I want to believe, but I have a big problem trying to do that.


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1 hour ago, Shath said:

I think I found my answer in this thread and another on Mormons.  I do not think some Mormons are Christian.  I think their gospel is Christian.  Telling one to go away is not Christian.  This is a bad Christmas gift to me, but if that is what it is, that is what I get.  I have every reason to hate Mormons after what they did to me.  Some are sympathetic, some here hate me I think.  I came to find answers, but some condemned me, the victim.  I think Mormons may have a problem with this.  I read about BYU and though it was a different victim blaming, they blamed victims too. 

Thank you to those who were nice in the thread and others.  Those who hated on me, thanks for chasing me away from the Mormon church.  I have found it is probably not what I am looking for.  Some Mormons are nice, but I don't think Mormons are Christian.  It is not their gospel, but how they act.  I found they misunderstand charity.  They condone discrimination and racism.  They do not look to find solutions to why minorities do not go to Mormon churches, even if Minorities have no problems with the Book of Mormon (most of those I think are White Evangelicals that lean far right).  They at best ignore the discrimination, at the middle blame the victim, and at worst are the bullies who send others like me to the hospital.  I wish my answer was different.  I thought about what you wrote for several days before deciding this.  Sadly, I think this is my last time here.  I don't know if I will keep looking or not.  Right now I think I like the Mormon gospel, but I don't like Mormons very much.  That is a problem I think.  Thank you for your help in my decision.  I thank those who were nice, and those who were not nice.  They both helped me decide.

Regarding race and the Church, it is your choice to see everything through the eyes of racism.  In the Church all are the same.  If you choose to believe that every perceived insult is because of racism, then apparently, this is not the church for you.  If you believe any white person (or any Mormon) mistreats you and you blame it on the category (being white or being a Mormon) then this may not be the church for you. 

We teach people to look past race.  When some people don't, we teach people to learn to forgive.  We don't fight racism with more racism.  We fight racism with education.  But if you can't get to that place where you're willing to be educated on what race does or does not have to do with our faith, then this may not be the church for you.

We teach people to listen to the Spirit more than we listen to man.  And if you cannot get past the actions of only a few in your life to see the millions of others who are able to treat all as brothers and sisters, then this may not be the right church for you.

If you see that this is a conservative church, then you're seeing something that is at least a fairly common trait.  But still not all.  The Book of Mormon and the Bible teach both liberal and conservative political positions of today.  But if you only believe in the Book of Mormon insofar as it supports liberal political positions and deny conservative ones, then this may not be the right church for you.

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2 hours ago, Shath said:

I think I found my answer in this thread and another on Mormons.  I do not think some Mormons are Christian.  I think their gospel is Christian.  Telling one to go away is not Christian.  This is a bad Christmas gift to me, but if that is what it is, that is what I get.  I have every reason to hate Mormons after what they did to me.  Some are sympathetic, some here hate me I think.  I came to find answers, but some condemned me, the victim.  I think Mormons may have a problem with this.  I read about BYU and though it was a different victim blaming, they blamed victims too. 

Thank you to those who were nice in the thread and others.  Those who hated on me, thanks for chasing me away from the Mormon church.  I have found it is probably not what I am looking for.  Some Mormons are nice, but I don't think Mormons are Christian.  It is not their gospel, but how they act.  I found they misunderstand charity.  They condone discrimination and racism.  They do not look to find solutions to why minorities do not go to Mormon churches, even if Minorities have no problems with the Book of Mormon (most of those I think are White Evangelicals that lean far right).  They at best ignore the discrimination, at the middle blame the victim, and at worst are the bullies who send others like me to the hospital.  I wish my answer was different.  I thought about what you wrote for several days before deciding this.  Sadly, I think this is my last time here.  I don't know if I will keep looking or not.  Right now I think I like the Mormon gospel, but I don't like Mormons very much.  That is a problem I think.  Thank you for your help in my decision.  I thank those who were nice, and those who were not nice.  They both helped me decide.

