1 Nephi, Chapter 8

[serapha]

2 And it came to pass that while my father tarried in the wilderness he spake unto us, saying: Behold, I have dreamed a dream; or, in other words, I have seen a vision.

"... your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:" (Joel 2:28) Could someone define dream and vision, as I have the understanding that they are two entirely different words.

5 And it came to pass that I saw a man, and he was dressed in a white robe; and he came and stood before me.

Any ideas on who the spirit guide is?

10 And it came to pass that I beheld a tree, whose fruit was desirable to make one happy.

11 And it came to pass that I did go forth and partake of the fruit thereof; and I beheld that it was most sweet, above all that I ever before tasted. Yea, and I beheld that the fruit thereof was white, to exceed all the whiteness that I had ever seen.

Considering that as soon as Adam and Eve ate of the tree of knowledge, God sent them from the Garden of Eden. Had Adam and Eve eaten of the tree of life within the garden, then their eternal fate would have been sealed in a state of sin, without the possibility of redemption. Lehi doesn't receive the knowledge as from the tree of knowledge , and the tree of life doesn't appear to be symbolic of eternal life as in the Genesis account.

Many comparisons have been made concerning the tree of life... no two have the same interpretation that I have read. Most ancient civilizations had a version of the "tree of life" though all the civilizations had different interpretations.

So what is the "right" interpretation?

20 And I also beheld a strait and narrow path, which came along by the rod of iron, even to the tree by which I stood; and it also led by the head of the fountain, unto a large and spacious field, as if it had been a world.

The rod of iron is the word of God, right? so, specifically, what is "the Word of God" to be understood to be? The written word, the traditional word, the revealed word, the restored word, the words of a living prophet?

23 And it came to pass that there arose a mist of darkness; yea, even an exceedingly great mist of darkness, insomuch that they who had commenced in the path did lose their way, that they wandered off and were lost.

Why does God allow the people who were trying to make the journey to be lost?

24 And it came to pass that I beheld others pressing forward, and they came forth and caught hold of the end of the rod of iron; and they did press forward through the mist of darkness, clinging to the rod of iron, even until they did come forth and partake of the fruit of the tree.

So, if one has not heard the "word" and "caught hold" of the "word", then they will be lost? What about the invisibible qualities of God in Romans 1 and 2?

27 And it was filled with people, both old and young, both male and female; and their manner of dress was exceedingly fine; and they were in the attitude of mocking and pointing their fingers towards those who had come at and were partaking of the fruit.

Persecution? And who are the "young and old?" Certainly "young" it not understood to be the innocence of youth?

38 And after he had preached unto them, and also prophesied unto them of many things, he bade them to keep the commandments of the Lord; and he did cease speaking unto them.

Meaning? Did Lehi cease to try and reach his sons for the Lord?

Joseph Smith Sr. had a similar visions as he was a "visionary man" also... Was Joseph Smith Sr being selected to tell the story as "Lehi" and Joseph Smith Jr. to tell the story as "Nephi?"

~serapha~

[AFDaw]

Originally posted by serapha@Apr 7 2004, 08:18 PM

2 And it came to pass that while my father tarried in the wilderness he spake unto us, saying: Behold, I have dreamed a dream; or, in other words, I have seen a vision.

"... your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:" (Joel 2:28)  Could someone define dream and vision, as I have the understanding that they are two entirely different words.

I believe (I could be wrong) that a dream is a way of God communication with people, it doesn't necessarily have to be a vision. In Lehi's case, he received visions in his dreams.

5 And it came to pass that I saw a man, and he was dressed in a white robe; and he came and stood before me.

Any ideas on who the spirit guide is?

My guess would be a messanger of God

10 And it came to pass that I beheld a tree, whose fruit was desirable to make one happy.

11 And it came to pass that I did go forth and partake of the fruit thereof; and I beheld that it was most sweet, above all that I ever before tasted. Yea, and I beheld that the fruit thereof was white, to exceed all the whiteness that I had ever seen.

Considering that as soon as Adam and Eve ate of the tree of knowledge, God sent them from the Garden of Eden.  Had Adam and Eve eaten of the tree of life within the garden, then their eternal fate would have been sealed in a state of sin, without the possibility of redemption.  Lehi doesn't receive the knowledge as from the tree of knowledge , and the tree of life doesn't appear to be symbolic of eternal life as in the Genesis account.

Many comparisons have been made concerning the tree of life... no two have the same interpretation that I have read.  Most ancient civilizations had a version of the "tree of life" though all the civilizations had different interpretations.

So what is the "right" interpretation? 

I'm not sure I follow exactly what you're asking. In Lehi's dream, the tree of life represents the love of God.

20 And I also beheld a strait and narrow path, which came along by the rod of iron, even to the tree by which I stood; and it also led by the head of the fountain, unto a large and spacious field, as if it had been a world.

The rod of iron is the word of God, right?  so, specifically, what is "the Word of God" to be understood to be?  The written word, the traditional word, the revealed word, the restored word, the words of a living prophet? 

Yes, the Iron Rod is the word of God.

"According to the vision, the only way to reach the tree and become a permanent partaker of the fruit was to ‘continually [hold] fast’ to the iron rod (1 Ne 8:30). What was the rod of iron? Nephi defined it as the ‘word of God’—the words of the living prophets and the scriptures which point people to Christ. Nephi further stated that those who hearkened and held fast to the word of God would never perish (See 1 Ne 15:24)…Holding fast to the iron rod builds faith in Christ and his work…." - Merrill J. Bateman

23 And it came to pass that there arose a mist of darkness; yea, even an exceedingly great mist of darkness, insomuch that they who had commenced in the path did lose their way, that they wandered off and were lost.

Why does God allow the people who were trying to make the journey to be lost?

We are given free agency. We all have the right to make our own choices and live with our own consequences. He allows it because he loves us enough to give us this right.

24 And it came to pass that I beheld others pressing forward, and they came forth and caught hold of the end of the rod of iron; and they did press forward through the mist of darkness, clinging to the rod of iron, even until they did come forth and partake of the fruit of the tree.

So, if one has not heard the "word" and "caught hold" of the "word", then they will be lost?  What about the invisibible qualities of God in Romans 1 and 2?

No, we do not believe those who have not heard will be lost. We believe all will have a chance to hear the Gospel.

color=blue]27 And it was filled with people, both old and young, both male and female; and their manner of dress was exceedingly fine; and they were in the attitude of mocking and pointing their fingers towards those who had come at and were partaking of the fruit.

Persecution?  And who are the "young and old?" Certainly "young"  it not understood to be the innocence of youth?

I think it just refers to all walks of life. Young could simply mean 20, old could mean 80.

38 And after he had preached unto them, and also prophesied unto them of many things, he bade them to keep the commandments of the Lord; and he did cease speaking unto them.

Meaning?  Did Lehi cease to try and reach his sons for the Lord?

I don't think Lehi gives up on his sons, yet he knows that they will not keep the commandments. After the vision he gives them a long speech (at least that's the way I see it) and he tries to get them to because he doesn't want to accept their fate. He still desires for them to listen to the Lord. I think the "he did cease speaking unto them" is just simply saying "After he was finished, he quit talking." I don't think there's any special meaning.

Joseph Smith Sr.  had a similar visions as he was a "visionary man" also...    Was Joseph Smith Sr being selected to tell the story as "Lehi" and Joseph Smith Jr. to tell the story as "Nephi?" 

I don't think so.