hard to fill.)

Edited December 17, 2017 by zil

[Grunt]

The church doesn't clean itself, regardless of the color of its skin.

 

[dahlia]

2 hours ago, zil said:

There are low-impact things one can do when cleaning the church (wiping the chalk dust from the tray at the bottom of the chalk board, erasing left-over text from chalk boards / dry-erase boards, etc.) and one can do them as slowly as one chooses.  If even these are too much, one can request to be removed, and this is doing a favor for the person in charge of coordinating (and your fellow ward members) because then they don't put you on the list expecting one more person to show up only to be a person short during that week.

My understanding is that the wards who share the building rotate, so, 3 wards means you do it once / quarter, 2 wards means every other month, etc.

Those who live close enough to a temple are also assigned nights (late nights) to help clean the temple.

Just some FYIs about cleaning assignments.  (These and welfare assignments are extremely hard to fill.)

I have done this twice before and after 5-6 years in the ward, don't recall ever being asked more than once to do it. Now it's not only 3x, but 3x w/n 5 months! Enough already!  And I already do what I can do. The repetitive motion stuff like vacuuming is out; I do the dusting, but it is repetitive enough, given the amount of space to cover. We have a young ward with many families with multiple kids. They come through and have multiple people working on the family's 1 task while I have to do all of my work myself. I've had it. 

[dahlia]

3 hours ago, DoctorLemon said:

I am sorry this happened to you.

The thing about the Church, we proclaim the gospel to everyone, and we get all kinds of people who become members, including those with zero social skills. 

I remember right out of law school, I was unable to find employment for several months.  I was sitting alone in Elders' Quorum, minding my own business, when this one guy comes and sits down next to me and "welcomes me to the ward" (I had been active in the ward for approximately six years at this point, five years longer than he had been around, and he had "welcomed me" two other times before).  He starts asking me all of these intrusive questions about my career.  I told him I was out of law school and in the job market.  He said, "Well, I thought about going to law school and I have the qualifications such that I could have gotten into any law school I wanted, but I saw there were no jobs in that field and I didn't want to doom myself to perpetual unemployment by getting a law degree, so I got an MBA and now I am making six figures."  I was shocked - you don't say such things to someone who is going through unemployment!  You just don't.  Had my thoughts been more together, I would have asked him if he wanted a medal for his model life choices.

Point of the story - there are some members who have such bad social skills that it seems their purpose is to hang around and drive everyone else inactive.  Unfortunately, since the gospel is supposed to be for everyone, we have to put up with such people now and then (and by "put up", I mean "ignore").  Hey, we occasionally get such people on this forum, who seem to just want to fight with everyone! 

About the best thing to be done is to ignore such people and/or feel sorry for them (imagine being that guy and offending people wherever he goes!)  Perhaps the reason the guy is "building cleaning coordinator" and not the bishop is damage control, a place where he can be his unrefined self without driving too many people inactive?  

This is why you just let people tell you what they have to say and move on. He had no right to ask me to explain myself. BTW - I'm a lapsed lawyer (changed careers). I reallllly know enough not to ask if someone has passed the bar or gotten a job 'yet.'  I think some people were raised in barns. 

[dahlia]

4 hours ago, changed said:

how to be more civil and humble (by your own beautiful example   

I will try to be civil when I see this brother next. Humble may take more effort than I am willing to give. 

I hate to go down this path, but when stuff like this happens, I have to ask myself, "Would he ask a man this? Would he ask a white man this? Why are you asking me these questions?" Not everything is gender or race related, but then a lot is and sometimes you have to call people on their garbage.

My stepfather was a litigator. One day he won an especially large settlement and the judge actually asked him, "What are you going to do with all that money?" Wha????  White litigators pull in big money all the time, but no one asks them what they going to do with their fee.  Yeah, you have to be watchful, because people can get up to all kinds of shenanigans. 

[Guest MormonGator]

The truth is that how we treat people matters. It's something all of us should remember. If we want people to remain active, we need to treat them well. Yes the church is full of imperfect humans (like any other church) and yes, you shouldn't leave because someone offended you or treated you poorly-but it's important to be on our best behavior in the church and not excuse rude or bad behavior. 

[Guest]

Different buildings will have different methods of getting the building cleaned.  In our building, a ward is assigned for one year.  Three wards in the building means we get it every three years.  

On the years we are assigned, the bishop has decided to separate the ward alphabetically by last name into four groups.  We clean once a week.  This means that our family goes to clean the building once a month.

While there are many families in the ward, it does seem that the same 6 or 7 families are going to clean each month.  Many simply don't help.  Others may make it some months and miss others.  We don't know why.  We (my family) just keeps showing up when it is our turn in the alphabet.  So, we have cleaned the building 12 times this year.  We get next year off.

[NeedleinA]

9 hours ago, dahlia said:

So, my name (misspelled) showed up in the bulletin for the 3rd time to help clean the church.

Elder Donald L. Hallstrom  Turn to the Lord

Quote

In less than 10 months, Symonds Ryder went from an eager convert to a mob leader, his spiritual decline starting with the offense taken over the misspelling of his name—by one letter. No matter the size of the issue, how we respond can reset the course of our life...

... Never let an earthly circumstance disable you spiritually.

You took offense to this brother* and it prompted you to take the time to write a thread about leaving the church.
I could easily take offense to you tossing around race ( 3 blond white women ) like you often do, but I'm not going to leave the church because of your actions.

The choice is mine, the choice is yours to be offended or not.