I hope as you get older you look back on your decision with fresh eyes.  In the meantime, I'll send you a prayer and hope the pain that clouds your judgment subsides and you find it in your heart to do as God desires.   Merry Christmas.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On ‎12‎/‎24‎/‎2017 at 11:56 AM, Shath said:

I think I found my answer in this thread and another on Mormons.  I do not think some Mormons are Christian.  I think their gospel is Christian.  Telling one to go away is not Christian.  This is a bad Christmas gift to me, but if that is what it is, that is what I get.  I have every reason to hate Mormons after what they did to me.  Some are sympathetic, some here hate me I think.  I came to find answers, but some condemned me, the victim.  I think Mormons may have a problem with this.  I read about BYU and though it was a different victim blaming, they blamed victims too. 

Thank you to those who were nice in the thread and others.  Those who hated on me, thanks for chasing me away from the Mormon church.  I have found it is probably not what I am looking for.  Some Mormons are nice, but I don't think Mormons are Christian.  It is not their gospel, but how they act.  I found they misunderstand charity.  They condone discrimination and racism.  They do not look to find solutions to why minorities do not go to Mormon churches, even if Minorities have no problems with the Book of Mormon (most of those I think are White Evangelicals that lean far right).  They at best ignore the discrimination, at the middle blame the victim, and at worst are the bullies who send others like me to the hospital.  I wish my answer was different.  I thought about what you wrote for several days before deciding this.  Sadly, I think this is my last time here.  I don't know if I will keep looking or not.  Right now I think I like the Mormon gospel, but I don't like Mormons very much.  That is a problem I think.  Thank you for your help in my decision.  I thank those who were nice, and those who were not nice.  They both helped me decide.

I do not know if you are still here or if you will ever see this.  I hope that you might.  I want to empathize with you.  There is no way I can ever truly relate to how you feel in regards to how minorities are treated in the LDS church, but I have seen what you have expressed.  I agree, there IS racism in the LDS church in many areas.  I am what you probably would call white, and I can see it in my own area to a degree. I agree, it can be disturbing, and bear with me with this if you are reading this, but it may be inconsequential to the bigger picture.

On another point, I can see those boys hurt you badly, physically, emotionally, and spiritually.  What they did is WRONG.  They were NOT acting like Mormons and they were not acting like they should.  The LDS church would NEVER condone actions like that.  What they did was absolutely wrong, and I am horrified to hear about it.  Nevertheless, it is NOT the first time I have heard of actions like that.  I could tell you multiple stories over the past few years of racist who just also happen to be Mormons that did some very terrible things (things that even make your incident seem like a walk in the park, things that were absolutely terrible to the point of being so horrific I blanche when thinking that this was perpetrated by those who call themselves Mormon).  I acknowledge that this goes on within Mormon communities at times.  It is inexcusable. 

This does NOT represent all Mormons though.  It also misses what I think is the more important part.

This is what I think is important...

You said that you love the Mormon gospel.  You stated that you love the Book of Mormon.  I think that is the Holy Ghost testifying to you that the Book of Mormon is true.  When you read it, do you feel this feeling.  If you do, I am betting that this is the spirit telling you the truth of the gospel.  Listen to this spirit, it is the most important thing for you in your life to this point.  This is what you desire in your life.  You can have this and a church that believes in this.

You do NOT have to go to your local ward.  You can attend any ward (that is a church group that meets in our church meetings) that you desire.  You do not have to be around the individuals that caused you so much pain and anguish.  You stated you have a friend that attends the church.  If they are a good friend, ask them why they still attend the church.  Even with all that it seems they may go through, what reasons do they have to continue going to the Church?