*I reread your comments. As the HPGL for many years I was in charge of the meetinghouse cleaning assignments. Asking a person why they can't clean would simply be helpful information to know. You took it as interrogation by a white man. Perhaps he simply needed to know "why" so he didn't put you in the same position again unknowingly. You were the one who went back to him "hot" after the fact. It is okay to look in the mirror sometimes too.

Edited December 18, 2017 by NeedleinA

[anatess2]

So, in my ward, the Teachers Quorum is assigned the task of coming up with the Cleaning Schedule.  My son was the only Teacher in our ward for almost a year.  So he had the sole responsibility of the Cleaning Schedule.  I know FOR A FACT how hard it is to come up with a Cleaning Schedule.  People decline, people don't respond, people commit but not show up... it was starting to look like we have all these awesome people in the ward yet we can only count on the same 10 people to do everything outside of regular church callings - calling on volunteers to to help with a move, set up and clean up for a ward activity, make meals for a sick member, and yes, clean the ward building too.  So, for that almost-a-year period, we ended up cleaning the ward building at least once a month because my son just couldn't find anybody else.  Sad, huh?

[dahlia]

23 hours ago, NeedleinA said:

Elder Donald L. Hallstrom  Turn to the Lord

You took offense to this brother* and it prompted you to take the time to write a thread about leaving the church.
I could easily take offense to you tossing around race ( 3 blond white women ) like you often do, but I'm not going to leave the church because of your actions.

The choice is mine, the choice is yours to be offended or not.

*I reread your comments. As the HPGL for many years I was in charge of the meetinghouse cleaning assignments. Asking a person why they can't clean would simply be helpful information to know. You took it as interrogation by a white man. Perhaps he simply needed to know "why" so he didn't put you in the same position again unknowingly. You were the one who went back to him "hot" after the fact. It is okay to look in the mirror sometimes too.

I'm not leaving  (and I had completely forgotten the story about the misspelled name. It happens so frequently to me that I wouldn't be speaking to anyone if I let it bother me.  I was just saying, I see how people leave over what seems like minor things to other people. 

I certainly see how people become less active. 

If you had heard the Brother's tone, you might have felt differently. I don't know what he does for a living or what kind of people he's used to speaking to, but he needs to get a grip. If he had said, "Is there something else you can do?" I wouldn't have taken any offense at all. That, to me, would be a logical, inclusive, kind of question. But 'explain'?  Heck no. 

[dahlia]

On 12/17/2017 at 6:45 PM, Carborendum said:

Different buildings will have different methods of getting the building cleaned.  In our building, a ward is assigned for one year.  Three wards in the building means we get it every three years.  

On the years we are assigned, the bishop has decided to separate the ward alphabetically by last name into four groups.  We clean once a week.  This means that our family goes to clean the building once a month.

While there are many families in the ward, it does seem that the same 6 or 7 families are going to clean each month.  Many simply don't help.  Others may make it some months and miss others.  We don't know why.  We (my family) just keeps showing up when it is our turn in the alphabet.  So, we have cleaned the building 12 times this year.  We get next year off.

You have a ward full of people (as opposed to a branch) and you end up cleaning once a month? Wow. That's a lot. There are names I've yet to see on the Bulletin. And yeah, I'm sure everyone has an excuse. I have mine, but at least I did my turn when asked the first time.

[Guest MormonGator]

I admire you for how you handled this  @dahlia. Lots of people (including myself) would have gotten combative or snotty. Then wouldn't go to church for weeks afterwards. 

[my two cents]

For those who aren't aware - Cleaning the building is one of the things those who've gotten help from the Church should be asked to do in return for the help they've received. You may want to inform the powers-that-be if that doesn't seem to be happening in your unit. 

Edited December 19, 2017 by my two cents

[NeuroTypical]

Sometimes you have to recite the mantra "the church is a hospital for sinners, not a museum for saints."  Sometimes you have to lock yourself in the bathroom to keep from slapping some sin out of someone.

[Guest MormonGator]

1 minute ago, my two cents said:

For those who aren't aware - Cleaning the building is one of the things those who've received help from the Church should be asked to do in return for the help they've gotten. You may want to inform the powers-that-be if that doesn't seem to be happening in your unit. 

I didn't know that. I've cleaned the warehouse many times and haven't gotten any help from the church. Maybe I should start demanding it. 

[my two cents]

1 minute ago, MormonGator said:

I didn't know that.

How Church welfare is really supposed to be handled seems to be one of the best kept secrets even though the quotes are out there for everyone to read. It's about helping people maintain a sense of dignity unlike the govt system.

[zil]

18 hours ago, MormonGator said:

I've cleaned the warehouse many times and haven't gotten any help from the church. Maybe I should start demanding it. 

@my two cents, still think it's a good idea to good idea to go stirring up discontent?  Gator may be joking, but someone else won't be.  If you have complaints about how those who have stewardship in your ward / branch are handling it, talk to them privately.  No one has any business speculating on who is / is not doing their fair share (" if that doesn't seem to be happening in your unit "), let alone who is / is not receiving welfare assistance.  Outside your ward, don't try to steady the ark.

(I get it, you must have see too much taking advantage, but that doesn't mean everyone is taking advantage.  One bishop or RSP not handling this well doesn't mean none of them do.  And regardless of how poorly they do, it should be handled privately, not by encouraging speculation without stewardship.)

Edited December 19, 2017 by zil

[Guest MormonGator]

3 minutes ago, zil said:

@my two cents, still think it's a good idea to good idea to go stirring up discontent? 

She wasn't stirring up anything. You want to stir up something? I just used one of your fountain pens to stir my tea. 

::evil laugh ::