During the days of Jesus Christ the true church was on the earth.  This church was his church, but at the time it was run by corrupt High Priests and scholars.  The Lord held true to the gospel.  He was considered a Jew, and obeyed the Jewish gospel and deferred to Jewish authority.  He pointed out the problems that they did multiple times when they challenged his teachings in the New  Testament, but he always followed the Jewish faith while during his mortal ministry.  It was the true religion and true gospel at that time.  It was only AFTER he had fulfilled the Law that his apostles established new churches (the seven churches I believe) around Israel and elsewhere.  it was after his sacrifice that the law was fulfilled and a New covenant was made.  In this, the higher law or new laws were seen to be obeyed rather than the old law of Moses.  He sent his apostles to find his sheep and save them.

The same applies today.  If you know the Book of Mormon is true, you know that Joseph Smith was a prophet.  If you know he was a prophet, you KNOW the church is the true church.  Just like in the Lord's mortal ministry, this does NOT mean the church, it's leaders, or those within the church are perfect.  It means it is the vessel in which the gospel is carried and the ordinances which pertain to our salvation are given.  In that, it is the true church on this earth.  Just like the Lord, if you know it is true, you should be baptized and join in the church.  It does not matter the persecution or other things, even from those within the church itself.  If the church is true, then what they do is inconsequential to the big picture of things.  If what they do is wrong (just like what the Pharisees did was wrong in the Lord's mortal ministry, and what the church leaders did the the Lord in his crucifixion was also wrong of them to do), then stick to the gospel.  Obtain the ordinances and follow the Lord's example.

I know this is the true church. I know the gospel is true.  I know the Book of Mormon is true.  Even if the persecutions came from within the church, even if I were tossed out or beat upon or suffered loss, the gospel is true.  It's principles will bring you to the Lord, and it's ordinances are divinely given.  I urge you and any others who may read this that have received a testimony of the Book of Mormon, that know that the Book of Mormon is true to be baptized and be members of the church.  Stand strong in your faith, no matter what obstacles are tossed at you from outside the LDS church, as well as within, and the Lord will bless you in his own due time.  I know we will receive blessings of the Lord if we follow his commandments (one of which is to be baptized) and follow his example.  Even if we are among the poorest and most despised in this life (and we know those are who the Lord went to in his mortal ministry and in many instances praised these poor, disabled, or despised individuals above those who were church leaders, Jewish leaders, or those in high standing whether political or economical), we may be among those who are of the greatest blessed in the hereafter if we stand firm in the faith of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, obey his commandments, and endure to the end.

I don't know if you will read this, but if you do, I urge you to give the church another chance, talk to the missionaries, and be baptized.  This IS the church for you, even with all it's faults and problems.  We NEED more people like you that can help us change our own attitudes and ideas.  Instead of looking at us as others, look at us like your brothers and sisters and help us to find a way to better understand you and those who you feel we could do better in our own empathy and understanding.

Once again, I know this gospel is true.  Just like you, I love the Book of Mormon.  I know it is the word of God.  I hope all those who have this testimony join with me in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latterday Saints and follow the teachings of our Lord and Savior. 

Edited by JohnsonJones
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  • 4 weeks later...

I am very sorry that you had the misfortune of meeting so many people who are are not living up to the standards that the Book of Mormon, the Bible, and our church leadership strongly admonish us to adhere to. What you described never should have happened. 

I suspect your friend continues to attend church because he knows this is true and hopes that his example will encourage others to reach for their higher calling and,as we are told in Proverbs 25:21-22, to heap burning coals on their head.  

Christ calls us to follow Him, despite our present circumstances, despite the poor examples around us. That is why we point people to Christ. Not the prophet, not the 12 or 70, but to Christ, the savior of our souls. 

Dont let these people come between you and your relationship with Christ. 

Remember what we are told in Matthew 7:22 - Many shall come on that day saying “Lord, lord,” but he will say, “Depart from me, for I never knew you.” (I paraphrased)  Not everyone claiming to be His actually are (parable wolves in sheep’s clothing).

Also, there are remedies to this situation.  Try talking with the bishop. If he is part of the problem talk with the stake president and so on up the chain. 

God bless you. You are in my prayers!

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